What's the difference between an EXPANSION and a PATCH ?

[Darth__Carnal]

The answer to this question is different for everyone, but we have all seen what a PATCH is in TOR, and I think we all can agree that an EXPANSION should be a lot larger in scope then a PATCH.

 

Now what do I mean by Larger ? I mean Content. Not, man hours, budget, or size of the world. I am talking about GAMEPLAY FEATURES that allows the players to do something fresh and new. Not just a single feature mind you, but many features are required when you throw the word EXPANSION around.

 

Now the Developers can choose to expand Horizontally (New Ideas..<Hard>) , or they can choose to expand Vertically (Build on what you got..<Easy>)

 

But most times, an EXPANSION incorporates BOTH.

 

So based on what I have seen so far with the last several PATCHES ( Update 1.2, 1.3, 1.4, etc ) here is what I am expecting for an EXPANSION.

 

- At least 2 War zones (We normally get a War zone in a Patch, such as our latest one Hypergate.)

- At least 2 Operations (We normally get a Operation in a Patch, such as our latest one HK-51.)

- At least 1 New Race (Normally any expansion in a MMO, offers a new race.)

- At least 1 New Planet ( Depending on the size of the planet and how many objects are recycled.)

- At least 1 New Class ( Normally any expansion in a MMO, offers a new class or offers new ACs for existing class. )

- At least 3 New Skills to existing Classes (Normally any expansion in a MMO, offers new skills that expand class.)

- Including a New Playable Faction ( Without going into the vast SW lore, a third Criminal Faction is doable.)

- Level Cap Increase (This is a staple in MMO expansions and is nothing fancy, new missions are to be expected.)

- New Loot and Gear ( This a staple in MMO expansions, and we are not talking texture palette swaps.)

 

Now that is what I would call a decent $19.99 Expansion Pack. Anything short of that, is a PATCH.

 

EDIT # 1: Let's clear the air, everyone saying it's only 10 dollars. No. It's 10 dollars if your a subscriber. If not, the content is valued at 19.99. So Bioware considers the amount of content to be worth $19.99. Most Expansions are $19.99 to $29.99.

 

EDIT # 2: If your a subscriber paying $15.00 a month and purchase the "Expansion", you will pay an additional $10.00 making your monthly total for that month, $25.00. Meanwhile, if your not a subscriber you will only pay $20.00 for the month. So not only are you not getting the expansion for free for being a subscriber, you will pay $5 more then a person who is not paying for the game.

 

EDIT # 3 : I am using Star Wars Galaxies as my primary comparison for Expansions, which is another MMO, designed by Lucas Arts, and released 3 Expansions, "Jump to Lightspeed", "Rise of the Wookiees", and the "Trials of Obi-wan" each was approximately 29.99, and for the most part, radically changed the game with gameplay features, new races, missions, and loot. That to me is a proper measuring stick.

Edited December 22, 2012 by Darth__Carnal

[mothear]

There may be a problem with putting Ops in their expansions due to the F2P payment model which is F2P players can buy the expansion but will have no way of accessing all the content without paying more.

[Cailahan]

The Expansions you are thinking of are the full £39.99 Expansions that MMOs like WoW put out. Expansion is the wrong word for Makeb I think, its more of a Adventure Pack - It is bigger than a patch but smaller than an expansion.

 

In the older days of MMOs, these were more common - EQ2 has had a few of them also that were paid for. If it was a Expansion sitting at £39.99 then yes I would expect most of what you listed but as it is not then the argument becomes invalid.

 

It seems the word Expansion is the problem, not Makeb.

[JPACCLEM]

I agree with OP 100%..... ! And I might also add that I have been an AVID fan of this game and have played semi-religiously for the past year, and the with the recent shenanigans that EA/BIO have been pulling has truly pissed me off. I am VERY close to quitting this game and going back to Rift or trying something new. I feel as though i have been taken advantage of and treated unfairly.... this is my opinion however. Yes i have stuck with it through the thick and think but honestly it's wearing on me now, and my time to throw in the towel is approaching. Lets hope for the best and not tolerate sub-par BS anymore.

