Thoughts on healing people with the PvP flag

[Immudzen]

I am getting tired of needing to go sit in a cantina or somewhere like that in order to clear that flag. It seems that only healers catch it since other things don't transfer the flag. I don't do PvP and likely never will do PvP.

 

What do you guys think the ethics are of refusing to heal someone that has the PvP flag in a group?

[paul_preib]

Its all context-- are you grouping for a flashpoint? In that case there's no reason to even consider it, eating a few minutes to get unflagged if its that big of a deal.

 

Doiing general open-world questing? Here its your choice but I think you should voluntarily drop the group then not make it a "him or me" awkward situation.

 

 

That said, at the end of the day being flagged/unflagged means being on a pve server. If that is the case there are very few places where this will be a threat so I wouldn't pverstress/think it.

[Kalfear]

Honestly I think non flagged pvp players should NOT be able to affect PVP players in any way shape or form!

 

That means no you cant heal and buff buddyboy (and thus you dont get flagged cause hes to ignorant to join group unflagged)

 

But that would ALSO mean flagged opponent cant run into your AOE and flag you against your will

 

AND

 

Unflagged player cant leap or attack you (when you are flagged) with no warning (They should have to manually flag themselves THEN ATTACK. Why should they get a free attack in for not being openly flagged?)

 

Just make it unflagged players can not interact with flagged players of any faction in any way (unless they willingly flag themselves).

 

I know when im on as my healer and doing BH. If I advertise for a PUG I will not join flagged groups or keep flagged players because as a healer I have to interact with them and I just dont want my healer flagged!

 

Some get mad and say "all you need to do is stand in a cantina for 5 minutes to get it gone"

To which I reply "Well go find a cantina, stand there, and if we still looking when your unflagged you can return to us"

 

But I really shouldnt have to.

EA said before games released that NO non pvp player will ever find themselves flagged against their will

 

But thats not really true is it?

Edited October 15, 2012 by Kalfear

[SithEater]

EA said before games released that NO non pvp player will ever find themselves flagged against their will

 

But thats not really true is it?

False. With the exception of the bug/exploit that allowed some players to flag others against their will so they could grief them, it very much IS your choice. You chose to heal or buff said flagged player and thus you chose to become flagged. If you didn't notice they were flagged it was your choice to assume all people aren't flagged and heal/buff someone without checking their flagged status first.

 

If you get in my group and refuse to heal someone cause they are flagged its you that are going to get the boot. Your job is to heal those taking damage, end of story, and if you are too selfish to fulfill that role another player or companion will. Tanks tank, DPS do damage, healers heal and it really is that simple. So do what you are in the group to do or get out and go find people as selfish as yourself to group with cause I ain't one of them.

[patchew]

to be honest, the PVP flag shouldnt carry forward in to a group. I've been the victim of it too.

I'd join the group when i was out in the world, get transported to the fp and heal some chappie who then gets me flagged. The group disbands (how i got caught was i was brought in for the end boss fight and i left before it expired. i then re-materialised in to the real world to complete the quest i was doing and up pops a sentinel who just happened to be near me and boom im dead) and i keep the pvp flag, even though i didnt activate it in the first place.

 

It is annoying and BIO should change it so that flags are what you came in with, not what you leave with.

[Grinstone]

As I've said before, the behavior that annoys me far more is when I group up with someone who is PvP flagged and my companion heals them. It's unavoidable short of pulling out another companion (who likely won't be geared at all if I'm leveling). I don't care to be forced to choose between changing my play style or going to safe zone and sitting it out for five minutes because someone in the group was flagged for PvP.

 

Being flagged is their play style choice. Don't force that choice on me.

[Foobert]

Since they were able to make it so that if you are in a WZ, you are unable to queue for an FP, maybe that mechanic should be extended so that on PVE servers, players pvp flagged can't queue for an FP in general. I can't really see a downside to this at the moment, since the same reasoning for blocking FP queing in a WZ can be applied to open pvp: you don't necessarily want pvp players suddenly whisked away to an FP while they are duking it out in the middle of tatooine, for example.

[Kalfear]

False. With the exception of the bug/exploit that allowed some players to flag others against their will so they could grief them, it very much IS your choice. You chose to heal or buff said flagged player and thus you chose to become flagged. If you didn't notice they were flagged it was your choice to assume all people aren't flagged and heal/buff someone without checking their flagged status first.

 

If you get in my group and refuse to heal someone cause they are flagged its you that are going to get the boot. Your job is to heal those taking damage, end of story, and if you are too selfish to fulfill that role another player or companion will. Tanks tank, DPS do damage, healers heal and it really is that simple. So do what you are in the group to do or get out and go find people as selfish as yourself to group with cause I ain't one of them.

 

LOL what makes you think Id ever enter YOUR Group?

 

Based on your post id say if your on my server your already on ignore!

