Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

[TridusSWTOR]

No one cares about some stupid made up beach with some ***** kid who won't play volleyball.

And yes its a dumb analogy.

 

You must be slow. Go re-read and stop trolling my thread.

 

Begone with you.

 

You have been debunked.

[frankiejo]

Building sand castles is not a group activity. How can you compare it to solo queuing for warzones, which requires 8 people? The only way this works is if volleyball is PvP and you either allow or deny people the opportunity to play volleyball based on whether they are playing with people they know. Based on your posts in this thread, only people who went to the beach alone can play. Building a sand castle would be like leveling an alt, which the groups will then have to do instead if they can't get another game going.

naw dude your fixating on the wrong aspects of the analogy, it actually makes sense if you think about it. He's saying two eight man groups of competitive players fighting one another is like volley ball, everyone is playing hard to win. And then he's contrasting it to running around dropping bads who are fleeing like chickens with their heads cut off to building sand castles, as in it's the kind of activity you might enjoy if you weren't interested in a challenge. Of course his logic doesn't take into consideration that you can't help who you're matched against, and it's not your fault if you and your friends play to win, but the analogy makes sense.

[Sharee]

Building sand castles is not a group activity.

 

Say what?

[TridusSWTOR]

Alright, I had some faith in you. I no longer do.

 

If you can't see the difference in comparing a group of players who want to do something everyone is doing but without certain players, to a kid who wants to play sand castles by himself you're either blind, stupid, or stubborn. I'm going to guess stubborn.

 

Good day sir.

 

Even when someone lays it out in the most basic of forms you can't comprehend the representation. It was a very good break down and pretty much hit the nail on the head. Oh wait it doesn't agree with you, so therefore it's bad though, right? Good logic there.

 

I'm honestly not sure at this point whether or not it's out of ignorance or refusing to admit that you have always been wrong? Probably both now that i think about it.

 

I love when he keeps posting, because I know at anytime I can pretty much utterly destroy any point he makes. Which I have done so many times in the past.

 

Fun fact- This guy wants you to leave the game if you don't agree with him.

[TridusSWTOR]

Building sand castles is not a group activity.

 

Wow.

 

Just wow.

 

You really just type that? I'm seeing things.

[Boch]

It's okay. The example wasn't meant for you. I understand it may have been too complicated to comprehend for some.

 

Then you should of sent a private message. There is no complexity to it. Its just an awfully thought out analogy as doom has shown in multiple posts.

[Sharee]

Then you should of sent a private message. There is no complexity to it. Its just an awfully thought out analogy as doom has shown in multiple posts.

 

It was a reply to a post made on public forum. So it was public as well. I completely understand if you don't want to read it tho. Feel free not to next time.

 

And no, Doom did not show how awful that analogy is, neither in multiple posts, nor in one. He just tripped over his own feet desperately trying to find a fault where there is none.

Edited July 11, 2013 by Sharee

[Jadescythe]

Say what?

 

I'll rephrase. It is not specifically a group activity as you can build a sand castle entirely alone. Or with 2 people. Or with 6 people. Or with 900 people.

 

Either way, you can't have 2 completely different activities and call it an analogy to warzones. Warzones have 1 purpose, whether you have premades or PUGs. For example, the goal of Civil War is to shoot down the enemy ship. The end goals of building sand castles or playing volleyball are completely different. Ergo, this analogy makes no sense.

 

You can say that people find different aspects of the warzone fun, but the winner remains the same regardless of what they find fun. Are you suggesting that people joining volleyball games are doing so to build a sand castles (pugs joining the queue right now)? Which begs the question, would they give them a "sand castle making" volleyball league (solo queue) or would they tell them to find another activity that is geared towards their end goal choice (not play warzones if they don't want to play team objectives)?

[Doomsdaycomes]

Why by himself? As i pointed out earlier, you can instead put in multiple kids building that castle, it does not change the point of the example.

