Smashbrother Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 (edited) true. By your first statement above, the sorc PvP AoE heals 0 people for 0 health (i.e. doesn't exist), so the command/bh AoE heal is much much better in all respects. Ya I know that no good sage healer goes 31 into heals, but I was just comparing the two aoe heals themselves. But a 31 healing sage can still do ok in normal WZs. RWZs hell no, but it's fine for regulars. If we're comparing those two overall in pvp though, the sage healer wins because of bubble stuns, never ending force, aoe kb root, and immunity to movement impairs when force speeding. Edited November 9, 2012 by Smashbrother Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adellion Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 Merc/Commando hands down. Healing tree = worst healing output compared to operatives/scoundrels & sages/sorcs. Arsenal/Gunnery tree, too reliant on Tracer Missile. One interrupt cuts merc DPS by a huge amount. Pyro/Assault tree, viable, but why roll a merc? Do it on your Powertech/Vanguard. Way more DPS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antipodes Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 The concealment types always have low productivity numbers. Doesn't mean that they aren't adding to a team just as much as a toon that has twice the productivity numbers. Just another reason why meta average dps/heaing/protection is a horrible way to gauge play balance. As far as lethality/DF, those are incredibly powerful toons if handled correctly. I've run my DF in about a dozen lev 50 pvp matches in full recruit gear and have never failed to be top dps score. You just have to avoid tunnel vision w.r.t. your targeting selection. In that sense the toon plays markedly differently than most other subclasses and that may be a hurdle for some. It's not hard to tab dot people. All that damage you're proud of is all easily healable fluff damage. I'd much rather have a commando dps on my team because they at least have some killing power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veyl Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 Take away the blind bubble from the FoTM spec sorcs/sages and it's them, easily. Squishiest class in the game by far. Mercs would be next though. It's not a good sign when the only actual "viable" spec for either of them is to heal and that's it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antipodes Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 31 in sage healing tree always has and always will be a pve only spec. The middle tree provides way too many good surv abilities. The commando aoe heal is instant, but it heals for a fraction of the sage one, and only hits 4 ppl vs. 8. I actually think 31 point seer sages were better than hybrid healing sages pre-1.4. It took more skill to stay alive, but it still worked out with a good team backing the sage up in team fights. Bubble-stun is OP right now, but there still is a considerable difference in healing output. Viisas in Synergy still runs 31 seer afaik. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antipodes Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 (edited) Take away the blind bubble from the FoTM spec sorcs/sages and it's them, easily. Squishiest class in the game by far. Mercs would be next though. It's not a good sign when the only actual "viable" spec for either of them is to heal and that's it. Nope. We were way better than mercs pre-1.4 before the bubble stun. Even if BW takes away the bubble stun, we still got more buffs than them in 1.4. Edited November 10, 2012 by Antipodes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxIncubixx Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 commando merc by far Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skullbash Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Shieldtech Powertech Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phasersablaze Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Shieldtech Powertech Nope. PTs can respec AP or Pyro any time they want. No way you can consider them the worst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashbrother Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 (edited) I actually think 31 point seer sages were better than hybrid healing sages pre-1.4. It took more skill to stay alive, but it still worked out with a good team backing the sage up in team fights. Bubble-stun is OP right now, but there still is a considerable difference in healing output. Viisas in Synergy still runs 31 seer afaik. Meh I prefer having aoe roots on kb and effusion. It's also just nice having the option to dps when the need arises. The aoe heal is nice, but it has a cast time, is stationary and teams aren't usually taking massive aoe damage to make it worth casting most of the time. Edited November 10, 2012 by Smashbrother Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyDragonflame Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Full defence guardian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs_Kimmo Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Full defence guardian No one in their right minds does PvP in a full Defense Build whether they have tank or DPS gear on, and even if one did he'd still be much more useful to the team than a Mando. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byteresistor Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Full defence guardian PvP isn't all about who does the most damage. Def guardians have lots of useful utility. They're not even close to being the worst spec in PvP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Didy_Kush Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Commando lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommanderKeeva Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 (edited) I would consider these classes currently handicapped in PvP to some point: 1. Commando/Mercenary in any shape/form/spec 2. Defense/Immortal or Vigilance/Vengeance Guardian/Juggernaut 3. Shield Specialist/Shield Tech or Tactics/Advanced Prototype Vanguard/Powertech 4. Telekinetics/Lightning Sage/Sorcerer I've heard a lot of people shout "XYZ SPEC IS NOT FOR PVP ZOMG STUPID RESPEC!!1!", but I firmly believe that each and every spec should be viable for pve and pvp, otherwise why bother to create them at all? Plus some people tend to forget that virtually every talent tree has PvP talents, so it must mean that the developers consider every spec PvP worthy. I am, however, not saying that all classes and specs should perform exactly the same, that's just not possible to achieve. But we have a problem, when one spec outshines one or two others so much that they become useless. For example, I always liked the Vigilance-spec on my Guardian and no one complained about me using it before 1.4. And now I always get "respec, you're playing a PvE tree" every time I enter a WZ. As if our team did not already have 5 or 6 Focus-specced Knights. Why do I have to give up the spec that I love and the one that always worked for me just because some other spec can crit 5 people for 7k? I'm not against switching specs if the situation dictates (hell I've respecced my Assault Commando to Combat Medic INSIDE A WARZONE more times than I can count, when I realized our team had no healers) but not being able to use one is just wrong. Take Sentinels/Marauders and Gunslingers/Snipers for example: they are free to use Watchman/Combat/Focus and Marksmanship/Engineering/Lethality. They have 3 viable specs to play in PvP but others only 1? Funniest thing was when a friend of mine played a Telekinetics Sage. 3 Focus Knights and 2 Assault Vanguards complained that he was playing the wrong spec and should go Balance instead. He ended up doing close to 700k damage, more than any of them and more than most of their dps combined. Edited November 10, 2012 by CommanderKeeva Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baalzamon Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Mercenary/Commando Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs_Kimmo Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 (edited) ...currently handicapped in PvP to some point... ...Defense/Immortal or Vigilance/Vengeance Guardian/Juggernaut... Yeah... /facepalm Edited November 10, 2012 by cs_Kimmo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sathid Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Scoundrels/Op's Mercs//Commando's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serpieri Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Commando/Mercenary - Arsenal/Pyro - by far the worse AC when it comes to PVP Tactics/Advanced Prototype Vanguard/Powertech - Flamethrower is buggy in PVE/PVP - needs to be made a viable alternative. Shield Specialist/Shield Tech Vanguard/Powertech - needs defensive utilities - shield and kolto are laughable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMKSED Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Scoundrels/Op's Mercs//Commando's. It's so hilarious when people even think Scoundrel/Operative is gimped. Their healing is top notch and their DPS is actually fairly decent if you pick your fights and aren't completely stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chisaineko Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 I play a DPS sorc, and *can* do well if I'm left alone. Pulled over 700 DPS (no, not 700k total damage; 700 DPS) : fyi.. 700 dps is terrible, you should be hitting at least 1600 dps. Even if you were hitting 1600 dps, next to a sentinel who is dishing out 4500 dps or more (damage per second) a sorcerer is ridiculously low damage. Hate to say it.. but sorcerers die often to people doing 18k damage in 3 seconds. It is unfortunate that we cannot return the favor. What happened to the idea of the ranged glass cannon? Sorcerers are meant to be flimsy, but we are also supposed to hurt things badly. As it is, the absolute best we can do is.. still bad. Chisaineko 50 pvp sorcerer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeepFreese Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 fyi.. 700 dps is terrible, you should be hitting at least 1600 dps. Even if you were hitting 1600 dps, next to a sentinel who is dishing out 4500 dps or more (damage per second) a sorcerer is ridiculously low damage. What server do you play on? I would like to reroll on it so I can learn from the sentinels doing 4500 dps. That truly is astonishing and deserves props. The server record on my server is 1343 DPS by a jugg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warultima Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 What server do you play on? I would like to reroll on it so I can learn from the sentinels doing 4500 dps. That truly is astonishing and deserves props. The server record on my server is 1343 DPS by a jugg. 4500dps is not realistic. Pocket healed derpasmasher assuming every smash hits at least 3 target can pull maybe 2k to 2.5k. I would love to see a screenie for 4.5k dps and I want to know how they hell he pulled that off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenzali Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 (edited) 4500dps is not realistic. Pocket healed derpasmasher assuming every smash hits at least 3 target can pull maybe 2k to 2.5k. I would love to see a screenie for 4.5k dps and I want to know how they hell he pulled that off. Maybe it could be set up with 8 Sorcerors, 5 standing in a clump with no gear on with 8 stacked Revivifications to outheal the damage. The other team would be the one Rage-specced Jugg who will be breaking the damage record and 7 Marauder friends not attacking but just giving him constant Bloodthirst? Might still be a stretch though. Edited November 11, 2012 by Jenzali Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kunixp Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 I play a Combat Medic Commando in pvp. I am 49 right now hoping to hit 50 today. I run about 16k health and I am not even fully geared. The only problem I have is when I get zerged by 2 to 3 at the same time. If I get 1 on me, I can either make him giv eup trying or hold out until a teammate comes along and helps. I really enjoy playing a commando in pvp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts