New Shinarika Shadow / Assassin PvP Video.

[Smashbrother]

Sure, but overpowered? No.

 

Then what's your definition of overpowered?

 

If commandos are underpowered because they're performing below average, then it makes sense any class performing above average is overpowered.

 

But I would only consider the hybrid tankasin spec as being OP. The middle tree could use a slight buff, and right tree needs big buffs so people would actually go full 31 into both.

 

Oh and 1v1 is important in RWZs, because all of the WZs (except huttball) are designed with having someone to guard an off node. So a class' ability to excel at 1v1 or 2v2 is extremely important for RWZs.

Edited December 28, 2012 by Smashbrother

[Smashbrother]

This thread is going places....

 

Not my fault I've got stalkers.

Edited December 28, 2012 by Smashbrother

[Xinika]

Then what's your definition of overpowered?

Something that is gamebreaking. Shadows are not.

 

If commandos are underpowered because they're performing below average, then it makes sense any class performing above average is overpowered.

You leave no response for this statement.

 

But I would only consider the hybrid tankasin spec as being OP. The middle tree could use a slight buff, and right tree needs big buffs so people would actually go full 31 into both.

Roll a Shadow. Please, roll a shadow and try a Hybrid out and tell me if it's really overpowered. It's strong, but not gamebreaking at all. The hybrid's niche is versatility. Inb4damagenumbersinflatedbyFIBAoE.

 

And did you just say the middle tree? The middle tree just got buffed and does anyone want it in ranked? Nope.

Figured out why yet? I'll let you think on that for some time.

 

Oh and 1v1 is important in RWZs, because all of the WZs (except huttball) are designed with having someone to guard an off node. So a class' ability to excel at 1v1 or 2v2 is extremely important for RWZs.

Wow, outstanding philosophy! "Hey guys, one over here - I'm going to 1v1 RATHER THAN STALL."

I'll be sure to get that memo going about.

[Smashbrother]

Something that is gamebreaking. Shadows are not.

 

 

You leave no response for this statement.

 

Well I believe there are degrees of OPness. Not just one level. Like certain class/specs may be more OP than another.

 

 

Roll a Shadow. Please, roll a shadow and try a Hybrid out and tell me if it's really overpowered. It's strong, but not gamebreaking at all. The hybrid's niche is versatility. Inb4damagenumbersinflatedbyFIBAoE.

 

I have a 49 shadow, and the hybrid tankasin has stupid crazy surv and can solo pretty much anyone by outlasting them. And then there's all the crazy good utility.

 

And did you just say the middle tree? The middle tree just got buffed and does anyone want it in ranked? Nope.

Figured out why yet? I'll let you think on that for some time.

 

The buffs to middle tree were mostly bottom heavy. The talents at the top are subpar. The 31 talent looks cool, but isn't that great.

 

And yes, it sucks people aren't able to play middle tree in RWZs.

 

Wow, outstanding philosophy! "Hey guys, one over here - I'm going to 1v1 RATHER THAN STALL."

I'll be sure to get that memo going about.

 

I've been in quite a few RWZs that have been won/lost because of a 1v1 or 2v2 at the off-node. So excelling at small scale pvp is important.

[Xinika]

Well I believe there are degrees of OPness. Not just one level. Like certain class/specs may be more OP than another.

Opinion v Opinion arguments is pointless and I have nothing to add here.

 

 

 

 

I have a 49 shadow, and the hybrid tankasin has stupid crazy surv and can solo pretty much anyone by outlasting them. And then there's all the crazy good utility.

Grats, the 49 bracket is nothing like the 50.

 

 

 

The buffs to middle tree were mostly bottom heavy. The talents at the top are subpar. The 31 talent looks cool, but isn't that great.

 

And yes, it sucks people aren't able to play middle tree in RWZs.

Unless they were to buff it to the point of being brokenly overpowered, this tree's purpose in ranked is poor. Why? Because it's designed around being a lone wolf. Ranked is a team play effort.

 

 

 

I've been in quite a few RWZs that have been won/lost because of a 1v1 or 2v2 at the off-node. So excelling at small scale pvp is important.

That's your team's fault for allowing 1v1s to dictate a team play effort. Has nothing to do with class balance at this point.

[Smashbrother]

Grats, the 49 bracket is nothing like the 50.

 

So you have a 50 of every class and have all done RWZs with them? Because if your argument is that you need a 50 of that class in order to comment about the state of that class, you're an idiot.

