I'm feeling Nickel and Dimed by Makeb

[Aelaias]

Far be it from me to imply that anyone does. Do you think they will care if several thousands subscribers leave? Also, you still haven't indicated any sort of comprehension of the point I made there. And as far as "we don't know yet but they said that there is way more to the expansion than they have revealed", you go ahead and pre-order based on that. Edited December 22, 2012 by Aelaias

[GrandMike]

We don't know yet but we've been told there is a lot more to the expansion than they revealed. Hey, if they come out and say its just makeb and nothing else, then even I might quit. But until then I assume they aren't just making crap up for the hell of it. I don't instantly assume they are lying to us. But then again, I'm not an angsty video gamer who has to make my self importance on the forums.

 

Yah, there might be OP and FP, and that it would be equal to what was supposed to come in Makeb content update.

 

They lied about so many things since launch (including this non expansion content update) that their word has 0 weight. You act as if you werent here lol.

 

Even fanbois said it: all deals are off and nothing they say has any weight

 

Far be it from me to imply that anyone does. Do you think they will care if several thousands subscribers leave? And you still haven't indicated any sort of comprehension of the point I made there. And as far as "we don't know yet but they said that there is way more to the expansion than they have revealed", you go ahead and pre-order based on that.

 

Well, they obviously dont care that few millions left, but hey, whos counting any more

Edited December 22, 2012 by GrandMike

[DorkTrooper]

Regardless, I realize that when this content is released, I will be making a final decision to accept the new "pay us 10 bucks when we tell you to" business model or leave the game I enjoy playing forever.

 

No, you'll be paying more than $10 for waiting to see exactly what the content entails, if you do indeed buy it then.

[DigitalDreamz]

Industry standard basically. Raise the level cap, add some content, charge some money. You should be able to decide if that level of service is ok for you. If not, no one is asking for you to stay. No one cares if you leave over 10 dollars.

 

Two things.

 

First:

 

Yes EA does care, stop brown nosing for them. He leaves, he takes his wallet with him. Realize that with over two million copies sold and WAY WAY less than a million subscribers today (actually sub numbers so low they were embarrassed to announce them) the subscribers have actually become a minority. There are more purchasers who've taken their money elsewhere than who've stayed. Why? Because there are road blocks to progress such as yourself. I'm sure Bioware just LOVES when you and all the other apologists say "leave" and they see less money in the cartel market, less sub numbers and less people buying the expansion.

 

If there was one person that I would NOT TAKE advice of 'industry standard in MMOs' it would be you. No offence, you are not a Bioware or EA employee so please don't try to act as mr. professional MMO guru.

 

Second:

 

Box in release = 60$

Now - Free

 

Sub fee - 15 bucks

Now - free to level to 50

 

Makeb - Free in June

Now - 10 to 20 bucks.

 

So for people who've been here since day one the money you paid did not return to developing this product. It went to appeal to people who didn't pay a f*** thing.

 

Think about this for a minute if you have been here since day one:

 

Box: $60 + Sub: $15 (x12) = 180.

Total = $240

 

So many people have given Bioware $240 dollars so they can turn around and put resources into a free market and getting players who've already said they hate the game. Good leadership imo.

[Arkerus]

Yah, there might be OP and FP, and that it would be equal to what was supposed to come in Makeb content update.

 

They lied about so many things since launch (including this non expansion contnt update) that their word has 0 weight. You act as if you werent here lol.

 

Even fanbois said it: all deals are off and nothing they say has any weight

 

 

 

Well, they obviously dont care that few millions left, but hey, whose counting any more

 

I've never felt lied to. The whole game model changed. The business model changed. Some of these guys lost their whole staff. When the game changes companies have to adapt.

 

I see nothing wrong with the model they have proposed except the ship parts. I have posted about how I disagreed with that.

[GrandMike]

I've never felt lied to. The whole game model changed. The business model changed. Some of these guys lost their whole staff. When the game changes companies have to adapt.

 

I see nothing wrong with the model they have proposed except the ship parts. I have posted about how I disagreed with that.

 

Thats your PoV, my Pov is:

 

Clean your own ****, THEN you can ask for more money on top what ive alreay paid.

 

And you never felt lied to? rofl, ok man

Edited December 22, 2012 by GrandMike

[Arkerus]

Two things.

 

First:

 

Yes EA does care, stop brown nosing for them. He leaves, he takes his wallet with him. Realize that with over two million copies sold and WAY WAY less than a million subscribers today (actually sub numbers so low they were embarrassed to announce them) the subscribers have actually become a minority. There are more purchasers who've taken their money elsewhere than who've stayed. Why? Because there are road blocks to progress such as yourself. I'm sure Bioware just LOVES when you and all the other apologists say "leave" and they see less money in the cartel market, less sub numbers and less people buying the expansion.

 

If there was one person that I would NOT TAKE advice of 'industry standard in MMOs' it would be you. No offence, you are not a Bioware or EA employee so please don't try to act as mr. professional MMO guru.

 

Second:

 

Box in release = 60$

Now - Free

 

Sub fee - 15 bucks

Now - free to level to 50

 

Makeb - Free in June

Now - 10 to 20 bucks.

 

So for people who've been here since day one the money you paid did not return to developing this product. It went to appeal to people who didn't pay a f*** thing.

 

Think about this for a minute if you have been here since day one:

 

Box: $60 + Sub: $15 (x12) = 180.

Total = $240

 

So many people have given Bioware $240 dollars so they can turn around and put resources into a free market and getting players who've already said they hate the game. Good leadership imo.

 

Lol. This is just too funny. I've been telling people forever to stop making analyst decisions for them when you don't even work there.

 

Sorry that 10 bucks isn't a big deal to me and that I'm more than willing to pay that now that the business has changed. I don't feel ripped off, at all.

 

 

So what are you saying? You are the industry guru? You know that this won't work? If I was a betting man I would say Makeb will be fine at 10 bucks and the game live on.

[DigitalDreamz]

Lol. This is just too funny. I've been telling people forever to stop making analyst decisions for them when you don't even work there.

 

Sorry that 10 bucks isn't a big deal to me and that I'm more than willing to pay that now that the business has changed. I don't feel ripped off, at all.

 

 

So what are you saying? You are the industry guru? You know that this won't work? If I was a betting man I would say Makeb will be fine at 10 bucks and the game live on.

 

"...the game will live on" lol

 

So if 10 bucks isn't a big deal can I sell you a piece of paper and say 'Just wait and see the artwork is the best ever!!" ?

 

Why wouldn't you buy it? It's only 10 bucks? And you can take my word for it that the artwork WILL appear don't you worry. If in a few months I say "lol nah no artwork on the paper" you shouldn't get upset k? Cause according to your logic you haven't felt lied to by me.

 

Or how about you pay for my expansion while I pay for another game. Since of course you don't mind handing Bioware money with no knowledge of what you're getting why stop at only one expansion purchase? Make it two, three heck twenty! Then I can take my ten bucks and wisely use it where I see value for it.

Edited December 22, 2012 by DigitalDreamz

[GrandMike]

"...the game will live on" lol

 

So if 10 bucks isn't a big deal can I sell you a piece of paper and say 'Just wait and see the artwork is the best ever!!" ?

 

Why wouldn't you buy it? It's only 10 bucks? And you can take my word for it that the artwork WILL appear don't you worry. If in a few months I say "lol nah no artwork on the paper" you shouldn't get upset k? Cause according to your logic you haven't felt lied to by me.

 

Or how about you pay for my expansion while I pay for another game. Since of course you don't mind handing Bioware money with no knowledge of what you're getting why stop at only one expansion purchase? Make it two, three heck twenty! Then I can take my ten bucks and wisely use it where I see value for it.

 

Hey, count me in on free expansion, heck, its only 10 bucks

 

They could throw in few months sub too. Its only measly 15/month, i spent that much on handful of pretzels yesterday

Edited December 22, 2012 by GrandMike

[Trenter]

"...the game will live on" lol

 

So if 10 bucks isn't a big deal can I sell you a piece of paper and say 'Just wait and see the artwork is the best ever!!" ?

 

Why wouldn't you buy it? It's only 10 bucks? And you can take my word for it that the artwork WILL appear don't you worry. If in a few months I say "lol nah no artwork on the paper" you shouldn't get upset k? Cause according to your logic you haven't felt lied to by me.

 

Or how about you pay for my expansion while I pay for another game. Since of course you don't mind handing Bioware money with no knowledge of what you're getting why stop at only one expansion purchase? Make it two, three heck twenty! Then I can take my ten bucks and wisely use it where I see value for it.

 

If it's new content from someone whose work you've previously enjoyed, why wouldn't you pre-order? We know the basic plot. We know of some key features. I can't see what point you're trying to go after with this. If my favourite author releases a new book, I pre-order it instantly. I don't have to know everything about the piece beforehand. In fact, I wanna know as little as possible.

[DigitalDreamz]

If it's new content from someone whose work you've previously enjoyed, why wouldn't you pre-order? We know the basic plot. We know of some key features. I can't see what point you're trying to go after with this. If my favourite author releases a new book, I pre-order it instantly. I don't have to know everything about the piece beforehand. In fact, I wanna know as little as possible.

 

Your author told you book was free if you purchased his/her past four books.

You've purchased his/her past four books.

Author then says "lol sorry you're gonna have to pay"

New book is five pages and he's asking 10 bucks.

 

SWTOR:

 

Makeb free for subscribers.

Makeb not free for anyone.

Makeb one zone and 5 levels....that's it.

Edited December 22, 2012 by DigitalDreamz

[Trenter]

Your author told you book was free if you purchased his/her past four books.

You've purchased his/her past four books.

Author then says "lol sorry you're gonna have to pay"

New book is five pages and he's asking 10 bucks.

 

SWTOR:

 

Makeb free for subscribers.

Makeb not free for anyone.

Makeb one zone and 5 levels....that's it.

 

Oh that - I'm not bothered by that in the slightest. They had a completely different business model back then. Had people stayed on for a while and let the game evolve we would've had Makeb for free.

 

Why would the new book be 5 pages?... "That's it?" Weren't you just lecturing a bloke on how he wasn't a BioWare employee and all that? You think it looks good if you pull crap from your rear now and treat it like fact?

Edited December 22, 2012 by Trenter

[GrandMike]

????? When a company usually picks a price point they stick with it for a while or until they change the model. Listening to your customers is usually part of running a business but so is picking a price model. What planet are you on? This is not a difficult concept.

 

What model? F2P has nothing to do with it.

 

And their customers can actually convey to them that making asinine moves is not very good for their health. Its all in good faith.

 

They try to make the game better for all, even you, you just havent figured that one out yet.

 

And you are effectively disrupting that.

Edited December 22, 2012 by GrandMike

[Invictos]

Why don't you go get a job in the industry if you can make a better game?

 

Why don't you go to culinary school before you express an opinion about a restaurant?

 

Why don't you become a Hollywood director before you express an opinion about a movie?

 

Why don't you start up a car company before you express an opinion about an automobile?

 

Your reasoning is often trotted out, and it's always silly, no matter the context. It's an appeal to authority, through which industry pros are automatically presumed correct simply because they're in a given industry -- and that appeal to authority by definition refutes any notion of business competition. After all, customers are the final deciders of a business' success or failure, and customers generally don't have intimate knowledge of the relevant industry. The quoted statement bespeaks, in other words, a profoundly naive and childish rationale, which is ironic because the people who tend to embrace that rationale also implicitly accuse their opponents of naivete, by pointing out the blindingly obvious -- that businesses aren't charities.

 

Of course businesses aren't charities. We all know that. We also, I think, generally agree that $10 or $20 isn't a matter of life and death. Personally, I don't have a problem with Makeb's pricing, but I do feel a little put out generally about EA's apparent new approach to running the game. Some of the prices on the Cartel Market seem silly to me, for example -- ~$15 for a virtual outfit that can only be worn by a single character, can't be transferred, and can't be dyed/retinted? And that comes after Bioware spent a year+ showing us hood-down Jedi armors in trailers and advertisements and never once offered us a viable option for it in the game. (Hell, the Knight's costume in the character creator is still the best looking armor for that class in the game, IMO, and it's still not available. Aesthetically speaking, it's all downhill from the moment you click, "Create character.")

 

For a long time, you could at least argue that the rationale behind giving various classes absolutely ridiculous constraints vis-a-vis their physical appearance had to do with PvP -- and yet as soon as EA thinks it can milk its faithful players for extra cash, Bioware releases adaptive armor that allows any class to look like any other.

 

So anyway, to go back to Makeb: I will buy Makeb. I'm happy to have an extra planet. But I object to the idea that any criticism of a $10 product must imply that the criticizer is a poverty-stricken wastoid. I've spent about $250 in the last year on this game, and I continue to pay $15 per month; any purchasing decision I make going forward must be framed in that context. Yes, MMOs provide very good value in terms of entertainment/hour -- but a lot of MMOs go out of their way to inflate the hours too. And a lot of MMO publishers, of games past and present, seem to be a little less transparently grabby than EA seems intent to become.

[DigitalDreamz]

Oh that - I'm not bothered by that in the slightest. They had a completely different business model back then. Had people stayed on for a while and let the game evolve we would've had Makeb for free.

 

Why would the new book be 5 pages?... "That's it?" Weren't you just lecturing a bloke on how he wasn't a BioWare employee and all that? You think it looks good if you pull crap from your rear now and treat it like fact?

 

I had to ignore one yes-man troll and I'm about to make it a second. I just don't know how much more simpler I could've put that post and yet it's context eluded you. You guys are honestly counter arguing just for the sake of it.

 

We get it, you can be screwed, twisted, rung upside down and have every coin shaken from you. You can be lied to and deceived and that doesn't bother you as you put it. You support the company no matter what. Great, got it.

 

If my last few posts were too confusing for you I'm gonna have to say this may be over your head.

[Nemmar]

Op. Look at it this way:

 

This is an expansion and is expanding your talent trees and skills. This will effectively add a new layer of gameplay to the game that will add to your experience for many months to come (until the next expansion). That is virtually hundreads and hundreads of hours.

 

Just for that this mini-expansion is worth way more than 8 euros/10 dollars. Add to that what will probably be nightmare mode flashpoints and ops. New gear sets and a huge new planet to explore.

 

Not only that, but by buying it you are also sending a message of support to the future of this game. Do you want a full fledged expansion, do you want more content and optimisation? Then support the game.

 

 

 

By the way, to some of the other posters, it fine to hate EA, but who you're trying to hurt here is Bioware and Lucasarts. Maybe you should think about that before you blindly hate. Maybe go hate on the secret world? That is published by EA aswell. Smart up already.

Edited December 23, 2012 by Nemmar

[BraxKedren]

I like the people who moan about those saying the content will be great, because there is no way to know yet. Then to have them turn around and moan because they Assume that Makeb is only a single area. EVERYONE needs to stop and wait until they release more information before making Assumptions.

 

Now, in regards to the cost, this is a game company and things change all the time. Did you read the EULA before you started playing? It strictly states this in there.

 

Also, $10 for a expansion is amazing! Don't like it go to Lotro and enjoy paying $40 for theirs. Go back to WoW and pay the $9.99 for theirs...

 

Don't like it then stop playing the game

[mothear]

Op. Look at it this way:

 

This is an expansion and is expanding your talent trees and skills. This will effectively add a new layer of gameplay to the game that will add to your experience for many months to come (until the next expansion). That is virtually hundreads and hundreads of hours.

 

Just for that this mini-expansion is worth way more than 8 euros/10 dollars. Add to that what will probably be nightmare mode flashpoints and ops. New gear sets and a huge new planet to explore.

 

By the way, to some of the other posters, it fine to hate EA, but who you're trying to hurt here is Bioware and Lucasarts. Maybe you should think about that before you blindly hate. Maybe go hate on the secret world? That is published by EA aswell. Smart up already.

 

The reason I believe there won't be an Op is because this purchase is available to non-subscribers and BW have to be careful, given their pricing model, not to sell things to people that they cannot use. They could give non-subscribers a free weekly pass with the expansion, or make it exempt from the pass model, otherwise I find its inclusion very unlikely.

[darklordpotter]

Op. Look at it this way:

 

This is an expansion and is expanding your talent trees and skills. This will effectively add a new layer of gameplay to the game that will add to your experience for many months to come (until the next expansion). That is virtually hundreads and hundreads of hours.

 

Just for that this mini-expansion is worth way more than 8 euros/10 dollars. Add to that what will probably be nightmare mode flashpoints and ops. New gear sets and a huge new planet to explore.

 

Not only that, but by buying it you are also sending a message of support to the future of this game. Do you want a full fledged expansion, do you want more content and optimisation? Then support the game.

 

 

 

By the way, to some of the other posters, it fine to hate EA, but who you're trying to hurt here is Bioware and Lucasarts. Maybe you should think about that before you blindly hate. Maybe go hate on the secret world? That is published by EA aswell. Smart up already.

 

Bioware doesn't exist as a separate company it's a EA brand name (an increasingly low value one judging by recent actions). Lucasarts is a subdivision of Disney and Disney is a big, bad corporation and can cope with with a few people kind of indirectly, maybe, sorta insulting something that was greenlight long before they bought the company.

 

Besides why would I "hate on" TSW I've never played it and care nothing about who publishes it. Believe me if ToR was published by Activision, Eidos or 2K I would be just a upset about the bugs and appalling customer service as I am with this EA product.

 

Incidentally raising concerns about or expressing an opinion about =/= "hating on"

[Vitas]

I really think we can only judge this expansion once it gets closer to release and more features have been revealed. Then should we show our concern whether it holds up to our expectations. Edited December 23, 2012 by Vitas

[Valethar]

My main issue is the way they're hyping a minor DLC as an 'expansion'. unless there's going to be a LOT more added to RotHC, it doesn't qualify as what is generally considered an expansion in the MMO world.

 

I do agree however, with the complaints about charging us at all for Makeb, when it was promised as a free content update several times, then stuffed into RotHC to give the impression that it's an 'expansion' and charging for it. You can't promise someone something at no cost, then turn around and bundle it as part of a different package with a price tag attached, and not expect those people to be happy with the bait & switch.

[HerrAwesome]

I think alot of people are looking at Bioware track record of small, buggy, and generally terrible patches in the past. All we have to go on about this xpac is their past stuff and their past stuff is kinda lackluster.

 

That being said they are already charging people for it on nothing but promises...so until we see more promises fulfilled we will maintain that the only thing in the xpac is what they have said so far.

This. Past behavior is the best predictor for current and future behavior.

[Shingara]

small update???? small update? if this were an update, it would be the bigger update ever in all the MMO.

 

this is a mini expansion or DCL. 10 BUCKS? that is nothing, pay it and QQ please.

 

dont wanna deflate your ideals on believing everything hickmanware say but at the E3 presentation they also said legacy was the biggest free game update in the history of mmos................

 

ow and this might be 10 bux for subbers but twist your mind around this, section x plus hk is $14 for f2p players, makeb is $20 for f2p. mull over that a bit.

Edited December 23, 2012 by Shingara

[AboB]

*sigh*

It really does seem that way, OP.

I get the feeling that if pazaak were to be implemented, we would have to pay for it

If Cross-Servers are implemented, we would have to pay for it

If Chat Bubbles are implemented, we would have to pay for it

and the list goes on....

The optimism that came with this game is not eternal... I just hope that the game wasn't built with a "turnover rate" in mind. It's really starting to feel like it.

[CrazyOldMystic]

Are we not junping the gun here. If it turns out to be a basic plant with planet,missions, faction missions, and class missions with more dailies. Then I will be the first to say that the op is correct.

 

One thing people are not talking about is swg added a whole planet with their expansion. So lets look at kashyyyk in swg. Yes it was one world, but no matter how many times I went through it, I always found something fun about it, even if I completed all the missions it had to offer. My point is should we not wait and see if they come out with a similar world, that has the star wars feel to it?

 

I think Bioware, Devs, and EA got the message loud and clear after launch that these mini, restricted worlds, were not going to cut it. No matter how good they looked. So it may be one planet, but it might be something completely new never seen in swtor, and something that pvers, pvpers, and rpers can use for years to come for fun. If they stick the same route they went with the other worlds, then it will a dead world in about a month after launch, and once everyones done with it. No one is going to want to come back. The devs will have a wave of pure rage for more content to contend with if that happens. I could write a whole page on why I enjoyed kashyyyk but I dont think it would do any good.