Please disable respeccing inside WZ

[beattlebilly]

PVP should be about skill, not the willingness to put in many many hours and to change spec rapidly to exploit the situation.

 

If a person sucks as a tank, sucks as dps, and/or sucks as heals, doesn't matter how much respeccing they do during a wz, they aren't exploiting anything LOL

 

If a person is skilled as a tank, skilled as dps, and/or skilled as heals, those many many hours they put into learning, gearing, and optimizing their skill/gear/class aren't exploiting anything either. They are being beneficial to their group, there's not exploiting there.

 

And before you get on my case about being one of those that do that because I have some giggle-stomp roffle class, no sir I'm not. I'm DPS Pyro Merc as my main, I absolutely refuse to heal because quite honestly I don't have the temperament for it. I'm lazy to boot, so I'm not going to put that much effort into it. If someone else is, why should that be taken away from them?

[ZipZep]

And I haven't seen any arguments good enough for me on why to disable it.

 

Well, my example with marauder. Before field respec, at least a team had to decide on having the utility of carnage at the cost of less dps. Unless we are taking an exceptional Carnage marauder. Now, 1 marauder can fulfill both roles in the same wz. It just doesnt feel right to me.

 

In most wz, its not really a problem. I rarely see respec's happening in Novare after 2 bases have been capped.

 

For voidstar, especially when 2 queal teams meet, the respeccing has pretty much removed all chances of getting first door. Was hard enough as it was. At this point most voidstars are a kill race from first sec. People dont dare take chance to spent time getting 2 tanks and 2½ healers low, time it with spawn closing and then try wipe the team and plant. cause they may well fail and simply end up loosing on kills.

 

Voidstar has always been wierd that way, but i think its worse now than before.

[ebado]

Not signed. I've had too many worthless five healer or five tank teams that can't cap an opposing node or get a door down without some fortunate spawn door timing. Me and another respec to DPS at the start, bam, much better team comp, less frustrating warzone for everybody.

[oslek]

Nope. Learn to play or go away.

[AdrianDmitruk]

You know how people roll their eyes by retorting with "nice 31/31/31 spec you have there" whenever people QQ about class balance?

 

With field respec in warzones you can effectively get it to 31/31/10. To give an example, scoundrels go scrapper on offense in VS and heals on defense, or even in NC/CW/HG they can be heals most of the time but stealth out and field respec to scrapper for a ninja cap.

 

I would support limiting field respec to ONCE per warzone, before it starts. Start of round 2 in voidstar doesn't count. It's one thing to switch spec real quick when you see what warzone it is or what team comp you have, but once you're in it, you should have to commit to one spec.

Edited January 30, 2013 by AdrianDmitruk

[Never_Hesitate]

You know how people roll their eyes by retorting with "nice 31/31/31 spec you have there" whenever people QQ about class balance?

 

With field respec in warzones you can effectively get it to 31/31/10. To give an example, scoundrels go scrapper on offense in VS and heals on defense, or even in NC they can be heals most of the time but stealth out and field respec to scrapper for a ninja cap.

 

I would support limiting field respec to ONCE per warzone, before it starts. Start of round 2 in voidstar doesn't count. It's one thing to switch spec real quick when you see what warzone it is, but once you're in it, you should have to commit to one spec.

 

And where do I have 2 Top-tier talents at once in this story? (31/31)

[ZipZep]

You know how people roll their eyes by retorting with "nice 31/31/31 spec you have there" whenever people QQ about class balance?

 

With field respec in warzones you can effectively get it to 31/31/10. To give an example, scoundrels go scrapper on offense in VS and heals on defense, or even in NC they can be heals most of the time but stealth out and field respec to scrapper for a ninja cap.

 

I would support limiting field respec to ONCE per warzone, before it starts. Start of round 2 in voidstar doesn't count. It's one thing to switch spec real quick when you see what warzone it is or what team comp you have, but once you're in it, you should have to commit to one spec.

 

I agree. This is the way I would like it too be.

[Anishor]

Seriously, this is one of the coolest feature we have now. People cry when there is no healer. Guess what I can change DPS to healer in 30 sec. If we have 4 healer I switch back to DPS.

 

It's more conveniant for the PUG and the random matching.

 

It bring more strategy and demand more SKILL because you have to masterize different spec of you character depending of the different factor.

 

Don't remove the field respec.

 

QFE, I see we have 5 tanks, I'm switching to deception.

[DarkSaberMaster]

Nope. Don't agree. Leave it as is. As others have said, it's available to everyone so nobody is at an advantage/disadvantage. If you choose not to do it or think it's unfair, that's on you.

[AdrianDmitruk]

And where do I have 2 Top-tier talents at once in this story? (31/31)

 

How do you balance a sawbones scoundrel that stealths out, and 60 seconds later, has flechette round and is faceplanting the defender and capping the side node?

 

That's pretty dam close to 31/31. That it isn't exactly simultaneous isn't the point--it's close enough to be very upsetting to any notion of balance when properly exploited/abused.

 

You don't balance 31/31, unless you restrict field respec to once per warzone.

[Ghost_Spectre]

This 'PVP team' has made some pretty daft decisions regarding PVP in the past, but this is without doubt the worst.

 

There are so many reasons why allowing fluid respeccing throughout any point of a WZ is bad. But to name a few.

 

It furthers the Jugg focus spam. Jugg's go focus for attack, hybrid or full tank for defend. Or just all go tank for huttball.

 

It furthers the gear divide between those that have and those that haven't. It requires two gear sets, both fully augmented, and is increasingly becoming a necessity to compete.

 

There are a multitude of reasons but I'm too indifferent to the reasons behind why the decision was made. I think most would agree it needs to be changed, to keep a balance in PVP and stop the escalating divide between the average pug and those who will go out of their way to exploit any slight advantage.

 

Frosty, I agree with you concerning the current exploiting the 'professional' PvPers are doing with respeccing to Min/Maxing gear to gain advantages the developers had no intention of allowing. Now, after reading these replies, you can see that they want to keep this feature so they can continue to exploit as they wish. In their mind's eye this is all well and good. However, exploiting to gain an advantage is still cheating. Even though it is "legal" to do so, it is still cheating.

 

Sadly though, what you have said fell on deaf ears. These 'professionals' could care less about what is fair and what is right. If they can gain an advantage through exploiting gear or spec trees they will do it, the rest of us be damned. We can either join them exacerbating the imbalance problem or stay the course and not comprise ourselves. I choose the later because I have to live with myself.

 

The moral compasses of these people who do such things, the evidence is seen in their replies to your suggestion, are broken. Just keep doing what you are doing and let them continue breaking the system. One day, the developers will drop the hammer saying enough is enough putting a stop to all this. Then these very same people will whine and moan with threats of unsubbing. That's what happens when children get their hands caught in the cookie jar

[DarkSaberMaster]

Lol. Now we are back to "Min/Maxing is exploiting"? Lol. I can't get enough of these forums.

[cycao]

Frosty, I agree with you concerning the current exploiting the 'professional' PvPers are doing with respeccing to Min/Maxing gear to gain advantages the developers had no intention of allowing. Now, after reading these replies, you can see that they want to keep this feature so they can continue to exploit as they wish. In their mind's eye this is all well and good. However, exploiting to gain an advantage is still cheating. Even though it is "legal" to do so, it is still cheating.

 

Sadly though, what you have said fell on deaf ears. These 'professionals' could care less about what is fair and what is right. If they can gain an advantage through exploiting gear or spec trees they will do it, the rest of us be damned. We can either join them exacerbating the imbalance problem or stay the course and not comprise ourselves. I choose the later because I have to live with myself.

 

The moral compasses of these people who do such things, the evidence is seen in their replies to your suggestion, are broken. Just keep doing what you are doing and let them continue breaking the system. One day, the developers will drop the hammer saying enough is enough putting a stop to all this. Then these very same people will whine and moan with threats of unsubbing. That's what happens when children get their hands caught in the cookie jar

 

Just tell us where the bad pvpers touched you and we will try and get you through this.

[Never_Hesitate]

Frosty, I agree with you concerning the current exploiting the 'professional' PvPers are doing with respeccing to Min/Maxing gear to gain advantages the developers had no intention of allowing. Now, after reading these replies, you can see that they want to keep this feature so they can continue to exploit as they wish. In their mind's eye this is all well and good. However, exploiting to gain an advantage is still cheating. Even though it is "legal" to do so, it is still cheating.

