Philastra Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 The problem with Arsenal is that the entire build is based around tracer, which can interupted. If an Arsenal cant get a stack or 2 off thier damage is gone. Either rebuild the class or make Tracer an instant, which would be overpowered. So the class needs to be reworked. Escape issues are not the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeonHawkeye Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 It's that and more. Lack of mobility, escape tools, preposterous vulnerability to interrupts and CC, mediocre to decent damage at best in ideal conditions, all coupled with laughably low defense which I assume were meant to compensate for our atrocious lack of tools and versatility yet end up failing as miserably as a fat kid flopping in a pool of molasses. My best advice is respec assault, slightly less dysfunctional but still dysfunctional none the less as a Commando, better yet, reroll or simply quit if they don't fix the class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philastra Posted November 3, 2012 Author Share Posted November 3, 2012 (edited) Your right^^^ interupts/KB/cc's all interupt the ability we NEED to be sucessfull in PVP and all of our big hitting abilities you have to be standing still with the exception of Rail Shot but w/o tracer stacks Rail Shot really does nothing. Edited November 3, 2012 by Philastra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldRepublicRevan Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 The problem with Arsenal is that the entire build is based around tracer, which can interupted. If an Arsenal cant get a stack or 2 off thier damage is gone. Either rebuild the class or make Tracer an instant, which would be overpowered. So the class needs to be reworked. Escape issues are not the problem. You are absolutely right sir. Its not the escape that is a mercs problem it is the 97 stuns and slows we have to deal with while only having 1 stun break. The problem is which of the 97 different stuns and slows should we chose to break is a good question. I guess once we figure out how to kite in spite of the impossible odds vs melee we can address the stealth marauder/sentinels that disappear with 5-10% health and reappear with 45-50% health in 4 seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerain Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Arsenal IS NOT FOR PVP. Please just go pyro merc and stop being terrible about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serpieri Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Arsenal IS NOT FOR PVP. Please just go pyro merc and stop being terrible about it. If that's true - then why does the tree have PVP talents? And care to show us where Bioware stated it was a PVE only spec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxmob Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 (edited) Arsenal IS NOT FOR PVP. Please just go pyro merc and stop being terrible about it. I agree that arsenal/gunnery is horrible for pvp dps, but have you tried assault/pyro? they're terrible. more mobile than gunnery/arsenal, but they still need to sit there and channel or cast. they even have one less instant to fire off...but hey...more grenades.... meanwhile, they lack any utility, just like their pve brothers. Edited November 4, 2012 by foxmob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerain Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 I agree that arsenal/gunnery is horrible for pvp dps, but have you tried assault/pyro? they're terrible. more mobile than gunnery/arsenal, but they still need to sit there and channel or cast. they even have one less instant to fire off...but hey...more grenades.... meanwhile, they lack any utility, just like their pve brothers. Pyro can do quite fine... Just bait the interrupt using power shot then unload on the target to get that rail shot reset. You can stay mobile in between while shooting off other abilities and it's not like you only have three to use. Might just be a little harder for you to manage heat but if you kite effectively it shouldn't be an issue at all IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxmob Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 lol kite on an assault commando? compared to what? a lightning sorc or a gunnery commando? cuz those are the only classes in the game that could possibly be worse kiting. the only time an assault/pyro commando/merc kills my vg is when I'm A) ignoring him or B) start the fight a half health. they have one stun. vg has 2. they are as easy to los as a lightning or tracer spammer (easiest in the game). sorry. no. if you're dpsing on a merc/commando, then you're playing baseball with a nerf bat. i don't care what league you're *trying* to play in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SneiK Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 If that's true - then why does the tree have PVP talents? And care to show us where Bioware stated it was a PVE only spec. Seen many Advanced Prototype Powertechs then? That was absolutely horrible pre 1.4, and it still does not cut the cake, as the server issue with Flame Thrower. It just doesn't work, so I concur... Arsenal is not for PvP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SneiK Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 (edited) lol kite on an assault commando? compared to what? a lightning sorc or a gunnery commando? cuz those are the only classes in the game that could possibly be worse kiting. the only time an assault/pyro commando/merc kills my vg is when I'm A) ignoring him or B) start the fight a half health. they have one stun. vg has 2. they are as easy to los as a lightning or tracer spammer (easiest in the game). sorry. no. if you're dpsing on a merc/commando, then you're playing baseball with a nerf bat. i don't care what league you're *trying* to play in. Merc Pyro will win PT Pyro in 1v1 every single time. Funny, isn't it? And, you don't even know why or how. Edited November 4, 2012 by SneiK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxmob Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Merc Pyro will win PT Pyro in 1v1 every single time. Funny isn't it? And, you don't even know why or how. lol what world are you living in? never - ever - has a merc/commando brought down my vg in 1v1, 100% vs. 100%. and I'm no pro on a vg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SneiK Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 (edited) Ok, let's play. Let assume I am a Merc Pyro, and I have eyes, so the fight will start at 10-30m. I could pop, say, TD/IM/Rail on you, all while moving away from you at full speed. What do you do? Edited November 4, 2012 by SneiK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phasersablaze Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Newsflash: There are plenty of AP Powertechs that PVP Newsflash: Arsenal has more utility and more DPS than Pyro Mercs. Marauders have 3 viable PVP trees. Assasins have 3 Viable PVP trees. Saying that Arsenal is not a PVP spec is just stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SneiK Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 (edited) Newsflash: There are plenty of AP Powertechs that PVP Newsflash: Arsenal has more utility and more DPS than Pyro Mercs. Marauders have 3 viable PVP trees. Assasins have 3 Viable PVP trees. Saying that Arsenal is not a PVP spec is just stupid. Newsflash: there's plenty of Arsenal Mercs, that PvP. Doesn't make them any good tho. Now, back to my little game. So, what would you do against the Merc Pyro, Foxmob? Edited November 4, 2012 by SneiK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxmob Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 open from 30 with sticky grenade. if you're ranging me, I'll harpoon and snare. might just harpoon and stun. then snare. maybe you'd be foolish enough to burn your breaker on surge. but I won't assume that. in the real world, however, you won't open from 30 and start running. I'll be within 10m when the fight starts. then you'll be like "oh ****. he's decided to give me the time of day" at which point I melt your fact and interrupt any meaningful cast you attempt, which leave you incendiary, plastique, one hib. yeah. you're dead. go away. srsly. are you really trying to toe to toe with an assault vg on your pyro merc? I don't even need to los you. you're toast. I can do everything you can do...faster. and I have more ints. your only hope is to run away. ok. let me revise. you hit me from 30m and then run. I wave goodbye and get back to the meaningful fight. have fun over there, mr. pyro merc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SneiK Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 (edited) Sticky grenade won't do any DMG, and I have it too. You need to close the gap. So, you use your grapple and snare? Easy, I pushback and Cure. Again, I am 10+m away from you, and you are unable to do any hard hitting attacks, while I can snare you from range (better than you, with more accuracy and offhand), stop to get a rail proc (The rail proc happnes at the beginning of Unload, and it has 75% proc chance btw), and easily regain range with Cure and Rapid shots between my instant DMG dealing attacks. I can even use my Power Surge to get either an instant Power Shot (possible rail proc) or an instant 2-4k heal. Oh, how will you start the fight at 10m in 'real world'? You have a stealth I don't know about? If not, you will have a nice mark above your head, and I'll see you all the way from spawn, 10000000 meters away. You obviously know nothing about Pyro Merc. I don't think you even know how to play PT Pyro. PT is my main btw. Edited November 4, 2012 by SneiK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephenalandavie Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Foxmob stop talking Twoddle!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phasersablaze Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Newsflash: there's plenty of Arsenal Mercs, that PvP. Doesn't make them any good tho. Now, back to my little game. So, what would you do against the Merc Pyro, Foxmob? What does being good have to do with one class being superior? You could say the same stupid argument about Marauders or any other class and it still wouldn't prove anything. If you even played a merc at all you would know that Fox is talking about our Cure. We can cleanse off Incendiary missile, Fusion Missile, CGC INCLUDING THE SNARE COMPONENT. Our superior dps makes us much superior in 1v1 vs Pyro. 1.4 evened the scale a bit with an interrupt, but Arsenal also got an instant heal every 12 secs that crits for over 4k. Arsenal is still superior 1v1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SneiK Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 (edited) Arsenal Merc is a whole different story. A PT Pyro will kill an Arsenal Merc, with 90% health remaining. And it will take a lot less than 12 seconds. And if there's LOS possibilities, so will Merc Pyro. With no LOS, it's harder, but still doable. But, if you think Arsenal will cut it, then you should have nothing to worry about, the class/spec is just fine, isn't it? True story (Seriously, no sarcasm.) Oh, and Phasersablaze, Foxmob is a PT Pyro in this game. I don't think you understood that, as a PT Pyro does not have any of the abilities you described. Edited November 4, 2012 by SneiK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshlaBoga Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 (edited) It's that and more. Lack of mobility, escape tools, preposterous vulnerability to interrupts and CC, mediocre to decent damage at best in ideal conditions, all coupled with laughably low defense which I assume were meant to compensate for our atrocious lack of tools and versatility yet end up failing as miserably as a fat kid flopping in a pool of molasses. My best advice is respec assault, slightly less dysfunctional but still dysfunctional none the less as a Commando, better yet, reroll or simply quit if they don't fix the class. If they were to buff the Commando/Mercenary defence then the class would become viable. Right now my heavy armour merc is squishier than my medium armour sentinel. Edited November 4, 2012 by AshlaBoga Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephenalandavie Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 I think just about any class would kill an arsenal merc if they know what they are doing. Which isn't hard considering. quick interrupt and its good night irene Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxmob Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 (edited) lol putting marks on dps, now? sigh. I'm not going to chase you. if you run away, I wave good bye. if you stay and fight, I wreck you. it's really that simple. I don't have to channel anything. you do. it doesn't matter if you proc your rail. you'll lose all the dps of unload. I won't miss a single gcd on anything, and I'll stun you more than you can stun me. I'll proc hib twice as often as you proc your rail. or you'll range me and I'll wave good bye and move on. you cannot win. I'd have to sit there like a training dummy for you to have any shot. if you bring down vgs/pts on your server, then you outgear them and/or they don't know how to play their class. AC vs. AC, this isn't even a contest. edit: and my hib hits harder than yours. extra spec skills for the tank ac. Edited November 4, 2012 by foxmob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SneiK Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 (edited) Yes, why did you think BW put 8 marks in the game? Wave goodbye? I think you don't understand what a Ranged DPS is about. I have full DMG potential at 30m range. You can 'wave' goodbye to your healthbar, and have a nice day at the spawn area. You're constantly assuming you will get to <10m without using grapple, in which case you would win, but you will not get it so. None of your DMG matters, at 10+m. You can't stun either btw (Hello, patch notes?). You only have Rail each 15sec, and yes, I only need the proc from the Unload, not the dmg. I don't care if I lose that, in a situation like that. Anyway, I don't care if you get it or not, I just proved to you that a PT Pyro will lose to a Merc Pyro (In normal conditions, that means no coming <10m without grapple). It's up to you what you will do with that information. Edited November 4, 2012 by SneiK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenzali Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 (edited) Thanks SneiK. It's reassuring to know that even if DPS Mercs lose in most PvP matchups, they're unbeatable in theoretical forum PvP Point is that your theoretical 30m situation is ridiculous since any one with half a brain will LoS. Edited November 4, 2012 by Jenzali Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts