Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

[cycao]

No, what is sad is that people can't recognize that ppl queuing solo are at a severe disadvantage when paired against 4 or 8-man pre-made groups. And that, on certain server/faction combinations (Harbinger, Republic), you have virtually NO chance of ever seeing a pre-made on your side.

 

I accept that my gear needs to get better, and my skills. And no, contrary to your hyperbole, I do not expect BW to give me a one-shot and win button. Hell, even as a PvE'er only PvPing for a couple of weeks (valor 35!), I have lost *plenty* of matches where I thought the PuG I was in did a great job and we were just slighting outmatched, but were still competitive. But getting 3-capped and spawn capped by an 8-man pre-made...what exactly am I supposed to learn from that? Really, tell me. So far, the only lesson I've learned is that I either need to dedicate ALL of my swtor time to PvP so I can hope to get into one of the uber-leet PvP guilds, or I need to change factions, or I need to accept that I will lose 90% of the time even when I get gear.

 

Other than that, I agree that deserters should be shot on sight IRL. Or banished. Or some equally horrible punishment doled out for screwing the rest of the team over.

 

I highlighted what I feel is the most important thing you posted.

[Technohic]

I will go out on a limb with numbers pulled out of thin air (like I see on here so much) and say that 80% of the time, when I am in a PUG and they complain about the other team being a premade; it actually isn't even a premade. Team is just bad.

 

Nothing personal to those who I have been teamed with, but to expect to win when nobody wants to even type anything in chat, or regroup rather than run single file, one at a time; it just isn't going to happen.

[chaosmadness]

I guess it's good your opinion does not mean much too BW.

 

Really ? I have a different point of view...

I have a lot of games out there to play...I dont like the premades in normal warzones and if BW dont do nothing about this i go player another game, simple.

 

So, BW must listen players because only the players can keep Sw:tor up

[TheBigBee]

Its so hard get more 7 ppl to do Ranked in a MMO ?! jeez

 

ranked isnt a pug game

[TheBigBee]

ranked isnt a pug game

 

thats like saying just grab 8 people and do EC nm mode....

[NoFishing]

I highlighted what I feel is the most important thing you posted.

 

Why do you feel me being primarily a PvE'r doing PvP on the side is the most important part of my post? Is it so you feel justified in disregarding my opinion? You don't need 2000 hours of PvP time and valor 100 to see that pugs vs premades is, far more often than not, a terrible match.

[Pvtcarnage]

I love how premaders continue to justify an unfair system by blaming the victim. If you guys are really that good, why don't I see you in ranked? I only roll in premades because I know soloing is absolutely pointless. I'll be on the same weekly for a month. If I can't find a group I don't bother queuing because the experience won't even be remotely enjoyable. As a side effect, I find myself PvPing less and less as dedicated PvPers know better and leave this game and I have a harder time finding ppl to play with. Is this really how you want the trend to continue? The idiocy of these people is beyond me. I want everyone to have the opportunity to have fun. Not just the elite few. Sorry if that's a crime to the elitists.

 

Victims huh? that's funny. Premades put forth the effort to group up, and the "victim" chooses not to which means they choose to be victims. Of course I don't feel like a victim when I solo que. I can even have fun if I lose, Why do I still have fun? because I enjoy PvP and it's not something I do to just get a daily done.

 

But BW is taking care of gear gap and working on better match making, better start practicing what the new "Victim" will need to come here and moan about.

[cycao]

Why do you feel me being primarily a PvE'r doing PvP on the side is the most important part of my post? Is it so you feel justified in disregarding my opinion? You don't need 2000 hours of PvP time and valor 100 to see that pugs vs premades is, far more often than not, a terrible match.

 

Well you have minimal experience and gear so right there will put you at a disadvantage not just facing premades and getting 3 capped and blah blah blah. Yes those things happen I have been on the giving and receiving side of everything you listed. Sometimes its playing a premade or facing one either way it happens and I take it with a grain of salt either way.

[Pvtcarnage]

Its so hard get more 7 ppl to do Ranked in a MMO ?! jeez

 

I see, you want welfare help by making the people who play with some friends to go out and find more so we que else where and all for your enjoyment.

 

Gee now that I think about it feel so bad for having friends when others don't

Edited December 6, 2012 by Pvtcarnage

[TonyDragonflame]

In fact, there are two kinds of premades - "casual" premades of 2-3-4 guild (or not) friends, very often without any voice communications - and "hardcore" 4-mans groups from pvp-guilds, with hi-end gear, correct team composition, who play ranked wz and have high rank.

I think, when "casual" premades faced "casual" pug, there is not a problem.

Problems begins, when "hardcore" premades faced casual pug, "casual" premade. or even "hardcore" pug.

 

So, "hardcore" premades must be not allowed to regular wz. If you have rank (= wanna competition), play ranked. If you have zero rank, play regular.

[PoliteAssasin]

I see, you want welfare help by making the people who play with some friends to go out and find more so we que else where and all for your enjoyment.

 

Gee now that I think about it feel so bad for having friends when others don't

 

Lol, sad but true Is it so hard to group up with 3 other people?

[cycao]

In fact, there are two kinds of premades - "casual" premades of 2-3-4 guild (or not) friends, very often without any voice communications - and "hardcore" 4-mans groups from pvp-guilds, with hi-end gear, correct team composition, who play ranked wz and have high rank.

I think, when "casual" premades faced "casual" pug, there is not a problem.

Problems begins, when "hardcore" premades faced casual pug, "casual" premade. or even "hardcore" pug.

 

So, "hardcore" premades must be not allowed to regular wz. If you have rank (= wanna competition), play ranked. If you have zero rank, play regular.

 

Look ranked warzones are a lot of fun, with loads of competition. With such a high level, having the right group comp and players is critical to have any success. I probably run ranked about 3-4 times a week and usually its not with my guild. Now when my guild does have players to run the teams I have been running with are left searching for more players. Its just never a guaranteeing that you will have enough players of any guild/class/player to get a group going let alone not knowing if there is even another group going.

 

Last Saturday we spent over an hour getting a group going, someone would have to leave and we would replace them and so on and so on. Never got a pop. Once we got settled in sat in the queue for what seemed like forever. Now that does not happen all the time but it does happen and enough to make it a pain. Why should we not be able to queue with a couple of our friends to partake in pvp because we have a rating?

 

Split the queues fine. But only with cross server and if they could guarantee that a group of 3 wont sit in limbo waiting for another group of 3 and group of 2 to join the queue.

[chaosmadness]

I do, I do run groups in normal warzones. I also run ranked as often as I can. Someone with your level of intelligence should know getting 8 people together for a rated mach is easy I will give you that. But having 8 random classes/players would be a terrible group composition. To have any success in rateds you need a proper group comp and most guilds do not have access to this luxury 24/7. Though as of late at least on my server a lot of guilds have been using other players/guilds to fill spots to keep groups going which is great.

 

First, i dont care what u think dude...

I pay for a service AKA Sw:tor and im posting my opinion in this thread where i agree with the OP, like many others, that premades are ruinning normal warzones.

 

Bye.

Edited December 6, 2012 by chaosmadness

[TheBigBee]

In fact, there are two kinds of premades - "casual" premades of 2-3-4 guild (or not) friends, very often without any voice communications - and "hardcore" 4-mans groups from pvp-guilds, with hi-end gear, correct team composition, who play ranked wz and have high rank.

I think, when "casual" premades faced "casual" pug, there is not a problem.

Problems begins, when "hardcore" premades faced casual pug, "casual" premade. or even "hardcore" pug.

 

So, "hardcore" premades must be not allowed to regular wz. If you have rank (= wanna competition), play ranked. If you have zero rank, play regular.

 

OMG GOOD PLAYERS ARE BEATING BAD PLAYERS OMG

 

If your ranked team isnt on....sit in the fleet and do nothing so that bads can feel good about themselves...

 

Lucky for us BW desided..if you have some friends on... go ahead group up with them...we wont let u have a full team as this would be unfair.....but you can have a few friends tho and enjoy pvping together

[chaosmadness]

yes it is a dictatorship lol.... BW is the dictator.... they own the game... you just pay to play the game

 

yeh, u have a lot of fun...

Go grab ur WH friends and go to normal warzones kill recruit geared players...

Pro pvp players go to Ranked, not to normal warzones

 

BB dude.

[cycao]

First, i dont care what u think dude...

I pay for a service AKA Sw:tor and im posting my opinion in this thread where i agree with the OP, like many others, that premades are ruinning normal warzones.

 

Bye.

 

Such ignorance. Your opinion which is premades do not belong in normal warzones is fine but my argument for grouping with a couple of friends is stupid, which I guess in turn is a direct result of ruining warzones.

 

Your logic is so *** backwards its astonishing.

 

I also pay for a service and am simply posting my opinion.

[NoFishing]

So, "hardcore" premades must be not allowed to regular wz. If you have rank (= wanna competition), play ranked. If you have zero rank, play regular.

 

This I don't agree with....people should be able to group up and play regular WZs if they want. But the matching system has to get better at not pitting casual PuG groups against them constantly. The use of Queue Group vs Queue Solo should at least be a factor in creating WZs.

[cycao]

This I don't agree with....people should be able to group up and play regular WZs if they want. But the matching system has to get better at not pitting casual PuG groups against them constantly. The use of Queue Group vs Queue Solo should at least be a factor in creating WZs.

 

Well they did say they will be re working the match making system to match "elite players vs elite players" (their words not mine). When and how they do this is another discussion.

[NoFishing]

Split the queues fine. But only with cross server and if they could guarantee that a group of 3 wont sit in limbo waiting for another group of 3 and group of 2 to join the queue.

 

I don't want completely split queues, and there is no need for something as complex as cross server queues. If you can't get a ranked pop, and decide to split up and do some regular WZs, I would prefer you to be matched against another premade, maybe even the other half of your ranked group! That should be fun! But if 5 minutes or so go by without a suitable match, I have no problem if the system throws whatever it can together to get a match going.

 

But match after match after match after match against the same min/maxed fully augmented WH premade is...disheartening. And again, there is nothing I can learn to improve my skills once we are spawn camped. Well, except where to stand to both clear the deserter debuff and LoS anyone with a pull.

[Theodulus]

Look ranked warzones are a lot of fun, with loads of competition. With such a high level, having the right group comp and players is critical to have any success. I probably run ranked about 3-4 times a week and usually its not with my guild. Now when my guild does have players to run the teams I have been running with are left searching for more players. Its just never a guaranteeing that you will have enough players of any guild/class/player to get a group going let alone not knowing if there is even another group going.

 

Last Saturday we spent over an hour getting a group going, someone would have to leave and we would replace them and so on and so on. Never got a pop. Once we got settled in sat in the queue for what seemed like forever. Now that does not happen all the time but it does happen and enough to make it a pain. Why should we not be able to queue with a couple of our friends to partake in pvp because we have a rating?

 

Split the queues fine. But only with cross server and if they could guarantee that a group of 3 wont sit in limbo waiting for another group of 3 and group of 2 to join the queue.

I find it kind of strange that it's so hard to find 8 regular people for RWZ and maybe 2-4 substitutes. For some strange reasons I've joined PvE guilds on both factions even though I mostly PvP. There are some guys PvPing though and we have fun but their primary focus is end game raiding. The new NM mode is not forgiving but they never have trouble filling their ranks with competent people. They have a core of 8 players doing endgame raiding. They also have 4 extras with proper gear and ok skill that can sub in for endgame ops if required. They even kick out a regular raider in favor for an extra so they don't feel left out.

 

Is there a problem with PvP guilds attitude where you already have to be the best of the best to join? If you take in extras and train them you never let them join your RWZ team or what's the deal?

 

Note that this post may not be aimed at you since it seems you sub for other guilds. But you may shine some light on why these guilds you sub for have trouble filling their ranks.

[cycao]

I find it kind of strange that it's so hard to find 8 regular people for RWZ and maybe 2-4 substitutes. For some strange reasons I've joined PvE guilds on both factions even though I mostly PvP. There are some guys PvPing though and we have fun but their primary focus is end game raiding. The new NM mode is not forgiving but they never have trouble filling their ranks with competent people. They have a core of 8 players doing endgame raiding. They also have 4 extras with proper gear and ok skill that can sub in for endgame ops if required. They even kick out a regular raider in favor for an extra so they don't feel left out.

 

Is there a problem with PvP guilds attitude where you already have to be the best of the best to join? If you take in extras and train them you never let them join your RWZ team or what's the deal?

 

Note that this post may not be aimed at you since it seems you sub for other guilds. But you may shine some light on why these guilds you sub for have trouble filling their ranks.

 

Well our guild can have anywhere from 4-10 PvP players online on any given night. The issue is getting a proper group comp that works (2 tanks/healers and the dps) now we could probably run about every night but to drive a good point home is trying to get a core group going and then build off of that. We have struggled doing this for some time and only in the last few weeks have we named our core members and after that you can get your replacements.

 

What really makes a good rated team is one that plays together and has great communication when it comes to focus fire (IMO most important thing for ranked) and knowing what every ones strengths are. Shuffling players in and out of ranked every day its hard to get a team that flows together.

 

Trust me when I say it we try and get rateds going all the time and only with the right comp and more importantly the players will you stand to have any success against the best teams.

[Theodulus]

Well our guild can have anywhere from 4-10 PvP players online on any given night. The issue is getting a proper group comp that works (2 tanks/healers and the dps) now we could probably run about every night but to drive a good point home is trying to get a core group going and then build off of that. We have struggled doing this for some time and only in the last few weeks have we named our core members and after that you can get your replacements.

 

What really makes a good rated team is one that plays together and has great communication when it comes to focus fire (IMO most important thing for ranked) and knowing what every ones strengths are. Shuffling players in and out of ranked every day its hard to get a team that flows together.

 

Trust me when I say it we try and get rateds going all the time and only with the right comp and more importantly the players will you stand to have any success against the best teams.

Just wondered because composition and team work is very much important in endgame raiding too. It just seems that PvE guilds struggle less than PvP guild in finding competent players capable of team work.

[criminalheretic]

Lol, sad but true Is it so hard to group up with 3 other people?

 

It is. You see these people have jobs, and families, and cats and dogs. All of which directly prohibit them from actively looking for people to PvP with.

 

If I only had 30 minutes a day to play Swtor, I would want to make very sure I won all those games too.

 

Of course if I only had 30 minutes, I probably wouldn't spend 2 hours a day on the forums, and if I did spend 2 hours a day on the forums, it would be the "guild recruitment" section of the server specific forums...but I digress. Or do I?

[criminalheretic]

Just wondered because composition and team work is very much important in endgame raiding too. It just seems that PvE guilds struggle less than PvP guild in finding competent players capable of team work.

 

Tanks can control aggro in PVE. Kephess doesn't go a "Oooh! A Commando!" Makes a huge difference in the viability of certain classes.

[Jadescythe]

I find it kind of strange that it's so hard to find 8 regular people for RWZ and maybe 2-4 substitutes. For some strange reasons I've joined PvE guilds on both factions even though I mostly PvP. There are some guys PvPing though and we have fun but their primary focus is end game raiding. The new NM mode is not forgiving but they never have trouble filling their ranks with competent people. They have a core of 8 players doing endgame raiding. They also have 4 extras with proper gear and ok skill that can sub in for endgame ops if required. They even kick out a regular raider in favor for an extra so they don't feel left out.

 

Is there a problem with PvP guilds attitude where you already have to be the best of the best to join? If you take in extras and train them you never let them join your RWZ team or what's the deal?

 

Note that this post may not be aimed at you since it seems you sub for other guilds. But you may shine some light on why these guilds you sub for have trouble filling their ranks.

 

A few issues with your comparison:

 

1) The difficulty of encounters in PVE are at a set level. The best group may clear it faster, with more HP, etc, but the difficulty level for them isn't different than guilds that can't clear it at all. In PVP, the skill of your opponents isn't at one set level. There is no way to know if your regulars will make up for the lower skill of the subs.

 

2) Class composition isn't important for many PVE encounters. Pretty much as long as you don't have a DPS operative you're fine. Those that do matter are more along the lines of proper distribution of ranged and melee. In ranked PVP, you better have a carnage mara, you better have a bubble sorc, you better have an op healer, you better have a tanky sin, etc.

 

3) Gear takes longer to get in PVP. With the abundance of crafters for 63 level modification items and the abundance of black hole comms, it's not hard to find people in all augmented 61/63 gear. Skill can make up for a lack of gear in PVE by executing flawlessly on fight mechanics. PVP isn't quite as forgiving when the other team is BiS. PVE content can also be outgeared by some to make up for a lack of gear on another. In fact, since operations drop better gear than they are targeted for (have to be able to beat it to get the gear in the first place), after 1 or 2 clears you already outgear the difficulty. In PVP, the opponent always has the possibility to have the exact same gear as you do.

 

4) Ranked PVP requires strict coordination and focus firing. I'm not saying PVE doesn't, but you know your role and the fight isn't going to change from what it always is. Calling out targets and adapting to an opponent that thinks requires the whole team to be on the same page.

 

Can you win ranked warzones without everything I mentioned? Sure, but not against the best teams which is why many of the teams don't queue or at least don't queue without their usual teams.