Briggs_Knightly Posted December 12, 2012 Author Share Posted December 12, 2012 Ops bottom of the DPS in pvp? dude, they're the one that can bring you from 100% HP to 0 without you having a single chance to hit them... As can a Marauder or Jugg because they have like 6 int/root/stun/kb. The difference is that the melee classes can fuction fully out of stealth and has a ton more utitlity. Besides... everyone and their brother have a way to pop people out of stealth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Briggs_Knightly Posted December 13, 2012 Author Share Posted December 13, 2012 If I were to rank classes going by people I would consider "elite" DPS on my server. People who play a lot and are min maxed etc and most importantly I have a huge amount of games played with them while staring at the damn scoreboard at the end. So basicallly with the class played to their fullest or damn close to it. It would go like this I'll go by imp classes 1. PT - Very rare to see a great power tech out DPSd unless there are big fights where AOE is king. Number 2 or 3 may win occasionally but the Powertech is usually king of the charts. 2. Mara - Sure juggs could take this spot in a PUG. But when other people are ccing for you the Mara really shines. Seen more million dmg games by this class than any other. All specs if played in the right comp are viable and the class is just overall a powerhouse 3. Jug - (Rage only) Very annoying when grouped but in small skirmishes nothing to worrisome. Avoid the ravage and you'll be fine. 4. Sin - The class has great deeps and control over their target but has a hard time sustaining themselves in fights and rarely rack up huge numbers. Definitely seen some really impressive games tho. Nothing to be laughed at in the hands of some one skillful 5. Sniper - Once in a blue moon you will see a sniper that regularly hits well over 500k in an active match. They bring a lot of utility to a team, but for DPS they just don't compete over the length of the match. Their kit makes them a must have, but not top of the charts deeps. 6. Sorc - The only reason they beat out the merc is our spammable dots. Hard to beat good sorc if hes just trying to pad numbers. But sometimes the huge lack of burst will get to them and won't have any time to wrack up the deeps 7. Merc - Seen a few excellent merc/commando healers seen even less DPS. Blahhhhh, glad they got an int but damn 8. Never seen an Op break 600k. From a sustained DPS standpoint they are at the bottom I'm pretty sure Obviously this is all opinion, accidently posted before i was done so here is mah edit Good post... Honest and a good reason for your rankings for each. Most people have the Sorc, Op and Merc in the bottom 3. These are the off-heal specs and have limited CC. I call for EA/BW to either give those 3 classes MORE CC or give them some kind of CC immunities. They have to be helped in some way and every rational person knows it. I believe the damage output is fine and that is why the idiots who monitor metrics claim there is balance. Having played 2 of those 3 up to level 50 and a combined valor of like 170, I KNOW the imbalance come from CC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Washingtoon Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 I wouldnt place sorc that low and I think it's an exaggeration to say that most sorc damage comes from pointless dots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diplomaticus Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 (edited) I wouldnt place sorc that low and I think it's an exaggeration to say that most sorc damage comes from pointless dots. It's not entirely untrue. Let's compare a Madness Sorc with a Madnassin for a moment. The Sorc has 1 true burst skill (Death Field) and one "Heay Pressure" skill (Crushing Darkness). The Sin has 3 burst skills (Death Field, Assassinate and Maul), as well as a better Crushing Darkness imo (less range and less damage, but free and double recharge). Furthermore, the sin's filler move (Thrash => +50% crit damage and +24% crit chance most of the time) is more lethal than the Sorc's (Force Lightning). Sorcs have things going for them, like very mobile, long range damage potential, as well as probably the easiest target tabbing skills, but they don't achieve high levels of lethality. Even the Lightning tree isn't burstier than a lot of other classes' dps specs. For the record, I play a Madnassin, and a Telekinetics Sage (which I'm not going to play anymore, as it's one of my least favourite characters, UP or not). Edited December 14, 2012 by Diplomaticus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Briggs_Knightly Posted December 23, 2012 Author Share Posted December 23, 2012 (edited) Does anyone else seem to noticed classes being buffed/nerfed shortly after a big patch??? It seems like my Op is slightly better now than right after 1.6 came out. It could be that the lag is better because it seems like lag affects my Op worse than my other toons. And when did the Sages start dealin crazy damage? It seems like just this weekend they started doin more damage than before. I think EA/BW is getting worse at this balance thing with every patch. Edited December 23, 2012 by Briggs_Knightly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Briggs_Knightly Posted December 23, 2012 Author Share Posted December 23, 2012 (edited) 99 Marauder / Sentinel *Even a bad player can be pretty effective in this class 87 Assassin / Shadow *Good utility +stealth +damage. Can be top contributor in skilled hands 85 Powertech / Vanguard *Spamable I-WIN button and loads of utility 75 Juggernaut / Guardian *Faily easy to play, loads of CC, can even be top damage with skilled player 72 Sniper / Gunslinger *A little limited but is incredible sometimes. Can dominate in packs. 