[Jacen_Starsolo]

When it comes to Bioware, the difference can be summed up as: 10 BUX... 10 BUX... 10 BUX...

[Goretzu]

What's the difference between an EXPANSION and a PATCH ?

You pay for an expansion/adventure pack, whilst a patch is free?

[Icestar]

Now that is what I would call a decent $19.99 Expansion Pack. Anything short of that, is a PATCH.

 

Nah, that is not a $19.99 patch that I currently bought for $10

 

If they would release all you say it would cost like any other expansion ~ $35

[chuuuuucky]

I agree with all but new class and new faction. They should sort out their current problems first before they start such a hughe project.

New faction needs new class story new locations and a new starting planet. Possibly new flashpoints.

With new classes it is basicly the same. New story and a lot of work.

What i absolutly agree with are the operations and warzones. They need those to provide new endgame content for level 55 players.

[Atramar]

Don;t want to be picky, but in story wise, planet based quests (like imps on one and rep on other side) including new fraction, means whole new story, new 8 actors to do voices, 4 new stories, atleast 2 new planets (starting planet+first planet+new fleet+editing ALL shared planets)..

as far as I think it's ridic we have to pay for new content when we pay subs (and it requires f2p to actually pay for game to free to play- I wonder how they will solve it..) it's just few quid... meh

[RogueDiplomacy]

The difference between an expansion and a patch is a cost/benefit equation.

 

Does the expansion/patch bring along enough new content or features that people would be willing to pay for them outside their usual subscription (or microtransaction) fees?

 

If so, how much?

 

Rise of the Cartel clearly doesn't have anywhere near the content of what I expect out of WoW's expansions, but the fact that it's 10 bucks rather than 40 makes a pretty huge difference to me.

 

It's a mini-expansion.

[ReverendAnderson]

here is what I am expecting for an EXPANSION.

 

Don't expect specifics from something we know so little about. If you get it stuck in your head that RotHC has to be a certain way, you're going to be disappointed. Wait for it to come out, look at the features, read the reviews, ask the folks that bought it what content is there, and then decide if its worth your ten bucks.

[kamed]

The answer to this question is different for everyone, but we have all seen what a PATCH is in TOR, and I think we all can agree that an EXPANSION should be a lot larger in scope then a PATCH.

 

Now what do I mean by Larger ? I mean Content. Not, man hours, budget, or size of the world. I am talking about GAMEPLAY FEATURES that allows the players to do something fresh and new. Not just a single feature mind you, but many features are required when you throw the word EXPANSION around.

 

Now the Developers can choose to expand Horizontally (New Ideas..<Hard>) , or they can choose to expand Vertically (Build on what you got..<Easy>)

 

But most times, an EXPANSION incorporates BOTH.

 

So based on what I have seen so far with the last several PATCHES ( Update 1.2, 1.3, 1.4, etc ) here is what I am expecting for an EXPANSION.

 

- At least 2 War zones (We normally get a War zone in a Patch, such as our latest one Hypergate.)

- At least 2 Operations (We normally get a Operation in a Patch, such as our latest one HK-51.)

- At least 1 New Race (Normally any expansion in a MMO, offers a new race.)

- At least 1 New Planet ( Depending on the size of the planet and how many objects are recycled.)

- At least 1 New Class ( Normally any expansion in a MMO, offers a new class or offers new ACs for existing class. )

- At least 3 New Skills to existing Classes (Normally any expansion in a MMO, offers new skills that expand class.)

- Including a New Playable Faction ( Without going into the vast SW lore, a third Criminal Faction is doable.)

- Level Cap Increase (This is a staple in MMO expansions and is nothing fancy, new missions are to be expected.)

- New Loot and Gear ( This a staple in MMO expansions, and we are not talking texture palette swaps.)

 

Now that is what I would call a decent $19.99 Expansion Pack. Anything short of that, is a PATCH.

 

I am sort of expecting the same thing, much or less. Except that I doubt that a new class or advance class will come into play. Although my mind would be blown if they did. I mean if this was just any other MMO where all classes had the same stupid generic text quest, then yeah. But because this is Swtor and every class needs their own storyline, voice acting, unique companions and cinematography, I highly doubt it. If they did create one they would have announce that as part of an expansion.

