Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

[nrevox]

instead of /whisper to people to uninstall, what about whisper them actual good advice. No one comes in an expert on their class or advanced strategy. I got taught by guildies, I learned a lot on my own. I dueled a lot of people to learn about my class as well.

 

The problem, IMO, is people like you that are toxic to the average to below average pvper. if the pvp community wants a lot of stuff, then I think they need to step up their game on the interpersonal level. There are people on the other side, it might be their 1st wz, or maybe they've pvped for a while and no one has ever taken the time to help them. Maybe if the so-called elites, took the time to help people we'd have a much more vibrant diverse an fun pvp community.

 

this all day.

[Tellenn]

Where's the incentive for players to get better?

Where's the incentive for the better pvp guilds/premades to help players improve?

 

pvp is a solo side quest. You get rewards if you win or lose.

 

Theres no reason to help others on your faction because factions are meaningless.

Theres no reason to get more groups together in your guild because guild vs guild pvp is meaningless.

All that matters is your own personal performance and the fact that others can hold you back ofcourse makes the community unwelcoming. Bioware made a gamemode that is to its core self centred.

 

Plenty of pvp mmos are the exact opposite with welcoming communities. The games have reasons to help though. Whether its with faction vs faction conquest or guild leaderboards. swtor lacks any mechanic. Its every man for himself.

 

I hoped conquest might become something like this but again its more solo side quests that divide what little community the game has.

Edited September 5, 2014 by Tellenn

[Technohic]

Where's the incentive for players to get better?

Where's the incentive for the better pvp guilds/premades to help players improve?

 

pvp is a solo side quest. You get rewards if you win or lose.

 

Theres no reason to help others on your faction because factions are meaningless.

Theres no reason to get more groups together in your guild because guild vs guild pvp is meaningless.

All that matters is your own personal performance and the fact that others can hold you back ofcourse makes the community unwelcoming. Bioware made a gamemode that is to its core self centred.

 

I will admit that this discourages me from playing after being frustrated a lot when I do solo Q by just sheer dumb play, but I try not to ever berate someone; I would get mad at times. I just don't find it fun and that's also why I've always kind of have kept away from competitive gaming. Used to play a game that I went to tournaments for, pre-internet, but once I get going, being competitive can consume me to where maybe I just take it a little too seriously if i let it. And I think that might be a big reason why I like the larger scale PvP in other games. You just don't notice the bad play when its a bit more saturated and it is the opposite of competitive. You want to win the day, sure; but you just die and go back to fighting until you have your fill.

[nrevox]

Where's the incentive for players to get better?

Where's the incentive for the better pvp guilds/premades to help players improve?

 

pvp is a solo side quest. You get rewards if you win or lose.

 

Theres no reason to help others on your faction because factions are meaningless.

Theres no reason to get more groups together in your guild because guild vs guild pvp is meaningless.

All that matters is your own personal performance and the fact that others can hold you back ofcourse makes the community unwelcoming. Bioware made a gamemode that is to its core self centred.

 

Plenty of pvp mmos are the exact opposite with welcoming communities. The games have reasons to help though. Whether its with faction vs faction conquest or guild leaderboards. swtor lacks any mechanic. Its every man for himself.

 

I hoped conquest might become something like this but again its more solo side quests that divide what little community the game has.

 

 

exactly. where is the incentive for a casual player to want to keep queuing or learn when they get steam rolled by a fully geared organized truck? Lol.

 

Organized grouping is definitely needed for ranked. No doubt.

But there should be a place that fresh 55's can work on their tactics, gear, and skills in wz's. Right now, REGs queue is not it. And its definitely not lowbie or mid pvp because you don't have your full skills through most of that until you pass 50 or so. You get yelled at your very first match for being undergeared by your own team, then hit by a mack truck by the enemy. Nobody can deny this doesn't happen every single day in reg pvp.

[Technohic]

exactly. where is the incentive for a casual player to want to keep queuing or learn when they get steam rolled by a fully geared organized truck? Lol.

 

Organized grouping is definitely needed for ranked. No doubt.

But there should be a place that fresh 55's can work on their tactics, gear, and skills in wz's. Right now, REGs queue is not it. And its definitely not lowbie or mid pvp because you don't have your full skills through most of that until you pass 50 or so. You get yelled at your very first match for being undergeared by your own team, then hit by a mack truck by the enemy. Nobody can deny this doesn't happen every single day in reg pvp.

 

That truck isn't so organized and nor does it have to be to steamroll you when your first venture into PvP is at level 55.

 

Thats part of what people have been trying to tell you. You are literally talking about not being AS GOOD as your opponents. Premade or not.

[StormTerminus]

I am basically a middling bad pvper, I am better than people who don't care to do any prep work but against people with skill I dye. JessicaRabbit on Harbinger kills me nearly every time. I queue on Republic side of Harbinger. I do about 70% solo queuing and 30% with guildies in Voice Chat. I do get frustrated when I am up against a block of 4-5 enemies who stick together and use a VG/Shadow pull to yank me into their scrum and move on. But that only seems to be an issue in Huttball. In NC, Ald, and voidstar it is easy enough to participate and help the team without massive frustration.

