Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

[Wainamoinen]

...The problem is you get people who hit 50 later in the game, or for other reasons are just coming back to the game, and get ran over by full groups in Elite War Hero armor...

 

There is no Elite War Hero armour. Which makes it difficult for what you say to be true. I expect you know it isn't true, but were exaggerating a bit to make it sound more dramatic.

 

Frankly, a bigger problem than gear or premades is people believing ego-fluffing guff that they lost, and will lose, because they have no chance in warzones due to gear/class-imbalance/premades. Because then we get quitters ruining warzones for everyone and people doing nothing to make themselves better - no point if you're powerless. Believing that is the biggest gimp of all.

 

With normal warzones being a random draw any warzone might be one-sided, and you can get a string of bad fights, that's just probability. But the tools to improve are in everyone's own hands, no-one is unfairly blocked from improving their chances by getting better gear, friends or play, and inequality of opportunity is the only real unfairness*.

 

*why I have some time for arguments about class imbalance - if a class is offered it should have a roughly equal chance to perform. Otherwise the argument is that we should all reroll the top spec, which would be very dull. So a "fair", roughly equal chance for all specs to perform, or at least a decent variety of them.

Edited December 5, 2012 by Wainamoinen

[PalihoJ]

Premades ruining non ranked warzones? Hmm no if premades didn't queue for warzones there wouldn't be half as many pops as there are now. You just need to stop this "solo player" crap suck it up and group with people and form your own premade (shocker I know grouping with people in an mmo)

 

Now shut the **** up about premades already /yawn.

 

I would have used different words and probably taken 1/2 of a page but in essence I agree with this.

[YaanaOhtar]

There is no Elite War Hero armour. Which makes it difficult for what you say to be true. I expect you know it isn't true, but were exaggerating a bit to make it sound more dramatic.

 

Frankly, a bigger problem than gear or premades is people believing ego-fluffing guff that they lost, and will lose, because they have no chance in warzones due to gear/class-imbalance/premades. Because then we get quitters ruining warzones for everyone and people doing nothing to make themselves better - no point if you're powerless. Believing that is the biggest gimp of all.

 

With normal warzones being a random draw any warzone might be one-sided, and you can get a string of bad fights, that's just probability. But the tools to improve are in everyone's own hands, no-one is unfairly blocked from improving their chances by getting better gear, friends or play, and inequality of opportunity is the only real unfairness*.

 

*why I have some time for arguments about class imbalance - if a class is offered it should have a roughly equal chance to perform. Otherwise the argument is that we should all reroll the top spec, which would be very dull. So a "fair", roughly equal chance for all specs to perform, or at least a decent variety of them.

 

That is 1 side. Another side is newly 50 with recruit gear against premade. What lesson should they learn to win against premade ? Nothing. They dont have a single chance. Any pt with 2 recruit gears will lose against premade 4, and i dont want to start on 8. If you keep losing, or got killed in 20 sec touching the battle ground, would you able to learn anything beside farming better gear ? And losing only give them 50 medal at best. It would take weeks for them to get full BM and even that they will still lose against premade - in all my pvp i have never seen any premade 4-8 with anything less than WH. You said it's fairness ? Then explain to me why a pt of 8 WH+ aug premade want to roll on un ranked ? While they know for sure that 70% they will meet BM/recruit ? For more than 2 WZ ?

[Wainamoinen]

That is 1 side...They dont have a single chance.

No it isn't "one side".

 

It's plain truth, everyone has the opportunity to improve. And the biggest obstacle is believing the "it's hopeless" propaganda.

 

Demanding that you should beat people who are much better than you as soon as you enter a competition isn't reasonable. But neither is it a no-chance scenario - until you give up: then you've lost, and won't get any better either.

 

Anyone who is honest knows that this:

Any pt with 2 recruit gears will lose against premade 4

 

...is nonsense. Teams with two recruits beat another with a 4-man all the time. If only because both sides can have two recruits and a 4-man, or do you think they both lose with absolute certainty?

 

Also, it's more like losing gives you 50 comms minimum, not at most. You might get fewer if you backfill late or afk. 80 comms is closer to the mark, and then add the daily quest comms and ranked comms. But lets say you lose four wzs at 50 comms each and get the daily (50 + 50 +50 + 50 +100 = 300 comms, & 100 ranked comms); that's the same as 100 comms for two wins for the daily (100 + 100 +100 = 300 comms, & 100 ranked comms).

 

So you get much the same comms, whether you earn the daily by winning games, losing games, or a mix of the two.

 

If you lose every game you wouldn't get the weekly - but if you play PvP every day you're going to be carried to victory enough to get that too.

 

There's more overstated weeping (8man premades in normals, every premade is all augWH, never getting on the team with a premade), but it really only proves my point about the main obstacle being in players' heads.

 

If someone beats you, pay attention to how they did it. Then copy them or work out how to stop them.

Edited December 5, 2012 by Wainamoinen

[YaanaOhtar]

No it isn't "one side".

 

It's plain truth, everyone has the opportunity to improve. And the biggest obstacle is believing the "it's hopeless" propaganda.

 

Demanding that you be able to beat people who are much better than you as soon as you enter a competition isn't reasonable. But neither is it a no-chance scenario - until you give up: then you've lost, and won't get any better either.

 

Anyone who is honest knows that this:

 

 

...is nonsense. Teams with two recruits beat another with a 4-man all the time. If only because both sides can have two recruits and a 4-man, or do you think they both lose with absolute certainty?

 

Also, it's more like losing gives you 50 comms minimum, not at most. You might get fewer if you backfill late or afk. 80 comms is closer to the mark, and then add the daily quest comms and ranked comms. But lets say you lose four wzs at 50 comms each and get the daily (50 + 50 +50 + 50 +100 = 300 comms, & 100 ranked comms); that's the same as 100 comms for two wins for the daily (100 + 100 +100 = 300 comms, & 100 ranked comms). If you lose every game you wouldn't get the weekly - but if you play PvP every day you're going to be carried to victory enough to get that too.

 

There's more overstated weeping (8man premades in normals, every premade is all augWH, never getting on the team with a premade), but it really only proves my point about the main obstacle being in players' heads.

 

If someone beats you, pay attention to how they did it. Then copy them or work out how to stop them.

 

1st 2 recruit, in PUG- do you think the rest of PUG is WH gear ? In every wz i been, 70% when 2 recruit appear, the rest is BM, may be we lucky get 2 WH. Against 4 WH+aug, let's talk math shall we ? Do you really think they are that unlucky to have 3 recruits ? So They chance they will lose is 100%, If the knowledge to play is the same.

 

2nd You have never been to a losing side aren't you ? A recruit gear in a losing side, barely able to kill 2 players. And because of their recruit gear, the damage they ditch out can't give them enough for 5 medal. So at beast they only get from 50-60 coms. Unless you want them to staying guarding ? Cause that is the only way they can get medal high than 5.

 

3rd Most premade i been only accept player with Hp higher than 17k without buff. Do you think a recruit gear can do that ? Not even the full BM dps gear could do that. Me ? i do a little trick. cause in Shadow class i have passive increase endurance, so i can get pass 17k hp without buff in my BM dps.

 

These 3 point prevent any newplayers to join in pvp. Cause 80% they will lose, 90% they will died in 20 sec touching the ground, 100% it took them 2 weeks if they pvp really hard in weekend and Sun, and 3 weeks to get full BM, and even that they still only have 30% of winning. Let's consider the odds after they get BM gear. 30% of winning, 40% of survival more than 20 sec that would give them 2 months to get to WH - i would say heavy pvper with 2k rank com a week. I would say it will discourage anyone. Well unless you're on break.

[Wainamoinen]

There's more overstated weeping... but it really only proves my point about the main obstacle being in players' heads.

 

Pretty much covers it.

 

Look, I'm not saying recruits fresh off the levelling boat are as good in PvP as veterans. Of course they aren't, and they will not be able to match them in a fight. But they can do something to help their team, and they do have the potential to be as good, if they can only avoid the trap of seeing themselves as helpless victims. The mindset that quitting is fine, premades make life impossible and gear is unattainable is untrue, damaging (to players fun) and the greatest single block to people enjoying PvP.

[YaanaOhtar]

Pretty much covers it.

 

Look, I'm not saying recruits fresh off the levelling boat are as good in PvP as veterans. Of course they aren't, and they will not be able to match them in a fight. But they can do something to help their team, and they do have the potential to be as good, if they can only avoid the trap of seeing themselves as helpless victims. The mindset that quitting is fine, premades make life impossible and gear is unattainable is untrue, damaging (to players fun) and the greatest single block to people enjoying PvP.

 

Really ? Do you play any sport ? Let's think it this way. National football team joining for City Cup ? That will be real fair isn't it ? If you want to learn to improve, you can't fight against people 10 degree higher than you. If a recuirt meet up with a BM, they could learn how to play, how to use their class. But if they meet a WH, they died in 10 sec, not a great time to use any of your abilities. (Oh gotta go to see my supervisor for lab schedule, back in 1h to talk).

[Ycoga]

I think people struggle to win when they are a pug and they face up against a premade comprised of some guild's pvp A-team, perfectly balanced and using voicecomms.

[Veniras]

no one can argue their Cross Realm, Robust Matchmaking System, and Split queue system work great. This is what we need as well, all three.

 

The devs have stated that it is NOT COMING. Deal with it.

[Technohic]

Really ? Do you play any sport ? Let's think it this way. National football team joining for City Cup ? That will be real fair isn't it ? If you want to learn to improve, you can't fight against people 10 degree higher than you. If a recuirt meet up with a BM, they could learn how to play, how to use their class. But if they meet a WH, they died in 10 sec, not a great time to use any of your abilities. (Oh gotta go to see my supervisor for lab schedule, back in 1h to talk).

 

This is a terrible analogy. It would be more like if it were 2 pro-football teams and one was full or rookies while the other team is a veteran team, and then their would have to be some sort of "gear gap" to prove your point, but I cannot think of one for football here.

 

There is also another exaggeration of you not seeing that you will not be the rookies forever, and you will have some veterans on your team a good bit of the time with the better gear. And you also will be more likely than not to face another team that has both veterans and rookies just like you and every rookie can move a little close to being a veteran with better gear each time, even with a loss.

 

I took a sniper toon to its first 50 last Tuesday, and I have to tell you; you win some and you lose some but you get yours and it is not much unlike sub-50 TBH. Sometimes you get rolled. Sometimes you don't, but if you play objectives, outside of my very first match I have got at least 3 medals and after the first day, I would say most of the time I get to at least 8. I also ran into a premade in Huttball; which is the king of organized PvP and I got 8 even while we got smoked. You know what though? Been in sub-50 where a premade rolled through. Big deal. What I found funny was half way through the match, someone said "It's a premade. no sense sticking around." and quit. That was stupid seeing as you are already half way to getting your comms you would get.

 

Look people. It is not going to kill you to lose and you can still make progress while doing so here. Just hang in there and relax. If you are running into a premade a lot; I would finish the match that I am doing and do something else if I had something else I was working on for a while if it bothered me so much. The premade will be done doing their thing by then most the time, but I typically just keep queuing and doing what I can, getting what I can. Just remind yourself it is just a game and it doesn't matter if you win or lose; even if you don't get any medals, so long as you are learning a thing or 2 about what you are doing or even how the premade is doing things.

[Beakertanks]

If you havent recieved any new gear in 3 months, then You are either A) fully geared or B) not really playing. This thread is legit in the fast that there IS something broken in the PvP system, and if you can't see this... well then I guess Ignorance really is bliss. if you are able to start the season out with everyone else, then its not so big a deal. The problem is you get people who hit 50 later in the game, or for other reasons are just coming back to the game, and get ran over by full groups in Elite War Hero armor. If you are in recruit gear its damned near impossible to kill someone in EWH gear. Plain and simple. And for you to come in here and attempt to lord over other players is disgusting. Plain and simple. It really shows the character of YOUR true self and your ACTUAL self worth by saying the stupid **** you did.

 

So this is a gear discussion??

I am not fully geared. Mostly yes, fully no.

I find that while gear is an important factor, the lack of comprehension of how to actually conduct a warzone is more important. I often beat opposing teams who are better geared because they are a disorganized pug and I am rolling with three friends in Team Speak. Don't get me wrong gear discrepency can be a major fun killer, but that is not what this thread is about is it?

 

Lording over people? Dude, you are taking yourself waaaay too seriously

[Vladnar]

Organised teams thrashing pug teams is no fun for anyone, and ive seen plenty of both sides to know this but more compensation comes with winning with far less feeling miserable but both lead you to feeling you are simply wasting your time.

 

Everybody wants good even fun warzones that go to the wire, not teams you just roll over, thats where the excitment comes from.

 

A better organised ranked for those that want to team up and play with other ranked, perhaps teams of 4 could join up with others or 8's go alone and they get ranked points.

 

A completely seperate pug system with individual queue makes much more sense and thats where the variety, luck and seriously fun battles are going to be happening, and they need wz comms with some ranked purchaseable and earned same as now.

 

This seems like the only sensible solution to me cos either side lets be honest, its currently a tad more than naff.

 

Thanks

 

ps, Im not sure what fun it could be for people who are....ok we need 3 rage slammers and 2 op healers and one jugg to carry or hold a flag and......omg then you play against a pug team with 7 underpowered sorcs or something its a joke, really.

[chaosmadness]

I think the PVP its not balanced as it should be in this game and BW need do some changes...

 

Why ?

 

Well, whats the point have in the same warzone players in Recruit gear and others in Elite War Hero gear ??

 

Sorry, but for me this is not PVP balanced..

Edited December 5, 2012 by chaosmadness

[TheBigBee]

This is a terrible analogy.

 

Yea it was....

[Technohic]

I think the PVP its not balanced as it should be in this game and BW need do some changes...

 

Why ?

 

Well, whats the point have in the same warzone players in Recruit gear and others in Elite War Hero gear ??

 

Sorry, but for me this is not PVP balanced..

 

What would you have? Everyone wear the same thing?

 

The thing is, this is an MMO; so while your CODs and the likes out there will give you equal gear, they are meant to keep your interest a few months, then they release a new game. MMOs are expected to last several years with basically the same release persisting. The way they do that is by having gear progression and the next carrot to chase, so you wind up with different gear for people to try to earn over time.

[TheBigBee]

I think the PVP its not balanced as it should be in this game and BW need do some changes...

 

Why ?

 

Well, whats the point have in the same warzone players in Recruit gear and others in Elite War Hero gear ??

 

Sorry, but for me this is not PVP balanced..

 

What does gear have to do with premades???????????????????????????????

[chaosmadness]

What does gear have to do with premades???????????????????????????????

 

In my opinion, premades should play in a specifique warzone AKA Ranked warzones.

Normal warzones should be for solo queues...

With that changes PVP gets more fun. If we continue have premades in normal warzones PVP never gonna be balanced in this game.

 

Its the true.

Edited December 5, 2012 by chaosmadness

[Pvtcarnage]

I haven't received a new piece of PvP gear in over 3 months. 3 MONTHS. And I still can get three buddies together and win more than I lose. YOU. PEOPLE. WHINE. TOO. MUCH. Seriously. I find this PvP thread disturbing. If this thread is an accurate reflection of the current state of affairs in western society then the doom of our time is at hand.

 

By the way if you don't like premades in Regular Warzones why don't you recommend they increase the awards for Rateds....Oh wait then you would just complain about how unfair it is that people who do rateds get gear so much quicker.

 

People hate to lose, but apparently they hate doing any self improvement to fix the problem even more.

 

Generally I find the people who whine about warzones don't know the difference between Tactics and Tacitus. Think a Hot Key is what you use to start the flame thingy on the stove so they can cook their Kraft Macaroni and Cheese. And feel that somehow their win loss record in warzones with lightsabers actually provides an accurate reflection of their true self worth.

 

+100 Kudos

[Pvtcarnage]

If you havent recieved any new gear in 3 months, then You are either A) fully geared or B) not really playing. This thread is legit in the fast that there IS something broken in the PvP system, and if you can't see this... well then I guess Ignorance really is bliss. if you are able to start the season out with everyone else, then its not so big a deal. The problem is you get people who hit 50 later in the game, or for other reasons are just coming back to the game, and get ran over by full groups in Elite War Hero armor. If you are in recruit gear its damned near impossible to kill someone in EWH gear. Plain and simple. And for you to come in here and attempt to lord over other players is disgusting. Plain and simple. It really shows the character of YOUR true self and your ACTUAL self worth by saying the stupid **** you did.

 

Gear gap is bieng fixed in 1.6, your point?

[Jadescythe]

So this is a gear discussion??

I am not fully geared. Mostly yes, fully no.

I find that while gear is an important factor, the lack of comprehension of how to actually conduct a warzone is more important. I often beat opposing teams who are better geared because they are a disorganized pug and I am rolling with three friends in Team Speak. Don't get me wrong gear discrepency can be a major fun killer, but that is not what this thread is about is it?

 

Lording over people? Dude, you are taking yourself waaaay too seriously

 

You seem to have mistyped your gear in this post then, since you said you have a full WH set with augments. Perhaps you should stop changing your facts to support your position in different threads and allow those with actual opinions to have a discussion.

 

Also, you spent millions twinking a character and refuse to hit 50 according to the same post. Your opinions on PVP don't matter.

[Pvtcarnage]

That is 1 side. Another side is newly 50 with recruit gear against premade. What lesson should they learn to win against premade ? Nothing. They dont have a single chance. Any pt with 2 recruit gears will lose against premade 4, and i dont want to start on 8. If you keep losing, or got killed in 20 sec touching the battle ground, would you able to learn anything beside farming better gear ? And losing only give them 50 medal at best. It would take weeks for them to get full BM and even that they will still lose against premade - in all my pvp i have never seen any premade 4-8 with anything less than WH. You said it's fairness ? Then explain to me why a pt of 8 WH+ aug premade want to roll on un ranked ? While they know for sure that 70% they will meet BM/recruit ? For more than 2 WZ ?

 

Any game that you don't start at launch you will behind, and anyone with a few brain cells will learn and improve, not all premades are created equal and then there will be the times they are grouped with premades.

 

Some of the crud throw out here really stinks of people that played pewee leagues the did not track score and everyone one is a winner. Such a sad state of affairs.

[YaanaOhtar]

This is a terrible analogy. It would be more like if it were 2 pro-football teams and one was full or rookies while the other team is a veteran team, and then their would have to be some sort of "gear gap" to prove your point, but I cannot think of one for football here.

 

There is also another exaggeration of you not seeing that you will not be the rookies forever, and you will have some veterans on your team a good bit of the time with the better gear. And you also will be more likely than not to face another team that has both veterans and rookies just like you and every rookie can move a little close to being a veteran with better gear each time, even with a loss.

 

I took a sniper toon to its first 50 last Tuesday, and I have to tell you; you win some and you lose some but you get yours and it is not much unlike sub-50 TBH. Sometimes you get rolled. Sometimes you don't, but if you play objectives, outside of my very first match I have got at least 3 medals and after the first day, I would say most of the time I get to at least 8. I also ran into a premade in Huttball; which is the king of organized PvP and I got 8 even while we got smoked. You know what though? Been in sub-50 where a premade rolled through. Big deal. What I found funny was half way through the match, someone said "It's a premade. no sense sticking around." and quit. That was stupid seeing as you are already half way to getting your comms you would get.

 

Look people. It is not going to kill you to lose and you can still make progress while doing so here. Just hang in there and relax. If you are running into a premade a lot; I would finish the match that I am doing and do something else if I had something else I was working on for a while if it bothered me so much. The premade will be done doing their thing by then most the time, but I typically just keep queuing and doing what I can, getting what I can. Just remind yourself it is just a game and it doesn't matter if you win or lose; even if you don't get any medals, so long as you are learning a thing or 2 about what you are doing or even how the premade is doing things.

 

Nop; My comparison is correct, if you included teamspeak to order healing- protect healer - inc .

 

I put in the percentage to see the chance of winning and losing for the newbie. I've been in pvp and 60 to 70% time i met premade WH+aug.

 

Seeing you as a sniper; i would say Imp has it more easier than Rep - though this could be wrong -. I'm with BMs + Elite WH hand and off hand, i play as DPS with ability to guard do you know how much medal i got when facing premade ? 7 medals. If i'm guarding then i could get 10 medals. But that are classes with tank spec so they can earn defend point. I dont know how you can earn 8 medals with recruit gears damage against WH gears without guarding the object and when your team got creamed.

 

It's fine to do like that. joining 4 wz getting 60-70 coms each. But it kill the pvp. People will rolling it just to get the coms. And what about learning how to play your class in pvp when you killed in 20 sec touching the ground. It's a game. Of course, just like Olympic, all fun and peace. Until the U.S basket ball national team cream the whole Basket ball event, since then the U.S only let their university team to go for Olympic basket ball.

 

Point is, Why premade WH+aug want to fight against PUG ? with 70% they will meet under gear team ? ( Since i'm only in Rep i could only name Empire player in Progenitor server, Exo-dus and his groups, can't remember all the weird name in online game ). And these action discourage new player want to join in pvp. They will think like you:" Just joining for 4 game then quit ". The Wz is where player compete each others, when this become "no competition" there will be no competitors.

[Vladnar]

Pug for random pug wz's, it doesn't stop people pressing the queue button at exactly the same time and they may still end up in the same group but at least itd all be more entertaining than it is now..........either way win or lose id rather it was closer.

[YaanaOhtar]

Any game that you don't start at launch you will behind, and anyone with a few brain cells will learn and improve, not all premades are created equal and then there will be the times they are grouped with premades.

 

Some of the crud throw out here really stinks of people that played pewee leagues the did not track score and everyone one is a winner. Such a sad state of affairs.

 

So PUG are pewee leagues ? Then answer freaking why so pro premade 8 WH+aug like to roll on our pewee league ? Keep rolling in there days after days ? What does that make those guys ?

 

If you are so pro. Stick to your pro league. No want beg you to come to our pewee league.

[Pvtcarnage]

Nop; My comparison is correct, if you included teamspeak to order healing- protect healer - inc .

 

I put in the percentage to see the chance of winning and losing for the newbie. I've been in pvp and 60 to 70% time i met premade WH+aug.

 

Seeing you as a sniper; i would say Imp has it more easier than Rep - though this could be wrong -. I'm with BMs + Elite WH hand and off hand, i play as DPS with ability to guard do you know how much medal i got when facing premade ? 7 medals. If i'm guarding then i could get 10 medals. But that are classes with tank spec so they can earn defend point. I dont know how you can earn 8 medals with recruit gears damage against WH gears without guarding the object and when your team got creamed.

 

It's fine to do like that. joining 4 wz getting 60-70 coms each. But it kill the pvp. People will rolling it just to get the coms. And what about learning how to play your class in pvp when you killed in 20 sec touching the ground. It's a game. Of course, just like Olympic, all fun and peace. Until the U.S basket ball national team cream the whole Basket ball event, since then the U.S only let their university team to go for Olympic basket ball.

 

Point is, Why premade WH+aug want to fight against PUG ? with 70% they will meet under gear team ? ( Since i'm only in Rep i could only name Empire player in Progenitor server, Exo-dus and his groups, can't remember all the weird name in online game ). And these action discourage new player want to join in pvp. They will think like you:" Just joining for 4 game then quit ". The Wz is where player compete each others, when this become "no competition" there will be no competitors.

 

Stop making up numbers will you? you can't inspect enemy players and with the ability to swap gear guts it not that easy to tell what people have. All you can do is look at health. If your are constantly getting facerolled then maybe your server is not balanced with skilled players. I never run into the situations you mention enough for it to be a concern on my server.

 

And most premades are a group of friends playing together having fun and getting gear (not all premades are decked out) And I have yet to see premade folks coming here and claiming that they like easy-mode. You will have to wait for BW to implement it's match making. Premades are here to stay and if people are smart there will only be more.