Should i upgrade my graphics card or cpu?

[Marmerus]

oc a gpu hardly does anything anyway, you can get maybe 1-2 fps boost in most cases, it's like oc'ing memory - does very little

 

 

also that stuff about game optimization seems to me to be more like that gpu company throwing the game developer some kickback for advertising that there game runs the best on that particular gpu series. I don't think there is much to the whole this game is optimized for this card stuff

 

also I dont like amd for non-gpu related reasons, I was just mad they half assed there 8 core fx series cpu's

You can get pretty good performance.

 

Here is an example of a Radeon 7950 that is overclocked and volt modded with OC.

 

http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/radeon_hd_7950_overclock_guide,8.html

 

In some cases the difference between the volt modded and the stock is more than 20%. And it passes the €80 more expensive 7970.

This is ofc old test and drivers has changed and all the 7970 has gotten a giant boost. But the point still stands you can overclock your GPU and get lots of performance.

 

I can't OC mine like the AMD owners can. But then again 3x 7970 overclocked would probably produce more heat than the deathstar.

[Fornix]

So why is there no I/O activity during the stall?

 

And why would SWTOR take forever with an SSD compared to similar loads in similar game (if there were I/O activitiy at that point, which there isn't).

 

I've never thrown my disk resource monitor up during load screens, so I simply can't say what it does during that moment. I'll give it a go one time, see what it's up to.

 

Beyond that, as for differences in loading time, there definitely are yes. Although SWTOR isn't the slowest in that regard, but definitely not the fastest. Most probably decompression differences playing part, and less optimized. Or increased compression levels of security, which require additional steps for the game to run through. I must say I'm not that much into the resource files of this game, and how easy they are to completely rip with third party viewers or not.

[Marmerus]

sorry just to make sure I understand... you cant max your games out with 3-680's?

 

do you have the little sli bridge connected right? lol

 

are you trying to play your games on the overhead screen at cowboy's stadium or something? cuz I think 3 680's should even be able to pull that off.

 

 

sadly you're doing something wrong pal, or your definition of max setting is pretty out there in wonderland.

Guess Im doing something wrong... just like everyone else in the world.

 

Ever heard of hardocp?

They are having the exact same problems as me. They can't max out every game

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2012/04/25/geforce_gtx_680_3way_sli_radeon_7970_trifire_review/3

[Fornix]

sorry just to make sure I understand... you cant max your games out with 3-680's?

 

do you have the little sli bridge connected right? lol

 

are you trying to play your games on the overhead screen at cowboy's stadium or something? cuz I think 3 680's should even be able to pull that off.

 

 

sadly you're doing something wrong pal, or your definition of max setting is pretty out there in wonderland.

 

I'm not the one with 3 680's, that's someone else who responded prior. I run a single 680. And yes, I can max my games at 680, but as I believe default ingame settings maxed out is not sufficient graphical quality I enhance where possible by using higher res texture packs, alter the config files to further enhance the maximum limits to if there would be an ingame slider for it "ultra ultra ultra high".

 

For example in games such as Skyrim I find it a waste for rocks or trees to suddenly appear in the distance as I get closer. I find it annoying that indoor lightning default for example doesn't include lightning coming in through cracks in roofs, half open shutters in windows, etc. So I use mods, config adjustments, etc to fix all of that; making it GPU more intensive, but more enjoyable to play to me.

[Gwence]

For all games I play I use HD texture packs where available, I use enhanced effects and lighting where available, etc. Furthermore I commonly alter the .cfg files to enhance aspects such as foliage density, view distance, object view distance, shading effects, etc.

 

For other games such as for example GTA IV I use things such as iCEnhancer to improve the game's looks.

 

All of such things give a hit on performance for which more GPU power is required to keep it playable.

 

sounds cool for gta 4, swtor has all that stuff available already. I guess they'll have to start working on giving players the option to thicken up the foliage haha

 

it's cool you tweak your config files but all that stuff u mentioned can be adjusted in the options menu and the standards out of the box are more than enough for the vast majority of users

[Gwence]

Guess Im doing something wrong... just like everyone else in the world.

 

Ever heard of hardocp?

They are having the exact same problems as me. They can't max out every game

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2012/04/25/geforce_gtx_680_3way_sli_radeon_7970_trifire_review/3

 

ppretty much guaranteed nvidia just needs to work on a new driver that will fix that problem, it's not a hardware problem

 

find a review from a last gen nv surround 3 way, you'll find a card that can pull it off np, probably many.

[Fornix]

sounds cool for gta 4, swtor has all that stuff available already. I guess they'll have to start working on giving players the option to thicken up the foliage haha

 

it's cool you tweak your config files but all that stuff u mentioned can be adjusted in the options menu and the standards out of the box are more than enough for the vast majority of users

 

Mwuah, foliage is quite thick in SWTOR, however its visibility limit is .... :X You literalry see it pop up roughly 30m in front of you as you walk, which feels awkward to me .

 

Beyond that, don't understimate the number of players which end up using mods such as those, within the Steam Workshop for example Skyrim graphically enhancing mods are part of the most popular mods. There's quite a large number of players always trying to get more out of their games.

[ckoneful]

I'm not quite sure on how the Ati cards perform as I'm more of an nvidia guy. However, I can most certainly imagine your CPU @ 2.8 Ghz being the bottleneck in TOR. Ingame press ctrl+shift+f and see what color the FPS indicator becomes in the bottom left corner of the screen.

 

 

 

In other words, if it slows down but remains green, upgrade the CPU for SWTOR. If it becomes red when it slows down in busy fights, upgrade the GPU.

 

If you're not just optimizing for MMO's or DirectX 9 games but want to optimize for regular games, games making use of DirectX 11, then most certainly upgrade the graphics card.

 

I did not know that! Thanks. My FPS is always red but it's generally always over 90 fps so I won't really worry about it but it's good to know.

[dacentabaal]

My cpu is an Intel Core i7 860 2.80GHZ

Graphics card is ATI Radeon HD 5700 series

I know nothing about computers really but the game extremely laggy in combat. Any help is greatly appreciated.

 

Ok.. personally I dont why people are always saying "ooh up your graphics card oooh change your processor"

Now.. the processor I use...Intel Core 2 Duo E6850 3Ghz...ancient by todays standards

Graphics card...ATI Radeon HD 5700 Series....not so bad but old, I play SWTOR on full settings the only lag in game I get is if STEAM is running and downloading a patch and even then its minimal, I can still use the internet etc and the game is fine

 

So people always sayings its the system or part of... its not.. mines old, it works fantastic and can still play the latest game at least on high graphics

[ckoneful]

Ok.. personally I dont why people are always saying "ooh up your graphics card oooh change your processor"

Now.. the processor I use...Intel Core 2 Duo E6850 3Ghz...ancient by todays standards

Graphics card...ATI Radeon HD 5700 Series....not so bad but old, I play SWTOR on full settings the only lag in game I get is if STEAM is running and downloading a patch and even then its minimal, I can still use the internet etc and the game is fine

 

So people always sayings its the system or part of... its not.. mines old, it works fantastic and can still play the latest game at least on high graphics

 

There is no possible way you have the game maxed out on that system without incredibly AWFUL FPS. Also, I'm assuming you don't know much since you went from talking about your system specs to saying your system isn't bad because of your internet speed.

[Gwence]

people dont realize screen resolution is directly related to performance in games

 

if he's running 800x600 he can have max settings with that setup and great fps no problem

[Gwence]

Mwuah, foliage is quite thick in SWTOR, however its visibility limit is .... :X You literalry see it pop up roughly 30m in front of you as you walk, which feels awkward to me .

 

Beyond that, don't understimate the number of players which end up using mods such as those, within the Steam Workshop for example Skyrim graphically enhancing mods are part of the most popular mods. There's quite a large number of players always trying to get more out of their games.

 

fair enough, I re-sub like 2 months ago and noticed that foliage thing right away, I don't remember that effect being in game at launch. It kind of bothered me at first, but I've gotten used to it

[Goretzu]

I've never thrown my disk resource monitor up during load screens, so I simply can't say what it does during that moment. I'll give it a go one time, see what it's up to.

 

Beyond that, as for differences in loading time, there definitely are yes. Although SWTOR isn't the slowest in that regard, but definitely not the fastest. Most probably decompression differences playing part, and less optimized. Or increased compression levels of security, which require additional steps for the game to run through. I must say I'm not that much into the resource files of this game, and how easy they are to completely rip with third party viewers or not.

 

Certainly decompression could be part of the issue, it was much better when it wasn't.

[Marmerus]

ppretty much guaranteed nvidia just needs to work on a new driver that will fix that problem, it's not a hardware problem

 

find a review from a last gen nv surround 3 way, you'll find a card that can pull it off np, probably many.

