A case for a more robust preferred status

[Ratajack]

This thread is to discuss the issues raise in the original post, mainly permanent unlocks to credit cap, support for preferred, and unlocks to the medical probes. If you want to discuss any additional permanent unlocks, please make a new thread.

 

As it stands, unlocking these would not be close to having a lifetime subscription. Again, to make the same argument that I made, a lifetime subscription is a 1 time payment, everything after that is taken care or. In this case, preferred customers would have to keep on paying for OP/WZ/FP access, every single week. This is not a lifetime sub. Furthermore, we would pay for content updates. No matter what the price is, we would pay for it. Again, this is not a lifetime subscription in any sense.

 

Although the three issues you raised in the original post were customer support, permanent medical probe unlock and a permanent unlock to the credit limit cap, you were the one that stated that you wanted to see permanent unlocks for FP's, WZ's and OP's in a subsequent post. Allow me to refresh your memory.

 

Do you also want a permanant unlock for warzones, Flashpoints etc?

 

Actually, yes I would, but one thing at a time. Other games sell full access to particular instances, or group of instances. I think this system works very well, especially as they start to add more and more instances. When you have 20-30 instances in your game, you can start to see large payouts by selling permanent access to individual instances, or again, selling them in groups.

 

You have also repeatedly said that you believe that preferred players should have access to the ENTIRE game. If a preferred player has access to the entire game, what is left for subscribers? Why should anyone subscribe if they can get everything as a preferred player?

 

I pay a subscription fee every month. This gives me access to the entire game, even those features I never use. I do not do WZ's, or space missions. I tried them on my first character and was not overly impressed, so I never did any on any other character. I do few enough OP's that if I had to pay a weekly fee to unlock those, it would be still be cheaper not to sub. I do enough FP's that I would buy that unlock every week, if I were not a subscriber. My subscription fee also removes the credit limit cap, the commendation cap and access to all the other little unlocks, although like you I've also already unlocked them. I chose to do that so that I still have things like the hide head slot, unify colors, etc. in case I ever dropped to preferred status. Given that I've already unlocked all the little things, if I could unlock FP's, OP's, medical probes, credit limit cap and commendation cap, I would never have to pay another cent to continue playing as I am now. That sure sounds almost like a lifetime subscription to me.

Edited January 20, 2013 by Ratajack

[CKNORTH]

To be honest if your going to play preferred its more of a sense to play for fun as a hobbie, you don't need the same gear nor the same amount of instances/ops/pvp it's with a casual mindset you play. As for credit cap I can see it annoying I have voiced opinions to remove it, but once you get a character to 50 spend an hour doing daily's and just watch the GTN there isn't anything you can't get for FREE other then time spent playing the game.

 

Edit: you probably never played EQ during early years but you had to be freaking dang resorcefull to get anywhere, that's what made it Fun to play hehe.

Edited January 20, 2013 by CKNORTH

[leojreimroc]

Although the three issues you raised in the original post were customer support, permanent medical probe unlock and a permanent unlock to the credit limit cap, you were the one that stated that you wanted to see permanent unlocks for FP's, WZ's and OP's in a subsequent post. Allow me to refresh your memory.

 

 

 

 

 

You have also repeatedly said that you believe that preferred players should have access to the ENTIRE game. If a preferred player has access to the entire game, what is left for subscribers? Why should anyone subscribe if they can get everything as a preferred player?

 

I pay a subscription fee every month. This gives me access to the entire game, even those features I never use. I do not do WZ's, or space missions. I tried them on my first character and was not overly impressed, so I never did any on any other character. I do few enough OP's that if I had to pay a weekly fee to unlock those, it would be still be cheaper not to sub. I do enough FP's that I would buy that unlock every week, if I were not a subscriber. My subscription fee also removes the credit limit cap, the commendation cap and access to all the other little unlocks, although like you I've also already unlocked them. I chose to do that so that I still have things like the hide head slot, unify colors, etc. in case I ever dropped to preferred status. Given that I've already unlocked all the little things, if I could unlock FP's, OP's, medical probes, credit limit cap and commendation cap, I would never have to pay another cent to continue playing as I am now. That sure sounds almost like a lifetime subscription to me.

 

You do not need to refresh my memory. I know what my views are. Another of my views is that cherry pie is superior to apple pie, but I don't need to argue all of my views on every subject here now do I?

 

No matter what my other views on other unlocks are, this thread is about credit cap/support/medical probes. Again, if you want to discuss other unlocks (which I will be glad to do), please start another thread. Your argument is not on topic.

