What's the difference between an EXPANSION and a PATCH ?

[Foambreaker]

Hmmm.. seen 2 guys with this "opinion". Strange..

 

So we've already had some expansions for free right? new WZ, etc.....

 

That is how every other software market except gaming would see it.

 

New features for free.

[Illeriagera]

This expansion pack is going for $9.99 for subscribers, there is not time limit or pre-order limit to this price for subscribers. Free to play will get it at a cost of $19.99. I also disagree with the OP in that the expansion packs for most games such as WoW, Guild Wars, DoD online, and Everquest all cost upwards of $39.99 and in the Free to play models such as Guild Wars upwards of $49.99 per expansion. While this expansion does not seem in line with the amount of content other expansions for other games has, the price is comparable. I see it as especially comparable seeing how SWTOR gives content such as Warzones, OPs, and armor without the cost of an expansion pack whether subbed or not.

 

In other words, quit ************. If you do not find value in the expansion pack do not buy it. If you aren't happy with the game after you make the decision not to purchase the expansion i suggest finding or going back to a different game. I do not want to see people leave this game since the population determines how long i will continue being able to play, but i get so sick of the horrible communities in MMO's.

[Skyrison]

Well they have stated, in their defense, that they will be releasing a lot more information on the expansion as it nears.

[Stradlin]

What's the difference between an EXPANSION and a PATCH ?

 

In TOR's case, the difference is 10 dollars.

[uniz]

The answer to this question is different for everyone, but we have all seen what a PATCH is in TOR, and I think we all can agree that an EXPANSION should be a lot larger in scope then a PATCH.

 

Now what do I mean by Larger ? I mean Content. Not, man hours, budget, or size of the world. I am talking about GAMEPLAY FEATURES that allows the players to do something fresh and new. Not just a single feature mind you, but many features are required when you throw the word EXPANSION around.

 

Now the Developers can choose to expand Horizontally (New Ideas..<Hard>) , or they can choose to expand Vertically (Build on what you got..<Easy>)

 

But most times, an EXPANSION incorporates BOTH.

 

So based on what I have seen so far with the last several PATCHES ( Update 1.2, 1.3, 1.4, etc ) here is what I am expecting for an EXPANSION.

 

- At least 2 War zones (We normally get a War zone in a Patch, such as our latest one Hypergate.)

- At least 2 Operations (We normally get a Operation in a Patch, such as our latest one HK-51.)

- At least 1 New Race (Normally any expansion in a MMO, offers a new race.)

- At least 1 New Planet ( Depending on the size of the planet and how many objects are recycled.)

- At least 1 New Class ( Normally any expansion in a MMO, offers a new class or offers new ACs for existing class. )

- At least 3 New Skills to existing Classes (Normally any expansion in a MMO, offers new skills that expand class.)

- Including a New Playable Faction ( Without going into the vast SW lore, a third Criminal Faction is doable.)

- Level Cap Increase (This is a staple in MMO expansions and is nothing fancy, new missions are to be expected.)

- New Loot and Gear ( This a staple in MMO expansions, and we are not talking texture palette swaps.)

 

Now that is what I would call a decent $19.99 Expansion Pack. Anything short of that, is a PATCH.

 

EDIT: Let's clear the air, everyone saying it's only 10 dollars. No. It's 10 dollars if you pre-order. If not, the content is valued at 19.99. So Bioware considers the amount of content to be worth $19.99. Most Expansions are $19.99 to $29.99

 

your expectations are too high. you need to stop comparing everything to wow. the word "expansion" will have a new meaning for this game since it is being redefined now by its content. get over your self as soon it will have a new meaning when it comes to this game.

 

not every "expansion" needs races, character classes and skills. this is a wow only mindset. it was and still is unattainable in most mmos even today.

[BadOrb]

Don;t want to be picky, but in story wise, planet based quests (like imps on one and rep on other side) including new fraction, means whole new story, new 8 actors to do voices, 4 new stories, atleast 2 new planets (starting planet+first planet+new fleet+editing ALL shared planets)..

as far as I think it's ridic we have to pay for new content when we pay subs (and it requires f2p to actually pay for game to free to play- I wonder how they will solve it..) it's just few quid... meh

 

Don't forget male and female voice actors for the 8 classes , it's not 8 but 16.

