New Shinarika Shadow / Assassin PvP Video.

[Xinika]

Not that its relevant, but I do play as heals and on the best team of our faction on the server. But I wasn't comparing 31/31/31 specs, funny that a shadow would be the one to do that to a scoundrel when they always complain that people do it to them. If you think our pitiful off heals as DPS spec though are as good as your ability to off taunt in a rated setting you aren't having an honest conversation. If your force speed alone doesn't give you more utility in a rated WZ than DPS scoundrels you aren't being honest.

Really? This is where your post was headed:

So if shadows aren't OP, and I"m not 100% convinced they are, you will at least concede that DPS scoundrels need to be buffed to the point at which they consistently beat shadows in 1v1s or 2v2s?

You certain you're thinking through your own posts? Seems a bit feisty for an 'unbiased' opinion.

 

Oh and don't think for a movement I'll feel pity for shadows when there tank tree is arguably the best in the game

An assumption. Also irrelevant for a comeback. If you wish to twist my words, use a better statement and be more creative.

 

As for the 1v1 mentality not working it is understandable that you don't see the value of every once in a while letting a 1v1 happen between extremely balanced teams because you need the 1 body advantage to take the contested node. You'll just have to take my word for it that its relevant if not common.

Nothing to add here.

 

But I'll reword it so that it applicable more easily applied to ranked warzones in your mind. Shadows are jack of all trades master of node guarding. Better? You can argue that jack of all trades is balanced, you can't argue that jack of all trades but also best at one thing is balanced. And it doesn't have to be scrappers, that beat shadows if they are going to be jacks of all trades, but someone has to beat them, and it should probably be the other 1v1 class just because scrappers are so bad in group combat and shadows aren't.

Again, what is with the hatred toward Shadows bound so specifically? This conversation is unproductive, as in your heart you are seemingly out for the class itself. Here's the issue with your logic. You take away that niche, and the Shadow suddenly falls behind - greatly. If it were to happen, then the class would need to be buffed.

 

If it were to be that way, then we should be buffed in direct combat areas. I know you have it in for Shadows, but think it through logically. A shadow is a wasted spot as a forefront runner in ground combat situations. Want to compare to Scoundrel? They're out there healing in the front. Who's taking that away from them?

 

Want to compare with guardians/sents? Who's taking those smashes or combat trans away from them?

Want to compare with Assault VGs? Who's taking away that absurd almost unmatched upfront damage from them?

 

You understand where this conversation is going?

Edited December 28, 2012 by Xinika

[Smashbrother]

I've got the class nerfed before, won't be anything new. The issue with warriors is the fact that smash stacking is quite frankly, beneficial to a more supportive team effort than picking another class. How on earth is it logical that an AoE is allowed to be the hardest hitting move without any target caps?

 

It does have a cap. 5.

 

Stop standing together like scared kittens and the sweep bombs won't be as effective. Having said that, focus does need to be nerfed so we can't just ignore crit.

 

 

Shadows are a creative class but they're far from overpowered. They are solid at best.

 

They're definitely in top 3 overall, and first or second for 1v1s.

Edited December 28, 2012 by Smashbrother

[Xinika]

They're definitely in top 3 overall, and first or second for 1v1s.

Sure, but overpowered? No.

[Asunasan]

An assumption. Also irrelevant for a comeback. If you wish to twist my words, use a better statement and be more creative.

Why would I do that? The entire point was to show that best healer argument was balanced against the best tank argument. Replacing a few of your words effectively did so.

 

 

Again, what is with the hatred toward Shadows bound so specifically? This conversation is unproductive, as in your heart you are seemingly out for the class itself. Here's the issue with your logic. You take away that niche, and the Shadow suddenly falls behind - greatly. If it were to happen, then the class would need to be buffed.

 

If it were to be that way, then we should be buffed in direct combat areas. I know you have it in for Shadows, but think it through logically. A shadow is a wasted spot as a forefront runner in ground combat situations. Want to compare to Scoundrel? They're out there healing in the front. Who's taking that away from them?

 

Want to compare with guardians/sents? Who's taking those smashes or combat trans away from them?

Want to compare with Assault VGs? Who's taking away that absurd almost unmatched upfront damage from them?

 

You understand where this conversation is going?

 

I'm not actually out to get shadows nerfed, your right that they would struggle for a spot if there tankasin spec was nerfed. Though I should point out both a balance and deception are more viable in a dps slot in rated than a scrapper or dirty fighter (not that any are great choices) I actually think Shadows and Snipers are two of the most balanced classes in the game. It was just the amount of "oh we aren't good at anything in rateds except watching nodes have pity on us" in this thread that made me decide that a reminder that there is another stealth class and it really doesn't have a spot was necessary. I compare scrappers to Tankasins because they fill the same role, stealth off node guard and occasional off node strike. The thing is though Scrappers can never have a role in rateds as long as shadows are the best 1v1ers. The spot will always go to a equally skilled shadow because the class/spec has better off node play and better large group play if the main combat area switches onto their node. So its not really that I'm out to get shadows, again I think they are pretty much balanced and Smash/bubble stun needs to be looked at before anything, but scrappers CAN'T be reverent in rateds if tankasins are both the best Off node players and better than them at large group play. Since there isn't a good way to buff scrappers group utility to be better than that of shadows, we pretty much have to be made better 1v1ers than shadows.

 

Oh well I derailed your thread and it probably wasn't necessary, so I'll try to let it get back to spec discussion but please stop pretending things like

You're joking right? This class has been nerfed time and time again. There's nothing overpowered about this class in the slightest.

 

1v1 - which by the way, holds no ground in competitive group PvP.

are true. Shadows are still in a very good place and 1v1 superiority is exactly why they get the off node. Finally, remember that the other stealth 1v1 class would like to be able to fulfill the off node role that the shadows in this thread seem to hate being pigeon holed into so much, but they can't because shadows unquestionably do it better and contribute more to the group.

 

 

edit: Oh and my team still runs a tankasin at the main node, before smash buffs All of the serious teams on the server did, hell 1 team even ran a balance shadow. Once smash gets nerfed I hope and expect you guys will get back to the main node.

Edited December 28, 2012 by Asunasan

[Xinika]

Why would I do that? The entire point was to show that best healer argument was balanced against the best tank argument. Replacing a few of your words effectively did so.

I'd argue on effectiveness, but leave it at that - this is unproductive.

 

 

 

 

I'm not actually out to get shadows nerfed, your right that they would struggle for a spot if there tankasin spec was nerfed. Though I should point out both a balance and deception are more viable in a dps slot in rated than a scrapper or dirty fighter (not that any are great choices) I actually think Shadows and Snipers are two of the most balanced classes in the game. It was just the amount of "oh we aren't good at anything in rateds except watching nodes have pity on us" in this thread that made me decide that a reminder that there is another stealth class and it really doesn't have a spot was necessary. I compare scrappers to Tankasins because they fill the same role, stealth off node guard and occasional off node strike. The thing is though Scrappers can never have a role in rateds as long as shadows are the best 1v1ers. The spot will always go to a equally skilled shadow because the class/spec has better off node play and better large group play if the main combat area switches onto their node. So its not really that I'm out to get shadows, again I think they are pretty much balanced and Smash/bubble stun needs to be looked at before anything, but scrappers CAN'T be reverent in rateds if tankasins are both the best Off node players and better than them at large group play. Since there isn't a good way to buff scrappers group utility to be better than that of shadows, we pretty much have to be made better 1v1ers than shadows.

 

Oh well I derailed your thread and it probably wasn't necessary, so I'll try to let it get back to spec discussion but please stop pretending things like

are true. Shadows are still in a very good place and 1v1 superiority is exactly why they get the off node. Finally, remember that the other stealth 1v1 class would like to be able to fulfill the off node role that the shadows in this thread seem to hate being pigeon holed into so much, but they can't because shadows unquestionably do it better and contribute more to the group.

 

 

edit: Oh and my team still runs a tankasin at the main node, before smash buffs All of the serious teams on the server did, hell 1 team even ran a balance shadow. Once smash gets nerfed I hope and expect you guys will get back to the main node.

What do I have to add to this? This is where the metagame is and based on the core concept of the Shadow class, what you're asking for would be a complete overhaul.

 

Edit: Deception... in ranked? Gl.

Edited December 28, 2012 by Xinika

[Cowflab]

It does have a cap. 5.

 

Stop standing together like scared kittens and the sweep bombs won't be as effective. Having said that, focus does need to be nerfed so we can't just ignore crit.

 

 

 

 

They're definitely in top 3 overall, and first or second for 1v1s.

 

Scared kittens tend to scatter when frightened. That was not a good analogy.

[TonyDragonflame]

Sure, but overpowered? No.

 

"I am not OP!" © every OP

[Ruskaeth]

I PvP with an infiltration shadow and I especially enjoy teasing healers. It's so much fun to haunt'em through the wz constantly. Granted that it would be easier with lolsmash, but still, as a shadow it feels much more like a versatile game.

 

[AMKSED]

It does have a cap. 5.

 

Stop standing together like scared kittens and the sweep bombs won't be as effective. Having said that, focus does need to be nerfed so we can't just ignore crit.

 

 

 

 

They're definitely in top 3 overall, and first or second for 1v1s.

 

Why do you still make an attempt to come to the PvP forums and defend/state about things that aren't even true or valid because you and your entire guild isn't even good at PvP?

[Johnny_Blazexxx]

Every discussion about Shadows, Guardians and Vanguards revolves around one simple matter, that's been tampered with by players since the beginning. Should tanks be able to do damage? Of course they should, but is it supposed to be on equal level as dedicated DPS classes? Tanks will answer "yes" and the rest will say "no". Either with heavy armor and/or defensive CDs they're able to outdps everybody else and guard people at the same time (obviously shadows don't wear heavy, but they've got CDs and healing). Out of 20 people or even more playing a tank class, only one person actually can play a tank (like Shin's teammate Ladispute for example), rest is mindlessly dps-whoring, because as a tank you will be able to survive longer in comparison to pure DPS classes (maybe excluding the marauder), so it's easier, more comfortable.

 

+++

 

I am against tanks being able to make the same damage output as DPS classes. That's why I think Shadow's tank tree is the weirdest of all three. VG's talents offer AoE mitigation, shield proccs and utility. Guardian's offer self-mitigation and utility... and Shadow's tanking tree offers threat and damage proccs. I understand it's a light armored class, but there's nothing tanky in tank tree, except maybe tier 1 and 2 talents. And since it is light armored class, IMO shadows should have more defensive talents/proccs to match heavy armored guys instead of constantly buffing up project or tele wave.

[cycao]

Every discussion about Shadows, Guardians and Vanguards revolves around one simple matter, that's been tampered with by players since the beginning. Should tanks be able to do damage? Of course they should, but is it supposed to be on equal level as dedicated DPS classes? Tanks will answer "yes" and the rest will say "no". Either with heavy armor and/or defensive CDs they're able to outdps everybody else and guard people at the same time (obviously shadows don't wear heavy, but they've got CDs and healing). Out of 20 people or even more playing a tank class, only one person actually can play a tank (like Shin's teammate Ladispute for example), rest is mindlessly dps-whoring, because as a tank you will be able to survive longer in comparison to pure DPS classes (maybe excluding the marauder), so it's easier, more comfortable.

