Smash isn't that bad

[Masarko]

My sent has 109% Force Critical Multiplier, 1045 Force Bonus Damage and the only ones i crit 9k on is people in leveling greens

[TonyDragonflame]

No one single strike or heal in game dont must hit more than 5k. Period.

[CharlieMitchell]

To smash, a jugg needs:

enrage (1x every 40 secs) - auto full crit

crush (3x / min) - needs to tick 4 secs, then auto full crit, can be cleansed - resulting in a weaker smash depending on how fast you cleanse

choke (1x / min) - needs to tick 3 secs, can be interrupted or trinketed resulting in a weaker smash depending on how fast you stop it

 

Only one of those things is automatic and doesn't require the jugg to be dancing at melee range 3-4 secs prior to the smash.

 

A sentinel needs the same except he can replace the enrage req with using zen if his centering is at 30 stacks which requires a lot of melee abilities being fired or the use of valorous call which can be done 1x per 2.75 min.

 

This. Times 100.

[Aetideus]

Add Force crush to the Smash and it's ~3k each with absolutely no counter (Smash has a counter for Sentinel/Marauder and Shadow/Assassin, at least in one spec)

3k + 3.5~6k = 6.5~9k, each.

 

That's instant-death for anyone.

 

Happens every day and peeps try to explain, what?

Edited January 25, 2013 by Aetideus

[CharlieMitchell]

Add Force crush to the Smash and it's ~3k each with absolutely no counter (Smash has a counter for Sentinel/Marauder and Shadow/Assassin, at least in one spec)

3k + 3.5~6k = 6.5~9k, each.

 

That's instant-death for anyone.

 

Force crush doesn't do even close to 3k damage. And regardless its damage is done over about 4 seconds. You're just looking for things to complain about now.

[foxmob]

Once again, please explain how a dps spec requiring special treatment to the point where it's necessary to target mark them and focus all your taunts and control on them is balanced.

 

it's ridiculously easy for a smasher to catch 3 targets grouped up cuz the entire game is melee heavy (and melee will also be near healers, either to taunt or attack).

 

however, the quoted part above is pretty commonplace. taunts should always go out to the top dpsers on the other team (or whomever you're peeling for). so what he described there is not special/unique/unusual from a strategiy perspective.

[WaywardOne]

Add Force crush to the Smash and it's ~3k each with absolutely no counter (Smash has a counter for Sentinel/Marauder and Shadow/Assassin, at least in one spec)

3k + 3.5~6k = 6.5~9k, each.

 

That's instant-death for anyone.

 

Crush can be cleansed and takes 4 or 5 secs to do its damage. Are you saying 3 juggs charge in, hit enrage, smash and then crush? Or what's the order...

[Yeochins]

Crush can be cleansed and takes 4 or 5 secs to do its damage. Are you saying 3 juggs charge in, hit enrage, smash and then crush? Or what's the order...

 

I've played Rage on my Juggernaught and Marauder, as well as Carnage, Vengeance and Annihilation.

 

Rage in a normal warzones is insanely overpowered because the other side may not have a healer. Even if they do you can be smart about how you use force-crush. Apply it on another warrior, or any advanced class which does not have purge. Furthermore you place it on someone you don't intend to smash..

 

Find someone solo on the outer-fringes of the fight, place force crush + ravage, then jump to some unsuspecting person whose grouped up and smash.

[Enexemander]

You can also just hit enrage and get your max smash instantly if you're that worried about it.

[antiheroxi]

it's ridiculously easy for a smasher to catch 3 targets grouped up cuz the entire game is melee heavy (and melee will also be near healers, either to taunt or attack).

 

however, the quoted part above is pretty commonplace. taunts should always go out to the top dpsers on the other team (or whomever you're peeling for). so what he described there is not special/unique/unusual from a strategiy perspective.

 

there's no true pvp game I know of that doesn't have a couple truly powerful aoe classes. Daoc had pbae bombs, and aoe casting nightmares but you learned to take out the wizards first, warhammer bright wizards, shadowbane had some nasty aoe, hell even age of conan had some bad aoe moments.

 

And your taunt should be used on a dps... Its what its for and all dps, should have something about them that makes them a vital threat to eliminate quickly. If not then it's a healing and tank game with a bunch of limp noodles running around. I am baffled why you think a class or spec designed to destroy shouldn't destroy... But fine fix smash and up single target specs so the threat and pressure is still there or else there's no point.

[VbNAsrikk]

my main is a jugg and i think it needs a nerf. nerf rage and buff veng.

 

but then people will complain about veng... i was talking to my buddy the other day about this he said they would prolly nerf smash and buff force scream... even though i think this idea would be AMAZING i still dont think people would like it...

[Darth-Rammstein]

Add Force crush to the Smash and it's ~3k each with absolutely no counter (Smash has a counter for Sentinel/Marauder and Shadow/Assassin, at least in one spec)

3k + 3.5~6k = 6.5~9k, each.

 

That's instant-death for anyone.

 

Lol, just about everyone has more than twice that hp...how is that instant death?

[LogicalPremise]

5m radius on the attack so 10m circle. A patient Smasher should be able to get 3 opponents on most teams, even the really good ones, that aren't spending 100% of their efforts trying to avoid Smashes.

 

Once again, please explain how a dps spec requiring special treatment to the point where it's necessary to target mark them and focus all your taunts and control on them is balanced.

 

Not saying it's balanced against individuals, but that if people WORK TOGETHER as a , you know, TEAM, they can be mitigated and made less effective.

 

The problem is not smashers it's pugs not even taking simple easy measures to make sure that they don't crush half the team. I don't like proposing solutions that clearly aren't going to be addressed. We've complained about stuns and resolve for a long time and that hasn't been fixed, and I doubt smash will either. People need to learn to react smarter.

 

If taunts, pulls, bubbles and other defenses aren't going up against high threat targets -- be that a smashtard or a PT -- then defeat happens. If people are letting the enemy healers freecast because they're derping around all attacking the one commando and they get smash-tarded to death by doing so, that doesn't help either.

 

Not saying at ALL that my methods will stop them or that it's not a problem, but that people aren't even TRYING to mitigate the issues caused by the smash.

[Zataos]

Haha, the OP is trying to be funny, or so it seems, hey guys, if you see a Rage Jugg everybody stop and focus him and his 4 other clones that are in nearly every match.

 

Rage needs a nerf more than any class spec in SWTOR's brief history, I've pvped since beta and nothing since has been this unbalanced, best single damage ability in the game, oh scratch that, you can do that damage to 5 players at once, uninterpretable, and usable every 15 secs or so, no skill or setup required, on a class that has a ton of utility, has the best maneuverability and has heavy armor, yeah, its fine.

 

The only thing that makes it livable is that most people that play it are bad players to begin with.

Edited January 26, 2013 by Zataos

[ObscureKnight]

I love how people say bubble, as a sorc / sage the bubble is useless when dealing with the monkeys. I take one hit bam bubble gone, second is smash, bam I am dead. Rez repeat. In the mean time I hope to heal my guys, but to hell with that I have this damn smashtard on me like glue. (Yes I understand the use of a team, but at that point you are all dead so what does it matter?) I am in full WH gear, and trying to grind elite WH gear to compensate, but it is obvious by the shear number of threads on this issue not one bioware dev plays a sage/ sorc at all in 50 pvp. So, yes I agree with the OP that this effect needs to be nerfed, and my suggestions is a damn good CD on it. since I have seen first hand on the void star I get one who will smash me, then wait for me near the gate to get me again, I will literally get 5 m out the gate then bam dead. How the hell am I supposed to grind with that type of grief going on?

 

Even if I could bubble every few seconds it would be hard to make any progress and PVP has lost its interest at that point. Just to preempt the griefers I like good fights that come down to the wire, that is fun pvp. I love it when I am not sure who is going to live or die, including me and I don't mind losing to good people who know how to fight. I do hate the times where all you face is the same team over and over full of the smash group and you make a few hundred coms in several hours and it takes 2 weeks to get the weekly done. You can just forget trying to grind EWH at that point.

 

Again I truly believe that not one BW dev has played a warzone and seen what is being discussed here as just a normal players that we are. I also don't think they will ever address it.

 

*edited due to using wrong tense on a word.

Edited January 26, 2013 by ObscureKnight

[Currok]

The only thing annoying about smash is level 49 juggs/guardians getting into lowbieis pvp and smashing the whole time for 6k crits....was in a match with a Mara the other day that did 450k dmg the other day our whole team could barely take him out.

[Savej]

I love how people say bubble, as a sorc / sage the bubble is useless when dealing with the monkeys...

 

If you aren't 50 and you try to take a 50 in pvp that's what happens.

 

If you want me to read your post or take it remotely seriously, tone down the hyperbole (or remove it).

 

I've been in too many wzs and fought too many sorcs - the good ones do not die quickly. Bubbles effectively add ~4k to your health - if you die in 3 secs with 24-25k health then you're getting focus fired. If you don't have 20-21k health then you're not using optimal gear and you're going to lose to someone that does.

Edited January 26, 2013 by Savej

[ObscureKnight]

If you aren't 50 and you try to take a 50 in pvp that's what happens.

 

If you want me read your post or take it remotely seriously, tone down the hyperbole (or remove it).

 

I've been in too many wzs and fought too many sorcs - the good ones do not die quickly. Bubbles effectively add ~4k to your health - if you die in 3 secs with 24-25k health then you're getting focus fired. If you don't have 20-21k health then you're not using optimal gear and you're going to lose to someone that does.

 

Can you explain how it adds 4k? I have never seen a sage / sorc at the health you are claiming.

[Carter_Mathis]

Can you explain how it adds 4k? I have never seen a sage / sorc at the health you are claiming.

 

Bubbles prevent about 4k damage, which is why he is arguing that it adds 4k health. Now he's entirely forgetting the 3 seconds of downtime that everyone within 5 meters of you are forced to wait because of bubble stun, allowing you to be healed or run/kite, which is why a bubble stun is more like a second lease on life.

And for smash needing a nerf, I did 1.1k dps in my 3rd wz as smash, it needs a nerf.

[Savej]

Bubbles prevent about 4k damage, which is why he is arguing that it adds 4k health. Now he's entirely forgetting the 3 seconds of downtime that everyone within 5 meters of you are forced to wait because of bubble stun, allowing you to be healed or run/kite, which is why a bubble stun is more like a second lease on life.

And for smash needing a nerf, I did 1.1k dps in my 3rd wz as smash, it needs a nerf.

 

Not all bubbles are stun bubbles. Regular bubbles minimize the damage of a single smasher by quite a bit.

 

1.1k dps? That's really good. I've only seen that in premades vs teams full of healers. Very few smashers do that... It definitely doesn't happen every day on my server. Maybe you need a nerf?

Edited January 26, 2013 by Savej

[MusicRider]

A sentinel needs the same except he can replace the enrage req with using zen if his centering is at 30 stacks which requires a lot of melee abilities being fired or the use of valorous call which can be done 1x per 2.75 min.

4 vicious slashes at 2.8k crit (and often crit due to 15% crit bonus) and throw somewhere there a battering assault and have zen again + smash ready due to reduced cooldown from slash, obliterate also ready for the crit proc, soooooooo. after 9 secs I can SMASH again, hell yeah. Rinse, repeat.

[Greeve]

Once again, please explain how a dps spec requiring special treatment to the point where it's necessary to target mark them and focus all your taunts and control on them is balanced.

 

Uhhh you mark healers and try to kill them first....I'm not seeing the problem here.

 

Also, if you're getting hit by 9k smashes you might want to put on some better gear. The only people getting hit for 9k id imagine are fresh 50s in all greens who were too stupid to save up some coms while leveling up.

[Carter_Mathis]

Not all bubbles are stun bubbles. Regular bubbles minimize the damage of a single smasher by quite a bit.

 

1.1k dps? That's really good. I've only seen that in premades vs teams full of healers. Very few smashers do that... It definitely doesn't happen every day on my server. Maybe you need a nerf?

 

My biggest issue is that smash has about 4 moves that can hit from 4.5k-5k+. SMASH, Blade Storm, Dispatch, and the last hit of Master Strike are all really powerful moves (way stronger than what I have on my scrapper), and energy management isn't really even an issue. My experience has been that I just jump into a group and smash, then use my other big moves until smash is back, then I win at dps.

Probably the most annoying thing is that I've already beaten the top dps that I've pulled as a scrapper (920) and the highest damage (775k in VS) within the first day of playing derp smash, which really just proves that a good scrapper is equal to any other good dps class who isn't trying as hard.

[MidichIorian]

Uhhh you mark healers and try to kill them first....I'm not seeing the problem here..

There are between 4 and 7 problems in every warzone, depending on whether you are solo queueing or in a premade.

[Greeve]

There are between 4 and 7 problems in every warzone, depending on whether you are solo queueing or in a premade.

 

Made up stats are made up. I was in a wz the other day where everyone else on my side with a SIN except me, and everyone on the other team was a shadow/sage except for one smuggler...i've been in many war zones where there were alot of warrior types (alot of whom may or may not have been smash spec) and in many war zones where there were less then alot. Just because you say this is what you see, doesnt mean its true no matter how hard you want it to be. And no matter how many whiners in this thread will agree with you and call me a retard, I don't really care because most of these people have terrible rationale for their arguments and dont realize how stupid they sound.