 

If you cannot see the similarity in comparing a group of premades demanding that solo-queuers play with them in a warzone to a group of volleyball players demanding that the castle builders play with them on the beach you're either blind, stupid, or stubborn. And i only wrote that because you used the same words. No offense.

 

Taking someone's life is wrong. I can give you a hundred reasons why it's wrong, from loss of life, morality, spirituality etc...

 

But a man breaks into your house, smashes your stuff, says he's going to kill you, and comes at you with a knife. In the scuffle you take the knife and kill the man. The police show up and arrest you.

 

You ask why? You defended yourself, the man had a clear intent to kill you.

 

The Police officer says "Doesn't matter, taking someone's life is wrong."

 

^

 

The above is taking a black-white moral concept (it's wrong to force people to do something they don't want, or it's wrong to kill) and applying it to a situation with vastly different circumstances.

 

Players want to PvP but not against X Players.

Kid doesn't want to Play Volley ball.

 

Two completely different circumstances, of which the latter is irrelevant to the former and current real life situation.

[maverickmatt]

Then you should of sent a private message. There is no complexity to it. Its just an awfully thought out analogy as doom has shown in multiple posts.

 

Debunk this, then...

 

You're at a racetrack with your Prius.

There are several others there with similar cars (maybe a Taurus, or like a... Fiesta or something).

At the same track there are a group of people with Ferraris and Corvettes, and various other supercars.

 

What person in their right mind would want to race a Ferrari with a Prius? Nobody..

 

You, and all the other regular-car-having people want to engage in a friendly race.

 

Suddenly, you get whacked in the head with a tire iron.. WHAM!!

 

The Supercar owners don't want you to have a separate race, because it will "increase their wait time".

 

How silly....

[UncelSam]

Premades vs Premades (challangeing playing for those who cant walk 1 meter with a pal (medic) to hold on to)

 

and

 

PUG vs PUG (total random FUN playing!)

 

Whats your choise?

[hallucigenocide]

premades comes with the territory.. it does'nt really bother me if the rest of my team is up for the challenge.. i've beaten quite a few of them with pugs.. and seriously there are bigger issues with the current state of pvp than premades.

[cycao]

Premades vs Premades (challangeing playing for those who cant walk 1 meter with a pal (medic) to hold on to)

 

and

 

PUG vs PUG (total random FUN playing!)

 

Whats your choise?

 

Matchmaking?

 

All I can say is I'm on pins and needles awaiting to see how the solo ranked works out.

[Sharee]

The above is taking a black-white moral concept (it's wrong to force people to do something they don't want, or it's wrong to kill) and applying it to a situation with vastly different circumstances.

 

Players want to PvP but not against X Players.

Kid doesn't want to Play Volley ball.

 

Two completely different circumstances, of which the latter is irrelevant to the former and current real life situation.

 

Completely different?

 

Both represents a player not wanting to engage in an activity. The point of the example is to show why it is wrong to require someone to engage in an activity he does not enjoy just so others can have fun.

 

Requiring a sandcastle builder(or a group of sandcastle builders) to instead play volleyball which they do not want to, just so that the volleyball players have enough players for a game, is just as wrong as requiring a group of solo-queuers to face premades which they do not want to, just so that premades have enough players for a game. (the 'we can not allow solo queue because there wouldn't be enough players for the group queue' argument)

 

Noone would ever think of making a kid on the beach do something he does not want to do, just so others can have their fun. Because that would be bullying. Same applies to swtor.

[Doomsdaycomes]

Debunk this, then...

 

You're at a racetrack with your Prius.

There are several others there with similar cars (maybe a Taurus, or like a... Fiesta or something).

At the same track there are a group of people with Ferraris and Corvettes, and various other supercars.

 

What person in their right mind would want to race a Ferrari with a Prius? Nobody..

 

You, and all the other regular-car-having people want to engage in a friendly race.

 

Suddenly, you get whacked in the head with a tire iron.. WHAM!!

 

The Supercar owners don't want you to have a separate race, because it will "increase their wait time".

 

How silly....

 

Still a not a great analogy/example.

 

First, the assumption is that the racers with normal cars have/had little to no ability to get better cars when the other racers did.

 

Second, there's some regular racers who race against Premium car racers without complaint or issue.

 

Third, doesn't cover the logistical problems that our situation would suffer. It's not a simple "I don't want my time to go up," as much as it's a problem of filling, back filling, match forming, etc...

 

Fourth, doesn't cover that there's currently a shared space (racetrack) and in order for Normal car racers to have their "casual" race, the shared space and time has to be split.

 

Fifth, those who don't want to race against Premium cars still want all the benefits of racing.

 

Finally, the biggest problem that is left out most often:

 

Another option exists:

 

I know you've mentioned support of matchmaking, but in neither analogy is the "Castle-maker" or the "Normal Car Racer" given another option with less problems, that is all inclusive, as fair as possible... and then turns it down.

 

Which is the exact situation here. Some solo-centric players decided this isn't fun (not all). They want their own special race track no matter the costs/issues it causes other players, and given another option they refuse it. (Not you per say)

[Doomsdaycomes]

*Snip*

 

Then people who kill in self defense go to jail with those who killed for money.

 

They both killed someone, same thing.

[Sharee]

Then people who kill in self defense go to jail with those who killed for money.

 

They both killed someone, same thing.

 

And you accuse me of making bad examples? Oh boy

[Technohic]

Matchmaking?

 

All I can say is I'm on pins and needles awaiting to see how the solo ranked works out.

 

Yeah. Not sure how that will work. Sometimes, even if you get put on a team with good players, you just don't mesh well. I know I wind up doing worse if I start trying to get outside my role due to no one else really having the ability to either. Can't even imagine the class that people will show to their teammates either when rating is on the line.

[cycao]

Yeah. Not sure how that will work. Sometimes, even if you get put on a team with good players, you just don't mesh well. I know I wind up doing worse if I start trying to get outside my role due to no one else really having the ability to either. Can't even imagine the class that people will show to their teammates either when rating is on the line.

 

Yeah I honestly think that even if they have had plans to split the queues that they will hold off to see how a solo ranked would work.

[Sharee]

Solo ranked would be ideal. If they manage to pull that one off, i'll be all happy.

[Doomsdaycomes]

And you accuse me of making bad examples? Oh boy

 

Why is that a bad example?

 

Person A took some one's life.

Person B took some one's life.

Same thing.

 

It's exactly what you say when you say:

 

Players having to play in PvP matches against opponents they don't want = Kid wanting to build sand castles having to play volleyball.

[akabane_k]

so its right for premades to do something they dont want (wait a long time in queue) so that pugs can do what they want(solo only queue)

 

but it is wrong for pugs to do something they don't want(fight premades) so that premades can do what they want(have faster queue times)

 

hypocritical much?

[Sharee]

Why is that a bad example?

 

Person A took some one's life.

Person B took some one's life.

Same thing.

 

It's exactly what you say when you say:

 

Players having to play in PvP matches against opponents they don't want = Kid wanting to build sand castles having to play volleyball.

 

The topic of this thread is about forcing a group of players to do something they do not want to do just so that another group of players can have their fun.

 

My example made an analogy of that situation in real life.

Your example is completely off-topic. Murder? Please.

[Technohic]

so its right for premades to do something they dont want (wait a long time in queue) so that pugs can do what they want(solo only queue)

 

but it is wrong for pugs to do something they don't want(fight premades) so that premades can do what they want(have faster queue times)

 

hypocritical much?

 

It's a two way street on this, and one of the reasons why most the reasonable posters know that the only real answer is a form of matchmaking.

[Boch]

Matchmaking?

 

All I can say is I'm on pins and needles awaiting to see how the solo ranked works out.

 

Go play lowbie PvP it will be the same. All it s going to do is cause a huge increase in nerf X class. Because the bads won't have premades to blame for there lack of skill. Its also going to kill regs because why play regs if a loss in ranked solo que will give a better reward then a win in regs. It won't stop premades either because people will just time ques.