Diviciacus Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 (edited) You'd have to wonder why she'd bother, though; not being attracted to him, why sleep with someone you're not attracted to? Alderaan operates on what is essentially the fuedal system. It's entirely possible that under Alderaanian law, a marriage isn't valid unless consummated. Considering the BH even gets married for political reasons, it's not outside the realm of possibility that a lesbian BH would suck it up and lie there disinterestedly for two minutes while he does his thing. Especially considering the almost comical pragmatism of the BH. Edited July 29, 2015 by Diviciacus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cythereal Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 You wish...and come to that, I likewise wish; but I'm not overly optimistic of the possibility unraveling favourably... Yeah. I've felt for years now that Bioware's name no longer makes games an auto-buy for me with how wildly inconsistent they've gotten. TOR took a while to get good, and even now its still horribly disappointing when it comes to gay/bi protagonists, something they'd previously been very good about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sentientomega Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 (edited) Alderaan operates on what is essentially the fuedal system. It's entirely possible that under Alderaanian law, a marriage isn't valid unless consummated. Considering the BH even gets married for political reasons, it's not outside the realm of possibility that a lesbian BH would suck it up and lie there disinterestedly for two minutes while he does his thing. Especially considering the almost comical pragmatism of the BH. She'd have to be a verrry pragmatic "lesbian" to do that, and it brings me back to asking why she would marry him if she knew it would mean consummation required to legally validate it. And what political reasons? Outside Alderaan next to no-one will recognise the "baroness" as such with any degree of seriousness, in fact, marrying Raffid could be utter political suicide as far as Alderaanian politics is concerned, nobody likes him because he is such a thoroughly objectionable little oik and thus fundamentally unlikable; I'd sooner marry Savorin Malfus the Seventh, an impulse that could only be acted upon with the help of the most potent psychotropic drugs. Also, Raffid comes across as an under-a-minute kind of person; I mean come on, sooner or later he's going to come unstuck and get his genitalia used on an SW skeet range If Raffid and Malfus were women, I'd still not consider marrying them because no matter how nice they might look, slobbering bloodhounds don't do it for me, nor people so snobbish that somewhere there is a guillotine with their name on the blade. Yeah. I've felt for years now that Bioware's name no longer makes games an auto-buy for me with how wildly inconsistent they've gotten. TOR took a while to get good, and even now its still horribly disappointing when it comes to gay/bi protagonists, something they'd previously been very good about. I think the Hitlerian (in style, not necessarily mirrored in genocidal sentiment and intent) rants against LGBT content in Star Wars (all the times any angry poster has ever said "We don't need LGBT in SW") and Star Trek (remember the reaction to the Klingon lesbian couple in STO, for example) come naturally to a lot of people whose reptile brains cannot comprehend the notion that said universes aren't as futuristically Old West Leave It To Beaver as their fantasies tell them it is. Because both Star Trek and Star Wars were originally made in 1900-and-frozen-stiff, they were made with the view that they and LGBT were like matter and anti-matter, and is a view that persists today. We know BW's pretty LGBT-inclusive in some other games they make, but it still feels like the universes Star Wars and Star Trek are the last bastions of futuristicly exclusive straight pride, as though there is some notion of uniqueness that prevents any notion of anything LGBT being able to co-exist with said universes and so any such progressive content that is added has been done reluctantly. I don't know this for sure, but it's just my impression; having been formed by hearing a lot of comments to the effect that LGBT and SW/ST don't mix, it feels like a lot of people just cannot or will not, in their minds, reconcile SW/ST and LGBT. If both were invented today, we probably wouldn't have quite such a large section of fans baying for LGBT blood. Edited July 29, 2015 by sentientomega Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChazDoit Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 (edited) No one is going to take your side if you throw insults around. It automatically invalidates your argument, and makes you look like a jerk. Which you are. Luckily Bioware is a good company that has already been pretty open when it came to character sexuality way before internet outrage culture became popular. Devs have been adding same sex romances in their games for years because they felt it was right for their game and their audience, they didn't do it because someone decided to act like a jerk and being really nasty on their forums, that is kind of attitude is going to help nobody. EDIT: In fact I think many people in Bioware are even more passionate about it than gamers on the swtor forum, but I feel their hands have been tied when it came to swtor Edited July 29, 2015 by ChazDoit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sentientomega Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 (edited) I'm sorry if I sounded like a jerk, I'm fairly sure I got carried away a bit, the road to hell being paved with good intentions. If BioWare makes 1-50 SGRs accessible, terrific; if not, no worries because what's never had can hardly be missed, really, even if its absence is regretted. In fact, they haven't been commended enough for taking a different approach in the 55 and beyond material, brief though they may be, those romances are by no means nothing. Any flirt options that come up I've always picked a non-flirt option for the men, even if they means going DS on an LS character or telling Doc to go take a running jump, and will continue to do so. Edited July 29, 2015 by sentientomega Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChazDoit Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Going back to fallout, anyone remembers the perks "Cherchez La Femme" and "Confirmed Bachelor"? Good times. I wished you got more opportunities to use those skills during dialogues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sentientomega Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 What perks were those? Anything like the <This Wasn't in the Brochure!> one for Makeb? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChazDoit Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 What perks were those? Anything like the <This Wasn't in the Brochure!> one for Makeb? "Cherchez La Femme" unlocked female on female flirtation dialogue and "Confirmed Bachelor" unlocked male on male fliration, it was fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sentientomega Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 (edited) Sounds great. It would also encourage people to obtain the achievements, if only for that reason; though I'm sure for plenty of players, such achievements would merely be a bonus. Edited July 29, 2015 by sentientomega Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cythereal Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Bioware's long said no toggle switch, which is what that would amount to in TOR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sentientomega Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Sorry, toggle switch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cythereal Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 (edited) Sorry, toggle switch? It used to be a common idea back before there was any SGR in the game at all that there would be a thing you could set, either in preferences or at character creation, that your character is straight/gay/bi and if you pick gay or straight you simply won't see flirt prompts for the requisite gender at all. Bioware said that no such feature will ever be implemented, especially since almost everyone proposing it was pretty explicit about not wanting to see the slightest hint of homosexuality or that they didn't want their character to think even for a moment about flirting with someone of the same gender. Edited July 29, 2015 by Cythereal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sentientomega Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 (edited) Worrying...were there many players demanding it? Also, how would what I and Chaz be suggesting amount to a sexuality toggle? As I understand it, you can unlock it, but de-unlock it. What am I saying, I misinterpreted Chaz's comment. The number of players not unlocking them due to...issues...could be astronomical...and since we can't hide the OGR possibilities already present... Edited July 29, 2015 by sentientomega Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChazDoit Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Oh, I did not intend to suggest they add such feature in SWTOR, since they don't have "Perks" in the game, the way Fallout does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vadess Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Worrying...were there many players demanding it? There were a few. Bioware's answer was advocating for a toggle was considered discrimination; therefore, anyone caught advocating for it could be banned. Naturally, that advocates were not around for much longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sentientomega Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 (edited) Naturally, that advocates were not around for much longer. Well, of course; their crusade is doomed to failure, they'll no longer be able to convince themselves that if they can make LGBT disappear in SWTOR, they can make it happen IRL. A toggle is totally unnecessary, and this is where it really comes down to it; being afraid of the sight of a flirt option for, say, your male character with that male companion or NPC, you really have to wonder that their real fear is that they'll be unable to resist picking that male/male flirt option, and enjoying the result and the subsequent options. To say nothing of which the notion of a toggle does seem to involve each player who uses it employing marginalisation measures against orientations they don't like, which is an unhealthy habit to promote, to say the least. If they do that, more power to them, because