I'm feeling Nickel and Dimed by Makeb

[Arkerus]

Got any evidence they did any of those things? If not why say it?

 

I don't, nor am I required to provide any. I am waiting for more details on the expanion to emerge. If its substantial then I don't think anyone has anything to complain about.

 

If sites like TORHEAD or Dulfy confirm its the exact same stuff then go ahead, complain. I reserve judgement for the final product.

 

I will say this though, the original Makeb data didn't include a level cap increase. They obviously had to go back and retool the planet for level changes. We know they are working on it. I highly doubt everyone is just sitting around, drinking coffee, laughing at the forums.

Edited December 23, 2012 by Arkerus

[Nitblade]

Do other games really give out expansions for free? That's not what I'd expect. My assumption was that I was playing a subscription to log onto the servers and play the existing game, not everything they ever add to it forever. That seems like a financially untenable idea, especially considering the amount of story and voice acting it will contain if it's anything like existing planets. If people want new story, which most do, they're going to have to pay for it's creation.

 

I played Lineage 2 for a few years and while I played i got 7 Major expansions for only the cost of my monthly subscription. We are/have paid that expansion already every single subscriber of the game since launch. Makeb was in development pretty much since launch, that is a very long time, then dumped on the back burner for the Cartel Cash cow, and is now months later then should have been (should have hit autumn 2012 not spring 2013)

 

It ain't the 10$, it's the continued broken promises

[Anti_Bodies]

First of all, I am not angry because of 10 bucks. As i said many times before, its like two package of cigarettes or one lunch for me.

 

BUT, i have questions:

 

1) Why the hell i cant buy it by CARTEL COINS? Cause it would be technically free for subs, saving complimentary coins? A little insulting to loyal customers, i think.

 

2) Some people using TIMECARDS, because they dont have credit cards, or they simply dont want internet banking. Why i can't pay something there by days from timecards, what is technically SAME pack of money?

 

3) I cant buy PHYSICAL expansion. I know, 1 planet and 5 lvls isnt much worth to do physical packages for real shops, but its better than push people to only one way to give you money.

 

IMO best thing you can do, Bioware people, is allowing people to buy this 'expansion' by your precious super nice new Cartel Coins. after whole circus about F2P and cartel coins.

 

1. They don't want people using CC because that is for digital items wheras if they make it cash only they can directly get the money. In other words, they don't lose anything when people buy from cartel market but they do lose a direct $10 if people use their complimentary coins on it. Kind of hard to explain but I hope you get it from their side even if it seems like a rip.

 

2. With physical expansions money has to go to manufactuers and retail stores. Typically when a company sells an x-box game for example, for $60, they only make something like $5-15 profit on it, assuming they sell enough to make a profit.

 

In addition, they are discounting it for subs but their wouldn't be anyway to do that in store. It's more like DLC then a real expansion anyway. If it was a $40 expo I might expect to see it in stores.

[Trevalon]

[quote=Anti_Bodies;5625751

 

]1. They don't want people using CC because that is for digital items wheras if they make it cash only they can directly get the money. In other words, they don't lose anything when people buy from cartel market but they do lose a direct $10 if people use their complimentary coins on it. Kind of hard to explain but I hope you get it from their side even if it seems like a rip.

 

This is a ridiculous answer. Thats like getting a giftcard to best buy and going to get a game only to get the the register and they tell you you cant use your gift card on said game. No one does this...not one single company in the entire world. Cartel coins are a MONETARY item, you pay RL money for those coins - to not honor them as real life money (as they are not with this xpac) is completely unethical imo. Also considering every other cash shop MMO in existence allows people to buy xpacs with their games cash means that SWTOR is completely outside the normal for this and it makes them look even worse.

Edited December 23, 2012 by Trevalon

[mothear]

This is a ridiculous answer. Thats like getting a giftcard to best buy and going to get a game only to get the the register and they tell you you cant use your gift card on said game. No one does this...not one single company in the entire world. Cartel coins are a MONETARY item, you pay RL money for those coins - to not honor them as real life money (as they are not with this xpac) is completely unethical imo. Also considering every other cash shop MMO in existence allows people to buy xpacs with their games cash means that SWTOR is completely outside the normal for this and it makes them look even worse.

IMO it's so that they can pad the December quarterly figures, no other reason.

Edited December 23, 2012 by mothear

[fung]

Glad i found this thread.I left swtor a long time ago for some other shiny new game at the time, but have recently returned.I had no idea all these shenanigans were going on.I almost pre-ordered the so called expansion without reading up on it.Thank you all for saving me some money.I was wondering what happened to all the servers.I guess when i finally hit 50 ill go find something else to hold my interest.

[MiraniSedai]

Glad i found this thread.I left swtor a long time ago for some other shiny new game at the time, but have recently returned.I had no idea all these shenanigans were going on.I almost pre-ordered the so called expansion without reading up on it.Thank you all for saving me some money.I was wondering what happened to all the servers.I guess when i finally hit 50 ill go find something else to hold my interest.

 

I take a different tack on it.

 

If when I hit 50 I am still enjoying the game, THEN I will buy the expansion. If not so be it.

[darklordpotter]

IMO it's so that they can pad the December quarterly figures, no other reason.

 

I'm amazed this one survived the massive post cull they've done. Not that I disagree with the statement mind they just seem to be being a bit 1984 about their moderation these days - posts and threads don't merely get locked they never existed.

 

But yes given the timing of the announcement and the few details they are willing to provide (like no release date or complete feature list) it does appear they have a shareholders meeting second to third week in January and old Johnny boy needs some better numbers.

[Glorthox]

IMO this is just a content patch and not considered an expansion. A true expansion would be way longer and worth paying the extra money to obtain. But spending 10 bucks before jan 7th for subscribers and 20 bucks after is just a big BAD move on biowares part. I have never heard of any company charging people for a mere content patch. If it was 3 more chapters to the classes story and evolving companion story then i'd be one of the first people in line to buy the expansion. But regrettably it isn't.

[mothear]

I'm amazed this one survived the massive post cull they've done. Not that I disagree with the statement mind they just seem to be being a bit 1984 about their moderation these days - posts and threads don't merely get locked they never existed.

 

But yes given the timing of the announcement and the few details they are willing to provide (like no release date or complete feature list) it does appear they have a shareholders meeting second to third week in January and old Johnny boy needs some better numbers.

 

Yeah I got an infraction for saying:-

 

Congratulations on the 'How to lose all credibility in one sentence' award for 23/12/2012.

 

Whilst thay leave in posts like:-

 

Quit whining. If you want it, buy it. If you don't, don't. The constant wailing of people who think everything in life should be free is ridiculous. Companies exist to make money, not give you stuff because you think you deserve it. Get over it and either pay for it or quit playing and go find another game that is going to charge you three times as much for every expansion and put them out at much longer intervals.

 

I believe some training is in order

 

Probably get another infraction for posting this too.

[HoboWithAStick]

I feel the same, I don't wanna pay for something that should be free. Even said it was going to be free at one point, I know things have changed but is this the way the game goes now? It seems to me like they are out of content after makeb as well so are they cashing in now because later they are going to have nothing more? Honestly though makeb, additional levels, the new space missions, cathar were all supose to have already happen this year. Now we are getting these little patches and the one big patch is gone with addition to having to pay for some of it?

[ruminate]

People predicted TOR would go F2P before the end of 2012.

People are predicting TOR will go the way of E&B and Sims Online before the end of 2013.

[Katsuragisama]

People predicted TOR would go F2P before the end of 2012.

People are predicting TOR will go the way of E&B and Sims Online before the end of 2013.

 

Well, when you look at the fact that they advertising clipping armor from the cash shop, it really doesnt feel like they care about the game any more. They're not even trying to make it look decent before they rush it out the door. And if that's the type of quality we can expect from them, that might be correct.

[timmyw]

I am a little bit confused on my feelings about this. I recently started playing again just to level another character.

 

On the one hand It is only ten dollars. That isn't much. It is supposed to be a fairly large content update from what I can imagine, because imagination is the only thing I have to go on, there aren't many facts about this content update. But it seems fairly substantial.

 

On the other hand why do I have this horrible sinking feeling in the very deepest recesses of my gullet? Could it be the Muffin and Coffee I had for lunch?? No. I bought some cartel coins (And boy did my partner go off when she found out about that.....She actually cancelled my account and sent EA a nasty message) because I wanted to support the game. Then opening those packs and getting absolutely nothing made me think perhaps my ex partner was correct.

 

I just don't know. EA have sucked a lot of money out of me this last year and I have had some pretty crappy experiences. There comes a point where you just have to say enough is enough. I think I will wait to purchase this "expansion" and see what it's like first. If it's worth ten bucks then it will be worth twenty.

 

But that little niggly feeling is telling me not to. I think this time I will listen to it and wait.

 

*Edit* I think the poster above me touches on an excellent point. I hadn't played for two months and came back and they had this cartel shop with overpriced re-skinned models and lucky dip prizes. But the same old annoying bugs were still there. I think you guys at EA should really be taking a step back and before you start charging people for new content you should be fixing the game.

Edited December 24, 2012 by timmyw
Left out a point or two.

[grombrinda]

I am a little bit confused on my feelings about this. I recently started playing again just to level another character.

 

On the one hand It is only ten dollars. That isn't much. It is supposed to be a fairly large content update from what I can imagine, because imagination is the only thing I have to go on, there aren't many facts about this content update. But it seems fairly substantial.

 

On the other hand why do I have this horrible sinking feeling in the very deepest recesses of my gullet? Could it be the Muffin and Coffee I had for lunch?? No. I bought some cartel coins (And boy did my partner go off when she found out about that.....She actually cancelled my account and sent EA a nasty message) because I wanted to support the game. Then opening those packs and getting absolutely nothing made me think perhaps my ex partner was correct.

 

I just don't know. EA have sucked a lot of money out of me this last year and I have had some pretty crappy experiences. There comes a point where you just have to say enough is enough. I think I will wait to purchase this "expansion" and see what it's like first. If it's worth ten bucks then it will be worth twenty.

 

But that little niggly feeling is telling me not to. I think this time I will listen to it and wait.

 

*Edit* I think the poster above me touches on an excellent point. I hadn't played for two months and came back and they had this cartel shop with overpriced re-skinned models and lucky dip prizes. But the same old annoying bugs were still there. I think you guys at EA should really be taking a step back and before you start charging people for new content you should be fixing the game.

 

Oh man to lose you partner over this.....now you know , don't buy the hype.

Sorry for your loss.

[timmyw]

Oh man to lose you partner over this.....now you know , don't buy the hype.

Sorry for your loss.

 

She was using my credit card for nefarious purposes, reading my email/txts and other things we won't go into here. Be happy for me not sorry.

 

No, saying that was to offer the point that perhaps I was wrong to spend 20 dollars on some cartel coins for a game, only to receive absolutely nothing for that expenditure. Left me with an interesting feeling, like I had just been ripped off. And also that perhaps she might have been right about the waste of money despite how I felt about it when I purchased them.

[Katsuragisama]

I am a little bit confused on my feelings about this. I recently started playing again just to level another character.

 

On the one hand It is only ten dollars. That isn't much. It is supposed to be a fairly large content update from what I can imagine, because imagination is the only thing I have to go on, there aren't many facts about this content update. But it seems fairly substantial.

 

On the other hand why do I have this horrible sinking feeling in the very deepest recesses of my gullet? Could it be the Muffin and Coffee I had for lunch?? No. I bought some cartel coins (And boy did my partner go off when she found out about that.....She actually cancelled my account and sent EA a nasty message) because I wanted to support the game. Then opening those packs and getting absolutely nothing made me think perhaps my ex partner was correct.

 

I just don't know. EA have sucked a lot of money out of me this last year and I have had some pretty crappy experiences. There comes a point where you just have to say enough is enough. I think I will wait to purchase this "expansion" and see what it's like first. If it's worth ten bucks then it will be worth twenty.

 

But that little niggly feeling is telling me not to. I think this time I will listen to it and wait.

 

*Edit* I think the poster above me touches on an excellent point. I hadn't played for two months and came back and they had this cartel shop with overpriced re-skinned models and lucky dip prizes. But the same old annoying bugs were still there. I think you guys at EA should really be taking a step back and before you start charging people for new content you should be fixing the game.

 

I think that's the approach everyone wants them to take. But instead of fixing the bugs in the coming months between now and the expansion, the only thing I have absolute confidence in is that they will surely add more cartel packs and cash shop gear. Fixing bugs? Not a shred of confidence.

 

And I also think thats the approach many people are taking with the expansion. I recently came back for F2P to get my CC, and I had an urge to level an operative. But since coming back, and seeing all of the old bugs, while they continued to break more features, I had just about had it. And after all of that, paying for a content update was the final slap in the face this time around.

 

It seems my patience and forgiving for this game/company is growing thinner, and the amount of time I remain a subscriber is getting shorter and shorter. I knew I should have canceled my sub before it renewed a couple weeks back, but I had a bit more faith left. With Makeb and the Life Day items only being obtainable through the cash shop, I unsubbed.

 

The good thing is, when I unsubbed, I told them that if I want to spend $10, I'll give it to Planetside 2 or Guild Wars 2 instead. Especially with PS2 never lacking in entertainment, and no base take over is the same as the last time I did it. >.>

[Goretzu]

I would like to point out; regardless of what is actually released with the initial Rise of the Hutt Cartel expansion pack, no-one ever said that was the end of the deal and that's all you get.

 

Bioware has been slowly but steadily adding content: Flashpoints, Warzones, Operations, Daily Areas, the Legacy System and Free to Play throughout the year without expecting payments beyond the initial subscription fee. (My opinion is that the the Cartel Market is really just a convenience/vanity add-on right now)

 

No doubt level 51-55 versions of the same will materialise throughout next year, as well as the same continued support and content for everything before level 50, it's not like the company will (or actually could) forget about those players that haven't or won't pay for the Rise of the Hutt Cartel content.

 

I don't think anything will appear for the sub 55 PvE content-wise, there's just not the profit in it , even if it does add a lot to the quality of the game.

 

You have to remember this isn't a quality product now, its a fire sale, and adjust your expecatations accordingly.

[Draloch]

I don't think of the new level cap as a benefit. I think it's more something that they came up with as a way of putting this content patch behind a paywall. With no level cap, the 10 dollars would be optional. If you want to play the planet, you pay 10 dollars for it. If you don't want to play it (or don't want to pay), then you just don't get it and it doesn't really matter - you just lose access to a presumed daily area and maybe a flashpoint if that ends up being part of it.

 

They're raising the level cap so that they can force everyone who plays the game to buy Makeb. They won't be expanding the game at the level 50 tier any more, so if you want to benefit from your subscription, you MUST fork over an additional 10 dollars.

 

I understand that they are under the microscope of the EA shareholders and it's a very tough position to be in. Most of us heard the "miss" comment from the last quarterly loud and clear.

 

The thing is, if you can't treat your subscribers the way subscribers are supposed to be treated, then what the heck are you doing running an MMO in the first place? If you want to embrace free to play, then convert the game to free to play and charge for everything. If you want the guaranteed revenue stream of 12-15 bucks a month from subscriptions, then you really should be treating those subscribers with respect.

 

After having a couple weeks to consider this issue, I've decided that I won't be supporting this new and unprecented business model. I'm a responsible consumer and there are competing products out there that I can spend my entertainment budget on. When my current 6 month subscription wears out, I'll be converting to month to month and as soon as I'm unable to download a patch because it's locked behind a paywall, I'll unsubscribe and find another game to spend my money on.

 

I have nothing against the quality of the game and there's a small part of me that hopes the community team will compile a summary of the torrent of blowback threads from the past couple weeks, which will convince the business group at Bioware to change course. I'm in a guild that has been successful with the Operations content and I hate to leave those guys, but as we get closer to the paywall lock and there's no reversal of policy on charging subscribers, I'll be informing them of my decision so they can find a replacement for me before I go.

 

This is a very sad post for me. I've been playing this game since February of 2011 (fairly early on in beta testing). If not for the unfriendly business structure, I'd still like to play this game for a couple more years at least. My great hope was that I'd play this game until Titan and be ready to move on at that point. It looks like another game will probably have to be that bridge instead. Needless to say, I'm extremely disappointed.

[vctrsone]

I would just like to remind you all about Biowares track record with tor.

 

They have lied at every turn from the redzone stuff to space content to quite recently when they told us Makeb wasnt a paid expansion.

 

The biggest lie of all was "TOR will never go free to play" They said that over and over. itl never go free to play ever dont worry.

 

Bioware is a chronic liar. look at there history..I cant think of a single game devolper who has consistently liad to there customers so much..I cant even think of another business who does that.

 

 

As for Makeb and ther new expansion it looks extremely lack luster and after playing hardcore for the last year I think Ive finally had enough.

 

I noticed the armor it shows the players wearing in the expansion pics is pvp armor recycled.

 

And thats what this expansion is...nothing new just recycled crap weve already seen and at this point everything weve seen so far has been recycled atleast twice.

 

To sum it up there isnt going to be anything we havent already seen in makeb.

 

After a year I think Im finally bored of tor. I was hoping for a grand old expansion not makeb...lol

[Smashbrother]

She was using my credit card for nefarious purposes, reading my email/txts and other things we won't go into here. Be happy for me not sorry.

 

No, saying that was to offer the point that perhaps I was wrong to spend 20 dollars on some cartel coins for a game, only to receive absolutely nothing for that expenditure. Left me with an interesting feeling, like I had just been ripped off. And also that perhaps she might have been right about the waste of money despite how I felt about it when I purchased them.

 

Lol BW clearly states on those cartel packs that there's only a chance at rare loot. It's your own fault for spending money on them, not theirs.

 

Do you ***** when you go play lottery and not win too?

[Holinyx]

so...people are complaining about $10 for an expansion to an MMO? *blink*

 

i've been paying (happily i might add) AT LEAST $20-40 per expansion since 2000. that's 12 years. Maybe i just don't understand because i'm old school and we pay for NEW things? In your opinion, this expansion is "too small" and "it should be free".

 

yeah, tell that to the developer sitting behind a desk for 12 hours a day trying like heck to get you this expansion, tell that person they aren't worth $10.

 

To the people who are complaining: spoiled rotten, the whole lot of you. and get off my lawn !

[darklordpotter]

so...people are complaining about $10 for an expansion to an MMO? *blink*

 

i've been paying (happily i might add) AT LEAST $20-40 per expansion since 2000. that's 12 years. Maybe i just don't understand because i'm old school and we pay for NEW things? In your opinion, this expansion is "too small" and "it should be free".

 

yeah, tell that to the developer sitting behind a desk for 12 hours a day trying like heck to get you this expansion, tell that person they aren't worth $10.

 

To the people who are complaining: spoiled rotten, the whole lot of you. and get off my lawn !

 

Actually the devs were the ones saying it wasn't an expansion and will be free to subs. I'm also betting the comments about expansions mean you're a WoW vet? If so from what I gather comparing any of the expansions to Makeb is just going to massively depress you - cheaper price or not.

[Holinyx]

Never played WoW. I shall not be disappointed because I feel there is nothing "wrong" with Swtor. Your argument is invalid. Now, let's please stay on topic.

[Nemmar]

I think that's the approach everyone wants them to take. But instead of fixing the bugs in the coming months between now and the expansion, the only thing I have absolute confidence in is that they will surely add more cartel packs and cash shop gear. Fixing bugs? Not a shred of confidence.

 

And I also think thats the approach many people are taking with the expansion. I recently came back for F2P to get my CC, and I had an urge to level an operative. But since coming back, and seeing all of the old bugs, while they continued to break more features, I had just about had it. And after all of that, paying for a content update was the final slap in the face this time around.

 

It seems my patience and forgiving for this game/company is growing thinner, and the amount of time I remain a subscriber is getting shorter and shorter. I knew I should have canceled my sub before it renewed a couple weeks back, but I had a bit more faith left. With Makeb and the Life Day items only being obtainable through the cash shop, I unsubbed.

 

The good thing is, when I unsubbed, I told them that if I want to spend $10, I'll give it to Planetside 2 or Guild Wars 2 instead. Especially with PS2 never lacking in entertainment, and no base take over is the same as the last time I did it. >.>

 

I understand the frustration about bugs and i hope they fixe them even though i dont know if they will. But, i DO know that they are going to improve the engine before makeb comes out, starting with the patch that brings back Illum, wich should be hitting in the next 2 months.

 

Honestly, i think you should go give those games a try. I think you will return more enlightened. Even though i felt cheated for spending money on GW2, if its whats needed to clear or vision, then so be it.