Arash's Marauder Corner (Warning, it is a mess in here)

[AsiriusNazriel]

Lately there have been a ton of people asking me about Mars/Sents, specs, itemizing, stats, strats, etc etc. So I want to share with the Ebon Hawk community my knowledge and my opinions. This is how I see Marauders/Sentinels, especially Annihilation/Watchmen, as that is who I am known to play and push that class/spec to the limit. If you guys disagree with any of the points I make, PLEASE SAY IT. I want to BUILD A DIALOGUE and you know, create an atmosphere where we can talk about this with the people who are part of our direct community, not just the general SWTOR forums. The following document was constructed sometime in the early Spring of 2012 for Pax’s internal PVP forums and has recently been edited for updates.

 

 

The purpose of this document is to give insight and educate on how I view Marauders and my general overall PVP play style (solely from the viewpoint of the Marauder class). A lot of this content may be out of order, or perhaps can be organized better, I tried. There’s just a lot that can be said and it’s often situational. I can ramble over and over Annihilation Marauders and PVP in general, there is just so much.

 

 

So here is how I classify 2 categories:

DANGEROUS - Healer, Grav/Tracer Round Spammer, Elite DPS (Elite Players)

SQUISHIEST – Healer, Smuggler/Operatives, non-tank Trooper/Bountyhunter

I want to eliminate either the squishiest or the most dangerous opponent from the battlefield as soon as possible. I’m CONSTANTLY evaluating the battlefield for those specific targets. Often it is the healer. Sometime it isn’t. I’ll change targets in mid combat and go after the nasty Gunslinger who is in cover and laying waste to my team. I will go after Grav Round spammers because I know that if left alone they can waste and devastate. I don’t see a point to attack a tank guarding a healer because then all the damage you dish out is getting healed, so I just go for the healer and through Guard damage the tank as well. That is the optimal strategy for me because you can take out a tank and a healer simultaneously in a 2on1 and then cap the node, instead of killing one then the other and then your first victim has had time to respawn. Generally I try to play smart. If I’m low on HP I’ll try to disengage and hit Invisibility Cloak to get away and get healed up, if possible. I try not to engage a group of baddies by myself (unless they are undergeared), that is just silly and poor PVP choice unless you need to run interference.

 

The spec that works best for me is Annihilation. It has amazing survivability (sometimes I’m top heals in WZs) and can generate incredible damage (my current record is 990ish dps).

 

Carnage and Rage are awesome if you have dedicated healers, like Bay and Jevy. High burst, great for organized teams. I solo queue a lot so for me the surviveability of Annihilation outweighs Carnage and Rage. Plus I make Annihilation work a bit better.

 

Timing is everything. You need to have a feeling for when your abilities are ready without looking at the toolbars. It’s nice that Deadly Saber is off the GCD so you see it activate in mid air or as you finish one of your abilities.

 

UPDATED: 09/24/2012

My spec configuration and outfitting:

http://db.darthhater.com/skill_calc/sith_warrior/marauder/#::e8fe3fefe3f2efef7ef15ef9:

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/31cd646e-52ed-48c7-b37a-7da8defc03b1

 

This is my current spec. It is Annihilation spec. I rely heavily on bleeds and bleed critical hits. I almost always run in if I can and leave force charge available after I get knocked back. The 12 sec cd on charge is huge for reclosing distance, after the proper Annihilation talents.

 

I think that a key aspect of the spec is to always have Rage available at your fingertips because abilities such as Deadly Saber, Rupture, and Annihilate use up rage real quick.

 

I recently changed from having 2 points in Cloak of Annihilation to Defensive Roll to lower the damage of Rage spec’d classes. I haven’t tested it out too much but t takes 30% off of damage. I think that should be pretty noticeable especially when you’re getting jumped by Smash type autocrits and Smash in general as in 1.4 the cd on Smash/ForceSweep is being actively lowered by other abilities. I think that Cloak of Annihilation is more for PVE where you get more opportunities to use Retaliate. One other thing that Phage mentioned is how Defensive Roll is very useful in Operations because it helps protect from AOEs.

 

My rotation is generally run in (or force leap) starting with Battering Assault to build up rage, Deadly Sabers. Rupture. Assault until you have enough for Annihilate, Assault until Battering Assault is off cd. Once your bleed attacks are off cd or proc like Rupture does, use them. You want to apply bleeds as often as possible, they and assault (slash for Sentinels) are your bread & butter. The more bleeds (and the quicker) you can apply the more damage you will do. Deadly Sabers are off the GCD and I can activate it (if I have enough Rage) in the middle of any ability. The next ability will be Assault (build up rage until I have enough to activate Annihilate). After Annihilate I am using Assault as much as possible to build up rage. If I managed to proc Rupture, I’m using that.

 

In essence I am using Assault, Rupture, Deadly Saber, and Annihilate. Whenever I have the opportunity to activate retaliate, I do. It’s off the GCD and I can use another ability at the same time as I am dishing out Retaliate. NEVER use Smash as Annihilation. Annihilation is single target and Smash has no place in your rotation, it only wastes Rage. This is my opinion on the Smash/Forcesweep in Annihilation/Watchman rotation.

 

Interrupts are the bread and butter of the Annihilation build. Having an interrupt at a 6sec cd is huge. Can’t really stress enough how important interrupt is. I have it bound to Q, so that it is literally a fingertip away when I need it. It’s off the GCD. It is used to interrupt healers, to interrupt BHs/Troopers, Sorceror/Sage force lightning. I used to stop Ravage/Masterstrike, but now that it’s off the GCD, you have to knockback, vanish, cc, or runaway. Your interrupt should be used on the longer casting time abilities because they are the ones that are more powerful.

 

I leave Obfuscate for 1vs1 situations.

 

Ravage is a great ability that is pretty amazing when it completes. Don’t ever use it unless you’re sure that your opponent will stand still and it completes or opponent is CC’s by another player. That’s generally my take on it. It is pretty easy to stop with CCs, knockbacks, disappearing, and running away. The only big thing is that you can’t stand in front of a SW or JK who is using Ravage/Masterstrike. You identify it and then you react accordingly. Nowadays I don't use Ravage as much, sometimes I'll use it to burst a Sage/Sorc. bubble, but it's not my dmg go to ability, I prefer Assault/Bleeds/Annihilate.

 

Invisibility Cloak is useful for escaping or getting the jump on someone (but I recommend to leave it for escape purposes). 6 second disappearance is very nice. So often I’ll be in Civil War and fight at a turret and when my HP drops to very low numbers I’ll activate it and run to the nearest green HP booster.

 

Undying Rage is very situational. It saves butt, but lets not kid ourselves, if you pop Undying Rage, you'll still probably die after it finishes. Everyone cries about it, but as it is only useful when the other opponents don’t react properly. It has indeed saved me on countless occasions. Use it when you’re at less than 2k health, more like 1.5k. When it runs out you’ll most likely be killed, so it’s a last ditch attempt to wreak havoc on anyone and everything around you for 5 seconds. How do you combat this? Don’t fight the guy who’s just activated Undying Rage. Don’t fight the guy who’s activated his Assassin tank 5 sec tech/force shield. Make distance and wait for it to finish and then come in for the killing blow. If it’s a Marauder vs. Marauder situation then force cloak until the duration runs out. If your force cloak is on CD, well too bad, such is life.

 

The toughest 1on1 fights are going to be against good players, no matter the class. Having said that, the toughest for me tend to be against Assassin/Shadow tanks and Sniper/Gunslingers. Those 2 classes should be taken out by other ranged classes. Assassin/Shadow have ability to nullify dots. They are incredibly durable. They have self heals. If they activate their invulnerability my suggestion is to get as far as possible for the next 5-6 seconds. When your opponent is using invulnerability and they are a melee class, the easiest way to combat this is to get out of range and wait until it ends. Sniper/Gunslingers need to have Obfuscate cast on them asap because you know that they will knock you back and root you. Then you have to wait and by the time you get into range again they’ve caused serious damage. In all honesty 1on1 you’re probably going get owned by a good Assassin/Shadow or Sniper/Gunslinger. They are great counters for melee classes.

 

Tough healer classes are always Smugglers/Operatives, you can shut them down and get them out of the WZ, but it's hard to kill them, even for me. But eventually they die, it just takes a literal minute, which is too long in my book. Good Sages/Sorcerors are difficult to completely kill when they are in Hybrid form.

 

A very big part of my success is the way I’ve bound my keys. I try to minimize the time it takes for my fingers to travel for the most used abilities and still have the less used abilities on shortcut. I use a G700 mouse so the 4 side buttons are bound to 1, 2, 3, and 4 respectively. Next I bind 5 to Shift + 1, 6 to Shift + 2, 7 to Shift + 3, and 8 to Shift + 4. 9 is bound to Q. 10 is bound to E. 11 is bound to X and 12 is bound to F. So the whole top bottom toolbar is on shortcut. Then I use Shift + Q, Shift + W, Shift + E, Shift + A, Shift + S, Shift + D, Shift + Z, Shift + X, Shift + C, S, R, and Shift + F, in order, to finish out the bottom part of the bottom toolbar. I’ve bound Shift + R to next Friendly. The left toolbar is bout Alt + 1, Alt +2, Alt + 3, Alt+4, Shift + Alt + 1, Shift + Alt + 2, Shift + Alt + 3, Shift + Alt + 4 for the first 8 abilities of the left toolbar. All of this binding is very important.

 

Umm, I guess that’s about it. There’s A LOT. Most people will say that Marauders are the most complicated class to play, I can’t really say that because for me it’s pretty easy since I have all of it down pat. Marauders are hands down one of the most fun and engaging classes to play. Anyone will tell you, they are a blast.

 

So roll your Marauders/Sentinels and bring devastation in the name of the Emperor (yes even Sentinels can serve the Empire!).

 

P.S.

Okay so a couple of things. I sorta cleaned up some things that are outdated. My views have changed on certain finer points of PVP so I made adjustments there. I will try to post a screenshot of UI, but it's not a promise. Nowadays all 3 trees are viable. Second, yes I am really really good at Marauder. Always been, once I got the hang of it after launch, Annihilation spec just kinda clicked for me. It doesn't click for everyone, there are other very very viable DPS trees. Secondly, my PVP gear is fully optimized now for DPS. That means that I have take mods/enhancements out that have higher endurance and replaced them from Vindicator/Weaponmaster sets that have higher dps bonuses such as crit/power/accuracy. That means that it is harder to judge skill vs. gear in regards to me, I have the very best gear. Don't kid yourselves, gear does have an impact on PVP, and it becomes a game of small edges when skill levels are equalized.

 

P.P.S.

Some responses I’ve made on the Pax forums.

- Close quarters is a waste. The only thing it does is lower that charge distance, I'd rather spend in on AOE defense. If I need to close distance I just strafe away from someone who is running away and then hit force charge, only takes 0.5-1 sec anyways, it's very difficult to keep someone 4m-10m range. So if he's running towards you then you run towards him, if he's running away you run away and force charge.

 

The AOE defense is a pretty big deal considering a charged up Smash/ForceSweep will do over 5k damage easily, which means you're reducing at least 1.5-2k damage inflicted upon you. And once 1.4 drops there will be many many more players playing Rage/Focus spec.

 

MY GEAR SETUP CURRENTLY:

My gear is fully itemized with Str augments:

Crit is 400: Unbuffed crit ~30%

Surge is 260: ~75.14%

Accuracy is : 99.4%

Power is 799: 570 Total Bonus Damage

Strength is 1799 (Max would be 1815ish with Campaign armoring for my belt, currently 25-guardian armoring in that slot)

Expertise: 1208

 

2 26-grade armorings in bracers and belt. Power crystals in both slots on lightsabers. PVP Vindicator set bonus.