 

On topic, a credit cap unlock, as well as medical probes would not constitute a lifetime subscription, period.

Edited January 20, 2013 by leojreimroc

[Ratajack]

You do not need to refresh my memory. I know what my views are. Another of my views is that cherry pie is superior to apple pie, but I don't need to argue all of my views on every subject here now do I?

 

No matter what my other views on other unlocks are, this thread is about credit cap/support/medical probes. Again, if you want to discuss other unlocks (which I will be glad to do), please start another thread. Your argument is not on topic.

 

On topic, a credit cap unlock, as well as medical probes would not constitute a lifetime subscription, period.

 

If I could unlock medical probes and permanently remove the credit limit cap and I never had to pay another cent to play the game, how would I not have what basically amounts to a lifetime subscription?

[Tumedus]

If I could unlock medical probes and permanently remove the credit limit cap and I never had to pay another cent to play the game, how would I not have what basically amounts to a lifetime subscription?

How many times does it need to be said? You would still have limited FP, Ops, WZ, and space missions every week.

You would still have reduced xp, reduced valor gain, higher cost nearly everything, finite respecs (cost prohibitive), reduced crafting efficiency, limited mailing and inability to mail credits, 2 hour QT, no fleet pass, later non-legacy mount access and some other minor drawbacks.

Edited January 20, 2013 by Tumedus

[CKNORTH]

How many times does it need to be said? You would still have limited FP, Ops, WZ, and space missions every week.

You would still have reduced xp, reduced valor gain, higher cost nearly everything, finite respecs (cost prohibitive), reduced crafting efficiency, limited mailing and inability to mail credits, 2 hour QT, no fleet pass, later non-legacy mount access and some other minor drawbacks.

 

Even with those restrictions I'm still debating going preferred, with a ton of other free games I'm playing now. I can enjoy as little or as much as I want regardless, I know the game well enough to still have fun. Which seems to have gotten lost somewhere in the years of mmo gaming for most people.....

[Edzew]

If I could unlock medical probes and permanently remove the credit limit cap and I never had to pay another cent to play the game, how would I not have what basically amounts to a lifetime subscription?

 

you truly are a mongoloid troll. here is an example of not understanding what people are saying and not listening to what they are saying.

 

and read the post right below yours, take your time and read every word, read it nice and slow and try and let it settle in your brain... then think about what it said and read it again. maybe just maybe then you will get it and understand.

[leojreimroc]

you truly are a mongoloid troll. here is an example of not understanding what people are saying and not listening to what they are saying.

 

and read the post right below yours, take your time and read every word, read it nice and slow and try and let it settle in your brain... then think about what it said and read it again. maybe just maybe then you will get it and understand.

 

Yep, that last comment pretty much confirms it. Nice of him to keep bumping the thread though.

 

 

How many times does it need to be said? You would still have limited FP, Ops, WZ, and space missions every week.

You would still have reduced xp, reduced valor gain, higher cost nearly everything, finite respecs (cost prohibitive), reduced crafting efficiency, limited mailing and inability to mail credits, 2 hour QT, no fleet pass, later non-legacy mount access and some other minor drawbacks.

 

You also forgot the most important one. Future content has to be payed for.

Edited January 20, 2013 by leojreimroc

[Ratajack]

How many times does it need to be said? You would still have limited FP, Ops, WZ, and space missions every week.

You would still have reduced xp, reduced valor gain, higher cost nearly everything, finite respecs (cost prohibitive), reduced crafting efficiency, limited mailing and inability to mail credits, 2 hour QT, no fleet pass, later non-legacy mount access and some other minor drawbacks.

 

The reduced xp doesnt bother me, I've never been in a hurry to hit 50 on any of my characters. Reduced valor and limited WZ's mean absolutely nothing to me since I don't do WZ's. I don't do space missions either, so that limit doesn't bother me. I'd have to cut back on my FP's, but all my characters already have speeder training and are over level 25 so the speeder is a non issue for me. I can live with the lack of a fleet pass, since I almost never use it, and I rarely use QT except just before I log, so that would not really bother me either. I can still send items one at a time in the mail, but not credits. That is no big deal to me.

 

Nothing you've mentioned would really bother me if I went preferred, as long as I had no credit cap. If I had no credit cap, I would never have to pay another cent to play. That would in effect give me a lifetime subscription. That is only me, but I'm sure there are others like me.

 

The credit cap and all the other benefits subscribers get need to stay limited to subscribers.

[Ratajack]

Yep, that last comment pretty much confirms it. Nice of him to keep bumping the thread though.

 

 

 

 

You also forgot the most important one. Future content has to be payed for.

 

You are assuming that EA is going to charge for all future content and that all preferred players will pay for all future content. I'm sure that not everyone is going to purchase every bit of future content.

 

We're never going to agree on the lifetime subscription issue, so I'll let that drop.

 

You are still asking for two of the biggest motives to sub to be removed because you don't like them. They inconvenience you. Those two items may well be the major reasons some people sub. I know the credit cap is a factor in why I continue to sub. If they allowed a credit limit unlock and a medical probe unlock, I'm sure they would lose a lot of subs, since it would be cheaper to pay a one time fee to unlock them than to pay a monthly sub.

 

Don't even try to tell me that those players would ultimately spend more than a subscriber. I'm not an idiot. Why would anyone in their right mind pay MORE for something they can get for less? Nor do I think you are an idiot. I doubt that you want to see those restrictions lifted so you can spend more money than if you subscribed. I'm pretty sure you know that it will save you a lot of money if they remove those restrictions. I've already shown how some of the proposed costs for these unlocks are actually cheaper than subscribing. If you really want to spend more money than a subscription would cost, then please, subscribe and send me the difference. I'll give you my address.

[leojreimroc]

It would be nice if Bioware gave an update about what kind of unlocks are expected to be released in the market. I wouldn't mind knowing if a credit cap unlock and a permanent medical probe unlock is at least on the table, if it's being considered at all.

[PlasmaJohn]

Don't even try to tell me that those players would ultimately spend more than a subscriber. I'm not an idiot. Why would anyone in their right mind pay MORE for something they can get for less?

There are all sorts of factors involved here. What's the average length of a subscription? My SWAG is 3 months (those that have been here for a year offset by those that left within the first month or two). So your average subscriber spends $45. How much does your average preferred player pay? If they go for all of the permanent unlocks, that's about $60.

 

The thing is that a well done F2P program attracts a lot more people. If the ratio of preferred players spending $60 to subs hits 2 to 1, then you need your average sub length to hit 8 months to match it. A well done program can easily attract that many new customers and I'd SWAG a 3x or 4x multiple can be achieved.

 

It's the old pre-recorded videotape story: Studios only thought they'd sell to movie rental stores (Blockbuster) and videophile collectors so they set the price at 80USD. One studio priced a movie at 25USD and sales exploded (10:1 or better multiple) and the retail pre-rec market was born.

 

edit: math fail

Edited January 23, 2013 by PlasmaJohn

[leojreimroc]

There are all sorts of factors involved here. What's the average length of a subscription? My SWAG is 3 months (those that have been here for a year offset by those that left within the first month or two). So your average subscriber spends $45. How much does your average preferred player pay? If they go for all of the permanent unlocks, that's about $60.

 

The thing is that a well done F2P program attracts a lot more people. If the ratio of preferred players spending $60 to subs hits 2 to 1, then you need your average sub length to hit 8 months to match it. A well done program can easily attract that many new customers and I'd SWAG a 3x or 4x multiple can be achieved.

 

It's the old pre-recorded videotape story: Studios only thought they'd sell to movie rental stores (Blockbuster) and videophile collectors so they set the price at 80USD. One studio priced a movie at 25USD and sales exploded (10:1 or better multiple) and the retail pre-rec market was born.

 

edit: math fail

 

You pretty much hit the nail on the head right there concerning which group spends more money. It's all about barrier of entry. A better f2p/preferred system attracts much more people, and keeps them longer because they're never really gone. If I stop playing tomorrow, I am much more likely to come back in 2-3 months if there's no cost to coming back, and if everything I bought is still there. I am also much more likely to spend money if I come back (obviously).

 

There's a reason I don't go back to great games like FFXI and WoW. I would love to try those games again, but I don't feel like starting to pay a sub just to try them again. With other games like LOTRO and GW2, I log on from time to time and......"oh, look at that new item/unlock in the store. I think I'll buy it" That's the key to a good f2p model.

 

Without having Bioware's sales figures, I am still pretty confident that the cartel market is making a lot of money, at the very least at a comparable rate than sub fees (I think they even surpass sub fees). Anything to encourage more people to play and keep playing as preferred would be good, and getting rid of the credit cap is one step towards that goal.

Edited January 24, 2013 by leojreimroc

[Prysha]

What swag? learn to talk ...

 

And no .. the average subscriber plays long long time , makes many alts and buy also from cartel markt...

ive never played a game under a half year...i played 1 Year STO for fun... then ive played a half year Champions online... not to mention all those other games i played before...

 

now im already starting my 3rd month and im pretty sure il be here long time...

[mothear]

What swag? learn to talk ...

 

And no .. the average subscriber plays long long time , makes many alts and buy also from cartel markt...

ive never played a game under a half year...i played 1 Year STO for fun... then ive played a half year Champions online... not to mention all those other games i played before...

 

now im already starting my 3rd month and im pretty sure il be here long time...

 

Not true in this game, unfortunately, but to be fair this has more to do with the length of time the game has been available.

[tXHereticXt]

Things that bug me is their balance of pricing and, lets be honest, the over all lack of incentives that originally came out with the launch of the game. There just wasn't much. Don't get me started on Unify Colors, it was a stupid mechanic to begin with where I had been hoping to color individual pieces on my own with a set RBG panel so I wouldn't have the issues that made me dislike UC (colors not aligning properly to the chest) to begin with.

 

If the prices were adjusted and unlocks were account-wide instead of character, that would be a good start. Unify Colors, Credit caps, Epic gear privileges, chat... I pre-ordered the game on the second day of the release of the notification and in addition it was the Collectors Edition yet when the shift to F2P occurred I felt stabbed. An attempt to rip me off occurred and that's initially what made me log-off within five minutes of returning to check it out.

 

Now let me be clear, a lot has changed since their launch of F2P and most for the better. It's got a long ways to go but I just hoped games like Guild Wars 2 or, the now deceased, City of Heroes would be perfect role models of how a decent F2P market would/could work. IMO, Bioware tried too hard to find what little they had to portray as incentives for subs which weren't compelling to begin with.

 

There are all sorts of factors involved here. What's the average length of a subscription? My SWAG is 3 months (those that have been here for a year offset by those that left within the first month or two). So your average subscriber spends $45. How much does your average preferred player pay? If they go for all of the permanent unlocks, that's about $60.

 

The thing is that a well done F2P program attracts a lot more people. If the ratio of preferred players spending $60 to subs hits 2 to 1, then you need your average sub length to hit 8 months to match it. A well done program can easily attract that many new customers and I'd SWAG a 3x or 4x multiple can be achieved.

 

It's the old pre-recorded videotape story: Studios only thought they'd sell to movie rental stores (Blockbuster) and videophile collectors so they set the price at 80USD. One studio priced a movie at 25USD and sales exploded (10:1 or better multiple) and the retail pre-rec market was born.

 

edit: math fail

 

My sentiments exactly. That intial launch of the new model was terrible and in some ways even as a new player coming to TOR, why should they even bother with the limitations. GW2 on the other hand gives you everything you need with cosmetics or boosters being in the store, but you got everything to play the game for the price of the package without a sub model. I do hope TOR gets there but someone working the market strategies isn't experienced enough for my liking.

[leojreimroc]

The last patch was a step in the right direction for the medical probes at least. They are now considerably cheaper. A permanent unlock is still needed though. Even though they're cheap now, you still have to pay to res on the spot every time you die, and that is pretty bad in games. Actually, I would be happy if they would at least reset every day, so you would get 1+ medical probe per day, or per hour, with a cap.

[Gavin_Kelvar]

So I just resubbed after letting it lapse for a week/two weeks because work was going to keep me pretty busy during that time. Prior to letting my sub lapse I had ~210 Daily comms, resubbed and I still only have what Preferred status allowed me to have (175 Daily comms). Put in a ticket but we'll see if they can or will restore the missing comms.

 

For one thing it's ridiculous that the Preferred status limitations can cause a subscriber loose stuff they earned while subbed just because the sub lapsed. For another it's even more stupid that it appears one needs to submit a ticket to try to recover items that Preferred status restrictions took away. In that regard they need to at minimum put in a commendation escrow function just like with credits. That being said I still think a commendation cap unlock is a good thing and honestly if they sold it I'd be tempted to buy it just to ensure I don't ever have to worry about permanently loosing commendations again.

[leojreimroc]

So I just resubbed after letting it lapse for a week/two weeks because work was going to keep me pretty busy during that time. Prior to letting my sub lapse I had ~210 Daily comms, resubbed and I still only have what Preferred status allowed me to have (175 Daily comms). Put in a ticket but we'll see if they can or will restore the missing comms.

 

For one thing it's ridiculous that the Preferred status limitations can cause a subscriber loose stuff they earned while subbed just because the sub lapsed. For another it's even more stupid that it appears one needs to submit a ticket to try to recover items that Preferred status restrictions took away. In that regard they need to at minimum put in a commendation escrow function just like with credits. That being said I still think a commendation cap unlock is a good thing and honestly if they sold it I'd be tempted to buy it just to ensure I don't ever have to worry about permanently loosing commendations again.

 

I have to agree that the commendation limitation is really strange. I hope they implement an unlockable purchase for those as well.

[Gavin_Kelvar]

I have to agree that the commendation limitation is really strange. I hope they implement an unlockable purchase for those as well.

 

Given that they sell weekly passes for Ops I'm honestly not sure why they haven't put an unlock like that in already. Given that the comm limitation keeps Preferred players who have level 50s from buying BiS gear I don't see why they think the Op weekly pass would have much appeal. 1) inability to buy BiS gear will make them the weak link in the chain; not fun for the undergeared player who can't handle Ops enemies well, not fun for the rest of the group that have to pick up the slack 2) what's the motivation to do Ops and take part in the end game gear grind if you can't actually buy the BiS gear that gives grinding a purpose?

 

Considering that the only motivation any of us have, including subs, to repeat Ops/HM FPs over and over week after week is to take part in the gear grind it would be wise to put a comm limitation unlock in if they want to sell weekly passes for end game content like Ops. Inability to take part in the grind for BiS end game equipment just serves to kill the motivation a player has to keep playing a toon after hitting max level.

[Agasius]

Ok if people want more perma unlocks give them more perma unlocks!

 

Actually for everything that can be used there should be a perma unlock!

 

Wanna go to another planet?... u should have to unlock it!... wanna do a quest and be able to do it again in the future? PAY and unlock it!

 

Perma unlocks for everyone

[Ireul]

I agree with the OP, though I would have BioWare go about it a little differently. Now before you all start yelling at me, listen; I bought the box CE. I've paid a sub for a year and bought quite a bit from the CM, but I still get the same experience as a F2Per since I mostly group PvE with my friends. My wallet is starting to feel stressed by this game, so I want to go to preferred. But I can't for one reason: that bloody credit cap! At endgame everything is around 300k with 200k minimum in some cases. So if I went to preferred I would lose access to the vendors, fall behind my friends gear-wise as new stuff is released, become a burden, and generally just ruin the game experience for my friends since everything would become "escort Ireul". As a result I'm thinking about just cancelling my sub and leaving the game - I don't want to, but financially it would be the best choice. I doubt I'm the only one in this situation. However, if BioWare released a credit cap unlock, not an unlimited one but one that raised the cap by like 500k, it would mean I (and others) could unsub and keep playing and be there to buy stuff from the CM if we wanted to. BioWare comes out a winner since they keep a player and get some money in the process, I win since I get to keep playing.

 

The OP's first point also is something I support; the second one I'm a little iffy on. having to unlock med probes all the time sounds pretty bad, but even as a sub I don't use them too often, so I don't have a great opinion on the matter. Maybe BioWare could increase the number of probes bought with each unlock and make it so they regenerate over time? Like you get 20 probes at the start and every day you get one more probe with a probe cap at 20 so you never get more probes than you paid for..

 

However, the perma-unlocks for flashpoints/warzones/etc. is the one thing the OP and I disagree on. That is one of the few remaining benefits subs have over everyone else. Taking it away (since it doesn't look like the sub model is going away anytime soon) is just stupid. That said, paying weekly for unlimited access to all that is a little much. How about a CM monthly unlock that costs, oh, how about $15?

 

Just my 2 creds.

Edited February 2, 2013 by Ireul

[Agasius]

That said, paying weekly for unlimited access to all that is a little much. How about a CM monthly unlock that costs, oh, how about $15?

 

this

 

it's funny how people will easily spend 18$ on a repainted armor set but feel that 15$ is too much and this game doesnt worth it!

 

also... just hit me, if I was preffered player and had no credit limit wouldn't I be able to buy weekly passes and every other unlock from the gtn no matter the cost?Why would I spend any money on this game anymore?

Edited February 2, 2013 by Agasius

[fresnosmokey]

If you don't want to sub, then work within the constraints that you're given. Period. I sub and I don't want to see the value of my sub eroded any further. I am sure that there are enough of us that BW doesn't want to risk losing guaranteed sub revenue.

[AboB]

If you don't want to sub, then work within the constraints that you're given. Period. I sub and I don't want to see the value of my sub eroded any further. I am sure that there are enough of us that BW doesn't want to risk losing guaranteed sub revenue.

 

I hate it when people bring logic to an opinion thread.