The Death of the Class Story - Chapter 4: Rise of the Hutt Cartel

[Alec_Fortescue]

I'd postulate that what you propose seems hopeful, but not likely. If they were going to have different paths for everyone, anyway, why not continue class stories individually?

 

Here, I'll bet 10 million credits it's gonna be like I said. Come Tomb of Freedon Nadd to claim it from Stahl (Imperial) if I am wrong

 

Why not? Because it's still cheaper that way. Same environment, same key characters (quest givers?) and bosses... Maybe just different approach to the final , shared confrontation?

Edited December 12, 2012 by Alec_Fortescue

[Slowpokeking]

Let's wait and see, I love this game because of its story and really dislike too much third faction rather than focus on the war. If they can continue the stories well that's good, otherwise I will give up.

[Slowpokeking]

If they can make new class stories, I believe many people will return to the game and play it.

[MrSchmo]

I've been aware of it for as long as its been out there. The reason I post is now is because this is the moment that I've realized that I've been holding on to a fool's hope for the past year. The direction the game is taking has been made obvious, and it certainly isn't high-quality narrative content that EA perceives as being single-use.

 

I want to believe that more class story is coming. But EA really did ruin the chances of that. It's not even that SW:TOR wasn't a success, financially or otherwise. It was, and is. The problem is that EA set their sights on dethroning WoW -a completely unrealistic goal. When SW:TOR failed to reach that goal, they diverted resources into not making more content, but into making more cash. And we're seeing the consequences of that refocus.

 

They're not encouraging.

 

Great, so you admit this is pure speculation.

 

Moving along.

[CelCawdro]

Great, so you admit this is pure speculation.

 

Moving along.

 

Speculation based on evidence provided. Not pure speculation.

[GrandMike]

I dont think anyone will be surprised given how the first year went, and the lack of class story updates.

A shame really, even if understandable

Wonder how much had to change considering they had a lot of the writing pre done for the story,

 

Ill put my tinfoli hat on and say:

 

They had 8 stories as chapter 4 (for 8 classes) written for forsseable future (probably even further).

Considering how badly game performed they will just adapt it so that each class story can be played by any class, so instead chapter 4 they will stretch it so you will get that same story just as chapter 4-5-6-7 (2 class stories imp-rep/chapter as 1 chapter for all).

 

Same thing as it already happens with other content. So instead full 1.3 you get it streched to 1.4 1.5 1.6 by piecemeal.

Edited December 12, 2012 by GrandMike

[CelCawdro]

Here, I'll bet 10 million credits it's gonna be like I said. Come Tomb of Freedon Nadd to claim it from Stahl (Imperial) if I am wrong

 

Why not? Because it's still cheaper that way. Same environment, same key characters (quest givers?) and bosses... Maybe just different approach to the final , shared confrontation?

 

I'll take that bet. And I hope I lose. It just seems like a lot of effort for minimal payout, particularly if, as Andy loves to reiterate, the developers have years of story and dialogue just waiting to be implemented at the drop of a(n ever-falling) hat.

[Slowpokeking]

I'll take that bet. And I hope I lose. It just seems like a lot of effort for minimal payout, particularly if, as Andy loves to reiterate, the developers have years of story and dialogue just waiting to be implemented at the drop of a(n ever-falling) hat.

 

The story and VA are really the best part of this game, if they can keep update people will still keep hope.

[Altheran]

It would be sad if there wouldn't be more class story, because I'd like to have further "personnal" story, which would be unique for each of my alts (who are of all different classes), but it's not surprising. It wouldn't be so different from Ilum. Edited December 12, 2012 by Altheran

[Vandicus]

Speculation based on evidence provided. Not pure speculation.

 

Devs: Makeb will not have class storylines. Makeb will have class storylines. Makeb sounds like it won't have class storylines.

 

This equals evidence that there will be no more class stories in the future? It'd be an awful waste of recorded dialogue then.

[Quinnt]

There is an absolute axiom in the MMO industry: the level 1-50 game sells boxes, but your endgame gets you subscribers. EA/BW is learning this lesson the hard way.

 

Let's be clear. From level 1-50, this is the best MMO ever created. It is immersive in a way that has never been done before, and with good reason. The amount of time, effort and money spent on it is obvious, and it shines. BW made no secret of the fact that Story was critical to them, as in other BW games. But Story does not get you long-term subscribers in a MMO. Period. Replayability helps, for sure...but it does not make for a sustainable long-term revenue model for an MMO.

 

The endgame was neglected from day one. Ops progression and complexity, as well as gearing is seriously underdeveloped. When you look at WoW, who has by far the most developed endgame, you can just see how much more robust it is. Raids are harder, progression takes time. Guilds aren't clearing new content the day it is released. But most importantly, the gear attained from raids is much more desirable.

 

Gearing is the most critical part of keeping a subscriber. Developers play on human psychological response. People see fancy, cool-looking gear on other players, and they say to themselves, "I want that! I'm going to do whatever it takes to get it!"....and boom, you have yourselves a long-term subscriber. WoW excels at this better than anyone, and it's a big part of the reason they enjoy the success that they do. SWTOR endgame gear is woefully inadequate from this perspective. I know, it sounds trite, but it's no accident that WoW endgame gear looks much better and more distinctive than SWTOR's.

 

I love this game, I really do, and I'm having a blast playing it. But unless they start investing in the development of the endgame, the best they will do is stay afloat as a mid-tier MMO, certainly not what EA/BW wanted when they launched SWTOR.

[CosmicKat]

There is an absolute axiom in the MMO industry: the level 1-50 game sells boxes, but your endgame gets you subscribers. EA/BW is learning this lesson the hard way.

 

Let's be clear. From level 1-50, this is the best MMO ever created. It is immersive in a way that has never been done before, and with good reason. The amount of time, effort and money spent on it is obvious, and it shines. BW made no secret of the fact that Story was critical to them, as in other BW games. But Story does not get you long-term subscribers in a MMO. Period. Replayability helps, for sure...but it does not make for a sustainable long-term revenue model for an MMO.

 

The endgame was neglected from day one. Ops progression and complexity, as well as gearing is seriously underdeveloped. When you look at WoW, who has by far the most developed endgame, you can just see how much more robust it is. Raids are harder, progression takes time. Guilds aren't clearing new content the day it is released. But most importantly, the gear attained from raids is much more desirable.

 

Gearing is the most critical part of keeping a subscriber. Developers play on human psychological response. People see fancy, cool-looking gear on other players, and they say to themselves, "I want that! I'm going to do whatever it takes to get it!"....and boom, you have yourselves a long-term subscriber. WoW excels at this better than anyone, and it's a big part of the reason they enjoy the success that they do. SWTOR endgame gear is woefully inadequate from this perspective. I know, it sounds trite, but it's no accident that WoW endgame gear looks much better and more distinctive than SWTOR's.

 

I love this game, I really do, and I'm having a blast playing it. But unless they start investing in the development of the endgame, the best they will do is stay afloat as a mid-tier MMO, certainly not what EA/BW wanted when they launched SWTOR.

 

Everquest, UO, AC, CoX, etc. would beg to differ. Those games launched with no, or minimal endgame content and made zillions. It is WoW that changed the focus to endgame and almost every MMO to follow that formula is dead and gone.

[papragu]

There is an absolute axiom in the MMO industry: the level 1-50 game sells boxes, but your endgame gets you subscribers. EA/BW is learning this lesson the hard way.

 

Let's be clear. From level 1-50, this is the best MMO ever created. It is immersive in a way that has never been done before, and with good reason. The amount of time, effort and money spent on it is obvious, and it shines. BW made no secret of the fact that Story was critical to them, as in other BW games. But Story does not get you long-term subscribers in a MMO. Period. Replayability helps, for sure...but it does not make for a sustainable long-term revenue model for an MMO.

 

The endgame was neglected from day one. Ops progression and complexity, as well as gearing is seriously underdeveloped. When you look at WoW, who has by far the most developed endgame, you can just see how much more robust it is. Raids are harder, progression takes time. Guilds aren't clearing new content the day it is released. But most importantly, the gear attained from raids is much more desirable.

 

Gearing is the most critical part of keeping a subscriber. Developers play on human psychological response. People see fancy, cool-looking gear on other players, and they say to themselves, "I want that! I'm going to do whatever it takes to get it!"....and boom, you have yourselves a long-term subscriber. WoW excels at this better than anyone, and it's a big part of the reason they enjoy the success that they do. SWTOR endgame gear is woefully inadequate from this perspective. I know, it sounds trite, but it's no accident that WoW endgame gear looks much better and more distinctive than SWTOR's.

 

I love this game, I really do, and I'm having a blast playing it. But unless they start investing in the development of the endgame, the best they will do is stay afloat as a mid-tier MMO, certainly not what EA/BW wanted when they launched SWTOR.