 

Buffed I'm sitting on 36.2% crit and 19122hp.

 

 

NOW YOU GUYS CAN GO QQ & FLAME.

Edited October 27, 2012 by AsiriusNazriel

[DarthBror]

Very nice of you to share your info here man. +1 for being non elitest. lol

[AsiriusNazriel]

Very nice of you to share your info here man. +1 for being non elitest. lol

 

Arash isn't elite, elite is below Arash.

[kloma]

its a great post, interesting to see you don't go for the short leap

[Aikiyc]

At first I was questioning that rotation, then I remembered that I haven't played Annihilation since like... 1.2. xD Carry on!

 

I will add a note about your Scound/Operative healer section. We're pretty much the anti-marauder healer. We have Evasion, our 100% melee and ranged defense that peels off all DoTs, on a 1 min CD, lasts 3 seconds. So we can ruin your day by anticipating your next Annihilate/Merciless Slash or Ravage/Master Strike. We have about a 3.5k shield on a 45 sec CD. Our vanish to either force a drop target or as a get away. AND we're extremely mobile. :3

 

The problem you're probably finding as Annihi is that you have a very high sustained DPS, versus scounds/ops with a very high sustained HPS on the move. About 70-75% of the total healing of a good scound/op healer is from heals that can be applied while moving, and of course, Surgical Probe/Emergency Medpac can be spammed for infinity once you bring them to 30% health. The caveat is that we're not very good at burst healing (ie versus carnage spec), and for max HPS we do have a bit of a build up (Kolto Probe/Slow-release Medpac stacks).

 

The best way to negate (not necessarily kill) a scound/op healer is to harass them, and apply Deadly Throw/Crippling Throw. Slows and roots work GREAT. Always interrupt Kolto Injection/Underworld Medicine, not Kolto Infusion/Kolto Pack (KInf isn't worth it, however rare it is to see it, as it consumes a TA proc and KInj grants a TA proc), or Diagnostic Scan (gives back energy, yes, but they're also not actually healing either. Hitting hard is better than an interrupt since they can easily bait you into interrupting DS so they can use a cast heal). The strategy really comes down to persuading one of two responses that depend entirely on the particular player.

 

Response one is "Oh god, I'm being attacked, run for it!" This is the herding method, where you drive the scound/op away from the action, and out of range of their allies (who they're supposed to be healing) and the objectives. This happens more often with scounds/ops than the other two healers (or at least, it should) because of their innate mobility. Some players are so busy keeping themselves alive by running away that they let themselves be herded even further away from the action. Congratulations, you just negated 1 healer without needing a killing blow.

 

Response two is "Oh god, I'm being attacked, help me!" This is where you dish out so much damage they're forced to heal themselves and not their allies (happens more when you use Deadly Throw. 20% reduction to healing received HURTS >.< ). It usually looks like the scound/op running around LoS spots at the fringe of the action, or through the middle of the action generally near his own allies. It can look calm and collected, and you might think you're not getting anywhere, but the constant use of their mobility (ie, they're not using their casts anymore) tells the story. Congratulations, you just negated 1 healer without a killing blow. ^.^

 

Basically, don't worry about killing a scound/op healer as much as just ensuring that they're no longer contributing to the action. As a marauder, more than likely you're going to need help killing the scound/op, so if you find yourself in a 1v1, don't jump in with a killing blow in mind.

 

Miscellaneous tips:

 

Debilitate/Dirty Kick (4 sec stabby stun) more often than not will be talented for a 30 sec CD (base 45 sec) and provides a 30% speed boost for 4 seconds. Can be used for many reasons. Seperation, axing a Ravage attempt, creating breathing space for a cast heal or two. I'm not sure I would bother CC breaking Debilitate (unless it whites out your Resolve of course), or unless you have him literally 1 or 2 attacks from death.

 

Flash Bang is our 8 second mezz (breaks on damage) on a 1 min CD. Can be talented to reduce accuracy by 10/20% upon ending for 8 seconds. Seriously doubt it's very common as it's pretty niche (only really useful against knight/warrior and slinger/sniper). Flash Bang can be used for seperation, or as objective oriented CC. Again, wouldn't CC break it unless it whites out Resolve, since it's a mezz.

 

Evasion may be talented for a 20% speed boost. Not much of a big deal, but it can cause separation if you're not expecting it and they juke.

 

Sever Tendon/Tendon Blast is a counter slow that may be used for seperation, or to counter your own Leg Slash/Crippling Slash. Slows speed by 50% for 12 seconds.

 

Cloaking Screen/Disappearing Act is our vanish. As I already mentioned above, it can be a forced drop target, or a get away. However, you should know that for 10 seconds if they stay stealthed, their healing is reduced by 100%. Both on themselves (including other healers trying to heal them) and on anybody that has their HoTs. If you make a scound/op vanish and stay vanished, cackle to yourself with glee. You just shut off a huge amount of healing, and he's going to pop out with just as much health as when he vanished.

 

When to stun a scound/op healer: Stuns in general aren't super useful against scound/ops because a large portion of their healing continues to heal while they're stunned. That being said, stuns still can muss up our day.

 

Using your mezz isn't very useful (outside of objective stunning that is). Breaks on damage, and since scound/op is the Heal over Time healer, their HoTs are ticking away while you watch us. Force Choke/Force Stasis, isn't the greatest stun in the world since it's channeled, but can be useful for making them drop their KP/SRM stacks. (Not sure if you can see the timer on an enemy's KP/SRM stack since I've never really had to look, but if you can, you'd want to save Choke/Stasis for when the stack gets down to the end of the duration. It falls off, and then we spend 30 energy to refresh instead of 15, and we have no ticking to heal us for 3 seconds).

 

If you're in a premade with voice chat, you can use this strategy for stuns. Wait for the scound/op to get down to about 30-40% health and call for a 4 second hard stun, and unleash all your burst. With a bit of luck, the stun allows you to bridge that infamous 0-30% gap without letting them use SP/EM.

 

And now that this note has turned into a full fledged 'here's how to kill me' post, I think I've run out of things to mention. xD Hope this helps you marauders and sentinels some.

[Aikiyc]

its a great post, interesting to see you don't go for the short leap

 

This surprised me too. Though I guess it falls down to playstyle. For me, I'd definitely take the shorter leap over 30% AoE reduction since I already have self heals. The 0 range leap gives you 3 free Focus/Rage points every 12 seconds, and can act as a secondary interrupt even when you're on top of your target. But I suppose if you want to be super tanky vs sorta tanky, the 30% AoE talent would be better.

[kloma]

im definitley not questioning him lol, hes hit me enough for me to know he knows what hes doing.

 

best thing for scoundrel healers vs maras to do is remember they have a cleanse.

[Jenzali]

If you are a Merc, Op, or healer Sorc, the #1 thing you want to do vs. Watchman/Annihilation is cleanse yourself right away as soon as you see the blue or red fire on you. This way you can starve them of:

- their snare

- self-healing

- resource generation

- main source of damage

 

Because of this I find Watchman/Annihilation Sents/Marauders (other than Arash, of course) the easiest of the 3 specs to deal with. They are really dependent on that bleed effect (I think it's a physical bleed, so all Mercs and Ops can cleanse them by default, and healing Sorcs with the talent) and once you have cleansed it, the only way they can reset the cooldown of it is with 4-range melee attacks, Vicious Slash and Annihilate.

 

In addition Watchman/Annihilation is missing the +15% passive movement speed boost given by Ataru form and the additional gap closer Obliterate given by Rage spec, so they rely heavily on their Force Charge as their only gap closer (other than perhaps Force Camouflage). In Arash's case, he does not have Close Quarters so your best bet is to snare him and stay between 4 and 10 meters whenever possible, and use a knockback immediately after Force Chage.

 

Although the 6-second cooldown interrupt is really deadly to non-Operative healers, it also has only a 4-meter range. As a Merc healer your best bet is to spam Kolto missile on every cooldown, keep them snared, cleanse the snare on yourself and sneak in a quick cast-time ability while they are catching up to you or are out of LoS. So for most of the less clever Watchman/Annihilation it is a fairly simple matter to shut them down by following the above tips.

 

And finally, a healer secret. A healer's greatest asset is his mobility. That's what makes Carnage/Combat probably the most feared spec because of the numerous roots which are not hampered by resolve. Focus/Rage hits incredibly hard with the Force Sweep/Smash but it's very predictable to know when it's coming. Thankfully there are so few Carnage/Combat players on the server, but unfortunately, you only need one on the enemy team to totally screw you over while the other Sents/Marauders beat on your poor rooted self

 

Not to discount Watchman/Annihilation though. They are a pleasure to heal due to their increased survivability and they are absolutely deadly vs. classes with no cleanse. I notice it's very rare that healers actually cleanse their teammates.

 

I use a G700 mouse so the 4 side buttons are bound to 1, 2, 3, and 4 respectively. Next I bind 5 to Shift + 1, 6 to Shift + 2, 7 to Shift + 3, and 8 to Shift + 4. 9 is bound to Q. 10 is bound to E. 11 is bound to X and 12 is bound to F. So the whole top bottom toolbar is on shortcut. Then I use Shift + Q, Shift + W, Shift + E, Shift + A, Shift + S, Shift + D, Shift + Z, Shift + X, Shift + C, S, R, and Shift + F, in order, to finish out the bottom part of the bottom toolbar. I’ve bound Shift + R to next Friendly. The left toolbar is bout Alt + 1, Alt +2, Alt + 3, Alt+4, Shift + Alt + 1, Shift + Alt + 2, Shift + Alt + 3, Shift + Alt + 4 for the first 8 abilities of the left toolbar. All of this binding is very important.

 

Very good points about the key bindings, I too believe it's the single biggest thing you can do to improve. Just watching people fight it is very obvious if they are keybinders or clickers, or keybinders that are using the default setup of 1 to = on the first action bar, requiring very big finger leaps away from the movement keys. It never actually occurred to me to use modifiers for QWE . I have my abilities set up as 1-6, Alt 1-6, Shift 1-6, and letter RTADYH, but as of late I was noticing some slower reaction times when using modifiers for 5 and 6, such as Shift+5 for Stealth Scan and vanishers have been getting away due to my split second delay in hitting that combination.

 

Always good to see posts like this - we can learn tons of new things even if you're playing a different class. Once I get home today I will be reworking my keybinds.

Edited October 5, 2012 by Jenzali

[AsiriusNazriel]

Dashto is looking to ruin me, hehehe.

 

Actually, this is the reason why I made this post. You know I don't really think that many people 'get it' when playing Annihilation/Watchman AND people don't get how to counter it. Hell, people don't know how to dps right. I don't have armor penetration as Annihilaiton so I don't go out of my way looking for tanks to slay. I look for the target that will be most beneficial for me to eliminate for the good of the match/team.

 

I had some other posts thrown around, most recently in the Sentinel forums that I'm gonna just copy and paste in here. Some of it may be redundant, I may have mentioned it, but it is more recent and I think every little bit of information helps everyone, Mara/Sent or not.

 

POST 1:

Close quarters is a waste because you should only be using force charge to close distance. Preferably you want to run in to close the distance and leave force charge for when you're knocked back.

 

This is probably the best setup for PVP. Your bleeds are force damage so they utilize force insight for that extra 6% crit., this is very important.

 

You want to constantly have a high reserve of focus and apply your dots whenever available with your filler attack. Assault (for Maras) is the main thing you should be constantly hitting to hurt your opponent. You should NEVER use smash/forcesweep as Watchman spec. When in doubt, you your regular attack. If you're at a point where you have 12 and everything else is on cd, which is rare but happens, I recommend either vicious slash (Sentinel equivilent) or blade storm (force scream).