 

I think Wz's and Op's are all part of what we pay a sub for so they will come and I think THIS expansion is worth $9.99 or $19.99. It's especially worth it for how I have been playing the game , i wanted a level cap increase and welcome it with open arms.

 

Cheers,

 

BadOrb.

Edited December 21, 2012 by BadOrb

[Gavin_Kelvar]

- At least 2 War zones (We normally get a War zone in a Patch, such as our latest one Hypergate.)

- At least 2 Operations (We normally get a Operation in a Patch, such as our latest one HK-51.)

- At least 1 New Race (Normally any expansion in a MMO, offers a new race.)

- At least 1 New Planet ( Depending on the size of the planet and how many objects are recycled.)

 

all these would be nice and I'd love it if we get Cathars along with Makeb and a few Ops, WZs and/or FPs.

 

- At least 1 New Class ( Normally any expansion in a MMO, offers a new class or offers new ACs for existing class. )

 

theoretically in this game we'll never get a new class as they would have to write fresh chapters 1, 2, & 3 for them with complete voice acting. Otherwise a new class would come across as shallow and not even worth the effort since the major selling point in TOR is story. In any other MMO where the story is the same for every class this could be done but in TOR with the emphasis on story that would be a huge cash and development sink. They'd likely charge way more than 20 USD for an expansion with a new class because it'd be so expensive to develop.

 

New ACs might be possible but I don't really see a need for it since it would just mess with the AC balance we have. I'd rather them work on fine tuning the existing ACs further and/or adding new dynamics to game play. Particularly if those new dynamics allowed us to customize weapon loadouts/fighting styles to further make each character unique without sacrificing class utility to do so.

 

- At least 3 New Skills to existing Classes (Normally any expansion in a MMO, offers new skills that expand class.)

 

This I would like to see, especially if it was stuff like giving Shadow DPS the opportunity to be more martial and less Force power based just to add a variety of game play. Heck even if the only new ability was to implement a KOTOR style dual wield (ie where dual wield applies to both dual sabers & DBLS and of course allow this to work similarly for blaster based weaponry) it'd be worth it in my book just because we'd have so many more options to customize the look of our characters.

 

- Including a New Playable Faction ( Without going into the vast SW lore, a third Criminal Faction is doable.)

 

Like classes this would be a massive undertaking as they'd have to write an entire faction Level 1-50 story line, add new areas to existing planets (as otherwise it'll get way too crowded), or create a boat load of brand new faction exclusive planets (unwise as players of the original factions will feel left out of a lot of brand new content) and do a lot of voice acting. They'd also have to find some way to make it not seem odd that the original two factions go along merrily with their class/faction quests never once mentioning this other faction. While it would be nice, for a story driven game like TOR there's just no way this could be done well without months or years of development. It'll also cost us a heck of a lot of money if they do this because it would be like developing an entirely new game.

 

- Level Cap Increase (This is a staple in MMO expansions and is nothing fancy, new missions are to be expected.)

- New Loot and Gear ( This a staple in MMO expansions, and we are not talking texture palette swaps.)

 

This I believe they already said will come and that will be nice to have.

[BrianDavion]

The answer to this question is different for everyone, but we have all seen what a PATCH is in TOR, and I think we all can agree that an EXPANSION should be a lot larger in scope then a PATCH.

 

Now what do I mean by Larger ? I mean Content. Not, man hours, budget, or size of the world. I am talking about GAMEPLAY FEATURES that allows the players to do something fresh and new. Not just a single feature mind you, but many features are required when you throw the word EXPANSION around.

 

Now the Developers can choose to expand Horizontally (New Ideas..<Hard>) , or they can choose to expand Vertically (Build on what you got..<Easy>)

 

But most times, an EXPANSION incorporates BOTH.

 

So based on what I have seen so far with the last several PATCHES ( Update 1.2, 1.3, 1.4, etc ) here is what I am expecting for an EXPANSION.

 

- At least 2 War zones (We normally get a War zone in a Patch, such as our latest one Hypergate.)

- At least 2 Operations (We normally get a Operation in a Patch, such as our latest one HK-51.)

- At least 1 New Race (Normally any expansion in a MMO, offers a new race.)

- At least 1 New Planet ( Depending on the size of the planet and how many objects are recycled.)

- At least 1 New Class ( Normally any expansion in a MMO, offers a new class or offers new ACs for existing class. )

- At least 3 New Skills to existing Classes (Normally any expansion in a MMO, offers new skills that expand class.)

- Including a New Playable Faction ( Without going into the vast SW lore, a third Criminal Faction is doable.)

- Level Cap Increase (This is a staple in MMO expansions and is nothing fancy, new missions are to be expected.)

- New Loot and Gear ( This a staple in MMO expansions, and we are not talking texture palette swaps.)

 

Now that is what I would call a decent $19.99 Expansion Pack. Anything short of that, is a PATCH.

 

EDIT: Let's clear the air, everyone saying it's only 10 dollars. No. It's 10 dollars if you pre-order. If not, the content is valued at 19.99. So Bioware considers the amount of content to be worth $19.99. Most Expansions are $19.99 to $29.99

 

sounds to me like your setting yiour self up for dissappointment. especially as there have been plenty of expansions that have released without these new features

[Darth__Carnal]

You misread their promotional material.

 

The expansion is 10 dollars for subscribers. Not if you pre-order. Pre-order gets you 5 days early access.

 

I see, so in actuality, if your a subscriber paying $15.00 and purchase the game, you will pay an additional $10.00 making your monthly total for that month, $25.00

 

Meanwhile the non-subscriber will pay $20.00 for the month.

 

So I just paid $5.00 more, and I am giving them money monthly. Maybe I should stop subscribing.

 

And for the record, no matter what discount they offer, at the end of the day, the content is valued at $19.99 because that's what a non-subscriber would pay for it. The fact that you are already paying $15.00 a month as a subscriber and still required to pay for content, is not a good thing, especially when it's $5.00 more then a person not paying at all.

 

I hope the developers are smart enough to fill this "EXPANSION" with benefits for subscribers.

[Cleet_Xia]

I call it an Xpac because of the level cap increase & the expanded skill trees. I think that's only real difference. In the last 12 monthes patchs have given us the BH and Section X land areas ~ so land area isn't really a distinction.

 

The whole purpose of the announcement is so BW can get feedback on what the community expects for their money for an Xpac. If players would pay $40 for a 5 level cap increase and nothing more - we'd have to pay $40 to get it. Bottom line is RotHC probably isn't even closed to complete yet. I'll be VERY surprised if it goes live before March.

 

While I think the Op is more than a little cray-cray if they think we'll get all that for $10 or $20, for that price I would expect to see the following.

 

1) Makeb

2) 5 levels, 5 new skills per tree, 5 new levels of blues/greens, and ONE new tier of PVE gear

3) Thunderca... I mean Cathar (just because that content is probably already finished)

4) 1 new WZ ~ just to give the PvP crowd a reason to buy

5) IF they are feeling generous maybe 1 new SM FP -

6) IF BENEVOLENT AND LOVING GREMLINS HAVE OVERRUN BW - we'll get a SM OP or a HM of the new FP

 

I doubt very seriously there will be any OPs or space missions in the xpac. Hopefully NiM content will be enough to keep people busy once they hit BiS gear. At least until they produce another OP.

 

Sometime in 2013 patches will probably include HM versions of hammer station, athis, mandalorian raiders, or red reaper.

We we probably also get 1 more OP, a nightmare mode, and a WZ. Otherwise everything else is going to be cartel shop items.

 

Keep in mind that a chunk of Makeb is going to be a dialy area, and that at least 30% of area will be inteded for use by the oposit faction. Even a big planet shrinks dramatically when you never go to a third of it, on any particular toon.

[Shingara]

I call it an Xpac because of the level cap increase & the expanded skill trees. I think that's only real difference. In the last 12 monthes patchs have given us the BH and Section X land areas ~ so land area isn't really a distinction.

 

The whole purpose of the announcement is so BW can get feedback on what the community expects for their money for an Xpac. If players would pay $40 for a 5 level cap increase and nothing more - we'd have to pay $40 to get it. Bottom line is RotHC probably isn't even closed to complete yet. I'll be VERY surprised if it goes live before March.

 

While I think the Op is more than a little cray-cray if they think we'll get all that for $10 or $20, for that price I would expect to see the following.

 

1) Makeb

2) 5 levels, 5 new skills per tree, 5 new levels of blues/greens, and ONE new tier of PVE gear

3) Thunderca... I mean Cathar (just because that content is probably already finished)

4) 1 new WZ ~ just to give the PvP crowd a reason to buy

5) IF they are feeling generous maybe 1 new SM FP -

6) IF BENEVOLENT AND LOVING GREMLINS HAVE OVERRUN BW - we'll get a SM OP or a HM of the new FP

 

I doubt very seriously there will be any OPs or space missions in the xpac. Hopefully NiM content will be enough to keep people busy once they hit BiS gear. At least until they produce another OP.

 

Sometime in 2013 patches will probably include HM versions of hammer station, athis, mandalorian raiders, or red reaper.

We we probably also get 1 more OP, a nightmare mode, and a WZ. Otherwise everything else is going to be cartel shop items.

 

Keep in mind that a chunk of Makeb is going to be a dialy area, and that at least 30% of area will be inteded for use by the oposit faction. Even a big planet shrinks dramatically when you never go to a third of it, on any particular toon.

 

I can agree with that, what worrys me is from what we saw of it from e3 it sure looks like belsavis. But what worrys me more then that is the fact is that it seems that we know near as much as they do like they are making it up as they go along.

 

Any mmo company that releases an expansion for pre order always has facts, whats coming, what certain stuff will look like and a preview of the expansion either via a video editorial or a dev sitting down at a presentation somewhere. What we have is the csrs running around trying to grab info, no devs coming forward and the best answer to the biggest question of what will makeb be like and we get, ow you know about as big as a big planet.

 

We dont even have a sticky in here.....

Edited December 22, 2012 by Shingara

[mentalmackem]

The answer to this question is different for everyone, but we have all seen what a PATCH is in TOR, and I think we all can agree that an EXPANSION should be a lot larger in scope then a PATCH.

 

Now what do I mean by Larger ? I mean Content. Not, man hours, budget, or size of the world. I am talking about GAMEPLAY FEATURES that allows the players to do something fresh and new. Not just a single feature mind you, but many features are required when you throw the word EXPANSION around.

 

Now the Developers can choose to expand Horizontally (New Ideas..<Hard>) , or they can choose to expand Vertically (Build on what you got..<Easy>)

 

But most times, an EXPANSION incorporates BOTH.

 

So based on what I have seen so far with the last several PATCHES ( Update 1.2, 1.3, 1.4, etc ) here is what I am expecting for an EXPANSION.

 

- At least 2 War zones (We normally get a War zone in a Patch, such as our latest one Hypergate.)

- At least 2 Operations (We normally get a Operation in a Patch, such as our latest one HK-51.)

- At least 1 New Race (Normally any expansion in a MMO, offers a new race.)

- At least 1 New Planet ( Depending on the size of the planet and how many objects are recycled.)

- At least 1 New Class ( Normally any expansion in a MMO, offers a new class or offers new ACs for existing class. )

- At least 3 New Skills to existing Classes (Normally any expansion in a MMO, offers new skills that expand class.)

- Including a New Playable Faction ( Without going into the vast SW lore, a third Criminal Faction is doable.)

- Level Cap Increase (This is a staple in MMO expansions and is nothing fancy, new missions are to be expected.)

- New Loot and Gear ( This a staple in MMO expansions, and we are not talking texture palette swaps.)

 

Now that is what I would call a decent $19.99 Expansion Pack. Anything short of that, is a PATCH.

 

EDIT # 1: Let's clear the air, everyone saying it's only 10 dollars. No. It's 10 dollars if your a subscriber. If not, the content is valued at 19.99. So Bioware considers the amount of content to be worth $19.99. Most Expansions are $19.99 to $29.99.

 

EDIT # 2: if your a subscriber paying $15.00 a month and purchase the "Expansion", you will pay an additional $10.00 making your monthly total for that month, $25.00. Meanwhile, if your not a subscriber you will only pay $20.00 for the month. So not only are you not getting the expansion for free for being a subscriber, you will pay $5 more then a person who is not paying for the game.

 

Your using some big genralizations there, lord of the rings has had 2 new classes and 0 new races in 4 expansions eve online has had 0 new races in 11 expansions age of conan has had 0 new races in 1 expansion.

 

I imagine there will be a new op and probleys another one a few months after and a new warzone maybe even 2 new warzones. New loot and gear i agree and disagree with at the same time new "loot" is what is required to do certain content the skin shouldnt matter a whole deal, what your talking about is cosmetic for me.

 

New faction is a good idea but i dont see it being done, to many man hours to re-write storys to fit them in.

[Rogoo]

This was a patch. Now it's an expansion.

 

Tells us all we need to know about how succesful and profitable SWTOR really is.

[Darth__Carnal]

Your using some big genralizations there, lord of the rings has had 2 new classes and 0 new races in 4 expansions eve online has had 0 new races in 11 expansions age of conan has had 0 new races in 1 expansion.

 

I imagine there will be a new op and probleys another one a few months after and a new warzone maybe even 2 new warzones. New loot and gear i agree and disagree with at the same time new "loot" is what is required to do certain content the skin shouldnt matter a whole deal, what your talking about is cosmetic for me.

 

New faction is a good idea but i dont see it being done, to many man hours to re-write storys to fit them in.

 

1. I am using Star Wars Galaxies as my primary comparison for Expansions, which is another MMO, designed by Lucas Arts, and released 3 Expansions, "Jump to Lightspeed", "Rise of the Wookiees", and the "Trials of Obi-wan" each was approximately 29.99, and for the most part, radically changed the game with gameplay features, new races, missions, and loot. That to me is a proper measuring stick.

 

2. Since this is all microwavable material ( content that was created awhile ago, put on ice, and now being brought out 6 month later ) being created from back in June, nobody knows how far along a third faction story writing could of gotten. We also don't know how much VO was done by the actors. So while we have 8 stories created now, the story writers could of made more while they were hashing out ideas.

Edited December 22, 2012 by Darth__Carnal

[Trevalon]

posted this in another thread but it has more relevance here...

 

A fully fledged SWTOR expansion for 40 bucks if in-line with most other MMO's expansions would include:

 

5-6 Full Planets

Continuation of story quests including new companions

1 New Op at start with at least 2 free ones to come in patches

1 - 2 new WZ's

5-6 new Flashpoints

5-10 more levels

New Class or a New Race

A bunch of minor fluff stuff.

 

This would be bare minimum for an "official" Fully fledged xpac for SWTOR imo. This would be what I would call a "Decent" sized xpac - It is in no way a large xpac nor is it a small xpac (as I have said plenty of both over the last 13 years).

Edited December 22, 2012 by Trevalon

[Aital]

.... I didn't even read this and I'm assuming most of the answers are stupid...

 

A patch is a downloadable piece of software. A patch can contain anything from an expansion to an update to fixes. In fact an expansion is an update and so are fixes, AKA a patch is an update of any kind!!...... So start from there. the first answer is they have nothing to do with one another except that one can be inclusive to the other but not vica versa. One is related to the practicalities of using software in a wide array of computer environments, including our current, with servers and home PCs(The patch.) The other is related to the individual type of software.(A game) And is a term for increasing, or more accurately, "changing," the scope of it.

 

A patch literally means anything being updated or changed in any peice of software for any reason. It is a generalized term. An update and can be updating any aspect of software down to the most technical level. It has nothing to do with any subject on scope of expansions for games. Except that by definition in our current tech/hardware environment all expansions are patches......

 

WHAT YOU GUYS ARE ARGUING ABOUT IS NONSENSE. YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT ANY OF YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT!

 

AN EXPANSION IS A PATCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

 

The term patch is irrelevant to the use of money also. It only must be something added or changing a piece of software you download or apply somehow to another piece of software somehow. That is it!!!!!!! Fix this glaring issue in your arguments and you might have a tiny chance of beginning to talking about this subject matter intelligently. 8\

Edited December 22, 2012 by Aital

[funkhouse]

There's that many people who lack common sense or what? Get a grip they only offered a small amount of information on an upcoming expac for digital download. Stop acting like women and get carried away with assuming.

[Yeval]

1. I am using Star Wars Galaxies as my primary comparison for Expansions, which is another MMO, designed by Lucas Arts, and released 3 Expansions, "Jump to Lightspeed", "Rise of the Wookiees", and the "Trials of Obi-wan" each was approximately 29.99, and for the most part, radically changed the game with gameplay features, new races, missions, and loot. That to me is a proper measuring stick.

