L-RANDLE Posted January 10, 2013 Author Share Posted January 10, 2013 (edited) lol jheri curl wig engage!!! I believe there's stun-locks in my future. Roll a jug,.... then, let them Smash a-way. No end to the rooooooot-in in-siiiiight! Give Resolve a sense..... of PRIDE, make it ez-errrrr! ....... ...... I decided, long... ago Neva to stay in a Mara's Hay-Lo. If I fail, If I succeed I'm guar..ran...teed, to... be CC'd! Because the greatest, Gamer here, Must be... Chur...bie!!! CHOCOLATE STUNLOCK!!! CHOCOLATE STUNLOCK!!! Edited January 10, 2013 by L-RANDLE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hexdoll Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 (edited) First off they need to fix the class balancing first because being killed in a few seconds by a single player makes the stun issue moot. This would be quite easily done by adjusting the % of dmg and/or mitigation each sub-class gets for each point of expertise, then there is not worries about disrupting pve balance. Second they should just make the stun break fill your resolve bar when used its that simple. Third they need to disable ALL stun immunity when in possession of the ball in hut ball except resolve. Edited January 10, 2013 by Hexdoll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pvtcarnage Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 (edited) IDK Carn... The with the vast quantity of CC available, there is not a need to use it as a tactic currently though. Maybe its just the hard/soft stuns I got a problem with, but CC is the main culprit of PvP being in this miserable state (along with Rank que barriers). With the type of change I propose, it will increase its use as a tactic. All I can say is I use mine in a tactical way and don't just spam it, The trick is to get the opponent to use theirs at the "wrong" time that gives you the advantage, sorta like in a chess game you try to lead their attention to the wrong piece so to say. And yes I would probably prefer your change over most of the other offers. But I just don't have a issue with it currently, I tend to use what is offered and do not dwell on how it could be better. By 'hard", I mean it's frustrating seeing your healer g-banged by two smashers while you are sitting there stunned, and most of the time, you are almost dead before the stun wears off.. I am not trying to compare other PvP games per se, but what makes PvP "fun" is the fact that players are 100% responsible for their production and skill level. They are never not(I know; double negative) in control of their toon. You really can't even judge a player's "skill" with all the CC flying around. I used Street Fighter as an example because I am "skilled" at that game (well in my circle of friends; but was ranked fairly high in the online rankings in the latest version). I knew my toon and others toons and opponents (yes, even online opponents through rankings) sooo well, that I knew if I did what I was suppose to do, I would be "unstoppable". CC is counter intuitive to this type of notion, competitveness, and teamwork, whether a tactical CC or not. know I might be dating myself with the whole Street Fighter thing. I been "around the PvP block", and CC is bad design in PvP as a whole. Don't get rid of it, just adjust it. Then talk class balance... I don't think CC is counter intuitive unless you try to compare it to a 2D Fighter 1vs1... it's just not comparable..... and yes back in the day I remember playing SF with friends and betting on games lol. CC adds depth and makes teamwork and communication all the more important. In a normal warzone with pugs will you see a lot of spam? sure....... Thanks for keeping it real as well. Good shtuff, here.... I think it would be backwards to try and fix smashers/Bubbles by reducing/eliminating CC Edited January 10, 2013 by Pvtcarnage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L-RANDLE Posted January 10, 2013 Author Share Posted January 10, 2013 (edited) First off they need to fix the class balancing first because being killed in a few seconds by a single player makes the stun issue moot. The fact is, if you are stunned, you can be killed faster..... So if TTK is already to low for you.... So change resolve, and increase TTK through other means... but, Static Objective WZs need low TTK... Otherwise no one would win. Kill or be killed, pop CDs or not, interrupts, taunts, guards.... counters(KBs with no extra cc attached), strats, enemy knowledge, fun... ALL take a backseat when you take or give a CC. I do it and take it, but I don't like it...Almost feels dirty in a way... Edited January 11, 2013 by L-RANDLE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheni Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 I have openly admitted in WZ that I don't care about the results. I stopped at 1.2. Now I just farm comms to break down stabs. Do I feel bad that I'm ruining the game for people that take pvp serious and that is why they play....NO. That is working as intended pve mats from a pvp format. I'm paying the people that run the game. That is how they got more to pvp. Leecher is what I am. Cause the game makes me one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhakoth Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 /facepalm.... Dear Lord..... I agree mate. The only way to have a chance at making this approach work is to go the GW2 approach and give everyone access ot the exact same PvP gear the moment they hit 50. Now I personally like this approach as it completely removes all the arguments except one - If I don't get new gear or my time isn't rewarded with more powerful gear then I have nothing to PvP for. PvP is to kill other players I always thought and if you need better gear to do it then you only seeking winning through an imbalance, not skill. While this is a separte issue to resolve I wonder if the devs are leaning towards this anyway, rather than look at changing core mechanics - which would be harder to implement 100% successfully (creating new bugs for example). The main evidence to suggest this is the lack of major stat difference between WH and EWH gear. EWH is exactly the same gear in all but a few minor stat increases, which could be argued provide no benefit at all over WH gear. This was also mentioned in the interview. Combine this with their happiness at TTK times with equaly geared opponents, the current amount of stuns and the way resolve works (if not easily explained) leads me to believe that they are looking at the gear and availability of it, rather than the core mechanics. That is completely my personal opinion. Here is the link for those that wish to listen to it themselves and it is definitely worth the 1 hour of your time. http://torwars.com/2012/12/07/torwars-podcast-120-exclusive-interview-with-senior-systems-designer-rob-hinkle/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L-RANDLE Posted January 11, 2013 Author Share Posted January 11, 2013 pvp and pve should not mix. But this is what the devs have done. Now they are asking for help to find the hackers. The way I play is how they intended. You can respond with all the QQ but nothing I'm doing is wrong. I want stabilizers and this is an easy way to get them. Are you in the right thread hommie? Go talk to the people complaining about farmers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cashogy Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 pvp and pve should not mix. But this is what the devs have done. Now they are asking for help to find the hackers. The way I play is how they intended. You can respond with all the QQ but nothing I'm doing is wrong. I want stabilizers and this is an easy way to get them. the farmers thread is -> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joesixxpack Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Chocolate is a lie, you always know what you gonna get... First the cake, now this... Getting back to the point, I'd like to add some really salient and convincing details to support why this is a needed change. But it's late and rum and coke sounded like a good idea so pretend they're here: ____________. I'll also suggest that when CC is as easy to drop-in to WZ rotations as it is, and is commonly fat-fingered to replace defensive abilities and skill, there's too much CC available and not enough consequence for using it. Anyway, those are the thoughts inside of meeeeeeyeeeyeee...yeah-ee-yeah-eee-yeahhhh..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groncho Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 good post a lower TTK wil be also better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth-Rammstein Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 I have openly admitted in WZ that I don't care about the results. I stopped at 1.2. Now I just farm comms to break down stabs. Do I feel bad that I'm ruining the game for people that take pvp serious and that is why they play....NO. That is working as intended pve mats from a pvp format. I'm paying the people that run the game. That is how they got more to pvp. Leecher is what I am. Cause the game makes me one. So you're the noob that enters the my wzs in pve gear... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryanseven Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Not sure where the farming stuff came from...but do hope the fix the godawful amount of CC in the game. Can't really get into wz's much anymore. Just not fun spending so much time CC'd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L-RANDLE Posted January 11, 2013 Author Share Posted January 11, 2013 inside of meeeeeeyeeeyeee...yeah-ee-yeah-eee-yeahhhh..... :-) Remember when I said Coming to America has a lot in common with SWTOR?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeralPug Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Change the rate of decay of the resolve timer: While in-combat the rate should be slower than it currently is. Far too often the usefulness of full Resolve, is minor compared to the CC available in a WZ. The gap needs to be closed. Not a ton, but some... Change when the resolve decay is actually active: Any switch to out-of-combat should STOP any resolve decay. This would eliminate any "stun, stun, stun, dead",........ respawn,.........."stun, stun, stun, dead" routine Adjust classes in the new system: Ops, Merc, Sorc and for god's sake, keep the burst(Smash) in the game. Just give other classes the means to do it as well. That is what makes WZ's dynamic, Situational Burst, not CC's. 100X yes! Nice post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L-RANDLE Posted January 11, 2013 Author Share Posted January 11, 2013 100X yes! Nice post. Thx. I am actually think about making an addition to this request given some issues brought up by others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siorac Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 A very good OP, I fully agree with it. I particularly like the suggestions about the rate of Resolve's decay and the out of combat "immunity" to this decay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaedalusV Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 <-----This is why I poo-poo CC. TTK right now would be fine in a stunless world... Taking away player control for the sake of extending TTK is not the right route in PvP. The very last part of above statement I partially agree with. In PvP, they already have a formula in place to control "general" TTK. The Expertise Curve. Not the amount, the contribution percentages. Above is WHY I agree with you CC is a PvE tool to control mobs. Oh? I disagree. The whole point of "skill" in PvP is reaction time, which CC contradicts 100%. If that's your definition of PvP, you should try playing a first person shooter, those games are ALL ABOUT this one-dimensional design philosophy. This is why I said CC in itself dumbs down this game, along with GCDs. I can deal with globals though because I am still in control the majority of the time I am playing, that is, of course until I'm stunned... Hmm... I see what you're writing, but it's a false statement. CC and GCDs makes the game more complex. It increases complexity because it makes your choices mean something. WHO do I CC, WHAT skill should I use now, these things aren't as important if you don't have the CC tools in the game. Tone down the CC, by adjusting resolve. Give back the situational burst. Adjust classes to be within a certain percentage of each other (maybe it could end up being a nerf to some since you are giving situational burst back). You're making sense here. I fully agree! You are right back to having the same TTK, but players are now determining their own fate (without losing as much control as you do now). CC is an important tactical tool, use it correctly or spam it mindlessly. First option gives you an edge, second one makes things infinitely harder on yourself and your team. Classes are nerfed and CC is put in its place. The CC is too much, then they are nerfed again. yada, yada its a vicious cycle, while CC is really the only common thread among all threads here... Errr... try looking through the PvP forum again. I see loads of other QQ theads about specs that out-perform in warzone play. Those specs aren't about CC at all. (yeah you guessed it, those smashers out there are a real issue too) What makes WZ dynamic is lower TTK. <------This is what the community needs to fight for because then real tactics would rule.. It is also why I say something like Smash is about where it should be from an output perspective, but you are using two CC's to generate that, which there is really no way to stop consistantly ? ...... DUMB.. POWER TO THE PLAYERS!!! Commenting on your last part here. If I wanted to get killed in 10-20 secs after spawning I wouldn't play this game, I would go play a first person shooter. Maybe you're playing the wrong game? (Or evaluating PvP in this game using the wrong scales?) Chess is PvP Poker is PvP PvP =/= reaction time vs reaction time (twitch based PvP IS tho, so go play a twitch based game?) The CC available to players are fine as it is. Resolve is NOT Increasing the amount of available CC breakers might be the solution (EG. Decrease CC breaker cooldown and/or have it reset on death) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L-RANDLE Posted January 11, 2013 Author Share Posted January 11, 2013 The CC available to players are fine as it is. Resolve is NOT I can agree with that, and I want you to know I have no intention to advocate to have it removed 100%. FPS are too lax (remember AWP maps in Counter-Strike? LOL)... I want it to be somewhere in the middle... I know CC is also meant to stop healers and possibly enable you to "win" when outnumbered, but damage and interrupts should stop healers, and I feel situational burst/prevention of situaional burst can replace the CC to enable the latter.. Also for everyone else I did some cleanup/edits on the OP. Let's keep it going if possible. I see a new bubblestun thread is up... And knowing the Devs they are probably ready to swing nerfbats over listening to this type of "plan of action". in my Thurgood Jenkins voice: Devs! *Up with Scalpels; Down with Gillotines!!! *Instead of Billy Bong Thornton, use Wesley Pipes *Quit feedin' diabetic Horses(Mercs/Sage/et. al) popcorn (will be fixed soon). *Make CC = Guy on the Couch: Useful, at times.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VarrusTheEthical Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 I view PVP stunning as fundamentally bad gameplay. You're basically allowing one player to pause another player's game, interrupting their experience. I would personally prefer it if Bioware did away with the entire resolve system and just changed player stuns so that they do not work on other players at all. Once that crutch is taken away, then Bioware can focus on actually balancing the classes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L-RANDLE Posted January 11, 2013 Author Share Posted January 11, 2013 I view PVP stunning as fundamentally bad gameplay. You're basically allowing one player to pause another player's game, interrupting their experience. I would personally prefer it if Bioware did away with the entire resolve system and just changed player stuns so that they do not work on other players at all. Once that crutch is taken away, then Bioware can focus on actually balancing the classes. You can't change this design without seriously wrecking specs or playstyle. You can tone it down and adjust a few other things. And then maybe, just maybe, would stunlock ops, bubblestun, smash won't seem so OP'd.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaedalusV Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 I view PVP stunning as fundamentally bad gameplay. You're basically allowing one player to pause another player's game, interrupting their experience. I would personally prefer it if Bioware did away with the entire resolve system and just changed player stuns so that they do not work on other players at all. Once that crutch is taken away, then Bioware can focus on actually balancing the classes. Dying in PvP is fundamentally bad gameplay. You're basically allowing one player to pause another player's game, interrupting their experience.... If you don't want CC in pvp, you're playing the wrong kind of game. As far as I know, this is a mmoRPG and I've been able to cast incapacitating spells in rpgs since the dawn of Eye Of The Beholder. (single player I know) But RPGs have more layers to their mechanics than just pew pew pew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VarrusTheEthical Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 (edited) Dying in PvP is fundamentally bad gameplay. You're basically allowing one player to pause another player's game, interrupting their experience.... If you don't want CC in pvp, you're playing the wrong kind of game. As far as I know, this is a mmoRPG and I've been able to cast incapacitating spells in rpgs since the dawn of Eye Of The Beholder. (single player I know) But RPGs have more layers to their mechanics than just pew pew pew. How very pedantic. Stuns take control away from the player for longer than death does. Death may take you out of the action longer, but you're back in control of your character the moment you hit the respawn button. And I'm not talking about removing all CCs, just stuns. Roots, knockbacks, pulls and slows are fine, since the affected player can still do something. If you're stunned and your CC break in on cooldown, then you're SOL. Finally, how incapacitating spells in old school RPGS work do not apply to online PVP. Edited January 11, 2013 by VarrusTheEthical Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L-RANDLE Posted January 11, 2013 Author Share Posted January 11, 2013 How very pedantic. Finally, how incapacitating spells in old school RPGS work do not apply to online PVP. Well they do in this PvP game, but I think we all here are somewhat in agreement that it needs to be looked at further. you can't just eliminate stuns now since it has been in game since launch.. It would screw a ton of gameplay up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L-RANDLE Posted January 11, 2013 Author Share Posted January 11, 2013 Well they do in this PvP game, but I think we all here are somewhat in agreement that it needs to be looked at further. you can't just eliminate stuns now since it has been in game since launch.. It would screw a ton of gameplay up... Bump to counter the stun bubble thread... again.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaedalusV Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 How very pedantic. Stuns take control away from the player for longer than death does. Death may take you out of the action longer, but you're back in control of your character the moment you hit the respawn button. Pot, meet kettle, it's black. You technically got control, but you're 20+ secs out of the action, seems you're just as pedantic. And I'm not talking about removing all CCs, just stuns. Roots, knockbacks, pulls and slows are fine, since the affected player can still do something. If you're stunned and your CC break in on cooldown, then you're SOL. Finally, how incapacitating spells in old school RPGS work do not apply to online PVP. You are forgetting to mention mezzes. I will assume you put them into the stun category.. Removing hard stuns and mezzes will make this game a fundamentally different game. I don't want that. I want THIS game to work. I like the option of stunning and mezzing. without those tools, it would be very difficult to balance the trinity in the wzs (healers vs tanks vs dps) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts