Is the 50 bracket a sick joke??

[L-RANDLE]

breaking CC is situational.

 

I support this message.

 

"About to cap" and "about to die" are situations where using it could make a huge difference, regardless of where your resolve bar is. The base in wait for Full resolve, but be judicious in some cases where it might mean life or death...

[Pvtcarnage]

So, after reading the responses, I went ahead and played 3 warzones. Won one, lost three, but I have to say, my experience improved tenfold. Thank you for the constructive posters.

 

Interestingly, if you don't break the first CC, they (lots of times) just leave you alone. I died a total of 9 times in the 3 warzones. Such a small thing, huge difference. Venting my frustration here had some fruits

 

Lag is a big problem, but I guess that cant be helped. What still is a big problem for me is targeting. Any tricks on that department? Sometimes I tab, sometimes I click on screen. Many of the times either has the desired effect. How do you guys do it?

 

Great to hear man, PvP in this game is really a lot of fun. I learned the most by playing with groups and leeching everything I could through discussion and some dueling in the den with classes I had the most issue with.

 

Their Tab targeting sucks but in the thick of things clicking is not ideal. For mele dps i hot key closest enemy

Edited November 9, 2012 by Pvtcarnage

[L-RANDLE]

Bang on.

So many of the obnoxious posters here winning because they have better stats, better pre mades, more time invested.

 

That's where I stopped....

 

If getting your *** pounded isn't "fun", then you either:

 

A. Do something about it.

B. Quit/QQ/Go back to lowbie

 

A is the choice that most people took who wanted actually be competitive at 50 and to not have any excuse for their performance. B... Do I have to spell out what that means? Rarely do the players that choose B actually have the fortitude to take the beatings, and refuse to look in the mirror at there own shortcomings, and/or make a MINOR commitment to follow the game design that everyone else did.

 

 

Which one do I want in a WZ rolling against a Premade?

 

There are plenty of competitive and uncompetitve matches in 50. So given the same general spead among gear, it does boill down to skill, knowledge, situational awareness, and teamwork/chemistry. The OP proved that he still has some learning to do. Using stats or premades as an excuse, is exactly that, an excuse. Everyone is subject to the same rules....

 

 

Lowbie is a place where brainless zombieism is not punished. It hides the warts of your own gameplay, knowledge of opposing classes and class balance itself. Stats and premades are on the bottom of why 50 is off kilter...

[Monoth]

Let me guess, you think that there so many pugger's that their needs out weigh the needs of the groups?

 

Given hardly any premades participate in Rank Warzones I would have to say "Yes"

 

Most premades don't want to play against other premades, there cowards and want to play against puggers instead because it's an easy win....

 

It's also why these guilds that play in premades QQ everytime someone suggest adding a PUG only option in warzones... They know there Que times will go way up and they wont have a huge advantage anymore...

 

If Bioware wants to save PVP they need to add a PUG only option and make the premades go play against other premades..

[Pvtcarnage]

Given hardly any premades participate in Rank Warzones I would have to say "Yes"

 

Most premades don't want to play against other premades, there cowards and want to play against puggers instead because it's an easy win....

 

It's also why these guilds that play in premades QQ everytime someone suggest adding a PUG only option in warzones... They know there Que times will go way up and they wont have a huge advantage anymore...

 

If Bioware wants to save PVP they need to add a PUG only option and make the premades go play against other premades..

 

So if there are so many pugging how is it the criers are saying that's(premade) all they go up against? can't have both ways....

Edited November 9, 2012 by Pvtcarnage

[Monoth]

So if there are so many pugging how is it the criers are saying that's(premade) all they go up against? can't have both ways....

 

If that's the case then whats wrong with putting in a PUG only option? shouldn't affect the premades at all.....

 

Here's a good example on a PvE RP server, you have a few guilds on the Empire side that are PvP only guilds, they usually have 2-3 premade teams that log in around the same time and they pvp for several hours non stop.... Now as a pugger on the republic side your going to run into these premades about 70% of the time given the lack of people who now participate in warzones.... I know a lot of people who will just stop playing warzones for the night when they start seeing these specific giulds show up in the warzones, so that decreases the pool of people playing even more making it even more likely your going to get pitted against these premades..

 

Easy fix: PUG only option for queing.....

Edited November 9, 2012 by Monoth

[Giberelina]

gotta work for your gears man. There is always going to be an entry barrier to any end game content that you have to overcome

 

That's why it helps to plan ahead and save up comms while you're still in the 49 bracket.

 

Go grind some dailys and

1: start augmenting all your bm gear

2: buy exotech stims of your stat

3: buy seismic grenades

4: buy warzone medpacks

6. get all relevant datacrons

 

it takes some work but once you're in nearly all battlemasters (which doesn't take that long), you can be pretty competitive

 

7. Get a life?

 

Sadly what you say is true (and helpful), but it sucks if you just want to have fun a couple of hours after a work day.

Edited November 9, 2012 by Giberelina

[Doomsdaycomes]

If that's the case then whats wrong with putting in a PUG only option? shouldn't affect the premades at all.....

 

Here's a good example on a PvE RP server, you have a few guilds on the Empire side that are PvP only guilds, they usually have 2-3 premade teams that log in around the same time and they pvp for several hours non stop.... Now as a pugger on the republic side your going to run into these premades about 70% of the time given the lack of people who now participate in warzones.... I know a lot of people who will just stop playing warzones for the night when they start seeing these specific giulds show up in the warzones, so that decreases the pool of people playing even more making it even more likely your going to get pitted against these premades..

 

Easy fix: PUG only option for queing.....

 

 

Amazing, and the tone of this thread was going so well.

 

OP, don't listen to these people. ^_^ you got the right attitude to join the big boy/girl party, now you just need to take a little breather and develop your knowledge, skills, and toon.

 

As for the targetting issue, I don't worry a whole bunch about it. Generally I'm not in a pack so tab targetting doesn't take more than two hits to pick the right person. Healing I use the raid bar.

 

A good keybind to have is the "Target of Target" which makes clicking your leading team-mates name and then selecting his target so much easier, when you need to coordinate FF or CC.

 

7. Get a life?

 

Sadly what you say is true (and helpful), but it sucks if you just want to have fun a couple of hours after a work day.

 

It doesn't take more than a few hours a day to do what it takes to be competitive. I rarely played matches outside of my daily/weeky (usually played a few extra matches a day to finish weekly early) in my WH gear up, usually while doing BH for some money. Got a great trade/discount with a guildie for all my augments, and I'm Biochem on that toon. WZ consumables were either saved during leveling, or taken from just doing a few matches on a lowbie alt.

 

<.< Oh ya, and I have a full time job, weekly arrangements, chores, errands, and a few other games I enjoy playing (Namely Tera with my S.O.) Sorry dear, but you can't use this excuse, people with lives still excel in PvP.

Edited November 10, 2012 by Doomsdaycomes

[Antipodes]

The 10-49 is more forgiving if you are a PvP novice. It's an abrupt transition from being strong as 40+ in the lowbie bracket, to the bottom of the totem pole as a fresh 50.

 

This is exactly why there needs to be an optional limited-game recruit bracket.

Edited November 10, 2012 by Antipodes

[Stncold]

Premades are a means of solving a problem, but they also cause them.

 

A lot of people only run with premades because the average pug in this game is so absolutely bad that you're likely just going to lose a lot and get frustrated because of it. Another reason is it helps minimize the amount of 15k hp recruits on your team. Fact is this game has a gear gap problem. An bad full WH will win a 1v1 and be generally more useful than a half-competent fresh recruit most of the time. I have nothing against seeing 1 or 2 recruits on my team, and will generally give them my vote over the WH healer to help them get geared a little faster. More than that though, and I know it's usually just gonna be a bad game generally.

 

On the other hand, a full pug going up against a premade is also really frustrating.

[Titanstroke]

Ok I have read it all and I am going to get flamed for this:

 

Items in Order:

1. Yes there has been and continues to be some hacking, mostly I am running into Lag Spike hacks. I meter them, I run the numbers and I see what is happening, if I am lagging on my gaming computer, with my fiber optic line, and the other side isnt and I am seeing funny business on my metered line then yes there is a issue and I report it both to Bioware and the ISP.

 

2. Premades have got to have something done so they wind up finally getting into the arena rather than ruining the non-premade pugging matches. Bioware needs to figure this out, because it doesnt matter 99% of the time a pre-made is going to take down a excellent playing well geared pug group. Been there own the T-Shirts.

 

3. Gear wins matches, followed closely by heals, then finally communication. So Bioware needs to come up with a way for the folks in mostly Recruit gear to play against Recruit gear, Battlemaster againt Battlemaster, and move on up. Gear scores have been an easy way to segregate these groups in other games, otherwise we lose people to the game when they get really tired of trying to get the War Hero gear while getting their face smeared into the dirt on a regular basis. Even the best player will lose in Recruit vesus someone in War Hero, this is from someone with a most WH toon and one who is stil mostly Recruit, I win on one and get pounded on the other and it isnt fun.

 

For the sake of population and game play we need to have this be fun so we keep a viable population. I dont think F2P is going to do it or the Cartel coins, people are quitting it left and right because it is a. not fun, or b. boring and they are paying for fun and enjoyable so there needs to be some work there by Bioware because we cannot do it.

[Taleek]

I will admit premades suck for people coming in, but you get those in 10-49 as well, personally I think it's not any worse than the massive advantage that all the higher leveled players in 10-49 get with all the abilities they have compared to lower players.

[GhostHei]

Personally, the gear grind is a part of what keeps me pvping.

 

I can't play guild wars 2 for that exact reason because there are no progression.

 

If I don't have newer shinier gear to look forward to there is very little motivation for me to grind war zones.

[MidichIorian]

Personally, the gear grind is a part of what keeps me pvping.

 

I can't play guild wars 2 for that exact reason because there are no progression.

 

If I don't have newer shinier gear to look forward to there is very little motivation for me to grind war zones.

But wouldnt you grind for simply a new look? Are the stats more important or more inviting?

[GhostHei]

But wouldnt you grind for simply a new look? Are the stats more important or more inviting?

 

Again, progression. It's also to please the more hardcore min/maxers. It definately make me happy knowing my character will hit a little harder and survive a bit longer everytime I save up enough for new pieces.

Of course looking more ****** is also a good incentive. I sometimes grind pve armors just for the shells as well.

 

I definately know the pain of getting facerolled by BIS warheroes on my recruits, but I guess that really to me is just more incentive to improve my gears so I can stand on equal footing with them.

[Smashbrother]

In the 10-49 bracket it simply took longer for others to deplete my health bar. Way longer.

 

No it doesn't. I have lowbie chars that I do lowbie WZs with, and I see people get chain stunned and die all the time.

[Smashbrother]

Bang on.

 

Ive done everything the guy you replying to says to do and yeah, I win many more matchs.

 

But its still not fun as OP is correct.

Stunathon,

hacking (it does exist and anyone saying different either hacking themselves or just so outta touch with reality they should step away from any fantasy/sci fi game),

Bad Pugs

Pre mades that have no reason in a unranked warzone farming the unranked warzones

 

Just all suck the life outta PVP to the point its no fun anymore.

 

Now I win more then what OP stated but I have augmented gear, I have all the datacrons, I have some guildmates to run with (sometimes, not all the time)

 

But heres the thing for me

 

GEAR and STATS do NOT = skill

 

Thats where TOR pvp falls flat on its face horribly

 

So many of the obnoxious posters here winning because they have better stats, better pre mades, more time invested

 

When you take away all the non skill advantages,

they fall flat on their faces and pile up a ton of losses

 

But that doesnt happen often because skill and ability take a huge backseat in TOR PVP to gear and stats and artificial advantages.

 

OP is dead on the money

 

post 50 PVP is a sick joke for what it could have been.

 

I know Im taking a break from it and focusing more on Ops and Hard mode flashpoints and what not now.

 

At least until EA fixes some of the more obvious problems like Pre made vrs Pug, Expertise stupidity, more and more present hacking in warzones (yes when someone runs from one end of the huttaball zone to the other faster then force speed, scores, and runs back to safety, THATS SPEED HACKING AND DOES EXIST).

 

Sadly with out huge design changes this current form of PVP will never sell to the F2P people. Why would they subscribe to be farmed with zero chance at victory for 1-8 weeks (depending on play amounts)?

 

Terrible PVP system that takes out skill and ability and replaces it with IWIN buttons, uber builds, ganking mentalities, and cheats galor.

 

I find it funny that you complain about premades ruining normal WZs, and then have the gall to say that you group with your friends for normal WZs. So much luls to be had.

 

Gear does matter (and it should), but skill and coordination matters too. I have personally done RWZ games where we used alts in BM/recruit gear and still beat almost every other team in WH/BM gear.

Edited November 10, 2012 by Smashbrother

[Giberelina]

 

It doesn't take more than a few hours a day to do what it takes to be competitive. I rarely played matches outside of my daily/weeky (usually played a few extra matches a day to finish weekly early) in my WH gear up, usually while doing BH for some money. Got a great trade/discount with a guildie for all my augments, and I'm Biochem on that toon. WZ consumables were either saved during leveling, or taken from just doing a few matches on a lowbie alt.

 

<.< Oh ya, and I have a full time job, weekly arrangements, chores, errands, and a few other games I enjoy playing (Namely Tera with my S.O.) Sorry dear, but you can't use this excuse, people with lives still excel in PvP.

 

If I've offended you, I apologize. Dunno, doing all that to just start enjoying a warzone seems like a second job. Especially when is so fun in pre50. I like games that challenges you, like Portal; but I feel like after 50 pvp just tests your patience, it's tiresome. I know I don't excel in MMOS nor is my intention.

Edited November 10, 2012 by Giberelina

[Doomsdaycomes]

If I've offended you, I apologize. Dunno, doing all that to just start enjoying a warzone seems like a second job. Especially when is so fun in pre50. I like games that challenges you, like Portal; but I feel like after 50 pvp just tests your patience, it's tiresome. I know I don't excel in MMOS nor is my intention.

 

If I sounded offended, I apologize. (Probably not my best use of the word 'excuse,' I prolly could have picked a better word.)

 

I don't find it much of a second job, but more of a restart to that character. I think alot of people don't think of it that way, but as a fresh 50 you're pretty much a level 10 again, just with all your abilities. I think people expect after hitting 50 you should feel like a completed toon (and rightly so, I mean you -did- hit max level, you should feel strong).

 

Yes, being as a realist, I know that Post 50 PvP is not like that. I really don't see the recruit stages as any more of a "second job" than early PvE stages. Lose a few Wz's PuG'ing it is just like PuG'ing your first few FP's, while Premading a few WZ's is like getting your guildies in Rakata/BH (or now Dread Guard) to run you through it.

 

Any way, no offense taken, sorry if any was given.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

<.< and before anyone says it, If you've only got enough time to do a pvp daily or so (1-2 hours) you'll gear up at almost the same rate spending those 1-2 hours pve. Please don't tell me pve gears faster... it only gears faster if you put in the time and effort to run ops, which a casual player won't do on a regular basis.

Edited November 10, 2012 by Doomsdaycomes

[Amebia]

Class imbalance>gear grind

 

/thread

Edited November 10, 2012 by Amebia

[CommanderKeeva]

I'm probably going to get flamed for this, some will probably say that I'm a noob or I should just improve, use the terrain better etc. I'm not the best PVP-er, so yes, I could probably improve.

 

But I think that endgame PVP is not enjoyable for most. It is definitely a **** experience for me. I really, really enjoyed the 10-49 bracket. It was so much fun, that I skipped entire planets and just leveled up this way. Then I hit 50. Got my recruit gear.

 

At first, I ALWAYS died in 2 seconds. When I managed to hit someone a few times, I did not even damage them. I could not believe how much that c**pster of an ability, Expertise matters. But whatever, I was a training dummy, I went back again and again and again.

 

Later, after my expertise went up from 1180 to about 1250, I became more resilient. I could inflict damage (to some) and even survive for a while (against some)

 

That's when things started to turn REALLY BAD.

 

This is what a match is like:

 

Stun, stun, stun, dead.

Stun, stun, stun, dead.

Hitting buttons like crazy, not realizing I'm stunned, dead.

...

 

OR

 

Hackers. Great. Hey, that dude goes into stealth for the 3rd time in about 30-50 seconds mid battle. Hey, that other dude isn't overheating. Hey, hey, hey.....

 

OR.

 

Premades. Fully geared. Probably using TS. Slaughterfest.

 

I might suck (I don' think so) but I lose 4 out of 5 WZs, IF I AM LUCKY.

 

Not to mention the "small" things, like how I can never beat a Marauder 1 on 1, even if our gear is pretty much the same. How I can still sometimes die in 2 seconds. How people simply leave the WZ as soon as they realize who we are playing against. And so many more problems...

 

The Warzones are designed nice, but overall endgame pvp is a sick, sick joke. And there you have it, if you don't like raiding, what do you do? Log in, try not to puke until you lose four times for your daily, and log out.

 

I needed to vent. Would be nice not to have any "Cool story bro." comments, but I'm realistic. I resubbed after almost a year, hoping for Star Wars fun, and here I am, downloading GW2 as I type, even thouh I don't like fantasy..

 

Yeah had the same ideas basically. PvP just isn't that much fun anymore for said reasons. The other day a Scoundrel sneaked up behind me, used Shoot First, hit me for 7k, stunned, used Disappearing Act and used Shoot First again and hit me fot another 7k. Dead. Where is the fun in that?

 

Or Rage-spec Jugg jumped and hit me for 7k Smash. One second later another did the same thing and critted for 7k. Dead. Where is the fun in that? I have 15k HP on my Scoundrel atm and cant take two 7+ crits in a row.

 

Sure, nobody is doubting that you can (should) improve to the point, where you can kill people in 2 or 3 GCDs. But again, where is the fun in that? "Boom, headshot! Boom, headshot!"

 

And contrary to the popular belief, the best premades I know don't spend their entire day in regular warzones because they derive some sadistic pleasure from massacring people who do not stand any chance against them. It is simply the most effective way to get gear for their alts (outside RWZs because no one is willing to play against them), which allows them to skip having to wear Recruit and suffer the same fate they give others. Understandable, but not fun from a PuG perspective.

 

And don't get my wrong, losing can be fun. Two days ago I was in a Huttball match we were winning by 2-1 for about 11 minutes. Then with 5 seconds on a timer, the enemy team scored and someone grabbed the ball, so they won at 2-2 by having the ball. Granted we lost, but I don't think I've ever fought so hard in my life in a HB match. Very much enjoyed it.

 

Or yesterday we turned around Novare when we had 6% and the enemy team had 100%. It took an incredible effort (and I don't think it would have been possible without our ninja stealther) but everyone gave it his best shot and ended up winning. Again, very much enjoyed it.

 

But sadly i've been having very few matches like these. Most matches are 0-600 CW or 0-100% or 0-6 Huttball and those are not fun.

 

I consider myself an average or slightly above average PvP'er but I do know my class and have reasonably good gear (BM and some WH) and a WH geared Commando. (I'm so glad I went through all that to have a useless character.) But no amount of grenades or stims or adrenals or medpacks on my part will save the guy defending the node. Or stop the Jugg ball carrier in HB from leaping to the guy shooting at him right by the goal line. Or save our team if the queue doesn't give us a single healer, which happens in like 50% of the matches I'm in. Or stop people from automatically leaving when they see an Elite Warlord on the enemy team.

 

I was also in a match, where 5 enemy players were at rank 100 valor and had their title displayed. Psychological terror won the match for them because in 15 seconds our team dwindled from 8 to 3 and the queue couldn't backfill in time to stop the match from ending prematurely -.-

 

I try to improve all the aspects I can control but what I cannot is what pisses me off the most.

Edited November 10, 2012 by CommanderKeeva

[mitrikzoltan]

But sadly i've been having very few matches like these. Most matches are 0-600 CW or 0-100% or 0-6 Huttball and those are not fun.

 

I know this one..

 

More of you guys mentioned that it is somehow possible to gear up an alt using the main? How do you do that? You just buy the armor piece for your alt and you can mail it to him?

[Debaucher]

Stuns can be annoying, but since OP is a PT, you got 2 of your own. I only play an assault vanguard as an alt but here are some thoughts.

 

(a) If they stun you and get a big chunk of your health away, do not panic, you can do the exact same thing.

 

(b) Marauders, stay a bit away, save your survivability cooldowns (pop adrenaline rush when u are at around 60%) and stuns and try to time your dps skills in order to have them when the opposing sent or mara does not have any defences up. Versus smashers work on getting ur range where it should be (ie, far or close enouph to not get jumped ) against ravage spec'd marauders make sure u don't take a full ravage, by using ur cryo grenade.

 

Note that just by getting a toon to lvl 10 you can actually get a pretty good insight of what he can or cannot do, just by taking a close look on talent trees and abilities. That way you will be a lot more prepared when you face them with your main!

[CommanderKeeva]

I know this one..

 

More of you guys mentioned that it is somehow possible to gear up an alt using the main? How do you do that? You just buy the armor piece for your alt and you can mail it to him?

 

Buy the legacy gear, rip out the mods from the bm/wh piece, put them in the legacy gear, send the stuff over to your alt via mail, rip out the mods from the legacy gear, put the mods in the armor your alt is wearing. Expensive but beats getting stomped in Recruit.

[mitrikzoltan]

Buy the legacy gear, rip out the mods from the bm/wh piece, put them in the legacy gear, send the stuff over to your alt via mail, rip out the mods from the legacy gear, put the mods in the armor your alt is wearing. Expensive but beats getting stomped in Recruit.

 

Huh. I don't even have money for medpacks I know I should do dailies, but those are really super boring. PVP doesn' get you enough money to get by..