 

It takes a while to get into the rythm of Watchman/Annihilation and it's unfortunate that there are so few people that actually 'get it'. This spec is all about constantly having a high reserve of focus because when your abilities get off of cd, they'll be ready to go all at once and you need to have a full focus bar to do that.

 

 

POST 2:

As Watchman, I am confused if I should put all of my 3 points in Insight, or if I should put 2 in Master Focus, and 1 in Insight. Or if it makes much of a difference anyway...

 

Here's the thing, I would put them all in Insight. For the Watchman tree I don't take any points in close quarters. I leave my force charge to close/reclose distance. Good players will knock you back and so you need to, more often than not, run in instead of force charge. This leaves the force charge in case you get stunned or knocked back, otherwise you're not doing anything or worse yet, getting kited.

 

Secondly, Masterstrike/Ravage is often overrated. As watchman your damage comes from your slash/assault basic 2-focus/rage building attack and your bleeds. You want to have as high a crit, without going overboard, so that you can heal yourself in the process. Having that big focus/rage reserve is uber important and sometimes more important than executing Ravage/Masterstrike. When you're dots or big hit abilities come off of gcd it can be all at once and so you should have that large reserve for when that happens, otherwise you start flailing around trying to build that reserve. Lastly, Ravage/Masterstrike can be easily countered by good players and so I will often leave it for an occassion such as when an opponent is stunlocked, where I can guaranteed get off that big last hit. The 4% crit bonus on insight is better in my opinion because alot of your effectiveness comes from the self-healing bleeds.

 

As with everything, it's situational. I think that Master Focus has merits and you wouldn't be wrong in using it, but personally I go for 3 in insight for the above reasons.

 

 

POST 3:

Okay so the way I see it is that you have a couple of options. And you know, I don't have a specific opener that I use every single time, but I do recommend one of the following.

 

If you can avoid force charging, it may be better to run in. The reason for this is knockbacks and after you've been knocked back enough times by good healers you'll know that you absolutely need your force charge to reclose that distance. Now this is not every time, but a good percentage of the time.

 

If you don't force charge:

Run in -> Zealous Strike -> Overload Saber, Caterize (since Overload Saber is off of GCD you can activate it and another ability at the same time) ......... here is where you have options again, you can use Masterstrike or you can start to build up a focus reserve by using Slash (filler attack) -> Merciless Slash (when available and Cauterize & Overload Saber are on GCD)

 

** Use Merciless Slash only when you have activated all of your DOT abilities and have enough focus for it **

 

The majority of you damage will come from Slash and your dots. There are times where I don't use Masterstrike at all because I'm building up Focus/Rage. So I would probably say that if you use this opener, with running in, you can hold off of Masterstrike and focus on building up Focus and applying your dots.

 

If you open with force charge:

Force charge -> Overload Saber -> Masterstrike -> Zealous Strike -> Caterize -> Slash -> Merciless Slash -> Then Slash Slash Slash

 

You HAVE TO have a Focus reserve of 8 or more. The reason is that when you're abilities come off of GCD you get all of them at once and often enough I can burn down 8-12 focus with ease.

 

Don't focus so much on Masterstrike. Focus on Slash. Slash is the key to building focus. Slash is the key to chipping away your target. Whenever Zen is available, you always activate it.

 

A very sick combination is when you dot your opponent up, say deadly saber cauterize slash slash and THEN you hit him with stasis. They are powerless and they take massive damage.

 

I leave Stasis for when my opponent is either getting close to 40-50% and I've applied dots on them. This way they will burn down and I can use my finisher.

 

Interrupt should be bound to the 2nd most used key. That is how you pressure healers, you interrupt them each and every time.

 

There's ALOT that you need to experience first hand to get this and it takes a while. There are only a handful of people on my server that 'get it', myself included. Most people don't. Watchman/Annihilation is a difficult spec to master, but it is extremely effective when you start pushing it to the limit.

 

So the key take aways are Slash is your bestest best friend. Interrupts are to become second nature, when you see the channel bar you auto-interrupt. DOTS, they will burn your opponents and heal you. Remember that you have to be wary of distance, if you get knocked back or rooted and your target gets away you need a way to close that distance. Don't overvalue Masterstrike, good players will stun/knockback when they see it (I use it sparingly, situationally, and when my teammates have applied a force choke or a stun). And finally stick to your target like glue, they'll hate you for it. Go for either a) THE MOST DANGEROUS TARGET or b) THE SQUISHIEST TARGET.

 

Dangerous Targets: Healers, Big Hitters of GravRound/TracerMissile, Elite DPS (probably in this order)

Squishiest Targets: Healers, Troopers/Bountyhunters, Smugglers/Operatives (probably in this order)

 

No rules are set in stone, these are just guidelines. Everything is situational and you need to react to each situation accordingly. Good Player > Class Mechanics.

Edited October 5, 2012 by AsiriusNazriel

[kloma]

im interested in how many of the better pvp sents/maras also raid, and what kind of parses they put up on the ops dummy.

 

i've known great raiding sents do piss-poor in pvp and was wondering if it worked the other way around too.

 

 

-also force stasis is the key for F**king over us poor scoundrels if you use it as you describe here.

Edited October 5, 2012 by kloma

[Kel-el]

Amazing post, Thank you Arash!

 

I have to admit, after implementing the changes you advised me on last week, my damage and KD ratio have gone up considerably. Although I'm a new 50 and have a lot of grinding to do pvp wise, you pretty much made my Sent incredibly fun to play. Still have a long way to go before i "get it" though.

 

Thank you for sharing with the community.

[Telanyr]

Hrm, I see good times ahead for my alt and I... thanks for all this info!

[AsiriusNazriel]

Amazing post, Thank you Arash!

 

I have to admit, after implementing the changes you advised me on last week, my damage and KD ratio have gone up considerably. Although I'm a new 50 and have a lot of grinding to do pvp wise, you pretty much made my Sent incredibly fun to play. Still have a long way to go before i "get it" though.

 

Thank you for sharing with the community.