That is a hardware problem. The lack of video memory and lack of memory bandwidth is the reason the fps goes down in BF3.

 

That is a test of the last generation of Nvidia and AMD GPUs.

 

And no you can't fix that with drivers. Drivers can make it run better but you won't be able to max out all games. And with max out in my case is running the games on the absolute maximum settings with everything turned on.

But it seems your idea of maxing out a game is running with medium settings at 800x600.

[Liquidacid]

people dont realize screen resolution is directly related to performance in games

 

if he's running 800x600 he can have max settings with that setup and great fps no problem

 

ya but what is the point in running Max setting on 800x600... unless he has a 6 inch monitor it will still look as bad as if it was on all low settings... lol

[Gwence]

That is a hardware problem. The lack of video memory and lack of memory bandwidth is the reason the fps goes down in BF3.

 

That is a test of the last generation of Nvidia and AMD GPUs.

 

And no you can't fix that with drivers. Drivers can make it run better but you won't be able to max out all games. And with max out in my case is running the games on the absolute maximum settings with everything turned on.

But it seems your idea of maxing out a game is running with medium settings at 800x600.

 

your argument is pretty out there, this was a swtor post and you've somehow included bf3 with 3 monitors at max resolution

 

sorry u spent $1500+ on gpu's and cant get your aa to max out for 1 game, did you want some pity or are you just mad at your terrible choice of hardware? Then the article u posted gives the config that does allow for max in that game with eyefinity, so whats your point?

 

do you have trouble running swtor with those 3 680's? Cuz I dont have any trouble with 1 560ti on a normal 24 inch monitor at native res

Edited January 2, 2013 by Gwence

[LordArtemis]

Nvidia and AMD both have had various issues with their drivers at times.

 

Reasonable point, but I currently use a XFX HD-687A-ZNFV Radeon HD 6870, it's only 1GB, and I have remained faithful to ATI/AMD since I started building computers.

 

I actually use AMD products almost exclusively, and run this game on Windows XP SP3 32bit.

 

Yet I still agree, for THIS particular game Nvidia cards have far fewer problems. You can certainly disagree, but the facts tend to stand in contrast.

[Geryboy]

My cpu is an Intel Core i7 860 2.80GHZ

Graphics card is ATI Radeon HD 5700 series

 

I know nothing about computers really but the game extremely laggy in combat. Any help is greatly appreciated.

 

game uses 2 cpu cores. have a i7 3770k @ 4.5 Ghz and a 7970 @ 1800/1600. My GPU usage in pvp is 60% max. which means my cpu is bottlenecking. Res 2560x1440

 

To make it short you won't max this game out ang get const 60fps. If there's 16 players in the game -pvp or ops- the best pc will struggle any cpu will bend down. If you buy a new 150$ GPU your 16 man content will still be stuttering. This game has a bad engine and I wouldn't invest a couple of 100 $ for this game alone.

[Skoobie]

Reasonable point, but I currently use a XFX HD-687A-ZNFV Radeon HD 6870, it's only 1GB, and I have remained faithful to ATI/AMD since I started building computers.

 

I actually use AMD products almost exclusively, and run this game on Windows XP SP3 32bit.

 

Yet I still agree, for THIS particular game Nvidia cards have far fewer problems. You can certainly disagree, but the facts tend to stand in contrast.

 

Totally fair, I was speaking more in the general sense then this game specifically.

 

I'm currently running a 5780 Eyfinity with 2GB and current drivers and have had little problem with this game. Can't run Farcry 3 on ultimate settings, however.

 

Saying that, I've been thinking of upgrading, but have been torn between AMD & Nvidia. I've used ATI almost exclusively for about a decade, but the new Kepler cards are impressive.

[Alynore]

I'm not quite sure on how the Ati cards perform as I'm more of an nvidia guy. However, I can most certainly imagine your CPU @ 2.8 Ghz being the bottleneck in TOR. Ingame press ctrl+shift+f and see what color the FPS indicator becomes in the bottom left corner of the screen.

 

 

 

In other words, if it slows down but remains green, upgrade the CPU for SWTOR. If it becomes red when it slows down in busy fights, upgrade the GPU.

 

If you're not just optimizing for MMO's or DirectX 9 games but want to optimize for regular games, games making use of DirectX 11, then most certainly upgrade the graphics card.

 

I think there needs to be a better explanation of the colors. I have an I7 930 and there is NO way my CPU needs an upgrade and I am constantly green, if I go by the color chart. Not to mention SWTOR doesn't even utilize a quad core processor.

[dacentabaal]

There is no possible way you have the game maxed out on that system without incredibly AWFUL FPS. Also, I'm assuming you don't know much since you went from talking about your system specs to saying your system isn't bad because of your internet speed.

 

Just because my out of game internet speed (only if im downloading) is crap does'nt effect the game.. and yes,.. yes i do have everything on max with what i have in my pc (SWTOR). ...I just never check my FPS.. aslong as the game runs smooth like it does.. then I dont care no lag no graphics probelsm nothing.. all runs smooth.. believe it or not.. you dont have to have the best gear to get good quality gaming

[LordArtemis]

Totally fair, I was speaking more in the general sense then this game specifically.

 

I'm currently running a 5780 Eyfinity with 2GB and current drivers and have had little problem with this game. Can't run Farcry 3 on ultimate settings, however.

 

Saying that, I've been thinking of upgrading, but have been torn between AMD & Nvidia. I've used ATI almost exclusively for about a decade, but the new Kepler cards are impressive.

 

Well, If you want to stick to AMD, I would suggest you give a 6850 or 6870 a whirl. Right now there are some problems with 7000 series cards throttling down too low, causing screen artifacts and other problems. Both cards can be had for pretty reasonable prices, and are solid performers.

[LtBombshell]

Graphics card.

[Goretzu]

ya but what is the point in running Max setting on 800x600... unless he has a 6 inch monitor it will still look as bad as if it was on all low settings... lol

 

VR googles.

[Fornix]

I think there needs to be a better explanation of the colors. I have an I7 930 and there is NO way my CPU needs an upgrade and I am constantly green, if I go by the color chart. Not to mention SWTOR doesn't even utilize a quad core processor.

 

This is due to the way the game utilizes the CPU. SWTOR is a DirectX 9.0c game, that's the primary issue at hand. Games have little CPU usage, beyond the DirectX component. As essentially, there's very little calculation outside of the graphical work for the CPU to be done.

 

DirectX 9.0c however, does not support multi-core use. So whenever a DirectX 9.0c game has multi-core support, it actually means the following:

 

- The big bulk of CPU usage, by the DX API, runs on a single core.

- Any secondary, low CPU using tasks, run on additional threads and are offloaded to other cores.

 

In other words, multi-core support for a DirectX 9.0c game, will for most games barely bring you any benefit. There are few exceptions, such as simulation titles, or RTS games doing a lot of non DX computing on the side, etc. But for titles such as FPS games, MMO's, etc there's little true CPU usage beyond the DX load.

 

Secondly, DirectX 9.0c has a second disadvantage, as it still works in the traditional manner of operating along the following line of communication.

 

The game wants something rendered, it let's the CPU do the calculations on how to render the dots to lines, and how to render the lines to planes, before the CPU passes along the message to the GPU.

 

DirectX 10 improved on this, a bit, by essentially letting the CPU calculate the lines and then let the GPU do the rest of the work.

 

DirectX 11 further enhanced this, by letting the game directly pass on the points to the GPU, which then fills in the plains and does the bulk of the work.

 

As SWTOR however is no DX10 or DX11 game, it means the CPU is still doing needless work and passing messages on, all of that on a single core. A single core which in your case as being an i7-930 from what I recall has a clock speed of 2.8 Ghz if not OC'ed. This means that for SWTOR, that clock speed is low and it forms a serious bottle neck for this games performance.

 

Meanwhile, as your graphics card is not needing to compute the renders to the same extent as what it does for other newer games (taking it you have a modern card) it is unlikely for that to form the bottleneck.

 

 

 

It is unfortunate that BioWare decided to go by popular demand during development and stick to DX9. Performance could have been greatly enhanced and optimized if they'd have gone for DX11. Even if not exclusively, it'd be a major performance increment by toggling it on for those who can. As not only made clear in benchmarks, but also in games such as Cataclysm where with the same settings, DX11 has a 40% performance benefit over DX9 and other titles have shown performance increments of even higher.

 

In other words, if you'd have 60 fps now, you may be able to score up to 80 - 100 fps with DX11 implementation.

 

Side-note to that is obviously that many developers then in turn throw in a bunch of additional graphical changes to use up that additional fps freedom, and still go back to 60 fps or worse as water tesselation, additional particle effects for dust, smoke and fire, in addition to water droplets, etc are suddenly introduced .