 

It's neither cheating nor bugusing, they implemented it and that you can respecc in wz's is not a bug of this implementation, they put it in the game and knew of it.

 

Are you a dev or where do you know from, that they didn't had min/maxing in mind?

[beattlebilly]

Frosty, I agree with you concerning the current exploiting the 'professional' PvPers are doing with respeccing to Min/Maxing gear to gain advantages the developers had no intention of allowing.

 

If they had no intention of allowing min/maxing, they wouldn't have allowed for it to happen. They made the gear modable for just this purpose, along with the aesthetic appeal(if mod'ing was just purely for aesthetics, they would have made a wardrobing feature similar to what Rift has, or a transmog feature like what WoW has). The stock gear you get is set up the way it is so that you aren't automatically going in uber-powerful, they made it this way so people could choose which stats they want to min/max and not be forced to settle. If a spec/class is better off stacking power/surge, that's w hat they should stack. If a spec/class is better off stacking crit/surge, that's what they should stack. If a stat is completely useless to them in PvP(accuracy), they should be able to work to get rid of it. The people that do min/maxing are putting a hell of a lot of time, effort, and credits into doing so. They aren't coming out of the gates powerful, they have to work for it. And why shouldn't they? Gives them an incentive to keep PvP'ing.

 

And it's not just PvP'ers that min/max, PvE'ers do it too. Would you call them exploiters, or is it only exploiting when doing it to have an advantage over players instead of scripted NPC's? And it's not an unfair advantage, because EVERYONE has the option/chance to do it. Just because others are lazy doesn't mean the ones that work their bums off are exploiting.

Edited January 30, 2013 by beattlebilly

[revcrisis]

Frosty, I agree with you concerning the current exploiting the 'professional' PvPers are doing with respeccing to Min/Maxing gear to gain advantages the developers had no intention of allowing.

HAHAHAHA. This made me laugh out loud. Let me guess, you do PVE a lot more than PVP - hardmode eternity vault or storymode denova, yes? Guess what, PVE players all min/max as well. How about those datacrons that devs put into the game? Those are exploits??? I never knew! Get off your high horse, optimizing gear and customizing stats has been a steadfast pillar of all RPGs. I'm sorry your moral compass tells you not to optimize your gear. Have fun running around in non-modifiable greens and blues with your 11k health.

Edited January 30, 2013 by revcrisis

[TipsyDrow]

Respec before the start of any given match? Heck yea, this is a great feature and helps balance out teams. Respec during the match? No, just no. One round I'm facing a smash jug, the next the same guy is a tank hybrid with unstoppable? No. One round there are three dps ops running about face planting people and the next all three are heals? No. Do it at the start and only the start of a match.

[Ghost_Spectre]

It's neither cheating nor bugusing, they implemented it and that you can respecc in wz's is not a bug of this implementation, they put it in the game and knew of it.

 

Yes, not a bug, or anything else, just like having the vendors in PvP at the respawn points. However, those are no longer available? Why? Because people were doing something the developers had no intention of allowing. It happens. You can count on certain things being stopped because it causes an imbalance within the game. This only happens when people find ways to cause an imbalance in game play. It happens with every game be it roleplaying to electronic. You can bet things like this the developers will put a stop to it when the time comes. Remember, they already stated they have a major rebalance coming. Keep that in mind.

 

Are you a dev or where do you know from, that they didn't had min/maxing in mind?

 

A developer, yes, for this game no. How do I know? Many years of developing game systems that revolves around mechanics and balance play. Did the current developers envision players would mix armor/mods/enhancements to blow through their metric and balance? No. They purposely design the gear with the stats for game play balance that included the use of stims and buffs.

 

Anything that is done to give an advantage where it did not exist originally, is an exploit. Exploiting is cheating, legalize until they put a stop to it. You and the other can color it whatever you want, you are cheating the system, the game, and everyone else solely because 'you do not like what you were given.' Grow up, life isn't fair.