 

Thanks, that totally made my day.

[Badfenix]

its a great post, interesting to see you don't go for the short leap

 

Agreed.

 

Recommended spec changes:

You can't skip this one because its an extra interrupt and free rage to boot.

 

Also annihilation should avoid speccing into malice as you will almost never be in a situation to force scream as its the worst rage:damage move you have. You should pretty much never force scream.

 

Also I would recommend moving points into narrowed hatred to free up gear slots for more dps enhancements.

 

edit: read your other post about the bump to bleed crit % increase. Interesting I will have to parse that to see what sort of difference it makes

Edited October 9, 2012 by Badfenix

[PartyBomb]

DANGEROUS - Healer, Grav/Tracer Round Spammer, Elite DPS (Elite Players)

SQUISHIEST – Healer, Smuggler/Operatives, non-tank Trooper/Bountyhunter

I want to eliminate either the squishiest or the most dangerous opponent from the battlefield as soon as possible.

which category am i in cause u never attack me o_O

xD

[TheronFett]

Interesting read. Arash is widely regarded as the best Marauder on our server, so thanks for putting this info out there!

 

I leveled as Annihilation, but switched to Carnage shortly after hitting 50. While in mostly Recruit gear, the damage done via bleeds just took too long and weren't strong enough to kill my target before they killed me in most cases. Now that my Mara has some gear, I might switch back. I PUG a lot too, and the added durability would be very handy.

[wadecounty]

One thing I will say about Maras/Sents, if the person playing the class knows what they're doing, their cd's are better than yours and they have more of them, so do NOT waste time trying to consistently beat them 1v1. Some argue whether its a balance issue or not, (personally I think in small warzones like this game has, its a problem when 1 or 2 classes dominate 1v1 matchups), but yeah, you have to outthink them if you want to win.

 

Solo defending and a good mara/sent comes for you? Have a plan to stall. Don't burn your knockbacks/roots/slows right away, wait until they charge, THEN make them chase you. Let them start capping before you intervene, that can buy you time while you wait for help to arrive.

 

If you do find yourself stuck in a situation where you have to win a 1v1, and you have a mezz, you have a chance to nullify 1 of their defensive cd's, preferrably Guarded By the Force/Undying Rage, although a mara/sent will typically save their stunbreaker for this point anticipating that. The other one to watch for is Rebuke, which will constantly be refreshed if you damage them.

 

If you play a tank in PvP and want to really frustrate them, stack defense (not as much of an option for powertech/vanguard but still possible). If they miss their charge, you don't get rooted, which is amazing for huttball.

 

Ultimately, the way you beat a good mara/sent is to nullify their ability to deathmatch or 1v1 people, as that is their strength. Their team utility is decent (better if carnage/combat spec) but if they don't get to feast on 1v1's they can be overcome.

[AsiriusNazriel]

which category am i in cause u never attack me o_O

xD

 

That's cause you're in my personal pocket healer category.

 

Interesting read. Arash is widely regarded as the best Marauder on our server, so thanks for putting this info out there!

 

I leveled as Annihilation, but switched to Carnage shortly after hitting 50. While in mostly Recruit gear, the damage done via bleeds just took too long and weren't strong enough to kill my target before they killed me in most cases. Now that my Mara has some gear, I might switch back. I PUG a lot too, and the added durability would be very handy.

 

I would just say Annihilation Marauder because that is the spec I'm running 99% of the time and I haven't spent the time building up timings/rotations in Rage, although I do make a very decent Carnage Mara. As far as gear is concerned, it makes all the difference in the world. PVP is a game of small edges when skill level is equalized and so any little edge you can have is going to be increased in a non-linear fashion. I know that Carnage was just awful to play when non-geared, but geared it's a menace. I actually think that Annihilation is the easiest spec, you just dot up, and watch the hp bar drop.

 

People aren't playing their specs right. Here's how I see Annihilation & Carnage. An Annihilation Mara is like a tank almost, I am walking around buffed with 19.1k hp. The healing that I can get done in a span of 10-12 seconds is close to 1k. In a WZ I can average between 80-130 heals per second, even as high as 150 if I'm against healers and am DPSing the entire WZ. 150 * 8 seconds is already 1200hp. So as Annihilation you are basically a walking frontline fighter that can trade hits with the other guy, especially in a long drawn out battle. This is the perfect spec to take out tanksins. I think that Carnage on the other hand should be played like Deception spec. You get in, get out. You see someone engaging your teammate, you force charge, hit gore, and ravage. Then you proceed to burn them down quickly. As Carnage you can't afford to go toe to toe, you don't have that survivability. What you do have is very high damage output that can be countered if the foe is aware. If you are 1on1 with someone, that foe is aware, they can mess your Ravage, stun, forcechoke, etc. So I think you should be hitting people from behind, not taking damage, and pretty much destroying ****. Carnage is not a ninja and Carnage won't let you 2on1 as well as Annihilation can.

 

Rage is a different monstrocity. Rage needs pocket heals. Otherwise rage gets dropped fast. That's the problem with people playing against rage, they don't take out the heals first and fight the first thing they see, burn it down and that Rage player is healed up again and again cause AOE devastation. Especially if the healer is hybrid. People are ignoring hybrid healers and that is the last thing they should ever be doing. Hybrid heals are retarded not just because it is extremely difficult to kill, but because THEY SPAM BUBBLES & STUNLOCK THE BATTLEFIELD. When you see a hybrid healer your job is to kill them fast, if you see someone going after them, wait until they bust the bubble AND THEN attack, instead of attacking and getting the both of you blinded for the 3sec duration.

 

One thing I will say about Maras/Sents, if the person playing the class knows what they're doing, their cd's are better than yours and they have more of them, so do NOT waste time trying to consistently beat them 1v1. Some argue whether its a balance issue or not, (personally I think in small warzones like this game has, its a problem when 1 or 2 classes dominate 1v1 matchups), but yeah, you have to outthink them if you want to win.

 

Solo defending and a good mara/sent comes for you? Have a plan to stall. Don't burn your knockbacks/roots/slows right away, wait until they charge, THEN make them chase you. Let them start capping before you intervene, that can buy you time while you wait for help to arrive.

 

If you do find yourself stuck in a situation where you have to win a 1v1, and you have a mezz, you have a chance to nullify 1 of their defensive cd's, preferrably Guarded By the Force/Undying Rage, although a mara/sent will typically save their stunbreaker for this point anticipating that. The other one to watch for is Rebuke, which will constantly be refreshed if you damage them.

 

If you play a tank in PvP and want to really frustrate them, stack defense (not as much of an option for powertech/vanguard but still possible). If they miss their charge, you don't get rooted, which is amazing for huttball.

 

Ultimately, the way you beat a good mara/sent is to nullify their ability to deathmatch or 1v1 people, as that is their strength. Their team utility is decent (better if carnage/combat spec) but if they don't get to feast on 1v1's they can be overcome.

 

I think like 95% of this post is on point with my understanding. You NEVER solo a Marauder, especially Annihilation spec. The big times that I die alot and consistently is when the other team has recognized me and is like "Okay, so 2 guys are designated for Arash, after you kill him then you can kill everyone else." All the tank advice, everything is spot on. You call for your team and you stall as a tank. And there is so much room for geared tanks, huttball, turret guarding, healer guarding. But you have to be a good tank who is actively peeling and taunting.

 

Agreed.

 

Recommended spec changes:

You can't skip this one because its an extra interrupt and free rage to boot.

 

Also annihilation should avoid speccing into malice as you will almost never be in a situation to force scream as its the worst rage:damage move you have. You should pretty much never force scream.

 

Also I would recommend moving points into narrowed hatred to free up gear slots for more dps enhancements.

I TOTALLY disagree with this and here's why:

 

Again it's a preference thing as far as force charge/interrupting is concerned. Some people like to use force charge as an interrupt in PVP, I don't. When you get knocked back or target breaks 4m and can't close distance you will be an impotent melee or worse yet getting kited.

 

Malice affects the crit chance on your bleeds, the majority of your damage comes from dots/bleeds and your assault basic attack. What you're suggesting is to lower your dot crit by 6%, that is horrendous in my opinion.

 

Because I run a balanced gear setup which approaches the soft cap for most abilities and I have 99.4% accuracy I don't see a need to put any more accuracy points into Narrowed Hatred, they can be better spent on Defensive Roll or Ravager.

 

Currently I just switched from Defensive Roll to Ravager and want to see if that will have a huge difference in survivability, gonna change up my opener and rotation a bit. That is the other thing, you should always think and experiment with new ideas. The game mechanics change and what was needed yesterday may or may not apply today.

[Badfenix]

my earlier post was largely incoherent as I was up pretty late when I wrote it (see my edit)

 

Since I’ve never considered malice I wanted to check out its merits to see if I’ve been missing out all this time. I parsed a spec with the 3/3 Malice for the 6% buff to see what it would do over my normal spec. I was unable to get a true 1:1 comparison as I had to sacrifice 1% hit out of narrowed hatred so take that into consideration as you compare between the 2 parses. The first parse my hit is 95.9%. As far as I'm aware a miss/dodge/parry on rupture still applies the bleed which is the main thing we are looking at in this comparison anyway. I chose 3 min parses because that's about an average lifespan in a typical warzone. Also I was implying getting narrowed hatred not to add more accuracy to your 99% but to free up enhancement slots that are presently stacked for accuracy to the Adept power/surge (low endurance) or the Efficient power/surge (high endurance)

 

Parse 1

http://www.torparse.com/a/29593

Spec 1

http://tiny.cc/lj8wlw

This is my 'every day' spec I use for pve and pvp, provides what I need for both without having to respec all the time. With 1.4 changes I'm going to take 2 out of ravager and go into defensive roll pvp aoe is getting pretty crazy. It's great in 1v1 and has burst when I need it.

 

Parse2

http://www.torparse.com/a/29606

Spec 2

http://tiny.cc/448wlw

Variation of spec 1 with 3/3 Malice

 

The conclusions I can draw after analyzing both having the malice does provide a slight boost in healing per second 256.32 compared to 243.62. Dps is about the same ~1835 they both came in within the margin of rupture proc differential. Bleed crit % went from 59.38% to 65.63% so almost exactly the number promised. I feel when crit numbers are reaching that high you aren’t really gaining much by piling on an extra 6% and the points can be spent elsewhere more effectively. So there is my second opinion if any marauders out there were looking for one.

[AsiriusNazriel]

my earlier post was largely incoherent as I was up pretty late when I wrote it (see my edit)

 

Since I’ve never considered malice I wanted to check out its merits to see if I’ve been missing out all this time. I parsed a spec with the 3/3 Malice for the 6% buff to see what it would do over my normal spec. I was unable to get a true 1:1 comparison as I had to sacrifice 1% hit out of narrowed hatred so take that into consideration as you compare between the 2 parses. The first parse my hit is 95.9%. As far as I'm aware a miss/dodge/parry on rupture still applies the bleed which is the main thing we are looking at in this comparison anyway. I chose 3 min parses because that's about an average lifespan in a typical warzone. Also I was implying getting narrowed hatred not to add more accuracy to your 99% but to free up enhancement slots that are presently stacked for accuracy to the Adept power/surge (low endurance) or the Efficient power/surge (high endurance)

 

Parse 1

http://www.torparse.com/a/29593

Spec 1

http://tiny.cc/lj8wlw

This is my 'every day' spec I use for pve and pvp, provides what I need for both without having to respec all the time. With 1.4 changes I'm going to take 2 out of ravager and go into defensive roll pvp aoe is getting pretty crazy. It's great in 1v1 and has burst when I need it.

