Force bubble way OP

[Ahl-Vinn]

DO NOT TAKE THIS THREAD'S COMPLAINT SERIOUSLY, PLEASE!

 

The original poster is simply heated after losing a few warzones matches or underperforming. Bubbles are a team-capable defensive tactic that has a cooldown *ON THE RECIPIENT* of the bubble; it's just fine and does not need any tweaking.

 

The few defensive abilities currently in that aid other members of a team are great as-is.

 

[AdmiralParmesan]

As a long time sorc player and main sorc dps pvper I can say the bubble stun is very stupid currently. But even more stupid are some of these suggestions from people who don't even play the class. I try my best as a dps sorc in rated, but the fact is we are not valuable. This bubble stun is the closest dps sorcs have come to even having a real purpose in a rated warzone.

 

Changing the stun back to a mezz is a terrible idea. Both lightning, the hybrid and madness are all based around having at least one DOT on the target. This is why the mezz didn't work as a defensive tool, the blind may occur but most of the time the target is going to be instantly broken out of the cc thanks to your dots. The bubble stun should only effect the casting sorc.

 

 

However with this change other adjustments need to be made as well. Sorc/Sage dps suffers greatly from having no defensive cooldowns or unique offensive cooldowns compared to the alternative Assassin/Shadow classes. Not only this, but sorcs/sages also have no unique CC options available to them either (aside from the bubble stun). Combined with the fact Sorcs/Sage DPS has difficutly creating any damage under pressure, has the lowest passive defense and arguably has the worst burst capability in the game.

 

THE SAGE/SORC DPS SPECS NEED A DIRECTION IN PVP.

 

The class excels at nothing and even the full healing tree is an "okay" choice, but not a good decision for any healer that likes some degree of independence. This "bubble stun" healing spec has become so popular because it is the best way a sorc/sage can contribute, and this bubble stun is also the best way a DPS sorc/sage can contribute. There is a fundamental flaw in the game when playing a full dps sorc/sage means that you are only an offhealing and CC bot that can dps.

 

It is sadly disgusting how many melee just want the ability nerfed to thh ground so sorcs can be perfectly free kills again.

 

For those of you who wanted Ideas I posted this a while back on ways to make the sorc/sage classes more competitive and fun to play. Its a little bit old, but I tried to come up with some interesting ideas.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=537558

Edited November 18, 2012 by AdmiralParmesan

[AdmiralParmesan]

So roll a sorc/sage if they're so damn good. I didnt see you on the barricades back when they were 3 second kills. Had people like you not defended the real OP classes first chance you get there might have been some actual class balance in this game. The only reason sorcs/sages are specing hybrids is because it's the only way of surviving long enough to do something , and they're sacrificing their already poor dps because of it.

 

And yes you are playing an OP class because as ranged it wouldnt be an issue. I'm more or less never getting stunned on my ranged classes. Or work on your awareness.

 

It's also funny how the people who complain never have a bubble throwing sorc/sage on their own team. That's a case for the mythbusters.

 

Having 30K AOE'es and more AOE damage per target than other classes have as single target burst = Fine

Getting bubble stunned = cries

Does not compute!

 

This.

[Sulfuren]

I been quite an avocate for this change.. and now I have a new reason.

 

This -one- spell, can single handedly -SHUT DOWN- Ops/Scoundrels from attempting to take them out effectively.

 

That one spell, countering an -ENTIRE CLASS-

 

Do you see the problem yet? Do you still want to keep advocating to keep this spell the way it is?

[Lafay]

^ im with stupid.

 

Yea it shuts down a few classes with this one spell, not just ops. A good bubble/heal spec sorc has no counter at the moment, maybe a sniper? I dont know but i do know a good sorc that plays this spec and recently won a dueling contest... as a healer lol...

[Nyracasso]

If juggs/maras can lolaoesmash for 5-8k then I see no problem WHATSOEVER with an ability that has an aoe melee stun.

 

It's called BALANCE, kids. You get your toys, but we get our toys too.

Edited November 18, 2012 by Nyracasso

[Sulfuren]

If juggs/maras can lolaoesmash for 5-8k then I see no problem WHATSOEVER with an ability that has an aoe melee stun.

 

It's called BALANCE, kids. You get your toys, but we get our toys too.

 

Yet, has BW clearly seen, "lolsmash" can be -COUNTERED-.

 

This, not so much.

 

Stop with the "one for one" garbage, its not helping at all.

[Lafay]

If juggs/maras can lolaoesmash for 5-8k then I see no problem WHATSOEVER with an ability that has an aoe melee stun.

 

It's called BALANCE, kids. You get your toys, but we get our toys too.

 

not so much a toy, mostly the only thing that keeps a sorc alive at the moment. If it wasnt for this then sorc would be a lot less usefull. It will get nerfed, there is no denying the OP.

 

The real question is if BW will manage to successfully do it and keep sorc still a competitive class. There will be a fine ballancing act here, they should really look into a defensive cooldown for sorc and then full resolve(lowest resolve generating stun, and yet, most common too hmmm OP) those bubbles and call it a day.

[Omble]

Heh, this is priceless. People saying one 3 second stun is shutting down entire classes. It's on a 20s cooldown for 1 and it's totally useless against ranged classes. We have almost no defensive abilities and they wanna take away even more from us? Tell you what, give us back Chain Lightning from Wrath and you can have the stun effect caster only.

[MidichIorian]

.... they should really look into a defensive cooldown for sorc

Hell no! It's a light armor class and should not have a defensive CD to make up for that. It should however have the output to make up for the squishiness and if sorc/sage output was on the same level as the best dps specs, or preferably higher due to the light armor, we wouldnt have hybrids. People would spec for burst instead of survivability since it's more fun to kill than to run around and throw bubbles. Edited November 18, 2012 by MidichIorian

[denpic]

Keep the stun for the caster but not for the players They cast it on

 

Fixed

[Lafay]

Fixed for the OP in a team yes, solo no. Also if they removed if from teammates, it would make sorc less wanted in rated and that isnt fair. Really they should make it double resolve since you can put so many bubbles out there. The only thing keeping them from spamming it now is force use and there aer ways around that and the good people know it. If they started white barring everyone then they would have to use it "strategically" god forbid. As is sits now, the more you can pump them out the more you win. I dont think i have ever been white barred by it even jumping in and smashing 4 people with the bubble and breaking all of them I think it still gives the same 300 resolve or whatever it is, regaurdless of how many u break.

[lokdron]

If bioware nerfs the force bubble stun they better add back the cannon part in glass cannon since right now we are only glass.

 

Cause if they just nerf the bubble stun sorc is going to be even worse people would have no reason to take them anymore. Bioware consider the decision what to do with the skill carefully cause if you nerf without any buffs to our dps you WILL piss of the sorc/sage community.

Edited November 18, 2012 by lokdron

[Kaile]

I have yet to see anyone with a rebuttal about the bubble not affecting ranged enemies. All of the complaining seems to be coming from the melee folks. If the ability only affects melee, then it seems it is more about QQ then it is about the bubble being OP.

[MidichIorian]

I have yet to see anyone with a rebuttal about the bubble not affecting ranged enemies. All of the complaining seems to be coming from the melee folks. If the ability only affects melee, then it seems it is more about QQ then it is about the bubble being OP.

Yeah and as long as they maintain the policy that 5-8K/per person damage in AOE is OK but a bubble stun to prevent just that from happening over and over again is not we're not going anywhere with this discussion.

 

I'm not really buying the "operative argument " either because the ones that the operative are most likely to open on from steath are sorcs/sages and they would have the stun regardless of BW nerfing it so that the stun only applied to the caster.

Edited November 18, 2012 by MidichIorian

[djrobb]

Fixed for the OP in a team yes, solo no. Also if they removed if from teammates, it would make sorc less wanted in rated and that isnt fair. Really they should make it double resolve since you can put so many bubbles out there. The only thing keeping them from spamming it now is force use and there aer ways around that and the good people know it. If they started white barring everyone then they would have to use it "strategically" god forbid. As is sits now, the more you can pump them out the more you win. I dont think i have ever been white barred by it even jumping in and smashing 4 people with the bubble and breaking all of them I think it still gives the same 300 resolve or whatever it is, regaurdless of how many u break.

 

well you may break 4 bubbles but you dont get 4x the stun so why should you get 4x the resolve.

[Blasphemerr]

Keep the stun for the caster but not for the players They cast it on

 

Fixed

 

I agree.

[Lafay]

well you may break 4 bubbles but you dont get 4x the stun so why should you get 4x the resolve.

 

lets see, if we take any other buff/debuff in the game and apply the same logic: If i hit 4 marauders that all have cloak of anhilation up, i will get the rebuttal from all of them. The only reason i dont get 4x the resolve is because of the noob helping reslove tweak that came in 1.4. Combine other cc with these bubbles and a sorc can keep a melee stunlocked for 90% of their life, every spawn. If I am on a team that the ranged dont break them for the melee then it is almost a garunteed loss because 1 stunbubble sorc can keep all the melee on that team stunlocked in effect making them near useless. If a group that knows what they are doing blows the bubbles from range then it is managable but that is less than 95% of the time with pug groups.

 

I don't think you realize how much of a hard counter this spec is to anyone in melee range. Really, i think you do and you want to stay OP but sooner or later BW will ballance it. It is best you discuss a way to ballance it so that it doesnt get nerfed as hard because this thread of 27 pages will get getting looked at. Dont be ignorant. You know BW will nerf classes into oblivion, you might as well try to help them from doing that instead of ignoring everyones usefull feedback. It is the Sorc community that really needs to step up and suggest the way to ballance the class. They know it best. Everyone else will be happy to see you get nerfed to the ground so it would be wise to provide usefull ideas instead of internet attitude troll-bable.

[Kaile]

lets see, if we take any other buff/debuff in the game and apply the same logic: If i hit 4 marauders that all have cloak of anhilation up, i will get the rebuttal from all of them. The only reason i dont get 4x the resolve is because of the noob helping reslove tweak that came in 1.4. Combine other cc with these bubbles and a sorc can keep a melee stunlocked for 90% of their life, every spawn. If I am on a team that the ranged dont break them for the melee then it is almost a garunteed loss because 1 stunbubble sorc can keep all the melee on that team stunlocked in effect making them near useless. If a group that knows what they are doing blows the bubbles from range then it is managable but that is less than 95% of the time with pug groups.

 

I don't think you realize how much of a hard counter this spec is to anyone in melee range. Really, i think you do and you want to stay OP but sooner or later BW will ballance it. It is best you discuss a way to ballance it so that it doesnt get nerfed as hard because this thread of 27 pages will get getting looked at. Dont be ignorant. You know BW will nerf classes into oblivion, you might as well try to help them from doing that instead of ignoring everyones usefull feedback. It is the Sorc community that really needs to step up and suggest the way to ballance the class. They know it best. Everyone else will be happy to see you get nerfed to the ground so it would be wise to provide usefull ideas instead of internet attitude troll-bable.

 

There have been numerous replies in this thread on how to tone it down. I've never seen1 sorc keep all the melee stunlocked 90%. You're not even taking into account that the sorc is never around all other 7 teammates except at the start of the WZ. Don't be ignorant. And as far as useful feedback, you offer none. You're the pot calling the kettle black and it's nothing more than internet attitude troll-babble.

[Lafay]

There have been numerous replies in this thread on how to tone it down. I've never seen1 sorc keep all the melee stunlocked 90%. You're not even taking into account that the sorc is never around all other 7 teammates except at the start of the WZ. Don't be ignorant. And as far as useful feedback, you offer none. You're the pot calling the kettle black and it's nothing more than internet attitude troll-babble.

 

lookout we got a ****** over here.

 

1. Seen that video of those sorc keeping people stunlocked? http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=553499

2. They dont have to be, they just have to be at the node the team is attacking/ballcarrier. Who cares about killing a person that does not help cap/score/plant. If a sorc is there, melee is stuned. By target or somone close clicking off their stun, they are locked.

3. Seriously read, I offered 2 suggestions myself. (increase resolve generation of stun and/or give sorc a def cooldown)

4. I dont play a sorc, but I also dont want to hear them whine when they get nerfed, in the end BW will do as they please, but after seeing many friends quit because of nerfs to their class, i would hate to see some of my sorc friends join the list, so i am emploring sorc's to help the process along.

5. I am not going to pretend i know anything about a sorc and how they function so all i am sayin, is they should speak up now instead of whining later.

[mrekxxx]

Keep the stun for the caster but not for the players They cast it on

 

Fixed

 

this ...

 

but add something usefull, because sorcerer wouldnt be wanted in rateds anymore

[Kaile]

lookout we got a ****** over here.

 

1. Seen that video of those sorc keeping people stunlocked? http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=553499

2. They dont have to be, they just have to be at the node the team is attacking/ballcarrier. Who cares about killing a person that does not help cap/score/plant. If a sorc is there, melee is stuned. By target or somone close clicking off their stun, they are locked.

3. Seriously read, I offered 2 suggestions myself. (increase resolve generation of stun and/or give sorc a def cooldown)

4. I dont play a sorc, but I also dont want to hear them whine when they get nerfed, in the end BW will do as they please, but after seeing many friends quit because of nerfs to their class, i would hate to see some of my sorc friends join the list, so i am emploring sorc's to help the process along.

5. I am not going to pretend i know anything about a sorc and how they function so all i am sayin, is they should speak up now instead of whining later.

 

My first reply was a little snarky but I honestly am not trolling in my response. It's hard to understand tone when reading so if it offends, it's not what is intended.

 

1. Seen those 1,000,000 videos of juggs-maras facerolling paper thin sorcs since launch?

2. If ANYONE is there a sorc is targeted not to mention marked and doomed. Also I was getting at the fact that there are multiple objctives and a sorc can't be everywhere at once.

3. Your first suggestion is definitly a good one, the second one IMO not so good.

4. Sorcs have been nerfed for months and months with their own share of whining, but somewhat justified IMO. I don't want anyone to unsub either but if they rage quit over nerfs then they probably should rethink MMO's.

5. I think there have been plenty of sorcs that have spoken up.

 

This thread is mainly melee QQ and that is ok and to be expected. The bubble could use maybe a minor tweak but nothing big. People lose WZ's, get mad, and vent on the forums. This post is a shining example of making mountains out of molehills, but of course that's my opinion.

[Lafay]

My first reply was a little snarky but I honestly am not trolling in my response. It's hard to understand tone when reading so if it offends, it's not what is intended.

 

1. Seen those 1,000,000 videos of juggs-maras facerolling paper thin sorcs since launch?

2. If ANYONE is there a sorc is targeted not to mention marked and doomed. Also I was getting at the fact that there are multiple objctives and a sorc can't be everywhere at once.

3. Your first suggestion is definitly a good one, the second one IMO not so good.

4. Sorcs have been nerfed for months and months with their own share of whining, but somewhat justified IMO. I don't want anyone to unsub either but if they rage quit over nerfs then they probably should rethink MMO's.

5. I think there have been plenty of sorcs that have spoken up.

 

This thread is mainly melee QQ and that is ok and to be expected. The bubble could use maybe a minor tweak but nothing big. People lose WZ's, get mad, and vent on the forums. This post is a shining example of making mountains out of molehills, but of course that's my opinion.

 

1. Yes, but I know a few sorcs that were good without the stunbubbles, now they are nigh-unsoloable for melee if they know what their doing. Previously it was easy to kill baddie sorcs. I am friends with a few that were tough to kill then (NOT BADDIE) and are now impossible to kill, dont blame the class, blame the player.

 

2. Agreed, most baddie sorcs were easy targets. Now, i really mark em up and scream for FOCUS TARGET cause i hate those damn stun bubbles, where is used to just brush most of them asside. the community is learning to focus these stun bubble sorc now also but it is taking time for them to learn who the hell is stunning them over and over.

 

3. Yea, idk really cause i dont play one, but i do know that what the community whines about eventually gets nerfed (see stunlocking operatives), I would hate to loose my sorc friends like i lost my op friends.

 

4. Yea, there is always going to be a flavor of the month, TBH i never saw a need for previous sorc nerfs. I dont think they were OP then but, specifically stunbubbles, feels op now.

 

5. I see a few sorcs speaking up but usually it is "HAHA IM OP NOW, DIE NOOB" or they just say that "well warriors are OP with smash so i deseerve to be OP also". I would like to see some other ways the class can benifit the ranked groups besides sruns.

 

I have another idea, How about sorc get a buff that can be used in say 45sec - 1 min CD that rejuvinates their team/ops groups resources over time, so in effect warriors get some rage for free, bounty hunters loose heat, agents gain energy and inquisitors gain force. That would rock and help the whole team. If potent enough, it would make people want to protect their sorc so the stunbubbles wouldnt have to. Maybe im dreaming though...

Edited November 18, 2012 by Lafay

[TipsyDrow]

Fine, take away my bubble stun, but....

I want benevolence to be an instant cast spell.

I want deliverence to to have half the channel time.

I want to root on knockback low enough in the tele tree so all three specs can get it.

I want turbulence to either be an instant cast or do twice the damage.

I want an auto project proc added to sever force if target is affected by mind crush.

There ya go...sorcs/sages fixed and usefull in every tree.

In other words give us our flipping healing and dps back that the idiots from bioware took in 1.2 that was completely uneccesary. they neede to fix one bug and that was double dipping for the conveyance proc, that's all they needed to do.

[BoDiE]

1. Yes, but I know a few sorcs that were good without the stunbubbles, now they are nigh-unsoloable for melee if they know what their doing. Previously it was easy to kill baddie sorcs. I am friends with a few that were tough to kill then (NOT BADDIE) and are now impossible to kill, dont blame the class, blame the player.

 

2. Agreed, most baddie sorcs were easy targets. Now, i really mark em up and scream for FOCUS TARGET cause i hate those damn stun bubbles, where is used to just brush most of them asside. the community is learning to focus these stun bubble sorc now also but it is taking time for them to learn who the hell is stunning them over and over.

 

3. Yea, idk really cause i dont play one, but i do know that what the community whines about eventually gets nerfed (see stunlocking operatives), I would hate to loose my sorc friends like i lost my op friends.

 

4. Yea, there is always going to be a flavor of the month, TBH i never saw a need for previous sorc nerfs. I dont think they were OP then but, specifically stunbubbles, feels op now.

 

5. I see a few sorcs speaking up but usually it is "HAHA IM OP NOW, DIE NOOB" or they just say that "well warriors are OP with smash so i deseerve to be OP also". I would like to see some other ways the class can benifit the ranked groups besides sruns.

 

I have another idea, How about sorc get a buff that can be used in say 45sec - 1 min CD that rejuvinates their team/ops groups resources over time, so in effect warriors get some rage for free, bounty hunters loose heat, agents gain energy and inquisitors gain force. That would rock and help the whole team. If potent enough, it would make people want to protect their sorc so the stunbubbles wouldnt have to. Maybe im dreaming though...

 

No way are sorcs unsolo-able with this bubble. They have to take a lot of points in the most useless tree just so they get a stun. A geared mara/ jugg will faceroll a sorc in no time at all.