Finrok Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 Player A is a bounty hunter in an Athiss pug. The second boss drops an agent chest. Two other bounty hunters roll greed. Player A rolls need for his companion Mako. Player B is a bounty hunter tank who greeded on that chest. He cusses player A and he and the other Bounty hunter (his buddy) leave the group. What is your view on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatModi Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 (edited) Player A is a rat hole. DUCY? Edited October 5, 2012 by TheGreatModi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxinator Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mcadamsl Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 Player A should have asked first but as a rule need roll is for yourself only not companions in a random pug even more so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kubernetic Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 Player A was clearly wrong to Need on that, especially without having asked the others first. But I think Player B should have had the maturity to stop right there and ask why they did that, and explain why they had a problem with it, and ask for their guarantee that they weren't going to do that again. If Player A then says, "Screw off, I'm going to Need for whatever I want," then I think Player B and their friend (and anyone else) are more than entitled to leave the group and find another. If they just rushed off and quit, without asking or checking to see if ti was a mistake, or if Player A didn't know any better, then they were wrong too. Especially since Player A never got the full notion of WHY it was wrong, and is quite possibly going to just keep doing it out of ignorance. I've accidentally hit Need on an item when I didn't need it, especially when people rush and start grabbing loot while the combat is still going on, and I do a quick perusal and mistakenly see a stat or requirement that wasn't correct. We should be a little tolerant of mistakes. And in a few instances, I've gone to my cargo to grab some purple items or some other items to try to give to the player that got shorted and try to make good on it. But there's no need to have to continue through a Flashpoint with a player who openly doesn't care about loot distribution and fairness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soluss Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 (edited) My take is this is why people should make friends and not do pugs. My second take is that loot rules should be established before the run starts. My 3rd take is that player B is an *** hat. Arguing over a stupid piece of companion loot and leaving a group is silly. Did player A know that noone else is going to roll need on it? Was there an agent in the group? Establish the loot rules before the run if you are going to cry about stuff like this. Edited October 5, 2012 by Soluss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talimar Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 (edited) Unless agreed upon prior, you can need what you want. If the group doesn't like it they will leave, like they did. Needing on one item for a comp when the rest greeded? Get over yourselves people. If you need for a comp when someone else needs for themselves, then yeah, expect ppl to not be happy. Add them to your list of ppl never to group with again. With the changes to BoP loot, they could easily ask for it if they wanted it. Edited October 5, 2012 by Talimar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dosadnik Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 General rule is you greed if you aren't gonna use the item at that moment. However you could ask the others if it is ok with them for you to get it for your alt. In this case Both of them were wrong. Player A should have asked for the chest before needing it. Player B shouldn't have been so harsh. After all he probably just wanted it for the credits or didn't really care about it. He should have explained to player A that this is not ok and that he shouldn't do it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knockerz Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 (edited) Does this game have loot master? If your tank you can just form your own group and set every thing to master looter. It's always been the case for pugging the hardest slot to fill will be tank. Thus, if you play a well geared tank you can set loot master and be the raid leader and loot master. Edited October 5, 2012 by Knockerz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beslley Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 (edited) Who cares? I think there would have been an issue if there was an agent who needed the chest, but if there wasn't, who cares if the BH needed for his companion or not. Is a companion gear piece really worth complaining about in a pug? Save your rage for people who ninja main spec pieces from people. Edited October 5, 2012 by Beslley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voranis Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 My take is this is why people should make friends and not do pugs. My second take is that loot rules should be established before the run starts. My 3rd take is that player B is an *** hat. Arguing over a stupid piece of companion loot and leaving a group is silly. Did player A know that noone else is going to roll need on it? Was there an agent in the group? Establish the loot rules before the run if you are going to cry about stuff like this. I read this a lot. You shouldn't need to 'establish rules' before every bit of content. It's fairly common that you only 'need' on a roll if an item is an upgrade for your character present. If it's for an alt, or a companion, or to sell, or for a friend etc. you 'greed'. The group should not need to 'establish' this. The person who wishes to do otherwise has the burden of 'establishing' their desire to operate outside of the norm. There are plenty of 'grey areas' whether you're talking about crafting components or schematics, on and on. Rolling 'need' on an item for an alt/companion is not one of those grey areas. If you want to do that, you'd better check with the group first. You should also consider this an exception, a favor from the group. I've had people ask to 'need' on items for their alt/companion multiple times in a single run. /rolleyes That said, one loot drop is generally no big deal. Maybe it was accidental, if it wasn't then I would explain to them what is/isn't ok to 'need' on. Yeah, I can see this sort of thing degenerating into an argument. I'm not the sort of person who's quick to kick anyone though, but if the behavior continued. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FearlessXIII Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 As a more "casual" player, I never been in high level play and therefor rearly been in a situation like the one described above. So my experience with te customs about loot are limited at best. Why do several posters say player A was wrong? Personaly, I nerver intentionaly roll either need or greed on an class item if a member of this class is in the group. Otherwise it's fair game, but even then I rarely roll greed, for in my opinion, if anyone thinks he/she can use the item, even only for a companion, he/she is welcome to it. Better to put it to use than just turn it into half a hand full of pocket change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totaltrash Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 It's really simple: All pug team from group finder? Roll whatever floats your boat. Pug in a guild premade? Ask before you roll, or better, ask before you start the ops/fp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talimar Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 As a more "casual" player, I never been in high level play and therefor rearly been in a situation like the one described above. So my experience with te customs about loot are limited at best. Why do several posters say player A was wrong? Personaly, I nerver intentionaly roll either need or greed on an class item if a member of this class is in the group. Otherwise it's fair game, but even then I rarely roll greed, for in my opinion, if anyone thinks he/she can use the item, even only for a companion, he/she is welcome to it. Better to put it to use than just turn it into half a hand full of pocket change. They say A is wrong because he wants it for a companion / pet. They believe that you can only need if your actual character needs the item. They tend to disregard that companions form part of your character. If this was a L50 pug then yeah, you don't need the item for your comp, because you don't need them much at L50 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soluss Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 (edited) I read this a lot. You shouldn't need to 'establish rules' before every bit of content. It's fairly common that you only 'need' on a roll if an item is an upgrade for your character present. If it's for an alt, or a companion, or to sell, or for a friend etc. you 'greed'. The group should not need to 'establish' this. The person who wishes to do otherwise has the burden of 'establishing' their desire to operate outside of the norm. There are plenty of 'grey areas' whether you're talking about crafting components or schematics, on and on. Rolling 'need' on an item for an alt/companion is not one of those grey areas. If you want to do that, you'd better check with the group first. You should also consider this an exception, a favor from the group. I've had people ask to 'need' on items for their alt/companion multiple times in a single run. /rolleyes That said, one loot drop is generally no big deal. Maybe it was accidental, if it wasn't then I would explain to them what is/isn't ok to 'need' on. Yeah, I can see this sort of thing degenerating into an argument. I'm not the sort of person who's quick to kick anyone though, but if the behavior continued. Those loot rules are bogus. If there is not the class present then it makes sense to roll NEED on it if your companion can use it. What if the other group member companions dont need it but you do? Common sense. Yes you do need to establish loot rules before every piece of content. It is obvious by this thread alone that it is necessary. Not everyone does or expects the same loot rules as every other person on the planet. That is evident in my disagreement with your loot rules. Edited October 5, 2012 by Soluss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uluain Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 Yes you do need to establish loot rules before every piece of content. It is obvious by this thread alone that it is necessary. Not everyone does or expects the same loot rules as every other person on the planet. That is evident in my disagreement with your loot rules. Give this man a cigar. Also, if in doubt, it's good form to ask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
errant_knight Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 Player A was clearly wrong to Need on that, especially without having asked the others first. But I think Player B should have had the maturity to stop right there and ask why they did that, and explain why they had a problem with it, and ask for their guarantee that they weren't going to do that again. If Player A then says, "Screw off, I'm going to Need for whatever I want," then I think Player B and their friend (and anyone else) are more than entitled to leave the group and find another. If they just rushed off and quit, without asking or checking to see if ti was a mistake, or if Player A didn't know any better, then they were wrong too. Especially since Player A never got the full notion of WHY it was wrong, and is quite possibly going to just keep doing it out of ignorance. I've accidentally hit Need on an item when I didn't need it, especially when people rush and start grabbing loot while the combat is still going on, and I do a quick perusal and mistakenly see a stat or requirement that wasn't correct. We should be a little tolerant of mistakes. And in a few instances, I've gone to my cargo to grab some purple items or some other items to try to give to the player that got shorted and try to make good on it. But there's no need to have to continue through a Flashpoint with a player who openly doesn't care about loot distribution and fairness. I was going to answer but this is the best answer possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thylbanus Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 That is one reason I love DDO, everybody gets their own loot. Chest is filled with loot, not just one or two items, but everyone gets the same amount in roughly the same catagory. i.e. everyone gets one rare item, one piece of armor, one type of ammo and some money. Everyone can see what the others got and barganing can happen to obtain desired items. Simple. The Need/Greed/Pass system is a failure as it causes too many player disputes. Can't dispute it when a computer divies up the pot. This situation never happens in DDO. The closest thing is Player A DESPERATLY wants item X and Player B who doesn't want to sell or trade. Unless Player A is a cry baby, it ends there. Even if it doesn't, Player A is always at fault for hounding someone for their fortune. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patchew Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 player A is a scummy little thief and hopefully got ignored by all the other players so that they dont get subjugated to his thievery again. i do hope the server knows all about it so A can be shunned by all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patchew Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 It's really simple: All pug team from group finder? Roll whatever floats your boat. Pug in a guild premade? Ask before you roll, or better, ask before you start the ops/fp. Yea because its best to treat non-guildies like scum. You forget, your nasty behaviour would shine a bad light on your entire guild, let alone the officers. If any guildie of mine did that, they would no longer be a member .. i can assure you. Player A is a bad player and you shouldnt encourage this behaviuor because they will do it all the way through their time on the game and upset lots of other players. Player A was completely wrong in all ways, dont encourage such ninja-ry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
utio Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 player A is a scummy little thief and hopefully got ignored by all the other players so that they dont get subjugated to his thievery again. i do hope the server knows all about it so A can be shunned by all. In your opinion, of course. There are people that regard companions as part of your character, bioware included. You should be a bit more respectful to other's opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aresnar Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 I do two things in regards to this issue. 1) Wait. If a class chest/item drops and a member of that class is present and needs I generally just greed as I assume they really need it. If I see that they greed roll it then I politely ask in chat can I need that for my companion/RP/Vanity needs? Generally I get told sure go ahead. 2) Ask up front or let people know at least. In particular I ran BT exclusively from Level 12-20 and I still run occasionally to this day hoping for the Juggernaut Chest to drop. If I am in a group, I make it plain up front / at start that I don't care that I am level 30 now and they are wearing level 10 greens from Korriban, I will be rolling need on that mythical chest if it drops. Again most groups are ok with this. If they aren't I leave politely. Asking at time of Drop or Just making it plain up front tends to avoid these situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Styxx Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 (edited) Player A is a bounty hunter in an Athiss pug. The second boss drops an agent chest. Two other bounty hunters roll greed. Player A rolls need for his companion Mako. Player B is a bounty hunter tank who greeded on that chest. He cusses player A and he and the other Bounty hunter (his buddy) leave the group. What is your view on this? Player A is wrong. Player B is very young. Players B and C are some precious princesses, however; or think they are. This being said, the correct way is to need on your gear and greed on anything else, or ask if you can need for comp if nobody has the class needed for the drop. Ideally, look at other stats other than your main one, too. Because, if 2 BH`s roll need on an AIM piece, but only one needs DEF RATE or SHIELD, then one of them is in the wrong. Edited October 5, 2012 by Styxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petnil Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 i dont get the problem. Noone else needed right ? Ok player A should have asked, but if he waits and see´s noone else needing then i dont see much of a problem. It´s companion gear. Who cares. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patchew Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 In your opinion, of course. There are people that regard companions as part of your character, bioware included. You should be a bit more respectful to other's opinions. he asked for my opinion, i gave it. I made no judgement about the OP or any other poster. You, however, just did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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