 

I agree with you that endgame content is important but it shouldnt be dumbed down to gear grinding. Cuz then i can just go and play any other MMO out there. tbh i hate gear grinding so i am really happy that swtor isnt that bad in that case. You also have to think about the casual players who have a job and dont have time to spend 6-10 hrs sitting at the PC. Same goes for higher level caps, no need for those things when there is good endgame content.

 

This game needs a bit more sandbox and open world pvp. Look at EvE online there is no endgame its an endless continuity. Also the class story of swtor isnt really that deep. If you look at it, its only 3-4 quests/planet and around 3-4 on different locations. All the other quests on the planet are the same for every class. So if you would be able to do the main story only, you would be done in 6 hrs max. Thats kk for a singleplayer game but this wants to be an MMO.

[jedip_enguin]

Without the individual class stories the whole point of leveling alts in the game just falls apart and it becomes just like any other MMO with a star wars skin (part of the reason I never rolled a single alt in WoW)

 

I realise the class storyline makes up at best 5-10% of the quest material on any given world, but it is where the bulk of the flavour and impetus of your journey as that character comes from and without it I just don't think the experience in chapter 4 will come close to feeling of the previous 3 chapters.

 

I hope I'm wrong, I really really do, but getting rid of the individual story lines, the one thing this game got absolutely, positively 100% right just strikes me as the wrong move.

[Heezdedjim]

It's clear the future of the game is a constant cycle of 30-day churn, until they have bilked everyone who hasn't yet played the game for thirty days, gotten sick of it, and left. The game has something to it the first time through on the first toon. It's even got a little something the first time through on the second toon of the other faction, since the planets are a bit different. After that, it's just a big collossal bore all the way around, and their clear aim now is to not even try to do anything to build the game out unless it involves bilking people through the cash shop.

 

Even if you think "raiding" or PvP is fun, there is nothing left to motivate you to raid or PvP other than gearing up . . . so you can raid and PvP . . . on the same raids, and the same maps, over and over and over. Since they proved they have no ability to turn out new story content, the game basically ends where it started at launch, and the "signature" feature of it is the one thing they've proven they have zero ability to build on.

 

If they can't compete on "story," then they're left with nothing but the IP, which they've made every effort they could to butcher in every possible way. Having Star Wars on the box got them a huge launch pop, but once that wore off . . . well, we all know what happened then. Now they're stuck competing with games that do everything this game can do better, and some things it doesn't do at all (like pretend to be more than just a vehicle for a shockingly lousy cash shop).

 

If you want a game with combat that doesn't feel like swimming through bricks, play GW2. If you want a game with a real economy, play EVE. If you want a game that actually delivers on "story" and keeps it coming on a regular basis, try TSW. If you just want to raid and grind gear, there are plenty of games that will give you that fix without the weekly gamebreaking bugs and with population stats that aren't circling the bowl (and which will let you grind for gear that is actually pretty enough to justify the effort).

 

If you want to spend thirty days flying around on a lawnmower with christmas lights and saying to yourself, "Wow. I can't believe it's Star Wars," then this is the game for you.

Edited December 12, 2012 by Heezdedjim

[Slowpokeking]

There is an absolute axiom in the MMO industry: the level 1-50 game sells boxes, but your endgame gets you subscribers. EA/BW is learning this lesson the hard way.

 

Let's be clear. From level 1-50, this is the best MMO ever created. It is immersive in a way that has never been done before, and with good reason. The amount of time, effort and money spent on it is obvious, and it shines. BW made no secret of the fact that Story was critical to them, as in other BW games. But Story does not get you long-term subscribers in a MMO. Period. Replayability helps, for sure...but it does not make for a sustainable long-term revenue model for an MMO.

 

The endgame was neglected from day one. Ops progression and complexity, as well as gearing is seriously underdeveloped. When you look at WoW, who has by far the most developed endgame, you can just see how much more robust it is. Raids are harder, progression takes time. Guilds aren't clearing new content the day it is released. But most importantly, the gear attained from raids is much more desirable.

 

Gearing is the most critical part of keeping a subscriber. Developers play on human psychological response. People see fancy, cool-looking gear on other players, and they say to themselves, "I want that! I'm going to do whatever it takes to get it!"....and boom, you have yourselves a long-term subscriber. WoW excels at this better than anyone, and it's a big part of the reason they enjoy the success that they do. SWTOR endgame gear is woefully inadequate from this perspective. I know, it sounds trite, but it's no accident that WoW endgame gear looks much better and more distinctive than SWTOR's.

 

I love this game, I really do, and I'm having a blast playing it. But unless they start investing in the development of the endgame, the best they will do is stay afloat as a mid-tier MMO, certainly not what EA/BW wanted when they launched SWTOR.

 

Well if end game is all about build up gears through ops, why would people choose SWTOR rather than WOW? It needs its own stuff.

[Karkais]

Because this game hasn't been ask successful as they had hoped, maybe not.

 

No game can EVER be as succesful as EA wants.

[CelCawdro]

No game can EVER be as succesful as EA wants.

 

Very true. And as the past six+ months have shown, their desire to chase their impossible goals have done nothing but compromise the longevity of the game.

[Slowpokeking]

To be fair the FP/OPS are not badly done, while not as good as WOW and some other games. But the story and VA are the best part of the game and it would be stupid to take them out.

[Heezdedjim]

Gearing is the most critical part of keeping a subscriber. Developers play on human psychological response. People see fancy, cool-looking gear on other players, and they say to themselves, "I want that! I'm going to do whatever it takes to get it!"....and boom, you have yourselves a long-term subscriber. WoW excels at this better than anyone, and it's a big part of the reason they enjoy the success that they do. SWTOR endgame gear is woefully inadequate from this perspective. I know, it sounds trite, but it's no accident that WoW endgame gear looks much better and more distinctive than SWTOR's

I agree, which makes it all the more hilarious that every "endgame" set they've turned out is ugly as sin. It is amazing just how horrible a job their art department has done at making things that look like they belong in this universe and that you actually would want to wear. And it's compounded by the fact that they haven't bothered to make any new textures or models for an entire year, and are stuck churning out one repaint after another of the same old tired crap people have been saying they hate since the start.

[CelCawdro]

To be fair the FP/OPS are not badly done, while not as good as WOW and some other games. But the story and VA are the best part of the game and it would be stupid to take them out.

 

They're adequate filler, but undeserving of being the main focus of the game. I have nothing wrong with these repetitive elements being present as long as the unique draws of this game are improved and expanded.

[Nemmar]

As seen here. Yes, it's datamined. No, it isn't completely concrete. But it's a good indication of the direction of the game. And it is being indicated that class stories are done for - there will be continuation, but nothing more in-depth than the generalized story you can find in WoW or any other MMO out there.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if this is the item that unlocks Makeb.

 

And yes, this is speculation. But given answers like this... ...it isn't baseless.

 

I am 100% sure that there will be more class story if a full-fledged expansion comes out. The story is already written and it really isnt crazy expensive to do those. They can just cut the voice acting for the menial quests and be done with it.

 

I think most of all you are jumping to conclusions. If there is no class stories in Makeb it does not mean they were completely abondoned.

[Slowpokeking]

They're adequate filler, but undeserving of being the main focus of the game. I have nothing wrong with these repetitive elements being present as long as the unique draws of this game are improved and expanded.

 

Yes, and many people I've met unsubbed but said they would come back if Bioware gives out new class story.

[CelCawdro]

Yes, and many people I've met unsubbed but said they would come back if Bioware gives out new class story.

 

I could ring off at least a dozen guildmates that hit 50 and quit. In my circle at least, the gear treadmill is something we've all done. We're past that. Once the unique aspect of SW:TOR was consumed, they had no reason to continue playing as they've already experienced the rest of what the game is offering.

 

I can speak for a few of them, as well as myself - a lot of us would have glady participated in the various gear treadmills as long as it was simply a way to enjoy the game in the interim between updates to the unique aspects of SW:TOR.

[Heezdedjim]

If there is no class stories in Makeb it does not mean they were completely abondoned.

No, but the fact they haven't managed to produce one frame of story in the last year since launch does. They're competing with games that are turning out story episodes monthly now; and it's clear at this point that they're not even trying to compete.

 

And what have they done in that time? Refactored and reworked and refined the code base and worked out lag and bugs? No. Smoothed up combat and balanced PvP? No. Fixed crafting? No. Introduced sandbox features? No. Made loads and loads of beautiful new gear for people to lust after? No.

 

They took six months to make a group finder, which the game should have had at launch; spent six months nuking 90% of the servers they started out with to deal with the nosedive in population (while still not giving us voluntary transfers); and spent the rest of the time on one PvP map and getting the cash shop up and running.

 

Mission accomplished.

Edited December 12, 2012 by Heezdedjim