 

Parse2

http://www.torparse.com/a/29606

Spec 2

http://tiny.cc/448wlw

Variation of spec 1 with 3/3 Malice

 

The conclusions I can draw after analyzing both having the malice does provide a slight boost in healing per second 256.32 compared to 243.62. Dps is about the same ~1835 they both came in within the margin of rupture proc differential. Bleed crit % went from 59.38% to 65.63% so almost exactly the number promised. I feel when crit numbers are reaching that high you aren’t really gaining much by piling on an extra 6% and the points can be spent elsewhere more effectively. So there is my second opinion if any marauders out there were looking for one.

 

you don't take subjugation? That's so big for locking down healers! Plus the 15sec cd reduction for Obfuscate. I dunno man, that is a must have for any Annihilation in my book. That alone is better than close quarters.

 

The way I view crit is that in most WZs where I am consistently active I am almost always breaking 75k healing. 6% of 75k is what? 4500. I've also been known to break 100k healing on a regular basis. That's enough survivability for me, that's exactly a quarter of my hp bar and can be the deciding factor in an encounter.

 

Plus the crit guarantees a 75% + 30%talented = 105% dot damage. That right there is also worth it imo.

 

I will concede that I haven't ever ran a parse test, which I definitely should and most likely will in the nearest future.

 

P.S.

I'm still uber about non spec'ing into Subjugation. *Shivers*

[Badfenix]

you don't take subjugation? That's so big for locking down healers! Plus the 15sec cd reduction for Obfuscate. I dunno man, that is a must have for any Annihilation in my book. That alone is better than close quarters.

 

The way I view crit is that in most WZs where I am consistently active I am almost always breaking 75k healing. 6% of 75k is what? 4500. I've also been known to break 100k healing on a regular basis. That's enough survivability for me, that's exactly a quarter of my hp bar and can be the deciding factor in an encounter.

 

Plus the crit guarantees a 75% + 30%talented = 105% dot damage. That right there is also worth it imo.

 

I will concede that I haven't ever ran a parse test, which I definitely should and most likely will in the nearest future.

 

P.S.

I'm still uber about non spec'ing into Subjugation. *Shivers*

 

I overcome leaving out subjugation by using the force charge as my 2nd interrupt which also activates the 10% bonus damage buff from the vindicators which by then the disrupt is typically off cooldown or the healer is dead unless its an operative then all bets are off.

[kloma]

this thread is awesome.

 

are those parses done in pve or pvp gear?

[Badfenix]

this thread is awesome.

 

are those parses done in pve or pvp gear?

 

Thats my pvp gear, min max war hero with elite wh hilts

heres my character sheet http://imgur.com/A2wNF

[kloma]

thanks, very nice.

is the target dummy a pvp one? i want to start working on a mara next and want something to aim for. im fed up of being beaten up by them

[AsiriusNazriel]

Well obviously if it says Marauder, some Bioware mod find it and move the thread.

 

I overcome leaving out subjugation by using the force charge as my 2nd interrupt which also activates the 10% bonus damage buff from the vindicators which by then the disrupt is typically off cooldown or the healer is dead unless its an operative then all bets are off.

 

Okay so I thought about this for about half the day and here's what I think:

 

Gotta break this into multiple parts, the first being the Vindicator set bonus. It was designed for 2 specific trees Juggernaut trees, Vengence & Rage. In Vengence the Jugg will force charge and follow with a Ravage for the extra 10%. In Rage, the Juggernaut activate Enrage, force charge, and smash thereby getting the 10% bonus on the smash. Marauders don't really have an Enrage equivilent because Rage spec Enrage is every 40sec and ours is 2.5-3 minutes. So that set bonus isn't really designed for Marauders, be we still benefit tremendously from it nontheless.

 

The second consideration is TTK. Plain and simple, my TTK is 12-15sec (OR LESS) on any non-tank or evasive healer. So I don't see that benefit because I don't have many prolonged fights. If a healer is trying to stationary heal through my damage, they will die, no ifs/ands/buts. The only time I don't take out a stationary healer trying to heal themself through my onslaught is if I screw up an interrupt which happens very rarely (but it does happen). So I don't see that benefit for myself. Because I can take any single tank 1on1, I don't need to spend the points on that, and any good healer will never stand there trying to heal through your damage. So the healer will run away and if he's running away, you can also run away, and within less than a second you broke 10m by straffing, allowing you to force charge, without spending points in close quarters. If you're doing PVE, then sure I can see why you would pick close quarters because there are talents such as Phantom are not needed for PVE. I'm not saying you're wrong, but what I am saying is that my TTK is so high that I don't need it . lol

 

 

Now here is an opening which I think has merit (benefiting hugely from Ravager's 2 points):

Force charge -> Deadly Saber -> Ravage -> Battering Assault -> Rupture -> Assault -> Assault -> Annihilate...

 

Because deadly saber is off gcd you can activate it and simultaneously follow through with a ravage which will hit your target for 2/3 stacks of deadly saber. If this isn't evaded or blocked or interrupted in anyway you can do some serious damage with the Vindicator Set bonus, up to a 1/3% to crit at least one of your hits, and have 2 of your dots on the target within 3 seconds. That is something that is very viable.

 

Also on the question of having 12 Rage/Focus and what to do with it. With 5 stacks of Juyo my Force Scream will crit for 3k damage, this is 42% of the time. 58% of time Force Scream will hit for 1.8k. Still very good numbers btw. Now I only activate it when I have 12 Rage because for me Rage management is the most crucial thing. I think I will be switching back to Vicious Slash, primarily for the 33% proc on Rupture, which will probably outweigh the Force Scream over the course of time. What you obviously lose in this spot is having a 10m range ability. I have a problem that I don't have any available bindings for fast access so I have to choose between the 2. Maybe I'll figure out how to bind both, but I doubt it.

 

SIDE NOTE

Since Bioware has decided to move this thread to the general Marauder forum, I would like to invite everyone who is interested to discuss Marauders/Sentinels. SPECIFICALLY: Annihilation/Watchman

 

"Force ghosts are actually caused by Arash killing people faster than death can process them."