 

It would be cool if they let you play Bounty Hunter or Imperial Agent archetypes in Trooper or Smuggler class storyline and vice versa.

 

I wouldn't necessarily consider it a patch since there is a level increase and a totally new planet, not something the size of Section X though. If there was no level increase or new planet, I would totally agree with you on that.

[Shingara]

In an mmo an expansion changes the face of an mmo, updates the lore and targets and changes the world around you, brings new races and objectives to the table, offers new things todo in the game and other avenues of gamestyle. Brings a whole new set of tiers of flashpoints/dungeons and operations/raids.

 

A patch updates what the mmo is to the next stage/tier be it a raid/operation or flashpoint/dungeon or both and the next tier of gear without going to far beyond the ranges of what the game was before the patch was applied or the previous tier.

Edited December 20, 2012 by Shingara

[RichT]

Don't expect specifics from something we know so little about. If you get it stuck in your head that RotHC has to be a certain way, you're going to be disappointed. .

 

That's a great point to keep in mind. Expectations are any games biggest competitior. Unrealistic ones, are the worst..we've already seen what those do to many an MMO after WoW, this one included.

[haliy]

- At least 2 War zones (We normally get a War zone in a Patch, such as our latest one Hypergate.)

- At least 2 Operations (We normally get a Operation in a Patch, such as our latest one HK-51.)

- At least 1 New Race (Normally any expansion in a MMO, offers a new race.)

- At least 1 New Planet ( Depending on the size of the planet and how many objects are recycled.)

- At least 1 New Class ( Normally any expansion in a MMO, offers a new class or offers new ACs for existing class. )

- At least 3 New Skills to existing Classes (Normally any expansion in a MMO, offers new skills that expand class.)

- Including a New Playable Faction ( Without going into the vast SW lore, a third Criminal Faction is doable.)

- Level Cap Increase (This is a staple in MMO expansions and is nothing fancy, new missions are to be expected.)

- New Loot and Gear ( This a staple in MMO expansions, and we are not talking texture palette swaps.)

 

Your implication of saying "we normally get XX in a patch" tells me you think we get one in every patch which I do not see and wondering where you get that information from (I highlighted where im, questioning) And HK-51 was not an operation. It was a questline to gain a new companion. The remarks that say "Nothing new" means no new FP's, Operations, or WZ's were introduced. Brand new content will be highlighted in yellow where just a continuation of already made content will be highlited in orange.

 

1.1.0 - Rise of the Rakghouls

• Flashpoint: Kaon Under Siege
  
• Operation: Karagga's Palace
  
• PVP: Nothing new

1.2.0 - Legacy

• Flashpoint: Lost Island
  
• Operation: Explosive Conflict
  
• PVP: Novare Coast

1.3.0 - Allies

• Flashpoints: Nothing new
  
• Operations: Nothing new
  
• PVP: Ranked WZ's introduced
  

1.4.0 - Terror From Beyond

• Flashpoint: Nothing new
  
• Operation: Terror From Beyond
  
• PVP: Nothing new

1.5.0 - HK-51 Activated

• Flashpoint: Nothing new
  
• Operation: NM EC available
  
• PVP: Nothing new

1.6.0 - Ancient Hypergate

• Flashpoint: Nothing new
  
• Operation: Nothing new
  
• PVP: Ancient Hypergate

 

So in 6 main patches, we have only seen 3 new operations, 2 new flashpoint, and 2 new warzone.

 

The items in your list which I can say we will see are as follows:

• Operations: Should see at least 1 new operation due to the level cap increase
  
• New Race - Cathar
  
• At least 1 New Planet - MakeB
  
• Level Cap Increase - 55
  
• New Loot and Gear - Guarenteed to happen. there not going to have the 55's running around in 50 gear. Now if there going to just change the colors on the current gear which seems to be what they love to do is still up in the air but i'm not going to be suprized if they follow that route.