 

You're dealt the cards, use what you have. It takes no skill to overload a toon with as much power and surge they can have, bypassing crit, to achieve monstrous hits with smash/sweep. Anyone who says that is not an exploit is delusional. Respeccing between rounds is an exploit. You and the rest of the elitist professional PvPers will do whatever it takes to win, consequences be damn.

 

You rationalize this by, "If the developers did want us doing this, they'd not allowed it in the first place." That is a childish argument of the highest order. You want to continue this course, be my guess. However, when the hammer falls and they, the developers, say, 'NO MORE.' Don't come here crying how they screwed you and the rest of the PvPers by doing so. The fault lays squarely on your shoulders, period. So exploit away because you can. Those of us who do not, will continue to be faithful to ourselves keeping our integrity intact while you and the rest continue on with your broken moral compasses. So cheat away, you are the ones breaking the system of balance game play hurting everyone else, including yourselves.

[beattlebilly]

A developer, yes, for this game no. How do I know? Many years of developing game systems that revolves around mechanics and balance play. Did the current developers envision players would mix armor/mods/enhancements to blow through their metric and balance? No. They purposely design the gear with the stats for game play balance that included the use of stims and buffs.

 

Why make the gear modable then if that wasn't their intent?

[cycao]

Yes, not a bug, or anything else, just like having the vendors in PvP at the respawn points. However, those are no longer available? Why? Because people were doing something the developers had no intention of allowing. It happens. You can count on certain things being stopped because it causes an imbalance within the game. This only happens when people find ways to cause an imbalance in game play. It happens with every game be it roleplaying to electronic. You can bet things like this the developers will put a stop to it when the time comes. Remember, they already stated they have a major rebalance coming. Keep that in mind.

 

 

 

A developer, yes, for this game no. How do I know? Many years of developing game systems that revolves around mechanics and balance play. Did the current developers envision players would mix armor/mods/enhancements to blow through their metric and balance? No. They purposely design the gear with the stats for game play balance that included the use of stims and buffs.

 

Anything that is done to give an advantage where it did not exist originally, is an exploit. Exploiting is cheating, legalize until they put a stop to it. You and the other can color it whatever you want, you are cheating the system, the game, and everyone else solely because 'you do not like what you were given.' Grow up, life isn't fair.

 

You're dealt the cards, use what you have. It takes no skill to overload a toon with as much power and surge they can have, bypassing crit, to achieve monstrous hits with smash/sweep. Anyone who says that is not an exploit is delusional. Respeccing between rounds is an exploit. You and the rest of the elitist professional PvPers will do whatever it takes to win, consequences be damn.

 

You rationalize this by, "If the developers did want us doing this, they'd not allowed it in the first place." That is a childish argument of the highest order. You want to continue this course, be my guess. However, when the hammer falls and they, the developers, say, 'NO MORE.' Don't come here crying how they screwed you and the rest of the PvPers by doing so. The fault lays squarely on your shoulders, period. So exploit away because you can. Those of us who do not, will continue to be faithful to ourselves keeping our integrity intact while you and the rest continue on with your broken moral compasses. So cheat away, you are the ones breaking the system of balance game play hurting everyone else, including yourselves.

 

This is why we can't have nice things.

[Never_Hesitate]

Yes, not a bug, or anything else, just like having the vendors in PvP at the respawn points. However, those are no longer available? Why? Because people were doing something the developers had no intention of allowing. It happens. You can count on certain things being stopped because it causes an imbalance within the game. This only happens when people find ways to cause an imbalance in game play. It happens with every game be it roleplaying to electronic. You can bet things like this the developers will put a stop to it when the time comes. Remember, they already stated they have a major rebalance coming. Keep that in mind.

 

What is this big imbalance you speak about?

It is available for me and for you.

You have given me one class, that gains something from it.

What about the other classes?

They stated the rebalance is coming with the expanded and twitched skill trees, yes.

But to include something that ridiculous in a rebalancing... oh wait BW -> Patch 1.2... it might come if they are still as bad in balancing things, as they were back then.

 

A developer, yes, for this game no.

How do I know? Many years of developing game systems that revolves around mechanics and balance play. Did the current developers envision players would mix armor/mods/enhancements to blow through their metric and balance? No. They purposely design the gear with the stats for game play balance that included the use of stims and buffs.

