So much for not charging subs for Makeb

[dosadnik]

Here is a quote from the SWTOR website that annouced the 1.3 update:

 

"With this update, we’ve hit the halfway mark of this year. In that time we’ve released the Legacy system, Group Finder, Guild Banks, Interface Customization and many other game systems, alongside new playable content including Operations, Flashpoints and Warzones. But we have a lot more coming in the second half of 2012. You'll see familiar faces such as HK-51, fly in new space missions, and encounter new Operations, Warzones and a brand new world called Makeb that will allow players to gain new levels. And that’s only the things we’ve talked about so far."

 

Why would they include Makeb in yhe above statement if they planned on chaging for it? So now we get to wait until spring of 2013 to get content that was promised for the second half of 2012, and we get to pay for it's late delivery. How can anybody possibly be upset about that? Better yet, why are so many people defending EA/Bioware on this one?

 

They did not intend on changing it. They did not intend on layoffs, delays, f2p and a whole lot of other stuff. People have to understand that the circumstances changed. They lost people, they changed their whole business model and with that content was delayed. Before all that happened it seemed feasible to give makeb for free but it isn't anymore for whatever reason.

 

Imagine this: You're going to buy this very shiny new computer which you have saved a lot of money for. Then you lose your job and with that all your income. You will no longer buy that computer until you find a new job and save some more money. I hope the analogy got through there.

[grombrinda]

They did not intend on changing it. They did not intend on layoffs, delays, f2p and a whole lot of other stuff. People have to understand that the circumstances changed. They lost people, they changed their whole business model and with that content was delayed. Before all that happened it seemed feasible to give makeb for free but it isn't anymore for whatever reason.

 

Imagine this: You're going to buy this very shiny new computer which you have saved a lot of money for. Then you lose your job and with that all your income. You will no longer buy that computer until you find a new job and save some more money. I hope the analogy got through there.

So what is the point of a sub then???

Why not allow us to use cartel coins instead of cash on top of my sub fee??

And no this was never sold to us as an expansion but a non expansion content update.

http://starwarstorguide.blogspot.com/2012/12/pre-order-makeb-its-supposed-to-be-free.html

[Arkerus]

By MY definition of an expansion, an expansion must include a level cap increase, a new zone to explore, a new class and a new race. Since this doesn't have a new class or race it does not qualify as a expansion under my definition.

 

Oh and also the fact Jame's Ohlen specifically said it's NOT an expansion, it is a patch and nothing in their description of what this "expac" includes indicates they have substantially increased the amount of content it contains.

 

That's ridiculous. At least you admitted it was YOUR definition. An expansion can be defined any number of ways.

[MiraniSedai]

Someone remind me of the advantage of paying for a sub instead of buying individual unlocks again? (when buying unlocks works out cheaper long term)....

 

Only advantage I see is no credit cap and frankly I don't believe that is enough anymore.

[Exly]

They did not intend on changing it. They did not intend on layoffs, delays, f2p and a whole lot of other stuff. People have to understand that the circumstances changed. They lost people, they changed their whole business model and with that content was delayed. Before all that happened it seemed feasible to give makeb for free but it isn't anymore for whatever reason.

 

Imagine this: You're going to buy this very shiny new computer which you have saved a lot of money for. Then you lose your job and with that all your income. You will no longer buy that computer until you find a new job and save some more money. I hope the analogy got through there.

 

So because they created a game that did so poorly that it could not be sustained with a dwindling subscriber base, we, the remainding subscriber's, are expected to pay more for content that they originally intended to be paid for by from the subscriber's that left the game. Wasn't f2p supposed to be the fix for the lost subscribers?

 

Now I am supposed to understand their need, and they should not understand mine. Well I guess I must be thick headed, because I do not understand.

 

First of all they made the Makeb announcement after the layoff's that you reffered to. Then they slowly dribbled out new content while at the same time diverting their remaining resources to writing f2p code, and now that f2p is live, and they can redirect their people to providing the content that they promissed, they drop the bomb on us that they will now be charging for it. I ask then, what is my subcription paying for?

 

If i started playing today, I could download the base program for free, and could play all content through level 50 without paying a dime if i chose to. However, I started to play in January of 2012, and I paid for the program that they are now giving away for free. I have also paid for several months of subsciber fees based in part on the idea that I would get the content that they prommised without having to pay extra for it. I for one do not think that it is asking to much for EA to honor their original intent, and give this content to me and to others like me.

[LUCASCASADEIS]

Here is a quote from the SWTOR website that annouced the 1.3 update:

 

"With this update, we’ve hit the halfway mark of this year. In that time we’ve released the Legacy system, Group Finder, Guild Banks, Interface Customization and many other game systems, alongside new playable content including Operations, Flashpoints and Warzones. But we have a lot more coming in the second half of 2012. You'll see familiar faces such as HK-51, fly in new space missions, and encounter new Operations, Warzones and a brand new world called Makeb that will allow players to gain new levels. And that’s only the things we’ve talked about so far."

 

Why would they include Makeb in yhe above statement if they planned on chaging for it? So now we get to wait until spring of 2013 to get content that was promised for the second half of 2012, and we get to pay for it's late delivery. How can anybody possibly be upset about that? Better yet, why are so many people defending EA/Bioware on this one?

 

so. have you never arrived late to your job? this is the same thing

[Exly]

so. have you never arrived late to your job? this is the same thing

 

When I arrive late to my job I expect to get paid less, not to be able to charge more.

[CosmicKat]

Make amends to who, you?

Very amusing to say the least.

 

Seems that you are one of those people in this thread who believe that large content updates with level cap and probably much more which will be announced as they have stated, grow on trees and should be handed out free of charge, well it doesn't really work that way.

 

If you think the opinions of the people playing this game are bad, you should speak to those who don't. It's the laughing stock of the industry.

 

Bad press and bad PR are the last things it needs. Throwing a bone to the subscribers is the smart thing to do, and would be a first step at rebuilding a heavily tarnished reputation.

[legbamel]

Someone remind me of the advantage of paying for a sub instead of buying individual unlocks again? (when buying unlocks works out cheaper long term)....

This is precisely my question, now. If I don't do ops and war zones why would I continue to pay them every month when I can't even use the coins they give me for that to buy the level cap increase? I still have enough coins to buy the unlocks that would allow me nearly as much access as I use now.

[DAMossimo]

When I arrive late to my job I expect to get paid less, not to be able to charge more.

 

And if I arrive 3 months late, I would expect not to have a job at all.

[Trevalon]

so. have you never arrived late to your job? this is the same thing

 

lol, If I told my boss a project would be done in 2012 and then have to push it back to 3-4 months into 2013...thats not late, thats almost half a year late and would fully expect to be fired.

[FlyinSpaghetti]

You know we were promised we won't get charged for it.....

It's not about price is about principle, they keep on promising us stuff then keep on backing out, it's infuriating.

 

Agreed, it wouldn't matter if it cost £1 it's still the principle, not just on empty promises but the fact that considering it's only a level increase of 5 suggests it's going to be nothing more than the content we usually get every other month (i.e. a new instance to roam about in, a new op etc).and they're going to charging everyone for it.

 

If it was a whole new chapter to the game then fair enough, a huge lump of content would be worth paying for but one instance is not what I consider to be huge.

 

When the time comes though I might be a hypocrite and buy it if the rest of the gaming market still looks bleak/uninteresting (which is why I'm still playing this), however I'm hoping elder scrolls online hurries itself up so I don't have to.

[DarkoDon]

If you think the opinions of the people playing this game are bad, you should speak to those who don't. It's the laughing stock of the industry.

 

Bad press and bad PR are the last things it needs. Throwing a bone to the subscribers is the smart thing to do, and would be a first step at rebuilding a heavily tarnished reputation.