Edited December 20, 2012 by haliy

[Atramar]

@haliy: #

you forgot Novara coast was 'new' for some time so technically, we have 2 new and 3 from start WZ.

also, you forgot lost island flashpoint.

edit: and EC

 

so, instead of 'So in 6 main patches, we have only seen 2 new operations, 1 new flashpoint, and 1 new warzone. '

should be 'So in 6 main patches, we have only seen 3 new operations, 2 new flashpoints, and 2 new warzones. '

Edited December 20, 2012 by Atramar

[Shingara]

we also had a content draught, and they spent alot of patches and time on back end stuff that made little difference to the game beyond cosmetic and fluffy. Should we judge them doing what they should have done before launch as what we should expect in the future ? Edited December 20, 2012 by Shingara

[LUCASCASADEIS]

The answer to this question is different for everyone, but we have all seen what a PATCH is in TOR, and I think we all can agree that an EXPANSION should be a lot larger in scope then a PATCH.

 

Now what do I mean by Larger ? I mean Content. Not, man hours, budget, or size of the world. I am talking about GAMEPLAY FEATURES that allows the players to do something fresh and new. Not just a single feature mind you, but many features are required when you throw the word EXPANSION around.

 

Now the Developers can choose to expand Horizontally (New Ideas..<Hard>) , or they can choose to expand Vertically (Build on what you got..<Easy>)

 

But most times, an EXPANSION incorporates BOTH.

 

So based on what I have seen so far with the last several PATCHES ( Update 1.2, 1.3, 1.4, etc ) here is what I am expecting for an EXPANSION.

 

- At least 2 War zones (We normally get a War zone in a Patch, such as our latest one Hypergate.)

- At least 2 Operations (We normally get a Operation in a Patch, such as our latest one HK-51.)

- At least 1 New Race (Normally any expansion in a MMO, offers a new race.)

- At least 1 New Planet ( Depending on the size of the planet and how many objects are recycled.)

- At least 1 New Class ( Normally any expansion in a MMO, offers a new class or offers new ACs for existing class. )

- At least 3 New Skills to existing Classes (Normally any expansion in a MMO, offers new skills that expand class.)

- Including a New Playable Faction ( Without going into the vast SW lore, a third Criminal Faction is doable.)

- Level Cap Increase (This is a staple in MMO expansions and is nothing fancy, new missions are to be expected.)

- New Loot and Gear ( This a staple in MMO expansions, and we are not talking texture palette swaps.)

 

Now that is what I would call a decent $19.99 Expansion Pack. Anything short of that, is a PATCH.

 

those expansion cost 40-60 dolars. but this expansion is only 10 dolars, 20 for f2p and preferred players.

[Sweetiepies]

The answer to this question is different for everyone, but we have all seen what a PATCH is in TOR, and I think we all can agree that an EXPANSION should be a lot larger in scope then a PATCH.

 

Now what do I mean by Larger ? I mean Content. Not, man hours, budget, or size of the world. I am talking about GAMEPLAY FEATURES that allows the players to do something fresh and new. Not just a single feature mind you, but many features are required when you throw the word EXPANSION around.

 

Now the Developers can choose to expand Horizontally (New Ideas..<Hard>) , or they can choose to expand Vertically (Build on what you got..<Easy>)

 

But most times, an EXPANSION incorporates BOTH.

 

So based on what I have seen so far with the last several PATCHES ( Update 1.2, 1.3, 1.4, etc ) here is what I am expecting for an EXPANSION.

- At least 2 War zones (We normally get a War zone in a Patch, such as our latest one Hypergate.)

2, no. That is unrealistic. If you had said 1 Battleground and an Ilum like area, maybe.

- At least 2 Operations (We normally get a Operation in a Patch, such as our latest one HK-51.)

No sir again. We do not normally get a raid per patch. We get a raid per, for lack of a better word, "Tier". As this has been going for about a year, we can expect (hopefully) the same-ish schedule. IF it contains an Operation, it will be 1, max.

- At least 1 New Race (Normally any expansion in a MMO, offers a new race.)

Again, no. There is no normally here. The pattern for a lot of MMO's is new race/s, or new class.

- At least 1 New Planet ( Depending on the size of the planet and how many objects are recycled.)

No argument here. Damn near every expac for every mmo had some sort of land expansion.