 

+++

 

I am against tanks being able to make the same damage output as DPS classes. That's why I think Shadow's tank tree is the weirdest of all three. VG's talents offer AoE mitigation, shield proccs and utility. Guardian's offer self-mitigation and utility... and Shadow's tanking tree offers threat and damage proccs. I understand it's a light armored class, but there's nothing tanky in tank tree, except maybe tier 1 and 2 talents. And since it is light armored class, IMO shadows should have more defensive talents/proccs to match heavy armored guys instead of constantly buffing up project or tele wave.

 

Trust me, when running dark charge I cannot out dps a marauder, a jug, or pt's...at least I shouldn't be.

[KettleBelll]

Trust me, when running dark charge I cannot out dps a marauder, a jug, or pt's...at least I shouldn't be.

 

 

Truth in this post!

 

 

If another player is out DPSing you in Tank stance, then that player would BLOW YOU WAY on a true DPS class.

[Johnny_Blazexxx]

Truth in this post!

If another player is out DPSing you in Tank stance, then that player would BLOW YOU WAY on a true DPS class.

 

Nice try :-)

 

++++

 

Cycao:

 

Well Sir, assuming that you are serious... it's not a matter of trusting you (I do), but rather making a choice: would you like to go 750/50/50 (prot and healing are intentionally lowered for higher dmg), or 300/250/150?

[cycao]

Nice try :-)

 

++++

 

Cycao:

 

Well Sir, assuming that you are serious... it's not a matter of trusting you (I do), but rather making a choice: would you like to go 750/50/50 (prot and healing are intentionally lowered for higher dmg), or 300/250/150?

 

What are you basing these numbers off of, rated, regs, average length warzone? If I wanted to put up great damage I would play a class that can do that but my only main is my assassin so I can only speak in terms of what character I can play. Its apples and oranges, putting up insane dps helps your team and putting up average dps with good protection (150k healslol) also helps.

 

My point is that there are 4 really good damage classes that are totally wanted in rateds for there DPS and honestly we (my guild) talked about assassin hybrid and tank jug and the only reason assassins are wanted now over a jug tank is because they can put up ok numbers in a rated environment because "tank" wise myself and others feel jugs are just as good as assassins and sometimes are better at times (there smash/tank hybrid is also not so bad). A nerf, which apparently two is not enough would pretty much kill what chances we have at having a spot on a rated team since as it stands every single advanced class with the exception of mercs/commandos have one ranked viable build and also trust me when I say that no team will put an assassin dps build on a ranked team.

 

I use ranked to set the example because for the most part you run into total group synergy with heals/tank/dps and consist of players who have optimized gear and know completely the ins and outs of there class and rolls. I could care less if I put up insane numbers in a pug group, numbers don't really mean much in regs.

[Exilim]

Shadows and Assassins are the easiest class to excel with and that's been my opinion since July 2011.

[Leafy_Bug]

So you lot push for another nerf because after 1 year you cannot recognise the major flaws of the class? I see most of you frowning now but the fact that you lose against a shadow is your lack of practice. There was someone here who made a very valid point. When a shadow tank in 31 0 10 tops the charts in damage there is something very wrong with the team and the guys who played damage in that warzone need to roll a different class or learn to play theirs. In hardcore warzones where i do 600k dmg and 350k protection, i feel that i need more keys on my keyboard and more fingers on my left hand. From what I see, many think this class plays itself and we just sit there afk during the whole warzone. Edited December 28, 2012 by Leafy_Bug

[Cowflab]

So you lot push for another nerf because after 1 year you cannot recognise the major flaws of the class? I see most of you frowning now but the fact that you lose against a shadow is your lack of practice. There was someone here who made a very valid point. When a shadow tank in 31 0 10 tops the charts in damage there is something very wrong with the team and the guys who played damage in that warzone need to roll a different class or learn to play theirs. In hardcore warzones where i do 600k dmg and 350k protection, i feel that i need more keys on my keyboard and more fingers on my left hand. From what I see, many think this class plays itself and we just sit there afk during the whole warzone.