they just got over any difficulties concerning being themselves; if they don't, and then rail about it on here to the effect that they'll leave if so much as an LGBT gust of wind should blow in their direction, one can only conclude that mean-mindedness prevails in their thinking, given they'd happily deny everyone an option, which frankly isn't harming them, for no better reason than they're uncomfortable with it and thus nobody else should be able to do it. It all comes down to personal insecurities... And that especially applies to the notion that Star Wars and Star Trek (there was a furore over lesbian Klingons in Star Trek Online) be made strictly straight-only, like that poster in the Companion SGR thread who said they knew Star Wars and compared it and LGBT to matter and anti-matter by implication. It does not begin to make any conceivable sense... Star Wars, Star Trek, and any sci-fi universe would be utter black holes if they failed to realise that any galaxy cannot be unequivocally 100% straight; they'd be like incomplete symphonies, or any other unfinished work. I have to wonder whether those objecting to LGBT and their sci-fi fantasy universe being mixed are afraid that their carefully ordered straightdom would inevitably be found wanting. Like "Oh we can accept all manner of strange and even conceptually alien concepts but LGBT? Z**** AAAAAARRRRRGGGGHHHHH!" As I said, it doesn't make any sense to think any sci-fi futuristic universe would marginalise LGBT arbitrarily, regardless of how many decades ago such environments were devised. Anyway, it seems as though, 1-50 story aside, LGBT is here to stay, as it should've been from day beta. And I cannot stress this enough, no-one's characters are being pounced upon by LGBT peeps; no SGR dialogue is being forced upon anyone, which is more than can be said for some OGR options I've come across. Edited July 30, 2015 by sentientomega Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saelinne Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 (edited) I am hoping they choose to go with DA 2 way and make all the companions ''player sexual'' (I don't believe they were all bi) since it will give us the most options and I never understood why some people are so against how DA2 did romances. Or if not that I am hoping for how Inquisition did it - let us flirt with whoever we wish to. Mind you that may lead to nothing else but a rude answer (and of course after that answer allow us to fry their *** as we may be Sith:). Edited July 30, 2015 by Saelinne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cythereal Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Star Wars, Star Trek, and any sci-fi universe would be utter black holes if they failed to realise that any galaxy cannot be unequivocally 100% straight; they'd be like incomplete symphonies, or any other unfinished work. I have to wonder whether those objecting to LGBT and their sci-fi fantasy universe being mixed are afraid that their carefully ordered straightdom would inevitably be found wanting. Like "Oh we can accept all manner of strange and even conceptually alien concepts but LGBT? Z**** AAAAAARRRRRGGGGHHHHH!" As I said, it doesn't make any sense to think any sci-fi futuristic universe would marginalise LGBT arbitrarily, regardless of how many decades ago such environments were devised. Fun fact: Warhammer 40k, home of the catholic space nazis, has more canon LGBT characters than Star Wars and Star Trek combined. Still, the deafening silence from Bioware on this even now is worrying. I fear they're going to fall back into old TOR habits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flumfsushi Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 (edited) I remember the fervor surrounding the er, what do Klingons call marriage in Star Trek? Well the married Klingon lesbian couple in STO. Many of the arguments some people had against them being in the game were downright facepalm worthy, while other comments had me sitting there blinking while I tried to figure out if I was really seeing what I was reading. One post that stood out was someone saying that he would have to screen all of Cryptic's story content from then on before he allowed his kids to play it in order to shield them from such ideas, something to that effect anyway. That post was alittle disturbing? disconcerting? I'm not sure what word to use but it bothered me. I had thought acceptance of people's ideological, spiritual, physical, and moral differences as well as life choices was supposed to be a big thing in Star Trek. I guess some didn't get that particular message. Edited July 30, 2015 by flumfsushi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zandilar Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 I remember the fervor surrounding the er, what do Klingons call marriage in Star Trek? Well the married Klingon lesbian couple in STO. Many of the arguments some people had against them being in the game were downright facepalm worthy, while other comments had me sitting there blinking while I tried to figure out if I was really seeing what I was reading. I'm curious. Just how important were those ladies to the storyline? I stopped playing STO a long time ago, like a few months after release... But I have considered patching up and going back now it's f2p. I had thought acceptance of people's ideological, spiritual, physical, and moral differences as well as life choices was supposed to be a big thing in Star Trek. I guess some didn't get that particular message. The Star Trek team never seemed to get it... At least not their TV and Film people, the books seemed to have a lot more latitude to include LGBT people... but we never did really get to see them on screen except in the most salacious and exploitative manner. (Someone will correct me if I'm wrong, I'm sure.