darthnish Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 from a merc PoV Anyone with at least one active brain cell commando.merc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jherad Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 (edited) Edit - To be quite honest, Shadow and Vanguard aren't exactly OP either, because their high-burst builds are actually fragile; they just both have decent hybrid builds as well, which were both nerfed. It's the simplistic way they both deal damage that gets to people, but ALL classes were designed with a hard-hitter, several smaller hitters and then filler. That's just how the DD's are designed. Tracer Missile, Backblast, Project, Smash, Ravage, Railshot etc. Every tree has a core ability, some are just better than others in practice, if not mathematically. I certainly wouldn't call shadows OP (PTs/VGs still have crazy burst, but their range reduction has moved them out of 'insanely OP' territory). That was just my list of where I think the classes stand in overall rankings - a RWZ team would be crazy not to bring a shadow along, imho. Not so commandos/mercs. I'd hesitate at labeling classes OP, but there are certainly OP abilities/trees. Lolsmash and bubblestun being obvious examples of the hour. Edited December 11, 2012 by Jherad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerain Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Stop QQ'ing about regular warzones and your bad perception on this games pvp because of a random queue system on a team based objective style pvp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jherad Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Stop QQ'ing about regular warzones and your bad perception on this games pvp because of a random queue system on a team based objective style pvp. I'm pretty sure that the entire point of this post mostly concerns RWZs. There are some ACs that are pretty much personae non gratae in ranked, whilst others are required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Briggs_Knightly Posted December 11, 2012 Author Share Posted December 11, 2012 (edited) The 2nd thing I would change (given the chance) is that I would remove some of the Warriors/Knights CC. SERIOUSLY... People say they do too much damage but their greatest strength is CC. They get strong offense and strong defense but it is the root/mezz/stun stuff that kills. At the very least... make that 6 second AOE mezz a pve only option. Or make it 3 sec on strong and pvp groups. Basically.. the tank version should have some CC but the dps versions should have hardly any more CC than the Merc/Commando. Warrior damage > Merc, Warrior defense > Merc, BUT Warrior CC >>> Merc. How can EA claim PVP is balanced when 1 class is obviously so much better??? They must think we are as dumb as they are??? Edited December 11, 2012 by Briggs_Knightly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totaltrash Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 I agree with the top 2 but I don't know why people rank DPS sorcs so low - my madness sorc is the most fun of all my 50's and I can get good numbers with him too (wouldn't want to play him lightning specced tho). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadescythe Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 I agree with the top 2 but I don't know why people rank DPS sorcs so low - my madness sorc is the most fun of all my 50's and I can get good numbers with him too (wouldn't want to play him lightning specced tho). Nothing wrong with enjoying your class and playing it well. Most of your damage, sad to say, is total fluff though. DoTs that do nothing. You don't have the burst to keep up with other classes in a DPS race. So 500k damage is really about 200k of meaningful damage. As long as you are winning and enjoy the class, it's not a problem. I just wouldn't recommend ranked If we are just looking at DPS, here are my rankings: 1) Mara/Sent 2) PT/VG 3) Jugg/Guardian 4) Sniper/GS 5) Sin/Shadow 6) Sorc/Sage 7) Op/Scoundrel 8) Merc/Mando Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totaltrash Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Nothing wrong with enjoying your class and playing it well. Most of your damage, sad to say, is total fluff though. DoTs that do nothing. You don't have the burst to keep up with other classes in a DPS race. So 500k damage is really about 200k of meaningful damage. As long as you are winning and enjoy the class, it's not a problem. I just wouldn't recommend ranked If we are just looking at DPS, here are my rankings: 1) Mara/Sent 2) PT/VG 3) Jugg/Guardian 4) Sniper/GS 5) Sin/Shadow 6) Sorc/Sage 7) Op/Scoundrel 8) Merc/Mando Ok, I see what you mean with respect to pure, useful damage. Of course unlike a DPS merc, a sorc also has a ton of utility which is highly useful when playing for wz objective. I guess I was looking at the whole class, not just the DPS aspect of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerain Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 I'm pretty sure that the entire point of this post mostly concerns RWZs. There are some ACs that are pretty much personae non gratae in ranked, whilst others are required. No no it's not. PT's and Smash specs should be top and this whole thing if really wanted to go over it all needs to include specs too. There's a lot bigger break down to this whole thing than just oh blah blah blah qq that class is doing more damage to me so i'll put it here. Also. Tracer Missile and Pyro Merc should be like bottom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blasphemerr Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Rage - Marauder / Juggernaut Pyrotech - Powertech Engineering - Sniper Carnage - Marauder Deception/Hybrid - Assassin Marksman - Sniper Annihilation - Marauder Lighting/Madness Hybrid - Sorcerer Something like that, some discussion would be required to tweak the list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchangelLBC Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 At least we can all agree that Merc/Commando is absolutely the worst DPS class to ever willingly bring into the PVP arena. Concealment ops might have worse actual DPS but their burst is better and most importantly their team utility is way way WAY better. If you think it isn't then you aren't really aware how total crap Merc/Commando utility is in DPS spec. It is kind of funny that apparently they thought that healing would provide so much utility that the healing classes didn't need more. This is nowhere more obvious than DPS Merc/Commando, but DPS Sorcs and Operatives see it too. Snipers are 5 with no gap. They're the perfect middle between the overpowered top of the list and the underpowered bottom of the list. They actually have clear strengths and weaknesses and can choose between viable trees. Putting them at the bottom is baffling. Edit - To be quite honest, Shadow and Vanguard aren't exactly OP either, because their high-burst builds are actually fragile; they just both have decent hybrid builds as well, which were both nerfed. It's the simplistic way they both deal damage that gets to people, but ALL classes were designed with a hard-hitter, several smaller hitters and then filler. That's just how the DD's are designed. Tracer Missile, Backblast, Project, Smash, Ravage, Railshot etc. Every tree has a core ability, some are just better than others in practice, if not mathematically. This I agree with 100%. I've missed you Daiyukie =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
So-low Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 1. Marauder 2. Jug 3. PT 4. Sniper 5. Assassin 6. Sorc 7. Operative 8. Merc I don't know why so many people have been putting Jugs lower on the list. They have rage too, just like marauders, and they can taunt. Vengeance spec could use a damage buff... something to make it almost on par with Carnage would be nice. Snipers and assassins are pretty equal. They are the 2 most balanced classes in PVP, IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoiks Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Since you included utility I assume this is a total dps/valuable to team dps ranking, and we're not listing by spec so: Mara/Sent Jugg/Guard Sin/Shadow PT/VG Sniper/GS Op/Scoundrel Sorc/Sage Merc/Comm I would put sorc/sages higher than PT/VG just for the cheesebubble, but we're talking dps only and typical teams use a heal hybrid for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mookind Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 (edited) If I were to rank classes going by people I would consider "elite" DPS on my server. People who play a lot and are min maxed etc and most importantly I have a huge amount of games played with them while staring at the damn scoreboard at the end. So basicallly with the class played to their fullest or damn close to it. It would go like this I'll go by imp classes 1. PT - Very rare to see a great power tech out DPSd unless there are big fights where AOE is king. Number 2 or 3 may win occasionally but the Powertech is usually king of the charts. 2. Mara - Sure juggs could take this spot in a PUG. But when other people are ccing for you the Mara really shines. Seen more million dmg games by this class than any other. All specs if played in the right comp are viable and the class is just overall a powerhouse 3. Jug - (Rage only) Very annoying when grouped but in small skirmishes nothing to worrisome. Avoid the ravage and you'll be fine. 4. Sin - The class has great deeps and control over their target but has a hard time sustaining themselves in fights and rarely rack up huge numbers. Definitely seen some really impressive games tho. Nothing to be laughed at in the hands of some one skillful 5. Sniper - Once in a blue moon you will see a sniper that regularly hits well over 500k in an active match. They bring a lot of utility to a team, but for DPS they just don't compete over the length of the match. Their kit makes them a must have, but not top of the charts deeps. 6. Sorc - The only reason they beat out the merc is our spammable dots. Hard to beat good sorc if hes just trying to pad numbers. But sometimes the huge lack of burst will get to them and won't have any time to wrack up the deeps 7. Merc - Seen a few excellent merc/commando healers seen even less DPS. Blahhhhh, glad they got an int but damn 8. Never seen an Op break 600k. From a sustained DPS standpoint they are at the bottom I'm pretty sure Obviously this is all opinion, accidently posted before i was done so here is mah edit Edited December 11, 2012 by Mookind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Briggs_Knightly Posted December 11, 2012 Author Share Posted December 11, 2012 (edited) I guess my BIGGEST complaint for EA/BW is that if this many people can see the problem... How can BW/EA still pretend that all is in balance??? What drug do they do in their meetings??? They absolutely have to give something to the 3 off-heal dps group or they need to turn this over to someone else and find a new job. Edited December 11, 2012 by Briggs_Knightly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digimanbyte_ID Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 This would have to be broken down into trees to even be taken seriously and even then it creates another problem... a madness sorc for example can easily top the DPS charts. However this does NOT mean that madness is the best DPS in game. Even if you did break it down into trees... you still run into the same problem. It really proves nothing. Lots of DPS does NOT always mean viable and that the class is well rounded. No matter what your point is in this "ranking"... I don't think something as simple as ranking classes from 1-8 will come close to getting your point across. EDIT: Unless you mean ranking them as what would I rather have on my team and not just who is putting out the most DPS.... then I'm wrong. Assuming that.... well here's how I see it. 1. PT 2. Marauder 3. Sniper 4. Juggernaut 5. Assassin 6. Sorc 7. Operative 8. Merc Operatives 7, thats a joke right? Basically the last spot is a tie between sorcerer and mercs. They can't DPS and pigeon holed into healing or hybrids for sorcerers to even survive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mookind Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 In sustained dmg? leader boards say it all when you exit a match Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mookind Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 inflate? Do you know what DPS is? As a healer I often have the highest kills in teh match, no one is talking about kills Ops are at the BOTTOM for DPS, period lol Melee with no gap close, nuf said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchangelLBC Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 inflate? Do you know what DPS is? As a healer I often have the highest kills in teh match, no one is talking about kills Ops are at the BOTTOM for DPS, period lol Melee with no gap close, nuf said And yet still a good one is able to turn the tables in a close warzone. There has never been a time when a merc/commando DPS wouldn't have been better served by being on another class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mookind Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 (edited) Last time i checked holding a node had nothing to do with DPS But i agree And i'd rather have a sin holding that node Edited December 11, 2012 by Mookind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totaltrash Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 (edited) I guess my BIGGEST complaint for EA/BW is that if this many people can see the problem... How can BW/EA still pretend that all is in balance??? What drug do they do in their meetings??? They absolutely have to give something to the 3 off-heal dps group or they need to turn this over to someone else and find a new job. Very simple answer: THEY DON'T PLAY THEIR OWN GAME - THAT'S WHY! Trying to balance classes by metrics (essentially our glorious post-match scoreboards) alone ain't gonna cut it. Edited December 11, 2012 by Totaltrash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mookind Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 If you want to talk about "DPS" and their role in the "damage" part of that Scoreboards do most certainly matter You should have asked for a list of classes you would like to for a ranked. Then *****ed about the ones that weren't on the list. That would probably be more palatable to people who have you know. Played a game where toons have varying kits. Because anyone who thinks its going to be "balanced" is *********** nuts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchangelLBC Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Last time i checked holding a node had nothing to do with DPS But i agree And i'd rather have a sin holding that node Also solo taking a node. And that IS about DPS. And yes I'd rather have a sin holding the node and send a sin AND an operative to go take it, but I'd take either over a commando/merc, and I am one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Briggs_Knightly Posted December 11, 2012 Author Share Posted December 11, 2012 Does anyone have any advice about hoe to get EA/BW to listin to us? Does /sign a thread matter??? How about starting a call in campain??? Any other ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoomazir Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 inflate? Do you know what DPS is? As a healer I often have the highest kills in teh match, no one is talking about kills Ops are at the BOTTOM for DPS, period lol Melee with no gap close, nuf said Ops bottom of the DPS in pvp? dude, they're the one that can bring you from 100% HP to 0 without you having a single chance to hit them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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