Same gender romance discussion

[copperjack]

The reason most of the romance options are human is probably because it's very unlikely that players would be put off by romancing a human. If they added in more human OGR in addition to what's already there then I'd agree that's a bit of a waste and they could have tried going for something different. But as it is right now we only have two actual SGR options, one human and one sith. I don't think it's unreasonable to want at least one human option each for male and female SGR. I don't think they need to try and personally make it appeal to absolutely everyone, but I think given what they've done so far making the only SGR options non human wouldn't be a great move. Maybe I'm a little biased though, I personally can't stand the Voss and wouldn't be that interested in having one as a companion.

[Tatile]

You know - Voss are taller than humans, they're taller than the player models. I wonder if Bioware would animate a male character kissing up? I mean, all the kissing scenes I've seen, female character/NPC kisses up, male character/NPC kisses down (is BT1 Male shorter than BT3 Female?)

 

It sounds small, but the height difference thing is something can crop up a lot (I remember reading about doctors who, a couple of decades ago, tried to 'help' little boys who were projected to grow up below-average-height, and little girls who were projected to grow up above-average-height, for their respected sexes, because of the belief that they would be unlucky in love) - it seems to be a perceived power thing?

 

I hope, at least, that when they do introduce SGRA content with existing, and new, companions, they refrain from doing as they did with the OGRAs, and have disturbing undercurrents of power abuse (particularly with the student/teacher relationships they like to do with the Male Characters and Female Companions.)

[fabiyun]

I wouldn't mind BioWare doing something different for a change, and the next planet be Dathomir. The story wouldn't be so much divided by faction, as it would by gender. (Since gender seems to be so hard to remove, better make use of it then.) Landing in a matriarchy would of course be problematic with the cis het male player, het romancing would be impossible, men are slaves, if anything they are only used. Women could have all kinds of interesting romance options . It'd also be interesting to see a quest where you are not to win a battle, for males a great number of female witches attack with a nice enrage timer, and a quest that progresses only on defeat. Followed by a choice of submitting to the matriarchy and be subserviant or having to flee to the night brothers (what a nice little obstacle for light sided/republic characters). The night brothers would have all kinds of SGRA and SGR flirt options with Zabrak and Human NPC and a new companion ^_^. Dathomir is also interesting for its Star Temple, and the history the Gree and Rakata have there and in the SWTOR story in general.

[Palar]

Nightsisters, eh? A whole colony of Kaliyos... there you go, BioWare - make all the Rattataki bi.

[Euphrosyne]

It sounds small, but the height difference thing is something can crop up a lot (I remember reading about doctors who, a couple of decades ago, tried to 'help' little boys who were projected to grow up below-average-height, and little girls who were projected to grow up above-average-height, for their respected sexes, because of the belief that they would be unlucky in love) - it seems to be a perceived power thing?

Being 6'6" and female sucks.

[copperjack]

I wouldn't mind BioWare doing something different for a change, and the next planet be Dathomir. The story wouldn't be so much divided by faction, as it would by gender. (Since gender seems to be so hard to remove, better make use of it then.) Landing in a matriarchy would of course be problematic with the cis het male player, het romancing would be impossible, men are slaves, if anything they are only used. Women could have all kinds of interesting romance options . It'd also be interesting to see a quest where you are not to win a battle, for males a great number of female witches attack with a nice enrage timer, and a quest that progresses only on defeat. Followed by a choice of submitting to the matriarchy and be subserviant or having to flee to the night brothers (what a nice little obstacle for light sided/republic characters). The night brothers would have all kinds of SGRA and SGR flirt options with Zabrak and Human NPC and a new companion ^_^. Dathomir is also interesting for its Star Temple, and the history the Gree and Rakata have there and in the SWTOR story in general.

 

This game takes place about 3000 years before the witches were ever on Dathomir though. The sentient rancors and Star Temple would be pretty cool, and it would be nice to have some story content with more variation depending on your character, but if you're looking for a matriarchy it would probably have to be some other planet.

 

@Tatile BT1 men are definitely shorter than BT3 women. I've only seen one NPC woman with BT3, but I think BT1 men might even be slightly shorter than BT2 women.

[Tatile]

I wouldn't mind BioWare doing something different for a change, and the next planet be Dathomir. The story wouldn't be so much divided by faction, as it would by gender. (Since gender seems to be so hard to remove, better make use of it then.) Landing in a matriarchy would of course be problematic with the cis het male player, het romancing would be impossible, men are slaves, if anything they are only used. Women could have all kinds of interesting romance options . It'd also be interesting to see a quest where you are not to win a battle, for males a great number of female witches attack with a nice enrage timer, and a quest that progresses only on defeat. Followed by a choice of submitting to the matriarchy and be subserviant or having to flee to the night brothers (what a nice little obstacle for light sided/republic characters). The night brothers would have all kinds of SGRA and SGR flirt options with Zabrak and Human NPC and a new companion ^_^. Dathomir is also interesting for its Star Temple, and the history the Gree and Rakata have there and in the SWTOR story in general.

 

That does sound pretty awesome - though I don't think our current (dude) writers could do it XD

[Rabenschwinge]

That's an interesting idea. The motivation to come to the planet might be to rescue some male "damsel in distress". It might be an interesting conflict ground for dark side / light side choices as well - stand for equality and stand for polarization and the dominance of the own gender respectively.

 

From the perspective of my main, a female twi'lek jedi shadow, that would put her into an interesting position. Be privileged by a system that she resents she would have to try find a balance between presenting the Republic in the best possible way, including the tolerance to every planet's own ways, and fighting for what she believes is right. If those witches believe they can buy a jedi master with a privileged life they should think again - "This weapon is my life."

 

Dathomir sounds like an interesting scenario anyway. Something gothic - not front loaded as Oricon - but swamps, decay, creepy castles, whispers and something always luring at the edge of perception, rather than booming voices out of the nothing. To give you the idea of constantly being watched and tested in a more subtle manner.

[Joushigun]

I wouldn't mind BioWare doing something different for a change, and the next planet be Dathomir. The story wouldn't be so much divided by faction, as it would by gender. (Since gender seems to be so hard to remove, better make use of it then.) Landing in a matriarchy would of course be problematic with the cis het male player, het romancing would be impossible, men are slaves, if anything they are only used. Women could have all kinds of interesting romance options . It'd also be interesting to see a quest where you are not to win a battle, for males a great number of female witches attack with a nice enrage timer, and a quest that progresses only on defeat. Followed by a choice of submitting to the matriarchy and be subserviant or having to flee to the night brothers (what a nice little obstacle for light sided/republic characters). The night brothers would have all kinds of SGRA and SGR flirt options with Zabrak and Human NPC and a new companion ^_^. Dathomir is also interesting for its Star Temple, and the history the Gree and Rakata have there and in the SWTOR story in general.

 

Star Trek: The Next Generation "Angel".

 

But I love the idea of a matriarchal planet where the quest lines aren't about conquest and slaughter, but diplomacy. The choices you make in your interactions could have severe implications for your character, but for male characters, it is much more difficult to get through the questlines as you aren't trusted as readily as a woman would be; however, for a DS female character, it would be very easy to take advantage/manipulate the diplomatic threads so that things would turn out darker and more to the advantage of the player.

[Tatile]

Star Trek: The Next Generation "Angel".

 

But I love the idea of a matriarchal planet where the quest lines aren't about conquest and slaughter, but diplomacy. The choices you make in your interactions could have severe implications for your character, but for male characters, it is much more difficult to get through the questlines as you aren't trusted as readily as a woman would be; however, for a DS female character, it would be very easy to take advantage/manipulate the diplomatic threads so that things would turn out darker and more to the advantage of the player.

 

Sounds perfect for the Inquisitor and Consular classes (both about diplomacy and manipulation.)

[Joushigun]

Sounds perfect for the Inquisitor and Consular classes (both about diplomacy and manipulation.)

 

I was thinking that I could expand on that

 

While not class-specific, neutral quest lines divided into the four core classes and their strengths.

[Tatile]

I was thinking that I could expand on that

 

While not class-specific, neutral quest lines divided into the four core classes and their strengths.

 

With gendered differences, mwhahahaha.

[Joushigun]

With gendered differences, mwhahahaha.

 

Definitely. I think it would be fun, and I honestly don't think that they'd lose players over it.

[Tatile]

Definitely. I think it would be fun, and I honestly don't think that they'd lose players over it.

 

You'd probably get some whining on the boards from people (*cough*men*cough*) who are angry they've landed on a planet full of women, but they're not instantly an adoring sexual fantasy. Not much loss there XD

[Rabenschwinge]

I wonder how exactly you imagine this diplomacy to work? Like the trial in Neverwinter Nights 2? That depended mostly on your characters social stats. Your charisma stat and skill ranks in Diplomacy, Bluff, Intimidate. Or like assembly of the lords in Dragon Age? I found that a bit trial and error and must admit that I loaded it like five times before I was pleased with the result because I found it a difficult hard to predict how the lords would react to which choice.

 

A system that I can imagine might be one where you need to gain measureable influence on different persons in different ways. You may come up with gifts, be submissive, be aggressive and demanding, be friendly and understanding. Different persons might react differently to various approaches. A higher level of influence unveils more information on how the persons in question are networked amongst each other and is displayed on some kind of graph. Rivalry can be beneficial in its own ways... if you manage to gain enough influence and strengthen the position of certain key persons you win...

 

I don't really like the idea of making the game more or less difficult based on a gender & alignment combination. The game should be equally challenging, yet the idea of a different action is certainly interesting. However, introducing additional gender differences (on top of the romance option which this thread is about) and an overtly sexistic government might backfire.

Edited December 11, 2013 by Rabenschwinge

[copperjack]

I don't really like the idea of making the game more or less difficult based on a gender & alignment combination. The game should be equally challenging, yet the idea of a different action is certainly interesting. However, introducing additional gender differences (on top of the romance option which this thread is about) and an overtly sexistic government might backfire.

 

It would be easy enough to do dialogue changes, like how aliens are treated on Dromund Kaas, or maybe even have sidequests where men are asked to do one thing and women another. A lot of the current acknowledgement of character differences is in dialogue rather than action anyway. I agree it shouldn't be made more challenging for one type of player than another though.

 

Aside from the fact that it likely wouldn't happen with the current developers, I'm not sure how having a planet where men are automatically enslaved for breeding and women are welcomed with open arms would go down. If it was the background culture of the planet that would be one thing, but having it as something forced on the player is another.

[Rabenschwinge]

I am not so negative about the current writers. They did a good job on Makeb, I think, even though I found Oricon a bit predictable and shallow. "I am the incarnation of evil and need to destroy all life, just because." Yeah right. An aspect of Makeb that I like is how the Imperial and the Republican story tie in and how you need to do both to get the full picture. Doing something like this for male & female characters as well might prove interesting.

 

That the writers pick up that particular idea is of course highly unlikely but that doesn't mean they don't have their own ideas.

Edited December 12, 2013 by Rabenschwinge

[Tatile]

I think CopperJack might be referring to the long-held suspicion, in this and other threads, that there's a culture of 'manliness' and 'masculinity' in Austin that has proved to be somewhat detrimental to the representation of women in this game (latest example: all SGR female options are bisexual.)

 

Of course, that's how I read it, CopperJack may just be referring to the fact that there are only two writers in Austin currently.

[Joushigun]

. . .there are only two writers in Austin currently.

 

WHAT?!

 

Alright, I won't relocate to Austin, but so long as they don't mind doing this by, say, Skype, then can call me up and hire me to write for them. I mean, two writers? No wonder they're having problems.

 

And I honestly believe that one of our biggest problems is the perception that people will leave in boatloads if they give us more diversity in the storyline. I doubt that since The Sims seems to do very well despite having same-sex marriage and since that is a family focused game. . .

[copperjack]

I think CopperJack might be referring to the long-held suspicion, in this and other threads, that there's a culture of 'manliness' and 'masculinity' in Austin that has proved to be somewhat detrimental to the representation of women in this game (latest example: all SGR female options are bisexual.)

 

Sort of. I think it's unlikely that they'd write a planet like Dathomir considering they haven't even done male slave gear yet. If they did actually have a go at writing it they could probably do a decent job and make it interesting, but the idea as it was originally proposed sounded a bit more like something that would be written by a radical feminist than Bioware Austin. And if it was written by Austin it would probably have at least one OGR with the witches.

[DAWUSS]

I think CopperJack might be referring to the long-held suspicion, in this and other threads, that there's a culture of 'manliness' and 'masculinity' in Austin that has proved to be somewhat detrimental to the representation of women in this game (latest example: all SGR female options are bisexual.)

 

I thought Austin was an entirely different entity (culturally speaking) than the rest of Texas...

[Tatile]

I thought Austin was an entirely different entity (culturally speaking) than the rest of Texas...

 

I live in England - but I was referring to the studio not the city (? everything in the US is a city...)

[ReiKai]

The thing with "Dathomir" is it doesn't come until much, much later. And it's also rather confusing, as the Zabrak and Ratattaki on Dathomir, are somehow related and all Females born between them become Nightsisters and all the Males are all Zabrak Nightbrothers. It doesn't make any sense and the only explanation is "Magic". It wouldn't fit at all with the currently existing story and given these two species already exist for players to enjoy, it wouldn't make sense to include it.

 

homosexual or bisexual Zabrak or Ratattaki NPCs/Companions to romance wouldn't be a bad idea. But creating a whole planet for it would be rather obnoxious, time consuming, and unnecessary.

[Pietrastor]

WHAT?!

 

Not sure what are you surprised about. If you think about how much dialogues are there in the past 4 patches released since April, even 2 seems excessive Wish Oricon story-treatement was the lowest amount of story content we would be getting outside expansions, not the highest...

[Palar]

The thing with "Dathomir" is it doesn't come until much, much later. And it's also rather confusing, as the Zabrak and Ratattaki on Dathomir, are somehow related and all Females born between them become Nightsisters and all the Males are all Zabrak Nightbrothers. It doesn't make any sense and the only explanation is "Magic". It wouldn't fit at all with the currently existing story and given these two species already exist for players to enjoy, it wouldn't make sense to include it.

 

homosexual or bisexual Zabrak or Ratattaki NPCs/Companions to romance wouldn't be a bad idea. But creating a whole planet for it would be rather obnoxious, time consuming, and unnecessary.

 

The joys of retconning - they look like Zabraks and Rattataki, but they're a seperate Dathomir race from Zabrak/Human crossbreeding... done mostly to fit Ventress in with the Nightsisters, who all still look Rattataki and she still has her backstory of being found on Rattatak. Given that she was the first Rattataki character created, I'm confused as to why the change was needed. Pretty sure Maul was the first Zabrak as well, before the retcon, so it makes my brain hurt a little.

 

tl,dr: Males look like Zabraks, Females look like Rattataki. And people thought the sexual dimorphism in Warcraft made no sense...

Edited December 13, 2013 by Palar