 

You didn't know? Apparently us assassins/shadows now have an option box at character creation that says "gain 31/31/31 spec, instant level 50, and full EWH gear set. Do you accept these terms and conditions?"

[Johnny_Blazexxx]

What are you basing these numbers off of, rated, regs, average length warzone?

 

Nothing.

 

My point is that there are 4 really good damage classes that are totally wanted in rateds for there DPS and honestly we (my guild) talked about assassin hybrid and tank jug and the only reason assassins are wanted now over a jug tank is because they can put up ok numbers in a rated environment because "tank" wise myself and others feel jugs are just as good as assassins and sometimes are better at times (there smash/tank hybrid is also not so bad). A nerf, which apparently two is not enough would pretty much kill what chances we have at having a spot on a rated team since as it stands every single advanced class with the exception of mercs/commandos have one ranked viable build and also trust me when I say that no team will put an assassin dps build on a ranked team.

 

You started to talk as I'd feel like trolling you, but you redeemed yourself. My point would be exactly the same as you said. Moreover, tank assassins are wanted in a rated setup because of versatility. Especially with field respec. Even without it, you get the most specs you can imagine when it comes to a single class. But the main reason to take (more than 2 or even 3) tanksins for a rated team is utility. No matter what WZ you get into, double pull on a single defended door/node on Void/Alderaan is more viable than leaping and ranged interrupts. I tried to be bottomline cynical on Shin's WZonia, but she marked me as spam.

 

I use ranked to set the example because for the most part you run into total group synergy with heals/tank/dps and consist of players who have optimized gear and know completely the ins and outs of there class and rolls. I could care less if I put up insane numbers in a pug group, numbers don't really mean much in regs.

 

Well because in ranked you would go 50/500/250 (and I trust you to ba able to put up these numbers no problem) which is ever more useful than 8 operatives, 4/3 OPs/Sins 1 Mara, 4/3 OPs/Juggs 1 Mara, 8/7 Sins 1 Mara. IMO this game since the beggining was all about utility (some people call it stunwars). There's no need for DPS, there's need for people taking other people out of combat.

 

My point IS (except for what you said, with which I completely agree): Tanks shouldn't be able to do damage in tank spec (hybrid whatevershenaniganspec) equivalent to DPS classes.

[Xinika]

My point IS (except for what you said, with which I completely agree): Tanks shouldn't be able to do damage in tank spec (hybrid whatevershenaniganspec) equivalent to DPS classes.

And they're not. So what's the problem?

[darkmatterboy]

 

Watchmen

Jedi Shadow PvP

 

And so the series continues...

 

17/1/23 : http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/skills/Shadow#220923e-1-c72e832f

2/31/8: http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/skills/Shadow#20-7c8ef78cif-30f

5/5/31: http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/skills/Shadow#3c-f-13e72e8f2f

27/0/14: http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/skills/Shadow#e79e162fe-0-8830f

0/27/14: http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/skills/Shadow#0-c8cf78cif-8830f

 

Agreed with you - jedi shadow must be nerfed, bcz Assissins can't have so big dps like shadow.

[Darth_Acherus]

These threads get so ridiculous.

[Xinika]

Agreed with you - jedi shadow must be nerfed, bcz Assissins can't have so big dps like shadow.

Funny thing is, if you look at my video - my damage isn't even anything that great. A spike here and there but have you looked at the elongated clips?

Edited December 28, 2012 by Xinika

[Darth_Acherus]

Funny thing is, if you look at my video - my damage isn't even anything that great. A spike here and there but have you looked at the elongated clips?

 

People are just looking for a reason as to why they keep losing to shadows/sins.

[Smashbrother]

Why do you still make an attempt to come to the PvP forums and defend/state about things that aren't even true or valid because you and your entire guild isn't even good at PvP?

 

Who the **** are you?

[Xinika]

Who the **** are you?

 

This thread is going places....