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cythereal Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 (edited) I'm curious. Just how important were those ladies to the storyline? I stopped playing STO a long time ago, like a few months after release... But I have considered patching up and going back now it's f2p. Very minor. The one helps you out in a couple stories and offhandedly mentions her spouse as "she", and in one of the new missions she shows up again briefly with her wife. Also, don't bother. The game's gone completely to crap since Delta Rising turned it into a pay to win grindfest. Edited July 30, 2015 by Cythereal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ershiin Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 I am hoping they choose to go with DA 2 way and make all the companions ''player sexual'' (I don't believe they were all bi) since it will give us the most options and I never understood why some people are so against how DA2 did romances. Or if not that I am hoping for how Inquisition did it - let us flirt with whoever we wish to. Mind you that may lead to nothing else but a rude answer (and of course after that answer allow us to fry their *** as we may be Sith:). The flirting dialogue in Inquisition was the best thing... xD Definitely think that even if the people our chars flirt with arent interested, it should be up to the player if their char is. I mean, I'd have my sorc hit on Khem just to see how he'd react if it was an option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbsolutGrndZero Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 There were a few. Bioware's answer was advocating for a toggle was considered discrimination; therefore, anyone caught advocating for it could be banned. Naturally, that advocates were not around for much longer. Yep, I even got a warning on my account near the very end of the open beta for saying not nice things to the fellow member of the same religion as me that was advocating for a toggle in the most highly bigoted and offensive way. Basically told her that people like her give people me a bad name. She either reported me, or a moderator saw it anyway and I got a warning. It's still on my account, even after the beta forums purge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sentientomega Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 (edited) same religion as me that was advocating for a toggle in the most highly bigoted and offensive way. Same religion or not, reporting the post for hate speech would've been appropriate, most likely. Also, don't bother. The game's gone completely to crap since Delta Rising turned it into a pay to win grindfest. Not having played it for quite some time (pre-Delta Rising), how so pay-to-win grindfest? Also, I could never get my head around this game's playability, unlike swtor. Guides are almost non-existent, and the existing ones don't help much at all. Fun fact: Warhammer 40k, home of the catholic space nazis, has more canon LGBT characters than Star Wars and Star Trek combined. Why am I not at all surprised at this...? Still, the deafening silence from Bioware on this even now is worrying. I fear they're going to fall back into old TOR habits. Or they might be stealth-inserting it, they way they usually do with changes that may not be that well received; except I think there is less opposition to it, plus the fact that it's already been in means there is little basis for simply cutting off a connection between Theron/Lana and the player. Perhaps that is just wishful thinking on my part... Edited August 2, 2015 by sentientomega Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flumfsushi Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 (edited) Not having played it for quite some time (pre-Delta Rising), how so pay-to-win grindfest? Also, I could never get my head around this game's playability, unlike swtor. Guides are almost non-existent, and the existing ones don't help much at all. PvP is certainly P2W but the pve content isn't. My alts in STO typically only use the free T5 ships they got at level 40 with MK 12 gear I got them off the exchange (the games auction house) and I don't have much trouble in level 60 group content on normal or advanced difficulty. The only noticable difference between my main and alts is the alts ships are squishier but the damage is still survivable. I don't really do any of the group content on elite since its just the same missions as normal and advanced with more hp to burn through, I think there might be one mission that is elite difficulty only but I don't think there is any story signifigance to it. PvE is only pay to win if you want to take min/max to an extreme. The game is grindy but then what mmo isn't? Edited August 2, 2015 by flumfsushi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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