 

 

Unless they were to buff it to the point of being brokenly overpowered, this tree's purpose in ranked is poor. Why? Because it's designed around being a lone wolf. Ranked is a team play effort.

 

The problem is because a hybrid tankasin makes for a better lone wolf spec, than full middle tree.

 

Still, it sucks people can't spec what they want in RWZs, and I don't see why you're so against it.

 

 

 

That's your team's fault for allowing 1v1s to dictate a team play effort. Has nothing to do with class balance at this point.

 

Why does everyone use a tankasin to guard off-node (if one is available)?

Edited December 28, 2012 by Smashbrother

[Xinika]

So you have a 50 of every class and have all done RWZs with them? Because if your argument is that you need a 50 of that class in order to comment about the state of that class, you're an idiot.

Speak for yourself - that's your "idiotic" logic. My request was try the Hybrid at 50, preferably in ranked warzones and come back with your hellbent view. Though, how could you? You're already set on proving it's 'overpowered', so logically, your judgment is by default: blurred from a clear decision.

 

 

 

 

The problem is because a hybrid tankasin makes for a better lone wolf spec, than full middle tree.

No, it doesn't. Try a build 0/27/14 and come back again with that perspective.

 

Still, it sucks people can't spec what they want in RWZs, and I don't see why you're so against it.

At what point did I say I was against it? If you're going to use my words, make sure I said it.

 

 

 

Why does everyone use a tankasin to guard off-node (if one is available)?

Because it's the best staller. See that? Staller. Not 1v1er. It can sap, stealth, sap again and harass until backup arrives. Do you get it yet?

 

PS: Your knowledge of the class is impaired and limited. 0/27/14 for example, will destroy a hybrid in a 1v1 setting. I guess the middle tree's overpowered and needs a nerf?

Edited December 28, 2012 by Xinika

[cycao]

Slow down I need to make more popcorn I'm running out over here.

[Technohic]

Is this a good spot for me to complain about the nerfing of pure darkness builds while I see complaints about the darkness hybrid?

[Smashbrother]

Speak for yourself - that's your "idiotic" logic. My request was try the Hybrid at 50, preferably in ranked warzones and come back with your hellbent view. Though, how could you? You're already set on proving it's 'overpowered', so logically, your judgment is by default: blurred from a clear decision.

 

I've played enough times against sins/shadows to know what they're capable of. Unlike sents/guardians, their level 50 ability isn't game changing. Anything else?

 

Didn't you answer my question. Do you have a 50 of every class and done RWZs with them?

 

 

 

 

 

No, it doesn't. Try a build 0/27/14 and come back again with that perspective.

 

 

At what point did I say I was against it? If you're going to use my words, make sure I said it.

 

"Unless they were to buff it to the point of being brokenly overpowered, this tree's purpose in ranked is poor."

 

That is an absolute made by you. Obviously, nobody wants gamebreakers, including you. So thus, you don't want middle tree buffed.

 

I can see BW buffing middle tree w/o breaking the game, but you apparently can't.

 

 

 

Because it's the best staller. See that? Staller. Not 1v1er. It can sap, stealth, sap again and harass until backup arrives. Do you get it yet?

 

Scoundrel can do all those thinks you listed too. Tank guardian can stall a really long *** time also with their CDs up. We've used sents as node guarders when we didn't have a shadow, and they do stall well too.

 

Yet everyone uses tankasin. Why? Because they can 1v1 any class, which means you don't need to send backup to help them when an enemy sends 1 guy. This means you don't lose a person from the main node, which could cost you the game. Thus, the ability to 1v1 is important in this game's RWZ.

 

PS: Your knowledge of the class is impaired and limited. 0/27/14 for example, will destroy a hybrid in a 1v1 setting. I guess the middle tree's overpowered and needs a nerf?

 

No they don't. Dps hybrid might win, but it would take a while and is most certainly not a one way "destroy".

Edited December 28, 2012 by Smashbrother

[Xinika]

Didn't answer my question. Do you have a 50 of every class and done RWZs with them?

Your question is illogical and houses no relevance to the argument, therefore it will be ignored.

 

 

 

 

 

 

"Unless they were to buff it to the point of being brokenly overpowered, this tree's purpose in ranked is poor."

 

That is an absolute made by you. Obviously, nobody wants gamebreakers, including you. So thus, you don't want middle tree buffed.

 

I can see BW buffing middle tree w/o breaking the game, but you apparently can't.

Where in that statement shows that I am against people playing that spec? Go on, show me. I'm waiting.

 

 

 

 

Scoundrel can do all those thinks you listed too. Tank guardian can stall a really long *** time also with their CDs up. We've used sents as node guarders when we didn't have a shadow, and they do stall well too.

 

Yet everyone uses tankasin. Why? Because they can 1v1 any class, which means you don't need to send backup to help them when an enemy sends 1 guy. This means you don't lose a person from the main node, which could cost you the game. Thus, the ability to 1v1 is important in this game's RWZ.

So what happens when you send the Infil Hybrid over there? If your team is that poor in strategy formation then this is a problem with your team. I hate to say it, but this is a L2P issue. The tanksin can last long enough for help through defensive CDs, but the intention is never to 1v1. This is the difference between the scrapper.

 

 

 

No they don't. Dps hybrid might win, but it would take a while and is most certainly not a one way "destroy".

Again, your knowledge of this class is severely limited. Have you tried the spec or had a run-in with a good Infil player? I certainly beg to differ.

Edited December 28, 2012 by Xinika

[Smashbrother]

Your question is illogical and houses no relevance to the argument, therefore it will be ignored.

 

You claim my opinion of tankasins is invalid because I don't have one at 50, even though I have one at 49. But it doesn't count cause 50 is only what matters according to you.

 

Well unless you have a 50 of every class and did RWZs with them, you can't claim to understand every class' relative power level. Thus, you saying "shadows aren't OP" is also invalid because you've no clue as to all the other class' potential. Well, according to your logic.

 

 

 

Where in that statement shows that I am against people playing that spec? Go on, show me. I'm waiting.

 

You're against buffing it. It not getting buffed = no good team will take them. Thus, they can't spec however they want.

 

 

 

So what happens when you send the Infil Hybrid over there? If your team is that poor in strategy formation then this is a problem with your team. I hate to say it, but this is an L2P issue.

 

Few, if any, team runs with a middle tree hybrid. But if the enemy does send one, the tankasin can live long enough to call for backup. No big deal.

 

 

Again, your knowledge of this class is severely limited. Have you tried the spec or had a run-in with a good Infil player? I certainly beg to differ.

 

You just said so yourself that tankasins are best stallers. So why are they magically unable to stall when a middle tree hybrid comes to their node? The tankasin can outright kill anyone else, but they can resort to stalling if the somehow get attacked by one.

Edited December 28, 2012 by Smashbrother

[Xinika]

You claim my opinion of tankasins is invalid because I don't have one at 50, even though I have one at 49. But it doesn't count cause 50 is only what matters according to you.

 

Well unless you have a 50 of every class and did RWZs with them, you can't claim to understand every class' relative power level. Thus, you saying "shadows aren't OP" is also invalid because you've no clue as to all the other class' potential. Well, according to your logic.

This is your perspective and has nothing to do with what I said. You're the one that inserted your illogical unrelated query. Again, speak for yourself and answer your own illogic.

 

 

You're against buffing it. It not getting buffed = no good team will take them. Thus, they can't spec however they want.

And again! Another made up story. Show me where I am against buffing it. Please, I'm waiting.

 

 

You just said so yourself that tankasins are best stallers. So why are they magically unable to stall when a middle tree hybrid comes to their node? The tankasin can outright kill anyone else, but they can resort to stalling if the somehow get attacked by one.

Oh, I was simply using the whole '1v1' logic over the 'stalling' logic. You know, using your logic? And according to your logic, that tanksin is in for a world of surprises when it comes to the 1v1 corner...

Edited December 28, 2012 by Xinika

[RankorSSGS]

IMO, the tank tree does need some minor adjustments to the amount of damage it can put out. It can't be anything major for PvE's sake, but there are a ton of talents in that tree that are for doing damage, not tanking. Makes no sense to me at least. Shadow is my main class, and I'm tired of being forced into a build I find boring because none of the fun builds are desirable.

 

At the same time, both our dps trees need some more love IMO. Any nerfs to the tank tree need to be equaled out in buffs to Infil and Balance. There needs to be good reason to go all the way to the 31 point talent, rather than just hybrids. I have not played Balance enough to comment, but I think I can speak about what Infil needs.

 

Clairvoyant Strike is a pretty big joke right now. I think that it would be a good idea to give CS an increased chance to proc Shadow Technique. I'd go so far as to say 100% like Carnage Marauder's Massacre proccing Ataru, but that might be a bit OP. So maybe 50%. This would increase the damage of CS by itself, and also make building stacks for Breach easier and more reliable. Those stacks are far too annoying to build up currently. Profundity is also a complete waste of 3 points, but is necessary for Exit Strategy. I propose reducing the internal CD on this to 5 seconds. This also helps with the sustained Force Management issues Infil suffers in PvE.

