Gereorth Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Close this, it will not produce anything useful. The only thing it will produce is facts of what is, what it not is and lot's of biased opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psandak Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 I'll tell you why.. because just copy pasting WoW, RIFT or whatever other's Code into TOR will simply not work. Just because the concept is readilly available, doesn't mean the technology is. Each game has their own challenges in making this work. What was given, was the quick, easy improvement to make a step forward in allowing respeccing to be easier. To make the system you and everyone else wants you need a lot of work. Especially if you want to make it as feature rich as some of the others. Let me explain by making a simple list of the main features they'll need to add to give you what you want: - Functionality to change skill tree set up to a predetermined set - Functionality to have action bar setups change with each spec, including keybinds if applicable - Functionality to be able to make a predetermined set of gear you can equip on the spot (probably with also remembering Unfiy Color set up) - Functionality to change and maintain each predetermined set of skill trees, action bars and gear sets - New interface elements and menus to support all these new functionalities. This is just off the top of my head to make an industry standard Dual Spec system you expect from them. This is a lot of extra Coding work they need to do to make that work and deliver it as bug free as possible. What they did now was: - Make the respec system that was already in game available through more means than one NPC in each faction's fleet. You may call it half-assed. I call it the quick 'fix'. It didn't need any new interface elements, it didn't need any new systems or a lot of Testing effort to deliver it as bug free as possible. It was a step forward, but not the be-all end-all of this problem. The issue here is, and the line I quoted made that perfectly clear, that you have no idea how much effort it takes to make a good Dual spec system into the game. I am sure their UI guys are working on it and have it on their to-do list. But first they worked on other aspects like being able to change your UI setup, or improving performance of the UI. But naw.. it is an easy thing they can just pull off the shelf and plug it in and they are just lazy for not adding it. That is the only possible explanation. +1 I don't think it is necessarily a refusal on their part in the 'we don't want our game to be as well designed and feature rich as other games' vain, but rather they just don't have or aren't willing to get the talent or the time or the money required to deliver a superior product. As someone else said, with all the firings and the implementation of F2P a lot of what was promised pre-F2P goes out the window....for now. EA now has some data regarding the viability of the game in the long term since F2P. While I do not expect EA to immediately re-hire all the staff they let go, I'd be willing to bet that they do put some additional resources into the development team. And maybe in six to nine months we start seeing more "quality of life" improvements like the ability to save skill tree and key bind sets (probably available via legacy for either credits or cartel coins). You must not have been in WoW for a long time - you click a button on your profile to switch Primary Spec and Secondary Spec. That's it - talents changed, glyphs changed, keybinds changed automagically. There's another button to switch between different gear sets automagically as well. It's been like that for years. What you are forgetting is that it took them years to implement it in the first place. It was not even ready when the expansion it was supposed to be in launched...it came out five months later. And the equipment manager was not even part of it. THAT feature came out a year later (although there were add-ons that could do that already). The last comment I will make on this is that Blizzard (makers of WoW) came out and stated that they did not like what dual spec did to WoW; that if they could repeal the feature they probably would, but they know they cannot. The fact that other MMO developers made the same "mistake" does not make it a good and right feature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J__H Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 (edited) I'll tell you why.. because just copy pasting WoW, RIFT or whatever other's Code into TOR will simply not work. Just because the concept is readilly available, doesn't mean the technology is. Each game has their own challenges in making this work. What was given, was the quick, easy improvement to make a step forward in allowing respeccing to be easier. To make the system you and everyone else wants you need a lot of work. Especially if you want to make it as feature rich as some of the others. Let me explain by making a simple list of the main features they'll need to add to give you what you want: - Functionality to change skill tree set up to a predetermined set - Functionality to have action bar setups change with each spec, including keybinds if applicable - Functionality to be able to make a predetermined set of gear you can equip on the spot (probably with also remembering Unfiy Color set up) - Functionality to change and maintain each predetermined set of skill trees, action bars and gear sets - New interface elements and menus to support all these new functionalities. This is just off the top of my head to make an industry standard Dual Spec system you expect from them. This is a lot of extra Coding work they need to do to make that work and deliver it as bug free as possible. What they did now was: - Make the respec system that was already in game available through more means than one NPC in each faction's fleet. You may call it half-assed. I call it the quick 'fix'. It didn't need any new interface elements, it didn't need any new systems or a lot of Testing effort to deliver it as bug free as possible. It was a step forward, but not the be-all end-all of this problem. The issue here is, and the line I quoted made that perfectly clear, that you have no idea how much effort it takes to make a good Dual spec system into the game. I am sure their UI guys are working on it and have it on their to-do list. But first they worked on other aspects like being able to change your UI setup, or improving performance of the UI. But naw.. it is an easy thing they can just pull off the shelf and plug it in and they are just lazy for not adding it. That is the only possible explanation. No matter how hard it is, by this time they could have implemented it by now. I will be very surprised if this is added within the next 2 years. BW has proved they