- At least 1 New Class ( Normally any expansion in a MMO, offers a new class or offers new ACs for existing class. )

As said above, no. There is no normally here. The pattern for a lot of MMO's is new race/s, OR new class.

- At least 3 New Skills to existing Classes (Normally any expansion in a MMO, offers new skills that expand class.)

No argument here. While there are different versions of this, the main point is alike enough.

- Including a New Playable Faction ( Without going into the vast SW lore, a third Criminal Faction is doable.)

You have to be kidding me if you think that this is an "Expectation" of an expansion. This is a major undertaking that if it did NOT have the ground work laid in in the original dev time, would take a lot longer than the one year anniversary to accomplish.

- Level Cap Increase (This is a staple in MMO expansions and is nothing fancy, new missions are to be expected.)

- New Loot and Gear ( This a staple in MMO expansions, and we are not talking texture palette swaps.)

We agree here. New expansion=New level(usually) and new purps.

 

Now that is what I would call a decent $19.99 Expansion Pack. Anything short of that, is a PATCH.

Your expectations are too high for the current iteration of Bioware. What you listed COULD be a major expansion for an actual top shelf MMO. As much as I like this game, it is not

[Capt_Beers]

So based on what I have seen so far with the last several PATCHES ( Update 1.2, 1.3, 1.4, etc ) here is what I am expecting for an EXPANSION.

 

- At least 2 War zones (We normally get a War zone in a Patch, such as our latest one Hypergate.)

- At least 2 Operations (We normally get a Operation in a Patch, such as our latest one HK-51.)

- At least 1 New Race (Normally any expansion in a MMO, offers a new race.)

- At least 1 New Planet ( Depending on the size of the planet and how many objects are recycled.)

- At least 1 New Class ( Normally any expansion in a MMO, offers a new class or offers new ACs for existing class. )

- At least 3 New Skills to existing Classes (Normally any expansion in a MMO, offers new skills that expand class.)

- Including a New Playable Faction ( Without going into the vast SW lore, a third Criminal Faction is doable.)

- Level Cap Increase (This is a staple in MMO expansions and is nothing fancy, new missions are to be expected.)

- New Loot and Gear ( This a staple in MMO expansions, and we are not talking texture palette swaps.)

 

To be honest OP for a $10 expansion you are expecting quite a lot.

 

- I would love 2 new WZ's but I doubt it will happen. The only way I see us getting more than 1 is if they keep all the same mechanics and just stick them on new maps. Which would be awesome, esepecially for Huttball. But brand new ones? I just don't think it will happen.

- The only way we'll get 2 of these is if we get NiM TfB and one new one.

- Cathar

- I wouldn't mind a new class but me and my buddy talked about this one night and for the life of us couldn't figure one out that could have a mirror on both sides and be a "Star Wars" class.

- 5 new levels so 5 new points. There almost has to be new abilities. They also did say in the details that there would be new abilities. I will for sure be trying out all sorts of weirdo builds with our exisisting abilities with 5 extra points though.

- Derp

- This is pretty dependent on a new Op. No new Op. probably no new gear. Allison already said that our Dread Guard would not be obsolete so I don't know about this. More orange armor and weapon schematics would be great though. Or screw new gear and give us an appearance tab.

[ReverendAnderson]

That's a great point to keep in mind. Expectations are any games biggest competitior. Unrealistic ones, are the worst..we've already seen what those do to many an MMO after WoW, this one included.

 

Expectations are actually hurting WoW for me right now. I grabbed the WoW-WotLK pack for $5 the other day and started playing again after 6 years, thinking the gameplay and structure must be generally better than than SWTOR and than I remembered, because a bunch of my friends were swearing by it and its so popular ... and that just isn't the case.

I'm really surprised by just how bad WoW is at telling a story (despite having so much lore behind it), and how much more fun SWTORs combat is without really being very different. The world is more interesting to me in general because its got much great sense of scale and grandness I hear the real fun in WoW is the end game, so maybe I just have to stick with it, but SWTOR's done the dozens of hours leading up to the level cap way better. From the gathering quests to the instances, to leveling and even the basic combat.