50 Sorcerer / Sage *Low damage but good CC and utility. A good player can leverage abilities. 35 Operative / Scoundrel *Bursty but too easy to counter now. Only a few left who can do well. 33 Mercenary / Commando *Good damage but no burst, limited CC and no utility. I had to move Assins/Shadow up some. So many of the good Ops are now great Assins. Even I am rollin one so you know they are better than Ops. I also gave Sorcs/Sages a higher mark though they are still slotted in the same place. They just seem to be doin quite a bit more damage lately. Don't know why... EA/BW is a funny group like that. Edited December 23, 2012 by Briggs_Knightly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdmiralOnasi Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Scoundrels and Ops are still terrible at DPS. Most everyone that tried to play the class has either gone heals or rolled a Shadow/Sin out of frustration. My Scoundrel was my guy from early access, and I still play him, but good Lord is he outmatched by the glowbat classes. From a DPS and team utility standpoint, there is no reason to play a Sco/Op over a Shadow/Sin. None. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Briggs_Knightly Posted December 29, 2012 Author Share Posted December 29, 2012 99 Marauder / Sentinel *Even a bad player can be pretty effective in this class 87 Assassin / Shadow *Good utility +stealth +damage. Can be top contributor in skilled hands 85 Powertech / Vanguard *Spamable I-WIN button and loads of utility 75 Juggernaut / Guardian *Faily easy to play, loads of CC, can even be top damage with skilled player 72 Sniper / Gunslinger *A little limited but is incredible sometimes. Can dominate in packs. 50 Sorcerer / Sage *Low damage but good CC and utility. A good player can leverage abilities. 33 Mercenary / Commando *Good damage but no burst, limited CC and no utility. 30 Operative / Scoundrel *Nerfed to useless and too easy to counter now. Only a few left who can do OK. I had to move Ops down as they are now almost completely useless. Cloaking Screen is no longer useful as everyone and their sister have an ability to pop them out of stealth. The Marauder vanish is even better than CS now because it actually functions to remove you from combat and from the enemies target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dedzepln Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 ...I had a good time reading 4 pages of players who don't how to play Sorc/sage. Keep it coming guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwkingms Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 from my findings in pvp if left alone a sniper/slinger can do the most burst.. maybe a mara would out dps them long run since they dont worry about conserving recourses but on my sorc if i cant los a sniper im dead in about 5 seconds at best which brings me to my next point why do warriors and snipers need an execute ability? why do the hardest hitting classes need a huge finisher? in theory wouldnt the weaker hitting classes need a finisher? does a 7k smash really need a 5k vicious throw after? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoTomorrow Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 why do warriors and snipers need an execute ability? why do the hardest hitting classes need a huge finisher? in theory wouldnt the weaker hitting classes need a finisher? does a 7k smash really need a 5k vicious throw after? Pure dps classes without an execution ability are pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edonidd Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 from my findings in pvp if left alone a sniper/slinger can do the most burst.. maybe a mara would out dps them long run since they dont worry about conserving recourses but on my sorc if i cant los a sniper im dead in about 5 seconds at best which brings me to my next point why do warriors and snipers need an execute ability? why do the hardest hitting classes need a huge finisher? in theory wouldnt the weaker hitting classes need a finisher? does a 7k smash really need a 5k vicious throw after? None of their design team had any sense, understood game theory, risk vs reward, or why classes get stuff. Why do melee classes get gap closers? Because it wouldn't be fair if they couldn't close to melee range. Why do they get to do more damage than ranged? To make things even since they should take some damage while getting into melee range. So why is their gap closer available at maximum range and instant cast? Why do they have CC at all? Why do the gap closers work at a full 30 yards, but ranged classes knockback only knocks people back 5 yards? Why do melee classes all have abilities that hit beyond melee range? Why do all classes have to have a 3 second channeled ability, but everyone else gets theirs on a CD as a once in a while ability, but Sorcs/Sages have to use theirs as the main source of their damage? If its the main source of their damage, why is their channeled ability so much weaker than everyone else's? If It's so much weaker than Ravage and Series of Shots, why is it interruptable and theirs isn't? Why does the single class with the least armor and least defensive cooldowns have the lowest burst of every class? Why are DOT's purgable, and spread over a longer amount of time than most fights last, but don't do any more damage than instant abilities by every other class? Why are all melee abilities instant cast and the majority of ranged classes abilities are cast times or channeled? The designers just saw the toolkits of other classes in other games and kind of randomly assigned those abilities to classes without factoring anything else about the game or the classes. Basically they were at the very worst severely mentally handicapped, and at best completely ignorant and devoid of common sense and basic game design principles. I still have fun playing the game, they did a pretty good job with parts of it, even most of the parts individually. Then they just shoehorned everything together horribly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwkingms Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 Pure dps classes without an execution ability are pointless. or pure dps classes without executes are.. well pure dps still executes have no place in the arsenal of assassinns snipers and warriors right now... these classes do enough dmg.. should we give powertechs an execute next? 5k TD 5k rail shot 5k execute? doesn't make sense does it snipers are arguably the burstiest class in the game.... their execute is not needed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwkingms Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 Pure dps classes without an execution ability are pointless. so sit back with ur ridiculous burst and immunity to charge interrupts and grapple and ur 30 seconds every minute of immunity to EVERYTHING... and tell me u need an execute snipers/slingers are the noob tubers of swtor... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Briggs_Knightly Posted December 29, 2012 Author Share Posted December 29, 2012 These designers must be evil people... How many of your lives are better now for having played this game??? They purposely try and maintain unbalaced designs so that you maintain hope. They will never fix this ****, they want you to feal like change will be coming soon. The only change will be to make todays champs tomorrows chumps and you silly people will eat it up. I just wish that I had spent the thousands of hours on a different game... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cashogy Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 None of their design team had any sense, understood game theory, risk vs reward, or why classes get stuff. Why do melee classes get gap closers? Because it wouldn't be fair if they couldn't close to melee range. Why do they get to do more damage than ranged? To make things even since they should take some damage while getting into melee range. So why is their gap closer available at maximum range and instant cast? Why do they have CC at all? Why do the gap closers work at a full 30 yards, but ranged classes knockback only knocks people back 5 yards? Why do melee classes all have abilities that hit beyond melee range? Why do all classes have to have a 3 second channeled ability, but everyone else gets theirs on a CD as a once in a while ability, but Sorcs/Sages have to use theirs as the main source of their damage? If its the main source of their damage, why is their channeled ability so much weaker than everyone else's? If It's so much weaker than Ravage and Series of Shots, why is it interruptable and theirs isn't? Why does the single class with the least armor and least defensive cooldowns have the lowest burst of every class? Why are DOT's purgable, and spread over a longer amount of time than most fights last, but don't do any more damage than instant abilities by every other class? Why are all melee abilities instant cast and the majority of ranged classes abilities are cast times or channeled? The designers just saw the toolkits of other classes in other games and kind of randomly assigned those abilities to classes without factoring anything else about the game or the classes. Basically they were at the very worst severely mentally handicapped, and at best completely ignorant and devoid of common sense and basic game design principles. I still have fun playing the game, they did a pretty good job with parts of it, even most of the parts individually. Then they just shoehorned everything together horribly. this is a good post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solarenergy Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 1. Juggernaut/Guardian (Rage/Focus spec only) 2. Powertechs/Vanguards 3. Marauders/Sentinels 4. Snipers/Gunslingers 5. Shadow/Assassin 6. Mercenary/Commando 7. Sorcerers/Sages 8. Operatives/Scoundrels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoTomorrow Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 or pure dps classes without executes are.. well pure dps still executes have no place in the arsenal of assassinns snipers and warriors right now... these classes do enough dmg.. should we give powertechs an execute next? 5k TD 5k rail shot 5k execute? doesn't make sense does it snipers are arguably the burstiest class in the game.... their execute is not needed dude, you lack some basic understanding of the game balance. takedown is what actually allows in this game for healers and their patients to be killed. By the time an a sniper will cast an ambush + FT, an op healer can cast a colto injection + surgical probe completely negating the damage done or even outhealing you must be a heavily biased healer, thus completely invalidating your point. or just play some utility class that doesnt anyone to kill him. FYI, my mains are both a sniper and an ops healer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edonidd Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 dude, you lack some basic understanding of the game balance. takedown is what actually allows in this game for healers and their patients to be killed. By the time an a sniper will cast an ambush + FT, an op healer can cast a colto injection + surgical probe completely negating the damage done or even outhealing you must be a heavily biased healer, thus completely invalidating your point. or just play some utility class that doesnt anyone to kill him. FYI, my mains are both a sniper and an ops healer. So only Snipers, Assasins, and Marauders kill healers or.people being healed? Furthermore, only Snipers, Assassins, and Marauders SHOULD be able to kill healers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoTomorrow Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 so sit back with ur ridiculous burst and immunity to charge interrupts and grapple and ur 30 seconds every minute of immunity to EVERYTHING... and tell me u need an execute snipers/slingers are the noob tubers of swtor... You are obviously butthurt, I pity you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoTomorrow Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 (edited) So only Snipers, Assasins, and Marauders kill healers or.people being healed? Furthermore, only Snipers, Assassins, and Marauders SHOULD be able to kill healers? why only, Pyrotech itself is one big Execution skill tree As long as operatives wll have free surgical probes for anyone with hp in execution range, the existance of execution abilities will always be warranted. As for the sniper haters, you are probably sad that rage spec cannot carry you against every class. Here is my tip, if you suck at melee, switch to assassins. If you are dps sorc and die to snipers, well hello out there, you have no damn right to complain when you have access to a spec that will beat snipers 100% of times if there is a single line of sight obstruction available (which shouldnt be hard to find with your force speed). but no, you just go with the masses and roll some stupid lightning hybrid. You knew the tradeoffs when you went for that build. Edited December 29, 2012 by NoTomorrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lalainnia Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 Juggies and assassin don't need a finisher imo even more so talents that give it a better chance to crit . Snipers need it, los is a snipers worst nightmare and wz's are full of it. also i don't think people notice how sqiushy they actually are lol. Operatives,Mandos, and Sorcs won't get one prob because they can heal and it would be considered *overpowered* if a healer had a finisher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoTomorrow Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 Juggies and assassin don't need a finisher imo even more so talents that give it a better chance to crit . Snipers need it, los is a snipers worst nightmare and wz's are full of it. also i don't think people notice how sqiushy they actually are lol. Operatives,Mandos, and Sorcs won't get one prob because they can heal and it would be considered *overpowered* if a healer had a finisher. ^^ we have a winner here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monterone Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 Personally I'd order them like this: Marauder / Sentinal Powertech / Vanguard Sniper / Gunslinger Assassin / Shadow Juggernaut / Guardian Operative / Scoundrel Sorcerer / Sage Mercenary / Commando Yeah I agree with this order. Unless the mercenaries are pyros, then I'd bump them up a couple steps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngusFTW Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 99 Marauder / Sentinel *Even a bad player can be pretty effective in this class ok.. sure.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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