 

And when it gets to that point where your team is overmatched you can still annoy the heck out of them by stopping caps, stealthing caps or whatever. And in the worst cases it is over quickly right?

 

I find PvP enjoyable now that I have done it enough to know most of the maps. My issue is with huttball since accommodating the extra ability is annoying. Maybe my new setup will do better with a Razor Naga on the way. Additionally I found that playing with a PvP designed class helps, my Shadow is much more survivable and enjoyable to play in PvP than my Sage.

[funkiestj]

I do about 70% solo queuing and 30% with guildies in Voice Chat. I do get frustrated when I am up against a block of 4-5 enemies who stick together and use a VG/Shadow pull to yank me into their scrum and move on.

 

ask your sage to yank you back.

[StormTerminus]

ask your sage to yank you back.

Personally I don't find premades a problem. And when I do it is because I am solo. I am sorry that wasn't clear.

[nrevox]

That truck isn't so organized and nor does it have to be to steamroll you when your first venture into PvP is at level 55.

 

Thats part of what people have been trying to tell you. You are literally talking about not being AS GOOD as your opponents. Premade or not.

 

Grouping with voice coordination gives you an advantage. That is undeniable. If the group is ungeared, then it might not be so bad. But if they are fully geared? Hello! That is the truck I am talking about. There are some very organized trucks. I see them all the time. To say they don't exist and that they don't camp at spawn sites is simply denial. Being GOOD? There are a lot of good players that have the same arguments. Just because you don't like the current set up doesn't mean you aren't any good. All im saying is "Don't complain about slow queues if you aren't willing to acknowledge WHY they are slow". You may not agree with addressing them, but the reasons are there.

[CaraExas]

exactly. where is the incentive for a casual player to want to keep queuing or learn when they get steam rolled by a fully geared organized truck? Lol.

 

Organized grouping is definitely needed for ranked. No doubt.

But there should be a place that fresh 55's can work on their tactics, gear, and skills in wz's. Right now, REGs queue is not it. And its definitely not lowbie or mid pvp because you don't have your full skills through most of that until you pass 50 or so. You get yelled at your very first match for being undergeared by your own team, then hit by a mack truck by the enemy. Nobody can deny this doesn't happen every single day in reg pvp.

this entire line of thinking is whats wrong with most of the player base.

 

 

quit speed leveling kuat and thinking your ready to move to any content what so ever.

[nrevox]

this entire line of thinking is whats wrong with most of the player base.

 

 

quit speed leveling kuat and thinking your ready to move to any content what so ever.

 

Denial is what's wrong with the loud minority of the player base.

 

I always level in pvp and blaze through story just to get it out of the way. On 6 servers and also 2 European. I could care less about kuat.

[Tellenn]

this entire line of thinking is whats wrong with most of the player base.

 

 

quit speed leveling kuat and thinking your ready to move to any content what so ever.

 

Leveling in swtor is too fast for players without pvp experience to get it. They are pretty much locked into a carebear pve game system though. Add to the lack of any sort of owpvp and the amount of pvp you do before reaching endgame s tiny.

 

Valor should be the thing that separates tier not level.

[jaxxxster]

I'm done with this random group versus premade group crap in pvp. If you wanna group, have a battle plan, vent/mumble that's great but you need to play against another premade group not against a random group. I don't care if your wait time is long it's not a fair paring. BIO needs to queue groups against groups, individual against individuals. PvP is the only thing left in the game I find interesting and it's ruined when you get a score of 6 to 0 in huttball because the other group is a premade.

 

Another one of these guys. First...ITS AN MMO....do u know what that means or implies? I run premades a lot.....with my friends and people in my guild. WE DO IT FOR FUN, no battle plans, NO VOICE COMM.....and yes we do get beat. Here is your solution......MAKE A FRIGGIN FRIEND OR TWO AND FORM A GROUP...GASP!!! Throw a message out in general chat....get other singles to group. Seriously man, learn to interact with people its not hard.

[Raansu]

Another one of these guys. First...ITS AN MMO....do u know what that means or implies? I run premades a lot.....with my friends and people in my guild. WE DO IT FOR FUN, no battle plans, NO VOICE COMM.....and yes we do get beat. Here is your solution......MAKE A FRIGGIN FRIEND OR TWO AND FORM A GROUP...GASP!!! Throw a message out in general chat....get other singles to group. Seriously man, learn to interact with people its not hard.

 

This concept goes over the head of the new WoW generation of MMO players. These guys would never survive in old school MMO's. Those days were awesome. True communities.

[Kalispa]

And why Raansu are you so scared to let (those of us that are either more causal players or socially challenged) us have a solo vs solo only que. You say you are not scared but all you do is rage against. Your actions show your true colors.

[Raansu]

And why Raansu are you so scared to let (those of us that are either more causal players or socially challenged) us have a solo vs solo only que. You say you are not scared but all you do is rage against. Your actions show your true colors.

 

No, I'm just being honest. You also have the option to be in a group but you choose not to. Not our fault that your decide to be anti social in a damn MMO.

 

Without cross server I am 100% against further splitting the queues, especially to appease a bunch of solo queue players who will still run into matches where they get completely destroyed because they refuse to get better cuz "casual" is their reasoning even though you don't need to be "hardcore" to learn basic things like *********** keybinding and simple PAYING ATTENTION to what is going on in the warzone. Too many pugs completely ignore things like marked players, don't taunt at all, run off the node to "help" the other idiot fighting in the middle of the map then get capped on etc....

 

Splitting the queue's wont fix your problems, it will just make the queue's longer causing even more people to leave the game. Why don't you pugs fix your problems first like learning the damn basics then worry about the big bad "premade" of 4 players on an 8 man team.

 

And what about people that run in groups of two players only? Are they just forever screwed because you don't like to make friends? More often than not I just run with me and one other person rather than a full 4 man group.

[Kalispa]

The main issue you're going to deal with here, if solo only queue is implemented is that guild would queue sync, and if they didn't get the same pop, they'd just leave. Thus you'd have a rash of wz's starting undermanned. And that's just as bad, almost worse than what people consider the pre-made issue. Starting 4v8 is a disaster, esp in a pug. The match will be over in the 1st minute.

 

The other thing you are not taking into consideration is you are talking about pulling the rug out from under them. Or in other words, you don't want them to basically play. You are therefore asking BW to alienate some of their more hardcore players, that are subbed and bring actual money to the game. How is this good. Piss off a significant amount of your hardcore players so they quit.... yeah that an intelligent business decision.....

 

Anya maybe you missed the part about the quit cd timer, and the solo vs solo would only be implemented as an option the player could select, such as the join in progress option for pve fp and ops.

[Kalispa]

Raansu you rant the same thing over and over again, and I'll I ever see and hear is you cowering in the corners if you where ever denied the ability to go pug stomp with your buddies to make up for you RL short comings!

[Tellenn]

Raansu you rant the same thing over and over again, and I'll I ever see and hear is you cowering in the corners if you where ever denied the ability to go pug stomp with your buddies to make up for you RL short comings!

 

Being in a pre doesnt make you worse. It doesn't make you better either.

Most of the best players solo. The problem is most of the worst do too.

[shyroman]

Raansu you rant the same thing over and over again, and I'll I ever see and hear is you cowering in the corners if you where ever denied the ability to go pug stomp with your buddies to make up for you RL short comings!

 

There are bad premades that good ones will stomp on and there are good solo players that will stomp on bad players, the only thing that will change is queue times, if you really think that solo players won't still quit games that they will be stomped on then you are wrong. You also can't grasp the concept that not all people group to pug stomp, lots group because they enjoy playing with friends.

[sanchito]

What should be done imo is match groups by account valor, and if it can't find a proper match after 5 minutes, match whatever there is as good as possible and start the game. On low pop servers and during off hours the queues would be like 3 minutes longer on average, and during prime time the games would be significantly better.

 

If you match a top premade against the 8 most experienced players in the queue during prime time the premade might still win, but it's certainly not going to stomp, and an average premade from a f2p or pve guild is no better than any 4 randoms that decide to queue solo, there is totally no point in separating the queues.

[Raansu]

What should be done imo is match groups by account valor, and if it can't find a proper match after 5 minutes, match whatever there is as good as possible and start the game. On low pop servers and during off hours the queues would be like 3 minutes longer on average, and during prime time the games would be significantly better.

 

If you match a top premade against the 8 most experienced players in the queue during prime time the premade might still win, but it's certainly not going to stomp, and an average premade from a f2p or pve guild is no better than any 4 randoms that decide to queue solo, there is totally no point in separating the queues.

 

Except valor is kind of a worthless stat in regards to determining skill.

[Raansu]

Raansu you rant the same thing over and over again, and I'll I ever see and hear is you cowering in the corners if you where ever denied the ability to go pug stomp with your buddies to make up for you RL short comings!

 

Oh please, I do my fair share of solo queuing and I tend to double my entire teams dps. Bads are bads, no amount of matchmaking will fix how terrible you are.

[sanchito]

Except valor is kind of a worthless stat in regards to determining skill.

 

it's not a very good stat ofc but it's better than none at all, and the only one we have...and most people do get better the more they play

[jaxxxster]

Listen.....separate solo ques are a good idea but will not work for 1 important reason.......POOR POPULATION. Those 2 words prevent this game from expanding and offering a variety of options. Its really too bad, BW/EA literally chased away there paying subscription player base over the last couple of years. Who remembers that first month when there was almost 2 full servers, all were either HEAVY POP or FULL......you would log on to a que and have to wait a few minutes to actually get in........game was packed with sooooo many great people. Then 1.2 came and the rest is history