Shouldn't have got it in my head that WoW was supposed to be different, because now I'm hung up on it.

[haliy]

Thanks Atramar, I forgot about NC, EC, and LI. I went ahead and made the adjustment

 

we also had a content draught, and they spent alot of patches and time on back end stuff that made little difference to the game beyond cosmetic and fluffy. Should we judge them doing what they should have done before launch as what we should expect in the future ?

I'm not judging anybody, i was just asking the question where he was thinking we were getting a new flashpoint, operation, and wz every major patch.

 

I'm personally fine with the rate that the new content is being released and when they don't release any of the new content, they are making the fixes to some of the major items in the game which really needed to be done when they released the game (Group finder was a huge plus along with the server mergers). The only real thing i wasn't impressed with along with a bunch of others was when some of the guild names were forced to change their name even though no other guild with the same name existed within the server. You still see on an occasion "Name @ server" for their guild name.

[Cretinus]

What's actually wrong with these forums? They announce an expansion and five minutes later all the bullies are here, kicking them in the face. For what reason?

[Quraswren]

The answer to this question is different for everyone, but we have all seen what a PATCH is in TOR, and I think we all can agree that an EXPANSION should be a lot larger in scope then a PATCH.

 

Now what do I mean by Larger ? I mean Content. Not, man hours, budget, or size of the world. I am talking about GAMEPLAY FEATURES that allows the players to do something fresh and new. Not just a single feature mind you, but many features are required when you throw the word EXPANSION around.

 

Now the Developers can choose to expand Horizontally (New Ideas..<Hard>) , or they can choose to expand Vertically (Build on what you got..<Easy>)

 

But most times, an EXPANSION incorporates BOTH.

 

So based on what I have seen so far with the last several PATCHES ( Update 1.2, 1.3, 1.4, etc ) here is what I am expecting for an EXPANSION.

 

- At least 2 War zones (We normally get a War zone in a Patch, such as our latest one Hypergate.)

- At least 2 Operations (We normally get a Operation in a Patch, such as our latest one HK-51.)

- At least 1 New Race (Normally any expansion in a MMO, offers a new race.)

- At least 1 New Planet ( Depending on the size of the planet and how many objects are recycled.)

- At least 1 New Class ( Normally any expansion in a MMO, offers a new class or offers new ACs for existing class. )

- At least 3 New Skills to existing Classes (Normally any expansion in a MMO, offers new skills that expand class.)

- Including a New Playable Faction ( Without going into the vast SW lore, a third Criminal Faction is doable.)

- Level Cap Increase (This is a staple in MMO expansions and is nothing fancy, new missions are to be expected.)

- New Loot and Gear ( This a staple in MMO expansions, and we are not talking texture palette swaps.)

 

Now that is what I would call a decent $19.99 Expansion Pack. Anything short of that, is a PATCH.

 

I think what you listed is pretty much right except that is what you get for a $40 expansion in most cases.

 

I'd like to hope we get most of that but for $10 / $20, It will have to be toned down from what you have.

 

- I would only get 1 warzone, 1 Ops and maybe 2 new FP's.

- We may get old FP scaled up and Nightmare TFB.

- We might see a new race (cathar) but there had been talk of it being in the cash shop. That could change, who knows.

- I doubt we see a new class

- A new faction is possible I guess but unless you think the hutt cartel is that faction, I doubt we get much more than that.

- We know we're getting a new planet, 5 more levels - check

- a new active talent (maybe talents) and talent tree tweaks - Check

- Level cap increase - Check

- New gear and loot - Check

- Bug fixes (which is almost mandatory at this point)

 

Plus there is the possibility we might see server transfers, race change and a real dual spec. Skies the limit but all speculation at this point.

 

It's shaping up to be a $10 expansion BUT I would like a few more of the unknown areas to be filled in before I drop even $10 since I still pay $15 a month. The perk and deadline sales tactic is not enough to make me drop cash on it just yet. Not that I won't but I won't do it hastily.

[Atramar]

What's actually wrong with these forums? They announce an expansion and five minutes later all the bullies are here, kicking them in the face. For what reason?

 

For siths and giggles... for siths and giggles...