do not deliver on a lot of promises. I'm very reluctant to believe we will receive a new more convenient system when we already have one in place, when other common MMO features that are wanted by a large population of the community eg. paid transfers, still aren't even in the game at all. I would very much rather them have taken awhile longer and actually implemented a better system rather than place a patch over it then put it aside forever. Edited February 1, 2013 by J__H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirgeZombie Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 No matter how hard it is, by this time they could have implemented it by now. I will be very surprised if this is added within the next 2 years. BW has proved they do not deliver on a lot of promises. I'm very reluctant to believe we will receive a new more convenient system when we already have one in place, when other common MMO features that are wanted by a large population of the community eg. paid transfers, still aren't even in the game at all. I would very much rather them have taken awhile longer and actually implemented a better system rather than place a patch over it then put it aside forever. And I'm happy with the system as is. I would much rather they did what they did instead of having nothing at all for the next 2 years. Not that I think your projected time or any of your statements are based on any facts of any kind. I'm just using your arbitrary number for the sake of argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knockerz Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 You get free respects on the fleet. It's actually better than dual spec I think. You can try as many different specs as you want so long as your on fleet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenaul Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 1) OP question was completely reasonable 2) Answer to OP questions is "No" 3) They did not introduced any sort of "alternative" system that is "better" and to say that they did is disingenuous. 4) Subscribers, after hefty initial investment can buy on per character basis ability to reset talents. Reset itself is free to subscribers only. 5) What is needed to make it passable is ability to store quickbars layouts the same ways the UI interface layouts already stored. Reason why it is not done is because UI interface layouts are stored client side in XML files but quickbar assignments are actually stored server side. 6) It's a quality of life improvement that is expected of modern MMORPG. It will conceivably also help with healer and tank shortage for group finder flashpoints and such. There is no logical reason to argue against it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnoggyMack Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 1) OP question was completely reasonable 2) Answer to OP questions is "No" The end. Really. The rest is just perpetuating a worthless argument about a feature that may someday be implemented, but the OP won't find out about it until they once again come back to the game they keep quitting to troll the forums some more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtsr Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Well yeah, which is what a dual spec does - saves your build, saves your bindings and quickbars. Redoing all that manually every time you want to switch from DPS to heal and back is silly. yesh, I concur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EATtheDEAD Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 I dont think there should be any confusion as to what constitutes dual spec. We should all know what it means, what i would assert however is that dual spec not being present in this game does equal something that needs 'fixing'. Dual spec is not a cornerstone feature of any and all successful MMORPGs despite what the WoW players may say. Besides, how many times a week do you respec? How long does it take, maybe 60 seconds to re tick the required skill boxes and drag some gear around...how much time do you think dual spec is actually going to save you? Not very much by the sound of it The fact we are a year in and the game has not collapsed without dual spec says a lot for how fundamental this feature really is imo. Driz You aren't understanding the reason behind wanting it in the game. It's when you are somewhere you can't respect like in a warzone. And maybe the spec you are using isn't really working and you know if you had an opposite spec you would do better for your team or could heal or switch from heals to damage or blah blah blah. Then after you exit combat you could switch your spec and get back into the mix. Or the same thing for in the middle of a flashpoint/operation. Or way out in the middle of a planet doing quests. It is just a quality of life addition. And I change my specs a couple times a week. Sometimes a day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devlonir Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 (edited) No matter how hard it is, by this time they could have implemented it by now. I will be very surprised if this is added within the next 2 years. BW has proved they do not deliver on a lot of promises. I'm very reluctant to believe we will receive a new more convenient system when we already have one in place, when other common MMO features that are wanted by a large population of the community eg. paid transfers, still aren't even in the game at all. I would very much rather them have taken awhile longer and actually implemented a better system rather than place a patch over it then put it aside forever. To be honest, since F2P took most of the UI development time (as F2P and the Cartel Store affect every part of the current UI) from around August to when F2P was launched in November, including a month or two of fixing Cartel Market interface issues, not one new UI development has come out. Not even the earlier mentioned 'improvements to the interface editor' and other things like UI performance, chat bubbles, and the bug with Unify Color not working correctly that was only recently fixed. Knowing development teams and how these things work, they have probably started focusing more effort on Quality of Life improvements again since around the holiday season.. maybe after 1.6 hit Live servers. So if Dual Spec in the works, the teams working on it would not be available long to work on this. Meaning that, at best, now they are working on their first internal prototypes developed on the first designs. Considering nothing specific has been said yet, chances are it is not beyond that stage if it is being developed at all. Thing is, if they took longer for the better solution, we would still have the same old system of only doing it on fleet because F2P development would still have been in there taking away all UI developers. Not to mention 6 months is probably not enough to develop this regardless. As others pointed out as well, WoW's dual spec was delivered almost half a year later than the expansion it should have been a part of, and it was not bug free until 6 months after that. Only then, an equipment manager was added as well. And who knows how long it took them to build it from design to delivery. But something that is 6 months delayed probably didn't have an initial development time planned of a few months. And at the time, WoW had a huge development team as it was in it's prime. I'm glad we have the quick solution now. I realise this is all they could deliver for now. But I also look forward to seeing the better system put into the game. I have a very small hope improvements in respeccing are part of the 'new systems' that has been hinted at in Rise of the Hutt Cartel announcements. But I honestly don't expect it to be. Only realistic timeline I see would be this time next year, maybe before the holiday season 2013. Edited February 1, 2013 by Devlonir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirgeZombie Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Subscribers basically get the ability to respec anywhere free of cost. You get 500 cartel coins a month. It's 480 cartel coins for the ability to respec anywhere. It takes minimal effort to go through the respec process. Adding dual specs really only helps the incredibly lazy and the people playing for free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eurynamous Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Check your legacy tree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtsr Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 know a player in guild seems to respec every hour... sometimes twice an hour. I can't memorize my tool bars on 5 toons man and I play 4 toons every day... extensively. Gimme dat duel spec mon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brtpp Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 this game badly needs dual specs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImperialSun Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 this game badly needs dual specs No it doesn't Driz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asavar Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Apparently you were away from the game for awhile. Hence why you'd even ask the questions you did. So, have you tried the legacy respec? Do you even know how it works? Your complaint about dual spec is so 2011. The game and the playerbase have moved on from that. Why haven't you? Legacy respec is crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MNWolf Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 I hope they add in dual spec soon. Would definitely be a nice and useful feature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thundergulch Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Google doesn't seem to be helping me here. Dual spec was supposed to be in 1.2, then 1.3, then 1.4 - was it ever added or are there plans to ever add dual spec? From your link http://www.gamefront.com/swtor-1-2-update-to-bring-dual-spec-ui-improvements-and-legacy-races/ "but dual spec is in the works and coming soon." How are you taking this as = "Dual spec was supposed to be in 1.2, then 1.3, then 1.4" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psandak Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 (edited) I hope they add in dual spec soon. Don't count on it. Would definitely be a nice and useful feature. I think we all agree this is true. In all honesty, I fought hard against dual spec when it was being floated in WoW, but once it was implemented, I had the gold so I spent it, and I willingly admit it expanded my horizons (my main was a holy spec priest and when dual spec came out I got a shadow spec) For now, the field respec legacy option and free respecs for subscribers are good intermediate compromise solutions. Those who want dual spec "NAU!!!," I quote Obi-Wan Kenobi when I say, "Patience!" Edited February 1, 2013 by psandak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graydon Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 It was never added and isn't needed. Everyone has the option to unlock the ability to respec at any time. This is not the definintion of dual spec. Hang in there OP, with the Cartel Market in place bringing more revenue, I am hoping we start seeing some huge Quality of Life improvements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallner Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 I would also really like if they added Dual Spec. Call me lazy, but i'd love it. Sure it shouldn't be the numero uno on the priority list, but the sooner the better! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SecretScientist Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 It was never added and I don't recall them ever saying it would be. Links please. Here are some direct links from http://www.swtor.com. Bioware has expressed interest in adding this feature for nearly a year. My guess is that it's not in due to prioritization. I am putting this information here for everyone's reference. Aurozia: Will there be a dual specialization system in the future? Will there be a possibility of changing advance classes as well? Daniel Erickson: We have no plans for switching advanced classes - which we see as fundamentally different class designs- but dual spec is in the works and coming soon. Reference: Community Q&A: Feb 10th 2012 http://www.swtor.com/blog/community-qa-feb-10th-2012 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Kiper: My question is are you still considering some sort of dual talent option, and if so is there an ETA? Austin: This is definitely a feature we hope to provide in the future, but we don't have any details to share at this time (including an ETA). Reference: Community Q&A: Jun 29th 2012 http://www.swtor.com/blog/community-qa-june-29th-2012#e Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnoggyMack Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Hang in there OP The OP didn't hang in there. They left. And then came back to check and see if this was added. They're not hanging in there at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uziforyou Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 You seriously think that's the same as dual spec? Oh well, it's not surprising this wasn't done really. He didn't say it was the same. He just said it wasn't needed because of what WAS implemented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordRyll Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Next time you are waiting in queue for a healer or tank, remember this thread... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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