 

2. Since this is all microwavable material ( content that was created awhile ago, put on ice, and now being brought out 6 month later ) being created from back in June, nobody knows how far along a third faction story writing could of gotten. We also don't know how much VO was done by the actors. So while we have 8 stories created now, the story writers could of made more while they were hashing out ideas.

 

"Jump to Lightspeed" added 2 new races but no new classes. "Rage of the Wookiees" added a new planet and a million bugs but no new classes or races. "Trials of Obi-Wan" added a new planet but no new classes or races.

 

While "Jump to Lightspeed" added space-based content, neither "Rage of the Wookiees" nor "Trials of Obi-Wan" radically changed gameplay.

 

Your measuring stick is a bit off m8.

[Yeval]

posted this in another thread but it has more relevance here...

 

A fully fledged SWTOR expansion for 40 bucks if in-line with most other MMO's expansions would include:

 

5-6 Full Planets

Continuation of story quests including new companions

1 New Op at start with at least 2 free ones to come in patches

1 - 2 new WZ's

5-6 new Flashpoints

5-10 more levels

New Class or a New Race

A bunch of minor fluff stuff.

 

This would be bare minimum for an "official" Fully fledged xpac for SWTOR imo. This would be what I would call a "Decent" sized xpac - It is in no way a large xpac nor is it a small xpac (as I have said plenty of both over the last 13 years).

 

I think you're pretty much spot on. However, I'd like fewer planets but each with more developed and immersive content.

[ruminate]

Section X is a bunch of dailies + HK-51 storyline. It costs $14 for F2P.

Makeb, from what we know so far, is a bunch of dailies + planet storyline + 5 more levels. It costs $20 for F2P.

 

Section X is free for subscribers, who already pay $15 per month.

Makeb costs $10 for subscribers, who already pay $15 per month.

 

Food for thought.

Edited December 22, 2012 by ruminate

[Shingara]

Section X is a bunch of dailies + HK-51 storyline. It costs $14 for F2P.

Makeb, from what we know so far, is a bunch of dailies + planet storyline + 5 more levels. It costs $20 for F2P.

 

Section X is free for subscribers, who already pay $15 per month.

Makeb costs $10 for subscribers, who already pay $15 per month.

 

Food for thought.

 

That is food for thought when the difference to f2p players is only $6 between section x +hk and Makeb.

Edited December 22, 2012 by Shingara

[SnoggyMack]

The fact that you are already paying $15.00 a month as a subscriber and still required to pay for content, is not a good thing

 

It didn't bother me one bit when I bought Ruins of Kunark. Doesn't bother me much now either.

 

I hope the developers are smart enough to fill this "EXPANSION" with benefits for subscribers.

 

One of the biggest issues with the free to play model in this game is how F2P players have to pay for all the features that Subs get. Like the ability to equip artifact level and above gear. Now expansions in MMOs ... one of their biggest draws/allure/features, is the added gear, especially end-game gear. So I don't know, I think your math needs to factor that added price into a Free to Play player's pricing model for getting bang for their buck out of the expansion.

 

They have to buy a lot of added features ala carte, that subs don't. In the end, I don't think F2P players pay less than subs in this game's particular model.

[Netwar]

After reading this, I just had to log in. This... is beyond dumb. You're expectations are beyond the roof and what are expected at a $40 EXPANSION. No matter what you think or say this is a expansion. Why?

 

-Increased level cap

-New planet

-New skills

-New gear

And other POSSIBILITIES:

-New warzone/Operation

 

Thats more than any patch we've gotten.

 

 

Its EXPANDING the level.

 

This is why it's called expantion and why they charge a small amount for it.

[ConradLionhart]

From first impressions, a patch is something that adds new content based on currently existing features. It can be a new pvp zone, operation, flashpoint, but it is still governed by the same gear and abilities.

 

An expansion adds new features that will change the landscape of the game like new level cap, new abilities, new crew skills, new game features like the super secret space game and minigames.

[Glorthox]

A true expansion should take you roughly about 1 week to experience it all if your one of the hardcore. This one I feel as if it will only last for no more than a day. 5 levels aren't much at all. Should have been 10 to stall for more time.