I'm feeling Nickel and Dimed by Makeb

[Prysha]

*Disclaimer: I can only share my own views. They are not 100% indicative of everyone displeased with the expansion announcement, though I like to think that there is at least some cross-over.

 

1) I do not care about the price. I doubt anyone else cares about the price. I threw down $20 on LoL the other day because I feel that Riot deserved it. So yeah, $10 is nothing to me.

 

No, what I have a problem with is the principle of the matter. Bioware originally stated, when Makeb was first announced, that it would be a free, extremely large content update (unlike any other in the MMO genre, I believe). They also stated in the F2P announcement/FAQs/What-have-you, that the experience would not change at all for a subscriber who continued to subscribe. They then turn around and say that Makeb is no longer classified as a content update, but an expansion, and that subscribers will also have to pay to continue playing at endgame. Essentially, they lied, changing circumstances be damned.

 

2) They've set up another sleazy cash-grab to get optimists to fork over more money. We have almost no information about Makeb other than the +5 levels, new planet with faction quests and no new class story. They set a time limit on this pre-order so that when they do go into specifics on what Makeb will entail, those who pre-ordered cannot back out of the deal if they find it to be lacking.

 

3) As of this point, Makeb is not an expansion, it's a content update. We already have planets, we already have levels, we already have faction stories, we already have operations, flashpoints and warzones. What happened to open world PvP? What happened to the super secret space project that we'd find out about at the end of last year? What happened to SGRAs? Where's pazaak and swoop racing? Where's the customisable housing and/or ships? Where are the things that make this an expansion and not a content update?

 

Using WoW as an example: BC introduced flying mounts and new races, WotLK introduced a new class, Cataclysm completely redesigned the original continents and offered continuity in it's story and MoP introduced a new class and pet battles. Some of those things are small, some might not appeal to you, but they introduced new elements of gameplay and expanded the game.

 

Honestly, I want Bioware to prove me wrong on this one. I really, really do. But the way this game's been going, I simply don't have it in me to believe that they will.

 

4) Chosing to support Makeb means choosing to support the game going in this direction. Vague promises of content that everyone has to pay for every now and then, subscribers be damned. What will you say when they release a real ~$50 expansion ontop of the pissy little $10 'expansions'? I'd be more than happy to pay for a real expansion that extended class story and added some new element to the gameplay, but supporting Makeb means supporting more expansions like Makeb, which do not appeal to me at all as a subscriber.

 

I've been here since 2008. I bought the CE and I loved the game. I have no regrets. But I am sorely, sorely dissapointed in the direction that this game is being taken. It's depressing to see a game that had such massive potential flounder into obscurity.

 

I'm aware that my views do not align with anyone on either side of the argument. But please, just stop and consider that there might be more to our argument before you assume we're all cheapskates that don't have $10 to spare.

 

Might be a good post but without proofs / source links / screenies its is pretty useless...

Give us links where "they stated" things....

[Kalfear]

Can I have a link to a direct quote from the developers stating that specifically Makeb will be a free update? I hear that a lot on the forums but it tends to be a stretch from what the developers actually said.

 

Its been linked in last week dozen times

 

Do your own research on a issue

 

Ill clear one thing up as person below you said it was never said

 

WHAT WAS SAID

Makeb is looking to be a huge content update. Our subscribers will receive all content updates included in their subscription charges.

 

That was THE OFFICAL STATEMENT (paraphrased as Ive read it when released and a 100 times over on these forums in links, I dont need to pretend it doesnt exist as not linked specifically in this one threa

 

A month or so ago in a non official Q&A it was asked if Makeb was still free to subscribers and dev responding "said it was under discussion"

 

This also was linked all over these forums

 

That was the last thing said publically on issue until pre orders were announced here

 

If you cant tell the difference between a OFFICAL STATEMENT by someone who makes the rules at the time and the laster answer only found in a off site Q&A.

 

Well cant help you there, seems pretty obvious to me.

 

And again, sorry but do your own homework for the quotes. Those who been here for all of this issue seen them all first hand many times.

[Talahar]

I actually don't mind that Rise isn't free. What I mind is that I couldn't pay for it with cartel coins.

I've been a subscriber since day 1, with a collector's edition no less, and I'm sitting on a huge amount

of coins. Pretty much everything in the cartel coin shop besides account unlocks is, in my opinion, overpriced garbage.

(And don't get me started on the pay2win space mission equipment or the frickin' grab bags)

Being able to use some of these coins on the expansion pack would have made me feel much better regarding the shop.

(Please release the frickin' cathar already. Give me something I actually WANT to buy....)

Edited January 1, 2013 by Talahar

[MoobooMagoo]

In all honesty, I remember Makeb just being mentioned as future content... I think some people have the weirdest memories and misconceptions about future content and then get really bent out of shape when things don't turn out that way. The only definite fact we were told that didn't turn out true, to my knowledge, was that we were told it would be coming this year, which it won't.

 

Only thing that bothers me about Makeb is that I know too little about it to want to pre-order. The details are scant and the content we are given sounds bare minimum for even a cheap expansion.

 

They have the memory that SOMEONE said that Makeb was going to be free to subscribers. They just forget that the 'someone' in this case was an interviewer and NOT a dev. The person he was talking to (I forget which dev it was) didn't confirm or deny whether or not it would be free.

[Pathlight-]

None of any of this matters for two basic and simple reasons. 1- We all know that no matter how much people cry BW/EA is not going to change their minds and say "oh you're right, we'll just call it an update and make it free". And 2- We all know darn good and well every single one of these people are going to pay $10 (probably already have) because none of them can stand not being the first one to do the new stuff and reach 55 so they can complain about it. EA knows this as well, which is how we why they will not change their prices.

 

Well said, I couldn't agree more.

[LarenDahe]

The thing that is beyond hilarious, is I watched the E3 video and said to myself: Well this will cost about $20, same with my friends. Instead some of it has actually been free, gasp! How do you people function on the planet Earth when you fail so badly at using past experience to arrive at a reasonable conclusion about a similiar future event? Oh, wait, I know how you function; you basically stand around yelling "Rabblerabblerabble" as loudly as you can while threatening to leave the game.

[AsheraII]

They have the memory that SOMEONE said that Makeb was going to be free to subscribers. They just forget that the 'someone' in this case was an interviewer and NOT a dev. The person he was talking to (I forget which dev it was) didn't confirm or deny whether or not it would be free.

Indeed, in all these threads with this claim, noone's actually given a working link to the statement. I do definitely recall a statement where they were CONSIDERING making it a free update to subscribers, but again, that's not a solid promise. But ah well.

 

As for game changing expansions: no thank you. Usually, they change the game into a direction I do NOT enjoy. There are a few exceptions to that rule, but I can count them on one hand. In my opinion, an expansion should EXPAND the game, not CHANGE the game.

Hell, I've played WoW for five years, but with every expansion I started to HATE the game more, with every expansion it changed further away from the game I fell in love with when it launched. And don't even get me started on some of the mid-expansion overhauls it received as well.

[Thaed]

Indeed, in all these threads with this claim, noone's actually given a working link to the statement. I do definitely recall a statement where they were CONSIDERING making it a free update to subscribers, but again, that's not a solid promise. But ah well.

 

As for game changing expansions: no thank you. Usually, they change the game into a direction I do NOT enjoy. There are a few exceptions to that rule, but I can count them on one hand. In my opinion, an expansion should EXPAND the game, not CHANGE the game.

Hell, I've played WoW for five years, but with every expansion I started to HATE the game more, with every expansion it changed further away from the game I fell in love with when it launched. And don't even get me started on some of the mid-expansion overhauls it received as well.

 

 

Towards the end.

 

He states that Makeb is a content patch (the largest in any MMO he's heard of), not an expansion. Combine this with Bioware saying that F2P would change nothing for subscribers, we'll still get regular content updates paid for by our subscriptions and you can conclude that Makeb = free.

 

Now Bioware have backflipped on it being a content update and are calling it an expansion. That's more worrying to me than them charging for it if a piece of content that couldn't be considered an expansion suddenly becomes one.

 

edit: if you read what I wrote in regards to expanding the game, none of that would be considered as fundementally changing it.

Edited January 1, 2013 by Thaed

[Arlbo_Nabbins]

Doesn't anger me at all.

 

MMOs have always separated expansions and content updates, the former are almost always paid for. If it includes a level cap increase it is almost always an expansion. I have always been expecting that Makeb would come with a cost if you want to get the full benefits.

[AsheraII]

 

Towards the end.

 

He states that Makeb is a content patch (the largest in any MMO he's heard of), not an expansion. Combine this with Bioware saying that F2P would change nothing for subscribers, we'll still get regular content updates paid for by our subscriptions and you can conclude that Makeb = free.

 

Now Bioware have backflipped on it being a content update and are calling it an expansion. That's more worrying to me than them charging for it if a piece of content that couldn't be considered an expansion suddenly becomes one.

 

edit: if you read what I wrote in regards to expanding the game, none of that would be considered as fundementally changing it.

Except that he does NOT say it's free. That's the interviewer voicing his assumptions. James Ohlen does say a few times that it's not going to be an expansion, well, obviously they changed their mind and decided to turn it into an expansion after all. A small one, and because of that, noticably CHEAPER than your avarage game expansion, but they turned it into an expansion. I don't call that backflipping. I call that upgrading.

 

As for these "changes"..

Flying mounts added NOTHING to the game, they only took away from the experience of exploration and removed world PvP.

The new races only added some 2 hours of leveling content each and imbalances.

The new class added about 40 minutes of leveling content and yet more imbalances.

With the planetary overhaul, a lot of unfinished quests and lore inconsistencies were only covered up instead of solved. They simply deleted the problems they created instead of sorting them out.

Well, and ofcourse Pandas were implemented as an april 1 fools joke, and they should've stayed that way.

 

And ofcourse, the worst of all, the class overhauls. They couldn't just expand on the game. So they overhauled it. A year before an expansion, there'd usually pop a thread up on each class forum, asking for input. Half a year before an expansion, they'd give some crude ideas of what things they were working on, promises of new abilities, new skills, etc. Two months before the expansion, we'd finally get to see our new skilltrees, and find none of the ideas they asked for a year before were even taken in consideration, and all the promises from half a before got scrapped as well, resulting in something largely unfinished and extremely buggy. About 3 or 4 months after the expansion, half the bugs would finally be fixed and the remaining ones deemed so unfixable that they'd receive yet another overhaul.

 

Blizzard did some things right when they launched their initial game, and weren't too far off the mark with TBC, but every expansion after that was a disaster. All thanks to those badly thought out changes they included. Changes, not expansions.

Edited January 1, 2013 by AsheraII

[SWaotc]

Get in touch with the federal trade commission/trading standards.

[Thaed]

Except that he does NOT say it's free. That's the interviewer voicing his assumptions. James Ohlen does say a few times that it's not going to be an expansion, well, obviously they changed their mind and decided to turn it into an expansion after all. A small one, and because of that, noticably CHEAPER than your avarage game expansion, but they turned it into an expansion. I don't call that backflipping. I call that upgrading.

 

And I will be more than happy to agree with you when they tell us what they're now doing differently and when that is on the level of an actual expansion. Bonus points if they do so before Jan 7.

 

 

They won't.

[Kalfear]

Except that he does NOT say it's free. That's the interviewer voicing his assumptions. James Ohlen does say a few times that it's not going to be an expansion, well, obviously they changed their mind and decided to turn it into an expansion after all. A small one, and because of that, noticably CHEAPER than your avarage game expansion, but they turned it into an expansion. I don't call that backflipping. I call that upgrading.

 

.

 

Let me guess

 

You put peanut butter on a slice a bread and someone else puts jam on a second slice

 

and you still think its only a peanut butter sandwich

 

Cause THATS EXACTLY WHAT YOUR CLAIMING

 

You want one person to lay it all out for you in a nice formated version

 

Figure it out

 

EA STATEMENT #1: Subscribers will never be charged for content updates

EA STATEMENT #2: Makeb is a Content update, not a expansion

 

1+1 really does = 2

 

Oh and if you didnt know the LONG STANDING STATEMENT of #1, stop arguing as you are NOT in full control of the FACTS.

 

To quote a different poster from you side of the issue (in this very thread)

 

 

How do you people function on the planet Earth when you fail so badly at ... .

[Goretzu]

That's the problem, they can't do it.

They still don't know how much content will be gutted from this "expansion" to pad the next update that hits.

 

If you been here long enough you know that Makeb was to be 1.5 and have Cathar. F2P came and wiped that away and it became 1.4, 1.5, 1.6 and the foreseeable 1.7 and maybe even 1.8 before we finally get Makeb

 

Yeah that is a possiblitity.

[ztee]

This is such a non issue, i dont know why people are getting upset.

 

Im just glad that servers are full again, people are still playing and NEW content is being delivered.

 

Some people are just hard to please i guess. If you are so stuck up on the principles, then why are you still here?

 

EDIT: On top of that, if you are enjoying the game still - whats the problem? This is real first world problems right here .....

Edited January 1, 2013 by ztee

[Goretzu]

In all honesty, I remember Makeb just being mentioned as future content... I think some people have the weirdest memories and misconceptions about future content and then get really bent out of shape when things don't turn out that way. The only definite fact we were told that didn't turn out true, to my knowledge, was that we were told it would be coming this year, which it won't.

 

Only thing that bothers me about Makeb is that I know too little about it to want to pre-order. The details are scant and the content we are given sounds bare minimum for even a cheap expansion.

 

And that

[Thaed]

This is such a non issue, i dont know why people are getting upset.

 

Im just glad that servers are full again, people are still playing and NEW content is being delivered.

 

Some people are just hard to please i guess. If you are so stuck up on the principles, then why are you still here?

 

EDIT: On top of that, if you are enjoying the game still - whats the problem? This is real first world problems right here .....

 

Simply put, I'd like to enjoy it more and I'd like to continue enjoying it beyond finishing the class stories (and even those are beginning to drag with me doing the filler content between them; the only reason I'm still subbed is so my exp gain isn't kneecapped).

 

An addition of a new game feature, simple or otherwise (*cough*Pazzaak*cough*), would go a long way to restoring faith with me that the game will continue to evolve, rather than stagnate by following the exact same op/fp/wz formula for endgame.

 

Also, it's worrying that this is considered an expansion, yet there is no expansion to our class stories, I guarentee that's something that would get people to resubscribe, if only for a month.

[SithVeritas]

Though I agree with everyone Thaed said and share the POV most of the people on this forum have, I already pre-ordered ROTHC.

 

Why?

 

ROTHC is going to a manifestation of what BioWare envisions for this game, without anything to hide behind this time.

 

No layoffs, no mysterious 4/5 month silence, no F2P conversion that takes up resources, no other BS.

My point is, this time they have no excuses to throw in our face if this turns out to be utterly dissatisfying.

It's the last chance I'm giving them.

[Monoth]

The first thing you need to come to terms with is when the Doctors left they took the heart and soul of Bioware with them.

 

It was the Doctors vision that all content updates or expansions be part of the monthly fee. Unfortunately adding Biowares great story telling and cinematics with dated MMO mechanics was a big mistake and subscriptions plummeted. I think most will agree the story aspect of SWTOR was great, but using MMO mechanics that are 10+ years old just makes the game extremely boring outside of your class story.

Edited January 2, 2013 by Monoth

[SithVeritas]

The first thing you need to come to terms with is when the Doctors left they took the heart and soul of Bioware with them.

 

It was their vision that all content updates or expansions be part of the monthly fee. Unfortunately adding Biowares great story telling and cinematics with dated MMO mechanics was a big mistake and subscriptions plummeted. I think most will agree the story aspect of SWTOR was great, but using MMO mechanics that are 10+ years old just makes the game extremely boring outside of your class story.

 

I agree I guess.

 

But I love Star Wars enough to give them one last chance with ROTHC. If it's just more of the same, I'm out.

[Arkerus]

The price isn't changing. The game and the business has changed. All the threads in the world will change nothing. Too many people have already purchased it at $10. Nothing is changing.

 

You either accept this reality and talk about the game constructively or you can complain and moan and nothing happens. Welcome to real life.

Edited January 2, 2013 by Arkerus

[Master-Nala]

Let's just buy into the "Bioware/EA" lied, drumbeat. OK, let's say they did. What are you going to do about it? They are charging for the content update/DLC/expansion. Stop giving them money. Play something else. Or just buy the darn thing and move on with your life.

[Lungbutter]

My question is why do people think that a fully voiced planet with 5 levels to gain not worth $10?

 

Forget the peurile hissy fit he said she said it's not worth the emotional expediture.

[TheSeventhJedi]

Let's just buy into the "Bioware/EA" lied, drumbeat. OK, let's say they did. What are you going to do about it? They are charging for the content update/DLC/expansion. Stop giving them money. Play something else. Or just buy the darn thing and move on with your life.

 

Spot on. I hate to say it, but the only way to get to these people is to vote with your wallet.

 

"I'm pissed off! This isn't what I want! Here's 15$ assuming I haven't dropped any cash on the cartel shop!"

BWEA hears, "Here's 15$ - cartel shop!"

 

I loved Dragon Age. Played the crap out of it, bought a couple DLCs, preordered Dragon Age 2.

Dragon Age 2 was - well - Dragon Age 2. Played it once. No DLC. No preorders. Probably won't even give Dragon Age 3 a chance.

 

I love Mass Effect 1 & 2. Played them more than probably any other game. Bought all the DLC. Preordered everything the second it was possible to do so. Hell, I even bought merch.

Mass Effect 3 was a travesty. Played it once. No DLC. I heard Mass Effect 4 is in production - and care zero percent. Won't preorder - probably won't even play it.

 

See where I'm going? If everyone who played these games felt similarly burned, and took similar action - they'd have no choice but to change their business tactics or go out of business. That started to happen with this game - over a million customers voted with their wallet, and they changed their business tactics to stay afloat. If the majority of people vote with their wallet on Makeb, they'll change. Otherwise, they won't. Don't make a thread about why you're disappointed - that won't get you anywhere with something like this. When you unsubscribe, there's a place you can fill in a reason why - that's where this thread goes.

 

Don't want to unsubscribe? Then it doesn't bother you that much and you've wasted your time.

[tands]

I have read a lot of posts about the latest annoucnement about the expansion/dlc or whatever it's called and I agree with both sides. I'm not concerned about the price. I would like to get a little more information about it before I buy it.

Other than the new planet + 5 level cap inc. and the faction sotrylines that may involve alliging with the hutts at the end. I would like to know what else they have planned and am hoping that Bioware when they return will be open minded on providing more info especailly in reagards to the update, I'm positive it may not happen but am not sure what the future will bring.

 

It would also be nice at least in my opinion if they were able to get the Crash to Desktop/ Memory leak issue fixed. I have 9 50's, my play time has decreased significantly since I finished my class mission mainly due to the contant 2 hour crash to desktop.