 

Anything that is done to give an advantage where it did not exist originally, is an exploit. Exploiting is cheating, legalize until they put a stop to it. You and the other can color it whatever you want, you are cheating the system, the game, and everyone else solely because 'you do not like what you were given.' Grow up, life isn't fair.

 

You're dealt the cards, use what you have. It takes no skill to overload a toon with as much power and surge they can have, bypassing crit, to achieve monstrous hits with smash/sweep. Anyone who says that is not an exploit is delusional. Respeccing between rounds is an exploit. You and the rest of the elitist professional PvPers will do whatever it takes to win, consequences be damn.

 

You rationalize this by, "If the developers did want us doing this, they'd not allowed it in the first place." That is a childish argument of the highest order. You want to continue this course, be my guess. However, when the hammer falls and they, the developers, say, 'NO MORE.' Don't come here crying how they screwed you and the rest of the PvPers by doing so. The fault lays squarely on your shoulders, period. So exploit away because you can. Those of us who do not, will continue to be faithful to ourselves keeping our integrity intact while you and the rest continue on with your broken moral compasses. So cheat away, you are the ones breaking the system of balance game play hurting everyone else, including yourselves.

So you don't know their intentions.

[Kurvv]

Yes, not a bug, or anything else, just like having the vendors in PvP at the respawn points. However, those are no longer available? Why? Because people were doing something the developers had no intention of allowing. It happens. You can count on certain things being stopped because it causes an imbalance within the game. This only happens when people find ways to cause an imbalance in game play. It happens with every game be it roleplaying to electronic. You can bet things like this the developers will put a stop to it when the time comes. Remember, they already stated they have a major rebalance coming. Keep that in mind.

 

 

 

A developer, yes, for this game no. How do I know? Many years of developing game systems that revolves around mechanics and balance play. Did the current developers envision players would mix armor/mods/enhancements to blow through their metric and balance? No. They purposely design the gear with the stats for game play balance that included the use of stims and buffs.

 

Anything that is done to give an advantage where it did not exist originally, is an exploit. Exploiting is cheating, legalize until they put a stop to it. You and the other can color it whatever you want, you are cheating the system, the game, and everyone else solely because 'you do not like what you were given.' Grow up, life isn't fair.

 

You're dealt the cards, use what you have. It takes no skill to overload a toon with as much power and surge they can have, bypassing crit, to achieve monstrous hits with smash/sweep. Anyone who says that is not an exploit is delusional. Respeccing between rounds is an exploit. You and the rest of the elitist professional PvPers will do whatever it takes to win, consequences be damn.

 

You rationalize this by, "If the developers did want us doing this, they'd not allowed it in the first place." That is a childish argument of the highest order. You want to continue this course, be my guess. However, when the hammer falls and they, the developers, say, 'NO MORE.' Don't come here crying how they screwed you and the rest of the PvPers by doing so. The fault lays squarely on your shoulders, period. So exploit away because you can. Those of us who do not, will continue to be faithful to ourselves keeping our integrity intact while you and the rest continue on with your broken moral compasses. So cheat away, you are the ones breaking the system of balance game play hurting everyone else, including yourselves.

 

Dude....

[Never_Hesitate]

Can I get an honest answer on this:

What do you think is not exploiting nowadays if you just take a look at the pvp forum?

[Heezdedjim]

Nah. In fact what they "should" do is introduce a full concept of "loadout" switching on the fly. You should be able to get a toon set up with gear, skill tree, and your entire UI layout, including positions and content of all quickbars and other controls, and then save ALL of those settings in one profile. If you have paid for the field respec perk, then you should have a menu you can pop up and switch between loadouts instantly with one click, so that all your gear, skill tree, and full UI gets instantly swapped to the profile you selected. This should be available at any time, anywere, as long as you're not in combat mode.

 

The problem is there is no way Bioware can possibly manage to implement this, since they're still grapping with the "hard problems" like making colors match on their armor sets, and it took them six months just to make a simple group finder for PvE. However, if they did decide to try it, they could at least justify the work by the prospect that it's a feature people would certainly pay $$ for in the Cartel Market.

[ebado]

I didn't know it was possible for somebody to be so delusional as to think min-maxing equipment in an MMO is an exploit.