 

Particle Acceleration is a weird talent. I honestly think such a high damage skill has no place in the tank tree. Ideally, I'd like to see It put into the Infil tree where Humbling Strike is, and move HS down to where vigor is, since vigor is useless as well. Now, that would be OP, so some changes to PA would be necessary. Make it require Shadow Technique, have CS also be able to proc it, and instead of an auto crit, have it increase crit chance of Project by maybe 30%. There would need to be a suitable replacement in the tank tree, maybe having Project cause a defensive ability, similar to Blade Barrier that Guardian tanks get.

 

Thoughts?

 

Oh, and @Shin and Smash, just drop it would you both? You both have your opinions, and obviously are not going to convince the other. Can we try to turn this back into something productive?

Edited December 28, 2012 by RankorSSGS

[Xinika]

IMO, the tank tree does need some minor adjustments to the amount of damage it can put out. It can't be anything major for PvE's sake, but there are a ton of talents in that tree that are for doing damage, not tanking. Makes no sense to me at least. Shadow is my main class, and I'm tired of being forced into a build I find boring because none of the fun builds are desirable.

VG tanks do more damage than Shadow tanks and have more stand-up survivability. If any changes were to be made to the Shadow tanking tree regarding less damage, then it will need some high powered survivability buffs.

 

At the same time, both our dps trees need some more love IMO. Any nerfs to the tank tree need to be equaled out in buffs to Infil and Balance. There needs to be good reason to go all the way to the 31 point talent, rather than just hybrids. I have not played Balance enough to comment, but I think I can speak about what Infil needs.

The issue with Infil is its core concept. That aspect would need to be changed IF you want to see it in large scale combat such as ranked. Balance is disgustingly squishy and mediocre in its overall pay off. That's the tree that needs the most love right now.

 

Clairvoyant Strike is a pretty big joke right now. I think that it would be a good idea to give CS an increased chance to proc Shadow Technique. I'd go so far as to say 100% like Carnage Marauder's Massacre proccing Ataru, but that might be a bit OP. So maybe 50%. This would increase the damage of CS by itself, and also make building stacks for Breach easier and more reliable. Those stacks are far too annoying to build up currently. Profundity is also a complete waste of 3 points, but is necessary for Exit Strategy. I propose reducing the internal CD on this to 5 seconds. This also helps with the sustained Force Management issues Infil suffers in PvE.

CS has to be one of the most useless abilities in the game. It indeed needs love, but I doubt it'd happen anytime soon.

 

Particle Acceleration is a weird talent. I honestly think such a high damage skill has no place in the tank tree. Ideally, I'd like to see It put into the Infil tree where Humbling Strike is, and move HS down to where vigor is, since vigor is useless as well. Now, that would be OP, so some changes to PA would be necessary. Make it require Shadow Technique, have CS also be able to proc it, and instead of an auto crit, have it increase crit chance of Project by maybe 30%. There would need to be a suitable replacement in the tank tree, maybe having Project cause a defensive ability, similar to Blade Barrier that Guardian tanks get.

 

Thoughts?

This would make infil's burst stupendous and overboard. It will be overpowered yet the need for infil will STILL be little to none, and the tank tree will take a hit, reducing our viability further.

Edited December 28, 2012 by Xinika

[NamikazeNaruto]

Lol @ this smashbrother guy being on a crusade against Shadows saying they are overpowered when things like 10k SMASH AoEs that hit 5 people and stun bubbles that stun lock you for days exist in this game. (Companions are core class abilities!) Edited December 28, 2012 by NamikazeNaruto

[RankorSSGS]

VG tanks do more damage than Shadow tanks and have more stand-up survivability. If any changes were to be made to the Shadow tanking tree regarding less damage, then it will need some high powered survivability buffs.

 

VG tanks are another useless pvp class right now, but that's another topic. But going survivability over damage is a route I'd be good with.

 

The issue with Infil is its core concept. That aspect would need to be changed IF you want to see it in large scale combat such as ranked. Balance is disgustingly squishy and mediocre in its overall pay off. That's the tree that needs the most love right now.

 

I like Infil's lone wolf style as it is, it just sucks that it's a role not needed in ranked. And like I said, not familiar with Balance enough to know what suitable buffs would be.

 

CS has to be one of the most useless abilities in the game. It indeed needs love, but I doubt it'd happen anytime soon.

 

Agreed.

 

This would make infil's burst stupendous and overboard. It will be overpowered yet the need for infil will STILL be little to none, and the tank tree will take a hit, reducing our viability further.

 

Forgot to mention remove the effects of Potency from PA. I do not see how the burst would be overboard, just more reliable and less reliant on Potency. And I did state that the tank tree would need a suitable replacement.

 

Responses in yellow.

[Xinika]

Responses in yellow.

Nothing to add there.

[Smashbrother]

This is your perspective and has nothing to do with what I said. You're the one that inserted your illogical unrelated query. Again, speak for yourself and answer your own illogic.

 

No. You called my opinions on shadow's power invalid because I don't have one at 50. Using your logic, nobody is allowed to comment on a class unless they have it at 50. That is obviously a stupid argument, but I'm not surprised.

 

 

And again! Another made up story. Show me where I am against buffing it. Please, I'm waiting.

 

Read above where you said the only way RWZs would take deception is if they buffed it to the point of game breaking. Since you also said you don't support game breaking buffs, 1+1 = 2.

 

I'm not sure why you can't see deception being buffed w/o being game breaking, but then again my IQ isn't so low.

 

Oh, I was simply using the whole '1v1' logic over the 'stalling' logic. You know, using your logic? And according to your logic, that tanksin is in for a world of surprises when it comes to the 1v1 corner...

 

Are you incapable of 1v1 killing certain classes, and stalling against others? Are you incapable of when to go for the kill and when to simply stall? Is your game IQ so low that you can't tell when you should do which?

 

And like I said, who the **** uses deception/madness hybrids in RWZs?

Edited December 29, 2012 by Smashbrother

[Xinika]

No. You called my opinions on shadow's power invalid because I don't have one at 50. Using your logic, nobody is allowed to comment on a class unless they have it at 50. That is obviously a stupid argument, but I'm not surprised.

Continue battling yourself. I'll just sit back and watch.

 

 

 

 

Read above where you said the only way RWZs would take deception is if they buffed it to the point of game breaking. Since you also said you don't support game breaking buffs, 1+1 = 2.

 

I'm not sure why you can't see deception being buffed w/o being game breaking, but then again my IQ isn't so low.

You're making up and inserting words into my mouth.

 

 

 

Are you incapable of 1v1 killing certain classes, and stalling against others? Are you incapable of when to go for the kill and when to simply stall? Is your game IQ so low that you can't tell when you should do which?

 

And like I said, who the **** uses deception/madness hybrids in RWZs?

...Don't get mad when I use your logic for your argument.

Edited December 29, 2012 by Xinika

[RankorSSGS]

And here I thought we might have actually gone back to something productive. Not on these forums I guess.

[Markisha]

I have no words.

Nice responses Shin but just give up. That guy's a lost cause.

[Sylvatica]

any new videos soon? i'm 35 with my shadow and having a blast in PVP! Now that I think of it, I've been doing PVP the whole time! Think I leveld from 23 to 35 orso thru pvp!! I also did some classquests while waiting for pvp and when doing the classquest 'the Fortitude' where I can enter the 'Rift Alliance' there was a 42K champ! I was like, how am I going to kill that? still being geared with my lvl 20 pvp armor and being lvl 33 i thought I'd never worked..!

But I kited and killed her! Really fun class <3

[Leafy_Bug]

Shadow nerf incoming soon, its peeps like this dude that dictate how classes work. BW will take his feedback and probably make the shadow be useless in all three trees. In addition, metrics will show that derpies don't derp enough due to resilience so they will buff derp spec a bit. They will take resilience from shadows because there are way too many smashes missed because of this. You will have access to resilience on an hourly basis by using cartel coins to get it. We also have too much armour and damage mitigation. They need to take a bit of that too because the 6k smash is not within the magic 'metrix'. Edited December 29, 2012 by Leafy_Bug

[Xinika]

any new videos soon? i'm 35 with my shadow and having a blast in PVP! Now that I think of it, I've been doing PVP the whole time! Think I leveld from 23 to 35 orso thru pvp!! I also did some classquests while waiting for pvp and when doing the classquest 'the Fortitude' where I can enter the 'Rift Alliance' there was a 42K champ! I was like, how am I going to kill that? still being geared with my lvl 20 pvp armor and being lvl 33 i thought I'd never worked..!

But I kited and killed her! Really fun class <3

This weekend I am releasing a major guide video.

Fun fact: I leveled 11-50 in warzones as infil. I did not quest.