 

Yea cause last time when they gave us a free month plus a free day, that worked well. People still complained and asked for more. Talk about BEAware being greedy, so are we. Not defending them cause I believe they need to get their heads out of their arses and listen to the gamers, not the investors. An MMO created by one of the best companies for single player games and story telling was a risky move. Of course they had some MMO people on their team, but appearently not enough.

 

I still have hopes that they do end up giving in and actually listening to the playerbase. The main thing that gets me is they may listen, but they don't let us know they are. There's no communication. And as for their strategy of keeping every little bit of info secret till it comes out is just plain retarded. I understand keeping it a secret before the game launched, but now your keeping tiny updates and patch notes secret till dropped is insanity. Continue and this game will surely "burn". Instead of trying to leak us for cash cause your game is failing, why not just fire the forum reps, cause *** are they doing anyway. Then we can get small updates for free with the money you saved.

[dosadnik]

So because they created a game that did so poorly that it could not be sustained with a dwindling subscriber base, we, the remainding subscriber's, are expected to pay more for content that they originally intended to be paid for by from the subscriber's that left the game. Wasn't f2p supposed to be the fix for the lost subscribers?

 

Now I am supposed to understand their need, and they should not understand mine. Well I guess I must be thick headed, because I do not understand.

 

First of all they made the Makeb announcement after the layoff's that you reffered to. Then they slowly dribbled out new content while at the same time diverting their remaining resources to writing f2p code, and now that f2p is live, and they can redirect their people to providing the content that they promissed, they drop the bomb on us that they will now be charging for it. I ask then, what is my subcription paying for?

 

If i started playing today, I could download the base program for free, and could play all content through level 50 without paying a dime if i chose to. However, I started to play in January of 2012, and I paid for the program that they are now giving away for free. I have also paid for several months of subsciber fees based in part on the idea that I would get the content that they prommised without having to pay extra for it. I for one do not think that it is asking to much for EA to honor their original intent, and give this content to me and to others like me.

 

Yes they did originally intend for it to be free. But then many things changed as a I said before there were layoffs they converted to f2p etc. So it no longer seems feasible for them to give it away for free. And it's not really a bomb. They have been saying for several months that they are considering charging for it.

 

Also when are people gonna realize that they have teams of people doing several different things. It's not like everyone was writing f2p code. Probably no more than 5 people were doing that, the rest were developing new content. Now whether or not this content was released when it had to or not is up to marketing who decided to wait after f2p.

 

Back to makeb, it seriously isn't that much I don't really understand why people complain about it. And as far as your paying for subscription before f2p argument, that was all payed off by the Cartel Coins reward program.

 

Again I'm gonna try another analogy. Let's imagine that we have a deal in which you state that you will never harm me in any way ever whatever i do. But then I kidnap your whole family and I kill them. Are you gonna keep your promise and not kill me or are you gonna rip my heart out? Maybe the more brutal version will get through.

 

My point is when the circumstances change so does everything else.

[Lumar]

I was at the release party in Austin. The question was asked about expansions for the game, James Ohlen, Game Director stated we would never pay for an expansion. Why am I now, my deal with SWTOR has not changed, I still subscribe.

[Fraeblood]

What happened to the World being flat, never breaking the sound barrier...... things change.... SWTOR went F2P with a sub... So most of the things said pre F2P and some of them even said after will change...

[Rogoo]

I was at the release party in Austin. The question was asked about expansions for the game, James Ohlen, Game Director stated we would never pay for an expansion. Why am I now, my deal with SWTOR has not changed, I still subscribe.

 

What happened to never paying for an expansion ?

 

It took a HIckman to the knee (this will never get old, lol).

[Kazaganthis]

I really wish people would stop buying Hickmans false advertising. This is NOT an expansion. It is original content update 1.4. Even James Ohlen said it was a content update. Community Support already stated its JUST the size of one of the larger planets in game i.e. Belsavis or Corellia. This is not even CLOSE to an expansion just because they raise the level cap.

[SithInitiate]

The main problem i have with the expansion is as follows:

 

for one, the ONLY reason I would put this in a category of an "expansion" is because of the level cap increase.. without that, im not even sure id put it up to the standards of 1.5 or 1.6.

 

second, at one point you could get Mists of Pandaria for $20. yes it was a sale.. but it doesnt change the fact that for a time, you could get MoP for the same price F2P players will be getting the new expansion for. and right now you can get it for $30. thats only $10 over what bioware is selling this 'expansion' to F2P players for.

 

now lets take a look at other mmo content PATCHES (not expansions) in comparison to TOR's 'expansion':

 

Rift 1.8

 

New 20-player raid: Infernal Dawn

New tradeskills: Fishing and Survival

Instant Adventure: Ember Isle

Guild Finder

Infernal Dawn World Event (i would argue this is even more than what this expansion is offering)

 

more details: http://www.riftgame.com/en/game/upda...ernal-dawn.php

 

WoW 4.2

 

New Daily Quests: The Regrowth and Molten Front

New Quest Chain: Elemental Bonds

New Raid: The Firelands

New Legendary Item: Dragonwrath, Tarecgosa's Rest

New User Interface Feature: Dungeon Journal

 

more details: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/2993743

 

how am i supposed to get excited for this expansion when other games, even ones with way lower of a budget (Rift).. can release content like above for FREE.

 

and now its been confirmed that we arent even going to get a continuation on our story missions.. which, quite frankly would be the main reason for me getting the expansion pack. and im sure im not alone here.

 

link: http://www.swtor.com/community/showt...40#post5600140

 

finally, whether people want to here it or not.. this content WAS, at one point, going to be offered as a content patch and free.. sorry it was. this in itself is reason for people to be put off by this expansion. you can deny it all you want and say "free" was never mentioned.. but the interview clearly implies Makeb was going to be a content patch and hence free to subscribers. for reference. here is the interview:

 

 

anyway.. just my 2 cents. i want this game to succeed.. i really do. but EA/Bioware is making that REALLY difficult.

[WaywardOne]

I was at the release party in Austin. The question was asked about expansions for the game, James Ohlen, Game Director stated we would never pay for an expansion. Why am I now, my deal with SWTOR has not changed, I still subscribe.

 

Youtube or it didn't happen. I can't imagine a game producer ever saying that.

[Kazaganthis]

Youtube or it didn't happen. I can't imagine a game producer ever saying that.

 

Hes partially right. It was content updates they said wed never pay for. And guess what? Makeb has ALWAYS been a content update until they realized they could charge us. Look it up. Makeb was datamined at LAUNCH as CONTENT UPDATE 1.4. James Ohlen said it was a content update. Hickman Effect came in and just slapped "Expansion" next to it. Come back to reality.

[CrimsonOrigin]

1. Not an expansion.

 

2. Even if you see it as an expansion, its quite cheap.

[Arkerus]

Hes partially right. It was content updates they said wed never pay for. And guess what? Makeb has ALWAYS been a content update until they realized they could charge us. Look it up. Makeb was datamined at LAUNCH as CONTENT UPDATE 1.4. James Ohlen said it was a content update. Hickman Effect came in and just slapped "Expansion" next to it. Come back to reality.

 

What was datamined was the original content that was makeb. It pretty apparent since that's happened they took makeb, added new levels, added whatever else they added (a new OP, etc) and made it an expansion.

 

 

I'm ok with that.

[CrimsonOrigin]

Its only $10. Not to mention this isn't an expansion but more of a DLC. I mean, I have to pay more for less-content DLC on console games.

 

If anything, this is more of a treat for me, especially since we now know where all their work has been flooding into.

Edited December 20, 2012 by CrimsonOrigin

[grombrinda]

Its only $10. Not to mention this isn't an expansion but more of a DLC. I mean, I have to pay more for less-content DLC on console games.

 

If anything, this is more of a treat for me, especially since we now know where all their work has been flooding into.

 

Well they could fix this if we could only use cartel coins to buy the darn thing.