Relics for neutral players?

[Urael]

Get use to it. They're amazingly good at planning out future updates and features...it's the here and now they seem to falter at.

 

Unless they concentrate on the here and now there won't be a future. If they know this, their answers and actions do not seem to show it.

Edited December 5, 2012 by Urael

[LegendaryBlade]

So you chose to be evil half the time, and good the other half? That doesn't make you neutral, as you still perform evil deeds among good deeds. It just makes you chaotic.

 

Haven't you made this same exact post before? Either way it's factually incorrect.

 

Just because I don't want to shoot a bunch of innocent engineers out an airlock doesn't mean I wont put a bullet in an insane doctor who is kidnapping and torturing people. Promising a woman I will retrieve her long lost family heirloom doesn't mean I don't have the fortitude to launch missiles at the enemy fleet instead of a moon for no reason.

 

Just because I wont condemn an entire convoy of civilians to death doesn't mean I wont destroy a camp of force sensitive rakghouls just because they might be sentient (even though they clearly aren't). Just because I decided to trust the Jedi over a Sith woman trying to seduce me doesn't mean I wont help a Senator who is trying to turn his life around hide his criminal past.

 

You see how many of these things have nothing to do with each other?

 

A neutral character is most likely one that chooses the practical options a lot. Neutral artifacts need to be introduced because it makes sense for characters to be neutral.

Edited December 5, 2012 by LegendaryBlade

[ConradLionhart]

What happened to the gear that had these requirements?

 

Radiance Lightsaber

*Must not be dark side.

 

Evil blood-covered Lightsaber

*Must not be light side.

 

Rather than make neutral gear that only neutral people can use, neutral players can use both of the above gear.

[Mazikeen]

Neutral gear will remain low on their to-do list since most of the level 50 gear, and pretty much all the good gear, is neutral anyway.

[FooBard]

Make your own relics.... They are FREE.

 

Hunt matrix shards... Just one of those = TWO of the alignments relics.

 

Just saying.

 

source

 

Level 15 cubes

■Blue Yellow Green = 14 Endurance, 11 Strength (M2-W0)

■Red Yellow Green = 8 Endurance, 18 Willpower (M2-W1)

■Red Blue Green = 15 Aim, 10 Endurance (M2-W2)

■Red, Blue, Yellow = 18 Strength, 8 Endurance (M2-W3)

 

Level 24 cubes

■Red Yellow Yellow = 19 Strength, 24 Endurance (M3-O1)

■Blue Yellow Yellow = 19 Aim, 24 Endurance

■Green Yellow Yellow = 14 Endurance, 28 Cunning (M3-L1)

■Red Blue Blue = 24 Endurance, 19 Willpower (M3-V2)

■Yellow Blue Blue = 24 Endurance, 19 Strength (M3-J2)

■Green Blue Blue = 28 Aim, 14 Endurance (M3-A2)

 

Level 32 cubes

■Yellow Red Red = 29 Strength, 33 Endurance

■Blue Red Red = 33 Endurance, 29 Willpower (M4-V1)

■Green Red Red = 39 Aim, 23 Endurance (M4-B2)

■Red Green Green = 23 Endurance, 39 Cunning (M4-B1)

■Yellow Green Green = 29 Strength, 33 Endurance (M4-L0)

■Blue Green Green = 29 Aim, 33 Endurance (M4-A1)

 

Note: I hope this is a bug, but Yellow Red Red and Yellow Green Green Matrix cubes have the same stats.

Level 50 cubes Force Users:

■Yellow Yellow Yellow = 52 Strength, 60 Endurance, 18 Defense (M7-Y3)

■Green Green Green = 58 Strength, 50 Endurance, 24 Crit (M7-G3)

■Red Red Red = 66 Willpower, 56 Endurance, 27 Crit (M7-R3)

■Blue Blue Blue = 58 Aim, 50 Endurance, 24 Crit

 

Level 50 cubes Tech Users

■Yellow Yellow Yellow = 52 Aim, 60 Endurance, 18 Defense (M7-Y3)

■Green Green Green = 58 Strength, 50 Endurance, 28 Crit (M7-G0).

■Red Red Red = 54 Endurance, 80 Cunning, 8 Critical Rating (M7-R3)

■Blue Blue Blue = 58 Aim, 50 Endurance, 24 Crit (M7-B3)

Edited December 5, 2012 by FooBard

[Calsetes]

What happened to the gear that had these requirements?

 

Radiance Lightsaber

*Must not be dark side.

 

Evil blood-covered Lightsaber

*Must not be light side.

 

Rather than make neutral gear that only neutral people can use, neutral players can use both of the above gear.

 

Most of that stuff isn't "must not be" and is actually "requires" - and that's just for the stuff that still even has requirements. Most of that was ripped out already, I think, since they were just color crystals causing the alignment restriction. Now that crystals have no restrictions on them, those sabers don't (or shouldn't.)

 

Honestly, the two biggest things about having a gray character are Relic usage pre-50, and some of the moddable gear from the Light / Dark vendors. It's easier to get a pair of moddable gloves for 1.5k from the Light / Dark vendors at level 9 than it is getting your first pair around level 25 or so, or buying a pair off the cartel Shop for real cash or the GTN for possibly way more than that.

 

Being a gray character is something I don't think isn't feasible - hell, I've done it and I'm almost done with the JK story and have yet to stray into Light or Dark 1 territory - it's just a lot harder to do. Relics give you endurance, and that's something every class could use more of. Moddable gear earlier on means gear that you can easily keep up-to-date.

[bahdasz]

Also... I really don't understand why the war cry of every "neutral" player is always "I want relics"... I have 3 level dark V or light V 50's and I don't use the force aligned relics on any of them. You get more bang for the buck with the high-end PVP or PVE relics than you do with the force aligned relics in my opinion.

[bahdasz]

What happened to the gear that had these requirements?

 

Radiance Lightsaber

*Must not be dark side.

 

Evil blood-covered Lightsaber

*Must not be light side.

 

Rather than make neutral gear that only neutral people can use, neutral players can use both of the above gear.

 

You do realize there are about 6000 other lightsabers in this stupid game, right? And you know what, the aligned ones are absolutely no better than any of the other ones.

 

Crying to hear yourself cry, like I said before. Fact is you think you should be given anything you want without having to earn because that's how it's always been for you... well, guess what? Reality check.

[DawnAskham]

Wow another big fail.

 

It must be monumentally difficult to remove the requirement / check for 'requires alignment X' from the relics.

 

Just like it must be monumentally difficult to change things like Rakata belts and bracers and a host of marginally useful crafted items from the first tier from BOP to BOE, or to add RE schematics for 23 / 24/ 25 mods and such.

 

Face it, it isn't ever going to happen. They will only add new things that can be sold in the cash shop, investing time and money to clean up or improve what already exists just isn't in the plans.

[Calsetes]

Also... I really don't understand why the war cry of every "neutral" player is always "I want relics"... I have 3 level dark V or light V 50's and I don't use the force aligned relics on any of them. You get more bang for the buck with the high-end PVP or PVE relics than you do with the force aligned relics in my opinion.

 

I'll make this as clear as I can, since you do raise a good point:

 

FOR LEVELING PURPOSES.

 

Making two custom relics would work, except for this - what planet would one theoretically have to reach in order to have the right shards needed to make two Strength relics? Will these custom relics let someone "use" them to get a quick boost in damage, healing, or defensive ability? What does one do until they have enough to do this? What happens if someone screws up making a relic, like I did when my Sentinel has an Aim relic for no reason other than he took the only shards he had and threw them in the magic cube-maker mu-cheen?

 

I threw on those PvP relics you get when you hit 50 because 1, I had nothing in those slots aside from my Aim relic that does nothing for a Sentinel, and 2, because the stats on one relic were roughly five times the combined total of my one custom relic.

 

Simple question anyone can answer - is it harder or easier to level a neutral character, or an alignment-based one? I think everyone, looking at the numbers and the options available, will easily agree on the same answer there.

[Skodan]

step 1 go to dark side or light side vendor'

step 2 copy said vendor

step 3 paste said vendor

step 4 edit out alignment restrictions on relics

step 5 makes neutral players happy

 

seems simple to me

[monkgryphon]

step 1 go to dark side or light side vendor'

step 2 copy said vendor

step 3 paste said vendor

step 4 edit out alignment restrictions on relics

step 5 makes neutral players happy

 

seems simple to me

 

Then why would you call them light or dark side vendors?

 

What about all the blue grade relics that randomly drop and fill up the GTN?

[Infalliable]

Neutral gear will remain low on their to-do list since most of the level 50 gear, and pretty much all the good gear, is neutral anyway.

 

This is pretty much the reason it hasn't been changed.

 

It only matters for leveling gear, and I think most players don't keep up with relics anyway. I know I rarely upgrade them when leveling. At endgame, every single L50 relic lacks alignment restrictions so it becomes a non-issue.

[monkgryphon]

Haven't you made this same exact post before? Either way it's factually incorrect.

 

Just because I don't want to shoot a bunch of innocent engineers out an airlock doesn't mean I wont put a bullet in an insane doctor who is kidnapping and torturing people. Promising a woman I will retrieve her long lost family heirloom doesn't mean I don't have the fortitude to launch missiles at the enemy fleet instead of a moon for no reason.

 

Just because I wont condemn an entire convoy of civilians to death doesn't mean I wont destroy a camp of force sensitive rakghouls just because they might be sentient (even though they clearly aren't). Just because I decided to trust the Jedi over a Sith woman trying to seduce me doesn't mean I wont help a Senator who is trying to turn his life around hide his criminal past.

 

You see how many of these things have nothing to do with each other?

 

A neutral character is most likely one that chooses the practical options a lot. Neutral artifacts need to be introduced because it makes sense for characters to be neutral.

 

That's just it. There is not always a third choice when it comes to most of the moral choices. Self preservation, righteousness, self-interest, or practicality does not make you neutral. Take the Esseles, there really is no neutral choices available. The only neutral choice I see, would be to just accept whatever comes from other people's decisions even if it means death. But no, we don't have that option. You have to work toward self-preservation, in that quest to keep yourself alive and the rest of the crew alive, you have to make decisions on whether to kill or let certain people live. You're already put in a position where your actions here dictate the morality meter. Instead of jettisoning the engineering, or even doing the good bypass, you should've accepted defeat. There is no 3rd choice.

 

Choosing to be good at one point then choosing to throw out your moral path later on doesn't make you neutral, it just puts you back on the path toward evil morals. There is no middle path, it's either turn right or turn left.

 

The practical choice when 4 people fall onto the subway tracks is to get a few others to help you get them out. However, no one else is around. Ok your choices are limited. So lets do something crazy and really put yourself at risk to do a GOOD thing to try and save them before the train comes. Since no one is around, it's more practical to just leave them and not risk yourself, but that can be viewed as BAD as you chose not to help. No you didn't have a phone, or enough time to contact anyone, and there is no way to stop the train.

 

There is no practical alignment.

Edited December 5, 2012 by monkgryphon

[Skodan]

Then why would you call them light or dark side vendors?

 

What about all the blue grade relics that randomly drop and fill up the GTN?

 

think you misunderstood, i realize it wasnt that clear after re-reading it.

 

you keep the light and dark side vendors, but to add the neutral vendors too they just need to copy/paste one of those vendors and just remove the alignment restrictions on the items they sell

[Zem_]

Choosing to be good at one point then choosing to throw out your moral path later on doesn't make you neutral, it just puts you back on the path toward evil morals. There is no middle path, it's either turn right or turn left.

 

You're assuming the light side choice is always "good" and the dark side choice is always "evil". Sometimes it is not that clear. The padawan love-affair on Tython is a good example...

(minor side-mission spoiler)

If you let them keep their secret and take the reward, it's dark side. But if I remember right you can lie to the master (dark) and then refuse the padawan's bribe (light) and end up neutral for that whole thing. That's not you being "Evil" per se. An idealist or romantic maybe, but also principled enough not to have done so just for the promise of a reward.

 

 

There are also plenty of choices I've run across so far on some new imperial alts that were not so much good vs. evil as "get the job done" vs. "and be pointlessly cruel while doing it" even when the job you were doing was, any way you slice it... kind of evil anyway.

[Zem_]

you keep the light and dark side vendors, but to add the neutral vendors too they just need to copy/paste one of those vendors and just remove the alignment restrictions on the items they sell

 

If they did that, they might as well remove the light/dark versions because there'd be no point in buying them over the non-restricted versions.

 

I don't really see a better way though. Neutral isn't always a balance of light/dark but sometimes choosing the option that awards neither light or dark points. It's not like you can say you're "Neutral rank 3".

[TheSeventhJedi]

Hey everyone; I asked Lead Designer Damion Schubert for an update on neutral gear. He let me know that the implementation of this feature isn't planned for the immediate future, but that it's still something we want to do. When we do add it, you can expect a variety of gear for neutral-aligned players.

 

Soo.... what you're saying is, deal with it?

 

I mean, no offense Allison, I heard this same line a year ago. I heard that a variety of "gray" gear was coming. And now that you say it isn't planned for the immediate future, I can ascertain that it's probably not coming next year either.

 

Geez, no wonder this game bled subs so fast. I mean, I love the game to death - but I have a really hard time defending all the ridiculous and arbitrary choices the development team loves to make.

[Vyron_Deckard]

At this point I just stopped caring, It's never going to happen so there's no point in crying about it. Personally when I level characters I turn the alignment warnings off and chose whatever the hell I want based on the story. The whole light / dark system is narrow minded & archaic, it doesn't fit into MMOs at all.

[Skodan]

If they did that, they might as well remove the light/dark versions because there'd be no point in buying them over the non-restricted versions.

 

I don't really see a better way though. Neutral isn't always a balance of light/dark but sometimes choosing the option that awards neither light or dark points. It's not like you can say you're "Neutral rank 3".

 

then maybe they should make it so that vendor sells only items with alignments between dark 1 and light 1

 

*shrug* its a solution to allowing neutral players to have some relics

[monkgryphon]

You're assuming the light side choice is always "good" and the dark side choice is always "evil". Sometimes it is not that clear. The padawan love-affair on Tython is a good example...

(minor side-mission spoiler)

If you let them keep their secret and take the reward, it's dark side. But if I remember right you can lie to the master (dark) and then refuse the padawan's bribe (light) and end up neutral for that whole thing. That's not you being "Evil" per se. An idealist or romantic maybe, but also principled enough not to have done so just for the promise of a reward.

 

 

There are also plenty of choices I've run across so far on some new imperial alts that were not so much good vs. evil as "get the job done" vs. "and be pointlessly cruel while doing it" even when the job you were doing was, any way you slice it... kind of evil anyway.

 

This has nothing to do with arguing about being neutral, though. This seems to be as if you have a problem with how clear cut some of the choices are not. Not necessarily an issue with not having a neutral option. Therefor some of these choices should be no light gain if you just get the job done, while being pointlessly cruel is clearly evil.

Edited December 6, 2012 by monkgryphon

[LegendaryBlade]

That's just it. There is not always a third choice when it comes to most of the moral choices. Self preservation, righteousness, self-interest, or practicality does not make you neutral. Take the Esseles, there really is no neutral choices available. The only neutral choice I see, would be to just accept whatever comes from other people's decisions even if it means death. But no, we don't have that option. You have to work toward self-preservation, in that quest to keep yourself alive and the rest of the crew alive, you have to make decisions on whether to kill or let certain people live. You're already put in a position where your actions here dictate the morality meter. Instead of jettisoning the engineering, or even doing the good bypass, you should've accepted defeat. There is no 3rd choice.

