iPvP Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Does anybody have an idea on when they might actually buff vengeance or is it a sad reality that it won't change for awhile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elyx Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 It doesn't need it. also, i have no clue what part of the game your referencing. PvP? or PvE? I'm seeing allot of these posts now that rage has been buffed a bit. odd thing was, before the buff, vengeance was doing pretty well in PvP based on those that i read who were playing it (dracosz use to run vengeance in his guilds rated games). I honestly think that its simply being overshadowed by rage now that its FoTM. doesn't have anything to do with vengeance and its ability. oh...and vengeance is fine in PvE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iPvP Posted October 24, 2012 Author Share Posted October 24, 2012 Im talking about pvp... I have played so much pvp on my jugg and as a full WH and rated group runner, vengeance in no way is a threatening spec towards healers or tanks.... Arguee all you want . I love vengeance but it really needs some damage or root buffs or the class will stay where it is. ( of course I'm talking about its damage towards full geared players) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllanGand Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 what buffs would you like exactly? Like I would love a root on ravage for example, it's actually surprising to me that a spec that is built around ravage doesn't have that and yet marauders do. But other than that, I can't think of anything else that wouldn't just completely change the class. The complaint I hear most often is that we don't have enough burst, and yeah it's true we don't. But to give us more burst you would have to redo half the talent tree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iPvP Posted October 24, 2012 Author Share Posted October 24, 2012 Yea a root would be great... But IMO they need to make the shatter dot 9 seconds . Make the impale 4... An have some sort of damage stack from impale and they need to buff or get rid of the force scream dot .. I would prefer it give a 50% movement speed reduc or Somthing .... The damage it's self is ok but it's moves can be kited by a smart player... Maybe a charge/saber throw range reduction like ani Mara's so we can charge and saber throw anyone near us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsiriusNazriel Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Im talking about pvp... I have played so much pvp on my jugg and as a full WH and rated group runner, vengeance in no way is a threatening spec towards healers or tanks.... Arguee all you want . I love vengeance but it really needs some damage or root buffs or the class will stay where it is. ( of course I'm talking about its damage towards full geared players) You kidding me? Force charge -> Ravage Effectively nullifying hybrid healers with the Rage tree immunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iPvP Posted October 24, 2012 Author Share Posted October 24, 2012 The 1 second stun After charge isn't a huge advantage to ravage.... They can still run from you and make the last tick not give damage... I don't know what server or team you play on but everybody takes rage over vengeance ... It's just how it is. Rage is a more pressured class and in pvp and rates burst is king Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthBandeth Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 The 1 second stun After charge isn't a huge advantage to ravage.... They can still run from you and make the last tick not give damage... I don't know what server or team you play on but everybody takes rage over vengeance ... It's just how it is. Rage is a more pressured class and in pvp and rates burst is king That logic is terrible. Rage is currently killing everything, by your logic every other spec along with vengeance should be buffed to make up for it. Rage just needs to be nerfed a bit, Vengeance was doing good in PvP and still is, just not as good as Rage. You shouldn't be able to kill everyone you set your mind to either, otherwise why would anybody play any of the other classes? Maybe it's not the spec, maybe it's you. Or maybe it's the other person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iPvP Posted October 25, 2012 Author Share Posted October 25, 2012 What? Your twistin my words... If your a juggernaut and your playing rateds they would probably take a rage juggernuat over vengeance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denpic Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 I play a guardian and the slight nerf to vig/veng and the Unnecessary buff to rage/focus was enough to tip the balance tin pvp to rage/focuses favour Rage is just to good now to be any other spec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iPvP Posted October 25, 2012 Author Share Posted October 25, 2012 Well said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creslan Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 (edited) 3 Things. Shatter to 9 sec dot. 30% Armor Penetration from Rage moved to Vengence and made melee attacks only instead of Force attacks. 15% run speed in Shien Stance. That would Fix both Rage and Vengence. Edited October 25, 2012 by Creslan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warlord_Maliken Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 (edited) lol Vengeance is fine brother, its normal.. Rage is wildly overpowered is all. its actually quite pathetic and im assuming the company is working on how they are going to move damage #'s around the rage spec. (Less dmg from smash, more dmg into force crush; or just slight dmg reduction without compensation.. Something of this nature is needed and fast). My main is a valor 100 juggy and as unpopular as it is to say, i'm very good with him. The rotation, flow, and gameplay of Rage spec is now where it needs to be thanks to 1.4, however the damage ratio is way off base. 1500 dps is reachable in competitive matches (depending on class compositions) as rage spec. And 1.8 mill dmg done isnt unrealistic. I'd like to add that I was a bit upset to see the developers say that they were waiting to see if Rage Warriors were just a flavor of the month, and if people would stop playing them when they realise it doesnt fit their playstyle. We all know how annoying 3 rage warriors working together can be. If a specific tree for a class is completey and utterly overpowered, I dont see how it being a flavor of the month is relevant at all to balancing the game out.. On the same note, i do understand your frustration with the Vengeance tree. Because as of now there is simply no reason what so ever to go Vengeance in pvp, as Rage is much more efficient; yes even in huttball. I've actually gone vengeance for huttball match, killing stuff, trying to run ball etc. We were down 3 to 0.. I got annoyed and quickly respecced to Rage as I was waiting for the spawn gate to open. I then proceeded to Smash, smash, smash, smash and then we came back and won easy. We owned them. Its really that powerful lol.... P.S. The only thing I'd like to see with vengeance tree is Shatter to have a shorter Dmg over Time duration (same dmg just dealt in less time), OR Shatter have more initial damage and less dmg over time. But honestly there are much larger fish to fry in pvp in swtor right now that I don't even care about it. Bottom line vengeance is normal, Rage is abnormally overpowered. Edited October 25, 2012 by Warlord_Maliken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vimm Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 3 Things. Shatter to 9 sec dot. 30% Armor Penetration from Rage moved to Vengence and made melee attacks only instead of Force attacks. 15% run speed in Shien Stance. That would Fix both Rage and Vengence. The run speed would be delightful! Just like concealment, carnage and deception (All middle trees) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vormicia Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 oh...and vengeance is fine in PvE. I disagree, we need a lil tweaking to get to the sub 5% from mauraders atm they are doing more like 15% more along with snipers. They just need to tweak our bleeds or even add a boost as a talent to improve them and we will be gtg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Rathus Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 (edited) I disagree, we need a lil tweaking to get to the sub 5% from mauraders atm they are doing more like 15% more along with snipers. They just need to tweak our bleeds or even add a boost as a talent to improve them and we will be gtg Single Saber Mastery - Shien Form: Increases all melee damage dealt by 5/10/15 %. Vengeance fixed. Edited November 2, 2012 by Darth_Rathus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UncleOst Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 Heh, you veng guys should come down to the duel zones and pick up a few tips from some people...as shi-cho, I take shien opponents very seriously. How about switching current unstoppable stats to 20 percent damage boost across the board? You guys with yer "gimme moar dps" ...would you really trade unstoppable? didn't think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SebastianII Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Heh, you veng guys should come down to the duel zones and pick up a few tips from some people...as shi-cho, I take shien opponents very seriously. How about switching current unstoppable stats to 20 percent damage boost across the board? You guys with yer "gimme moar dps" ...would you really trade unstoppable? didn't think so. Well, I think you just about sum it up there. Vig guardians and veng juggs are being excluded from end game content because of the lack of damage. We have the only choice at this point to respec rage/focus or not go into end game content. I'm sure my other brethern agree that we'll trade in unstoppable when you will trade in the auto crits and armor pen. Ironic when we compare our apples to your oranges.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wadecounty Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 You guys are comparing PvE to PvP, and btw, Vengeance is perfectly 100% viable for endgame content, the skill cap is just higher compared to other DPS specs. It won't be the top DPS in most cases but it can more than pull its weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SebastianII Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 You guys are comparing PvE to PvP, and btw, Vengeance is perfectly 100% viable for endgame content, the skill cap is just higher compared to other DPS specs. It won't be the top DPS in most cases but it can more than pull its weight. Of course its viable for endgame content, the mechanics and rotations are pretty smooth (and enjoyable which why I feel we are fighting for this spec!) But when we still significantly under damage other classes and are excluded from content because of our choice in spec, something is wrong. Btw, I mean both PVP and PVE. I've been excluded from ops and from ranked warzones because a sentinel or marauder can go in my stead. And please don't bring their utility to bare over guardian utility because there are times those groups already have their duel saber wielders and replace me for another one. The issue at hand is players should pick the class and spec they want and still be able to do the content they want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korban_HoD Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Give shatter a 9 sec dot would be more than enough for vengeance to outmatch rage when it gets nerfed back to a realistic standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arkitip Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Of course its viable for endgame content, the mechanics and rotations are pretty smooth (and enjoyable which why I feel we are fighting for this spec!) But when we still significantly under damage other classes and are excluded from content because of our choice in spec, something is wrong. Btw, I mean both PVP and PVE. I've been excluded from ops and from ranked warzones because a sentinel or marauder can go in my stead. And please don't bring their utility to bare over guardian utility because there are times those groups already have their duel saber wielders and replace me for another one. The issue at hand is players should pick the class and spec they want and still be able to do the content they want. Get a better guild. A good guild doesn't exclude a good player because of their spec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iDraxter Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 The run speed would be delightful! Just like concealment, carnage and deception (All middle trees) add Adv prototype also middle tree with speed inc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iDraxter Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 (edited) The run speed would be delightful! Just like concealment, carnage and deception (All middle trees)add Adv prototype also middle tree with speed inc Of course its viable for endgame content, the mechanics and rotations are pretty smooth (and enjoyable which why I feel we are fighting for this spec!) But when we still significantly under damage other classes and are excluded from content because of our choice in spec, something is wrong. Btw, I mean both PVP and PVE. I've been excluded from ops and from ranked warzones because a sentinel or marauder can go in my stead. And please don't bring their utility to bare over guardian utility because there are times those groups already have their duel saber wielders and replace me for another one. The issue at hand is players should pick the class and spec they want and still be able to do the content they want.If I we re you add leave that guild and join a guild with sane ppl, NOBODY tells me what spec to play, I play what is fun for me Edit: srry for double post Edited November 10, 2012 by iDraxter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UncleOst Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Well, I think you just about sum it up there. Vig guardians and veng juggs are being excluded from end game content because of the lack of damage. We have the only choice at this point to respec rage/focus or not go into end game content. I'm sure my other brethern agree that we'll trade in unstoppable when you will trade in the auto crits and armor pen. Ironic when we compare our apples to your oranges.... Trade in auto crits And armor pen? Sounds like you value unstoppable alot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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