 

LOL, you want to force flagging on me by giving me the privilige of healing you

 

and IM the selfish one!

 

ROFLMAO! Now ive heard it all!

 

Thanks though, I needed that laugh!

 

Since they were able to make it so that if you are in a WZ, you are unable to queue for an FP, maybe that mechanic should be extended so that on PVE servers, players pvp flagged can't queue for an FP in general. I can't really see a downside to this at the moment, since the same reasoning for blocking FP queing in a WZ can be applied to open pvp: you don't necessarily want pvp players suddenly whisked away to an FP while they are duking it out in the middle of tatooine, for example.

 

That works

 

but id make it pvp flagged players (on pve servers of course) simply cant group up with unflagged players!

 

So they have the choice of going and removing THEIR FLAG if they want to join group or staying flagged and looking for other like minded players who they can group with!

 

I klnow a few guildies have accidently buffed a PUG they in with out looking for flagged players and ended up flagging themselves because of it. They were non to impressed about having to goto a cantina and sit for 5 minutes cause some kid didnt do it first out of common curtisy and respect for others.

 

Or at least put a option in the client that person only groups with same flagged/unflagged players to avoid all the nonsense!

 

Course I expect buddy above will call us selfish again cause you know, its our job to play his prefference setting! Lord forbid he think of someone but himself.

Edited October 15, 2012 by Kalfear

[yoohoohoo]

Completely agree, we need the flag settings changed. I play a tanking juggernaut and i've seen quite a few healers leave the group for this same reason we're discussing. Of course, someone gets out their heal companion but at high level fps THIS DOES NOT WORK. The Healers and the Tanks have the most sway in the group so they should be able to say to a flagged player f*** off and go remove your flag. Someone said don't make it a him or me option but that's what you need to do. There are always more DPS looking for a group and they'll probably be more considerate.

[Valethar]

I am getting tired of needing to go sit in a cantina or somewhere like that in order to clear that flag. It seems that only healers catch it since other things don't transfer the flag. I don't do PvP and likely never will do PvP.

 

What do you guys think the ethics are of refusing to heal someone that has the PvP flag in a group?

 

Don't heal them if you don't want to be flagged. If they want heals, they'll learn to turn off the flag in PvE.

 

Personally I don't think it has anything to do with ethics. If someone joins your group and they're flagged, just tell them straight up that they aren't getting heals until the flag is removed. If that's too difficult for them to understand or comply with, they're probably too stupid to be in the group to begin with.

[Immudzen]

Honestly I think non flagged pvp players should NOT be able to affect PVP players in any way shape or form!

 

That means no you cant heal and buff buddyboy (and thus you dont get flagged cause hes to ignorant to join group unflagged)

 

But that would ALSO mean flagged opponent cant run into your AOE and flag you against your will

 

AND

 

Unflagged player cant leap or attack you (when you are flagged) with no warning (They should have to manually flag themselves THEN ATTACK. Why should they get a free attack in for not being openly flagged?)

 

Just make it unflagged players can not interact with flagged players of any faction in any way (unless they willingly flag themselves).

 

I know when im on as my healer and doing BH. If I advertise for a PUG I will not join flagged groups or keep flagged players because as a healer I have to interact with them and I just dont want my healer flagged!

 

This I agree with. Flagged and Unflagged should just not be able to help each other at all. That way if someone is flagged and I am not instead of me getting flagged for healing them instead I would just not be able to heal them.

 

That seems like it would solve the problem really quickly since if people wanted to do PvE grouping they would go unflag themselves.

 

So far this is the only MMO I have played where I feel forced into PvP and it is very frustrating.

 

I was in an area yesterday where there was a level 50 going around in a much much lower level area killing people on my side that had the flag and I did not notice until after I healed a group member and got the flag so after the group instance I ended up going back to a cantina to remove the flag. If that person had attacked me it is not like I would have done anything, I am not going to fight back, can't run away from someone so it is just an annoyance I don't want to deal with.

 

However this also seems to be a problem that only healers have to deal with. If you are a tank there is not really anything you can do to transfer the PvP flag of a dps over to yourself. If you are a dps you can't really get the flag from a healer or tank. It is really only the healer that can contract the flag. That also seems to be the class that most groups are looking for and the one that gets screwed the most for doing it.

[Sambril]

Honestly I think non flagged pvp players should NOT be able to affect PVP players in any way shape or form!

 

This. The only way you be flagged is to manually turn on the flag or to enter a pvp zone, and you get a 10 sec warning for those so you can leave (though I think the borders of such zones should be clearly marked on the in game map).

 

I choose a PvE server because I do not like to PvP. Even if I did want to PvP I would like it to be at a time and place of my choosing.

[Gonco]

I come from a PvP server. How much open world PvP do PvE servers contain? Is ganking a big problem for you guys?

 

I understand that it's frustrating to be flagged but in case of grouping/not grouping because of a person flagged, is the reward of teaming up to accomplish something not worth your possible attack, if it even occurs?

 

In my opinion, we shouldn't let flagging get in the way of grouping. In fact, you're bumping your chances of survival in a group. Some might refuse to heal a group with flagged players, and that's fine, but they should realize that they are no more special than the other members of the group. I wonder if, put in the same position, the other members would do the same with the healer.

[Raila]

False. With the exception of the bug/exploit that allowed some players to flag others against their will so they could grief them, it very much IS your choice. You chose to heal or buff said flagged player and thus you chose to become flagged. If you didn't notice they were flagged it was your choice to assume all people aren't flagged and heal/buff someone without checking their flagged status first.

 

Uhm. False! I went afk during a group when we lost a player and were waiting for replacement. I came back from being afk to myself and another person being flagged by the new member.

 

So how is getting flagged while I am afk my choice?

[Grinstone]

Would you feel the same way if healing someone (even if your companion did it) who was not PvP flagged dropped your PvP flag and you couldn't flag for PvP again until you went and stayed in some particular area for five minutes? I doubt that PvPers would be thrilled about being unable to flag for PvP on a PvP server.

 

The point remains that if I want to PvP, I'll flag myself for PvP. If I'm grouped with someone who is flagged I have to choose between setting a state on myself that runs counter to my desires or not helping another (or perhaps the other) person in my group, which runs counter to the purpose of grouping. It's a lose-lose predicament. Being attacked while unwillingly flagged would merely be the icing on the cake.

 

The solution presented above are probably the easiest to implement and would also solve the companion issue (which is how I usually end up flagged when in a group). That way everyone's on the same page and there's no potential drama about someone who's flagged not getting heals or being kicked from the group, or whatever, and nobody gets flagged unless they choose to be flagged.

 

I'll admit I've never suffered from this the few times it has happened to me, beyond being forced to park myself for those five minutes, but I find the principle behind it lazy and borderline dumb. Sort of how most MMO developers slap "RP" on a server and believe that's all they need to do for roleplayers.

[Urael]

What do you guys think the ethics are of refusing to heal someone that has the PvP flag in a group?

 

Nothing wrong with this if you are on a PvE server. TBH, most that "run around flagged" on a PvE server are just trying to grief with the AOE bug er I mean "feature". Shadowlands is FULL of these types on both sides of the "war".

[Foobert]

I come from a PvP server. How much open world PvP do PvE servers contain? Is ganking a big problem for you guys?

 

I understand that it's frustrating to be flagged but in case of grouping/not grouping because of a person flagged, is the reward of teaming up to accomplish something not worth your possible attack, if it even occurs?

 

In my opinion, we shouldn't let flagging get in the way of grouping. In fact, you're bumping your chances of survival in a group. Some might refuse to heal a group with flagged players, and that's fine, but they should realize that they are no more special than the other members of the group. I wonder if, put in the same position, the other members would do the same with the healer.

 

On PVE servers, some planets with shared maps can have a problem with ganking. There was a some controversy on Nar Shadaa during the Chevin Race event when L50s would grief players attempting to either get the yellow matrix shard or complete that portion of the race by camping the box players had to jump on in order to get to the datacron or trigger one of the shared faction event bosses. On Nar it was also easy for a republic player to get PVP flagged by accident when taking a shortcut to one of the bonus heroics that partially runs through empire territory near upper industrial complex. On Tatooine, there is a lot less spatial overlap between the republic and empire areas as they don't share spaceports or anything.

[MariaD]

I am on a PvE server and I am always flagged. In your situation, I would prefer if the healer simply said "I do not want to be flagged, so I will not heal you" at the start of a group run. Then I would choose what to do, on my end (sit it out to unflag, leave the group, or go without heals).

[MariaD]

Shadowlands is FULL of these types on both sides of the "war".

 

I am on The Shadowlands and something like that happened to me unintentionally the other day. I was in the Republic territory (on my flagged Sith warrior) looking for PvP fun. I saw a chest with some non-flagged pubs fighting mobs around it, so I ran for the chest and clicked it. And then something weird happened where Republic companions got flagged, but not players... and only later, players. I wondered if they flagged on purpose or not.

 

One reason I like to PvP on a PvE server is that it's much more consensual. As in, you can opt out.

[Urael]

I am on The Shadowlands and something like that happened to me unintentionally the other day. I was in the Republic territory (on my flagged Sith warrior) looking for PvP fun. I saw a chest with some non-flagged pubs fighting mobs around it, so I ran for the chest and clicked it. And then something weird happened where Republic companions got flagged, but not players... and only later, players. I wondered if they flagged on purpose or not.

 

One reason I like to PvP on a PvE server is that it's much more consensual. As in, you can opt out.

 

Not really. As long as the AOE "feature" is in the game where people can be flagged against their will AND as long as there are players that take advantage of it (and there ARE MANY on SHADOWLANDS that do so (you know who you are griefers)) PvP on a PvE server is far from consensual.

[Eszi]

I really don't understand all the crying about this. So, you got flagged by healing someone in your group, and now you have an icon next to your portrait. It's not like you can get attacked by anyone on the fleet, and even if you do, there isn't even a repair cost.

Carebears...

[Urael]

I really don't understand all the crying about this. So, you got flagged by healing someone in your group, and now you have an icon next to your portrait. It's not like you can get attacked by anyone on the fleet, and even if you do, there isn't even a repair cost.

Carebears...

 

If you are flagged you will get kicked from a group that I am running if it's a PUG. Plain and simple. Let me say this again YOU WILL BE KICKED IF YOU ARE FLAGGED. I PvP on PvP servers I PvE on PvE servers. Simple as that. I will NOT help you if you are flaggged out in the open world. I will not heal you, or buff you, or help you will a kill if I see you getting your butt handed to you. If you really want to PvP .. then PvP ON a PvP server.

 

((This goes for whatever game I play that has these mechanics not just SWTOR.))

Edited October 15, 2012 by Urael

[Elyx]

but id make it pvp flagged players (on pve servers of course) simply cant group up with unflagged players!

 

So they have the choice of going and removing THEIR FLAG if they want to join group or staying flagged and looking for other like minded players who they can group with!

 

I klnow a few guildies have accidently buffed a PUG they in with out looking for flagged players and ended up flagging themselves because of it. They were non to impressed about having to goto a cantina and sit for 5 minutes cause some kid didnt do it first out of common curtisy and respect for others.

 

Or at least put a option in the client that person only groups with same flagged/unflagged players to avoid all the nonsense!

 

Course I expect buddy above will call us selfish again cause you know, its our job to play his prefference setting! Lord forbid he think of someone but himself.

 

I agree. It's not the job of PvE players to contend with the decisions or choices of PvP players. this is a PvE game with PvP elements. PvP players will usually have no problems playing PvE (they just prefer PvP), whereas PvE players who do not want to PvP are vehemently against it. the burden of that choice is then on the PvP'er, since it's his choice to do it anyways (this would be different in a game that was designed to be PvP first....such as Aion. the inverse would then be in effect).

 

So I agree with the above idea....people who are PvP flagged should have to wait out the timer. It was their choice from the beginning....if the timer should be inflicted on anyone, it should be the PvP player. PvE players who group up in a PvE setting should not be held responsible for the decisions of a PvP player.

 

Blaming a healer for the choice of a PvP player who then wants to push himself into the PvE world is simply silly. a real life comparison (it is extreme, ill give you that...but it proves the point), is someone who gets drunk and drives, and then blames the person they run into because it was "their choice to be on the road with me". laughable at best. The person who is on the road has a reasonable expectation that the other drivers are trained and not impaired. likewise, the PvE player is grouping in PvE with a reasonable expectation that he will not have to deal with being exposed to hostile player elements or people who would expose them in that way through lack of planning.

 

EDIT: Just to note: I have nothing against PvP. I did it for many years in PvE games, and PvP oriented games as well. Im just at a point in my gaming career where overall the environment is something I don't enjoy (mostly the immature attitudes). I get enough of that dealing with raising 3 teenage boys. But I know many mature, decent people who enjoy it. There's nothing wrong with it, but those who make the choice should deal with the consequences of those choices. If I choose to PvP, then I go back to town, sit there for 5m, and take a Bio break. it's as simply as that. it was my choice, and it is my responsibility. not the responsibility of those who would group up with me 5 minutes later.

Edited October 15, 2012 by Elyx

[Urael]

Just because a post have PvP in the title or has some discussion of PvP on the thread DOES NOT MEAN it needs be MOVED to the PvP Forum. This conversation is not relevent to the PvP contingent. This conversation is about PvP POSERS not true PvPers.

 

Once again a post moved to the WRONG forum. This IS of a general nature.

[Eszi]

If you are flagged you will get kicked from a group that I am running if it's a PUG. Plain and simple. Let me say this again YOU WILL BE KICKED IF YOU ARE FLAGGED. I PvP on PvP servers I PvE on PvE servers. Simple as that. I will NOT help you if you are flaggged out in the open world. I will not heal you, or buff you, or help you will a kill if I see you getting your butt handed to you. If you really want to PvP .. then PvP ON a PvP server.

 

((This goes for whatever game I play that has these mechanics not just SWTOR.))

 

bla bla bla

Same crying, same lack of reason.

So, you'll get flagged. And what? You do realise that you can turn it off, and there's no penalty if someone kills you.

Also, who the **** are you to tell me what and where I should do?

Oh, and how about I kick you first

Carebears...