 

Choosing to be good at one point then choosing to throw out your moral path later on doesn't make you neutral, it just puts you back on the path toward evil morals. There is no middle path, it's either turn right or turn left.

 

The practical choice when 4 people fall onto the subway tracks is to get a few others to help you get them out. However, no one else is around. Ok your choices are limited. So lets do something crazy and really put yourself at risk to do a GOOD thing to try and save them before the train comes. Since no one is around, it's more practical to just leave them and not risk yourself, but that can be viewed as BAD as you chose not to help. No you didn't have a phone, or enough time to contact anyone, and there is no way to stop the train.

 

There is no practical alignment.

 

It's like you didn't read my post at all. Just because there are no directly neutral options in conversation trees doesn't mean it's not possible for a character to be neutral. I listed several examples, and a lot of the time things are wholly unrelated. Choosing to save thousands of lives in one mission, then choosing to kill a psychopath instead of letting his escape in another doesn't make me 'chaotic'.

 

Currently I have about a 5000/1000 split on alignment because my smuggler is a generally good person who's willing to do questionable things to save lives and help the greater good; and occasionally likes to profit on the side. It wouldn't of been a stretch of the imagination to have ended up 2500/2500 if I had made a handful of core choices differently.

 

Take the flashpoints you love so much for example. In the Esseles I chose to save the engineers. In a later mission when I was supposed to disable a missile base, I chose to fire the missiles at the enemy fleet instead of the moon. I chose a light side option in one situation, and a dark side option in another, because those were what I felt were the best choices.

Edited December 6, 2012 by JovethGonzalez

[althene]

Well I am sure this is an old, old debate, but as a new player unaware of the game mechanics my republic character was amassing a lot of dark side points from options that were not inherently "evil".

 

At the risk of adding spoilers, there is an early quest that saw a Rep. military officer send my smuggler on a mission to recover stolen medicine - the medicine was needed to treat sick republicans. Along the way, I discover that a group of refugees could also use the medicine to treat their sick. Once I recover the medicine, I have a choice to take it to the refugees or back to the Fort to help the Republicans, which presumably includes soldiers already putting themselves on the frontline. Unless I missed a crucial piece of information, neither party were obviously more deserving than the other and yet when I decided to return the medicine to its rightful owners (and the Sergeant had asked first ), I got dark side points

 

This is just one example of many that saw my character leave Ord Mantell almost in the neutral zone (I think light edged it by only 100 points) and I defy any player to turn off the light/dark indicator for mission conversations and not come away with more opposing faction attributes than they would otherwise have done. As someone who likes roleplay to dictate character decisions, not a mechanical game feature, I can assure you doing the right thing is not always 'good'.

 

Having said that, I have no stance on the lack of relics for neutral characters (although Matrix cubes aren't alignment specific are they?). If the game was not designed for 3 alignments, I don't particularly have a problem with that - playing neutral 'by design' is as artificial as the dark/light indicator, in my opinion.

 

I think you misunderstood that quest if it's the one I'm thinking of. The quest giver is smuggling spice, an illegal drug. What you actually did was sell crack to orphans.

[LegendaryBlade]

I think you misunderstood that quest if it's the one I'm thinking of. The quest giver is smuggling spice, an illegal drug. What you actually did was sell crack to orphans.

 

No, she had the quest right. I got the same quest, the spice one is later on in Ord Mantell

[ConradLionhart]

You do realize there are about 6000 other lightsabers in this stupid game, right? And you know what, the aligned ones are absolutely no better than any of the other ones.

 

Crying to hear yourself cry, like I said before. Fact is you think you should be given anything you want without having to earn because that's how it's always been for you... well, guess what? Reality check.

 

I'm actually aiming for Light side.