The real problems with the current state of PVP

[scrynen]

I haven't had any fluidity issues, but yeah CC is out of hand. It's like WoWs was before diminishing returns. The problem is that resolve is just poorly designed. It only activates after everyone has used their stuns/cc, so I'm only immune to them while they're on cooldown, which is pretty much useless.

[RaptorClown]

imo there are no problems with balancing, problem is mostly with players who charge alone versus the army or players who don't fallow those.

so far 1vs1 i was unbeatable in pvp as a sith jug, but when i fight without heals vs 5 enemies and my supporters just run away without reason that sucks butt and i can at least admit that some cc are too long, and unleash i kinda useless crap cause of that

[mimbs]

this thread is a joke. if you honestly think there is too much cc you are doing something wholly wrong. The resolve bar is so good that it would not matter if bioware doubled the amount of cc in the game, it'd still be acceptable.

[SpacegodziIIa]

What's WoW? Sounds like some terribly old dated game that doesn't have the balls to make anything but fanboy expansions. Wouldn't want to risk having to pump out a new engine that has to run on something newer than a 90's comp? Pandas anyone? CC needs some work all in all for a game that hasn't launched yet damn good job.

 

PS: going 5v1 and wondering why you get locked and rocked is your problem. j/s

[asmox]

can ya give them some time... jesus the game is BRAND NEW. **** takes time.

 

L2Patience. their not going to cater to 5% of the hardcore pvp population before they get bugs/servers/ and everything else that's more important than pvp.

 

yes i do like pvp, yes i play competitive, i can post all my glad seasons too even though that's meaningless.

 

bottom line. this was not designed as a pvp game. it will take time for them to address our concerns. wow pvp wasn't built in 5days of pre-game time it took them years and their still *********** with it all the time

[Violationn]

WoW pvp'er wants SWTOR pvp to act and respond like WoW pvp. In 2 weeks im sure you will want arenas and rated warzones too.. You can't learn something new? A different global cooldown makes you nerd rage??? If wow pvp is so good why are you here?

 

NEXT TOPIC PLEASE

Edited December 20, 2011 by Violationn

[Obiwanwillpwnme]

The amount of CC is absolutely killing PvP for me.

 

When I play a game, I like to be able to control my character's actions- the battle should be about selecting the right actions and responses, not sitting there completely locked down for a good section of the fight.

 

Before raging at me to "go back to WoW", understand the reason people post here is because we want to enjoy this aspect of the game, which is pretty difficult currently.

[AlkalineKitten]

WoW pvp'er wants SWTOR pvp to act and respond like WoW pvp. In 2 weeks im sure you will want arenas and rated warzones too.. You can't learn something new? A different global cooldown makes you nerd rage??? If wow pvp is so good why are you here?

 

NEXT TOPIC PLEASE

 

The responsiveness is PvE issue, too. It just feels...floaty.

[McBubble]

bump for justice

[Sanqk]

Signed. But i've got a desperate feeling that it's more of a core issue (the responsiveness) and it's not likely to be fixed by a patch :l Something we need to get used to I guess.

[Mifflaff]

This may just be me asking a terribly noobish question, but is it a way to remove sticky target?

 

Ive searched the options but i cant find it sticky target is **** in pvp...

 

 

More on topic tho. Kudos on the term wowfarm, its a genuis way of describing that ehhh... well wowfarm

[Nanasombria]

1) The WOWFARM (World of Warcraft Fluidity and Responsiveness Metric) is a 6/10 at best. It is incredibly frustrating to go through your spell rotation even in a PVE scenario only to find out that 1/2 of the spells didn't go off because of poor responsiveness. This will push pvper's away from this game fast if not addressed. You see it as the number one concern time and time again as was demonstrated in games like AOC & Warhammer Online that had particularly bad WOWFARM ratings.

 

2) Status notifications are non-existant. Whether you're snared, rooted, stunned or otherwise impaired most spells don't have obvious status indicators. This would go a long way toward improving the WOWFARM score in and of itself.

 

3) Targeting is made difficult by small selection collision boxes. You have to be extremely exacting in clicking on a target. This problem exists in PVE but is more of an issue in PVP. The indicators for your selected target are also pretty poor. In a group of people it's often hard to tell which one you've actually targeted.

 

4) There is too much cc. No matter what class you are, if you've done any pvp, you know all about getting locked and rocked in this game. It's worse even than it was in AOC and that's saying something. A cc breaking skill with a long cooldown and no sustained cc immunity does not fix this problem.

 

EDIT:

There seem to be recurring themes in the responses.

 

1) Go back to wow.

 

2) If you're fighting 14,000 versus 1 obviously your going to die.

 

Responses

 

1) I haven't played wow for 5 years. I don't plan on going back. It had many of it's own problems. I appreciated it's fluidity and responsiveness. In the pursuit of having an intelligent conversation I made up the term WOWFARM (World of Warcraft Fluidity and Responsiveness Metric) so that people could continue having the conversation without have to say "Well this amorphous thing that I can't quite describe regarding the game not being responsive and fluid to play and sometimes when I use things it takes time but other times things happen that I pressed a while ago but I" and you get the point. It's meant to improve the dialogue not to detract from it. Stop focusing on the fact that the word world of warcraft appears in it.

 

2) The cc 2v1 is enough for complete lock and rock. I'm not asking for no cc. I'm not asking to be a berserker demon who can take people 2v1. I'm asking to let me move my character and use my abilities so that I can die doing something 2v1.

 

Perfect thread. I agree more than 100% and all my feedback during the beta (permanent access) was in that way all the time. I am full pvp player and the main issues i found were these you talk about.

[AriasImmortal]

WoW pvp'er wants SWTOR pvp to act and respond like WoW pvp. In 2 weeks im sure you will want arenas and rated warzones too.. You can't learn something new? A different global cooldown makes you nerd rage??? If wow pvp is so good why are you here?

 

NEXT TOPIC PLEASE

 

The GCD is the same in both games (1.5 seconds), rated Warzones are going to be added in, and I really just want the UI to be less buggy/more responsive.

[yokubou]

I am playing Sith Sorcerer

 

It feels kinda annoying that casting 3 1.5 sec Lightning Strikes takes same time as 1 Lightning bolt and 2 Insta-casts.

 

Madness is based on insta cast procs and it is annoying that casting them punishes me this much. I just stand there doing nothing after each instant cast.

 

I rather go Lightning spec and just spam my Lightning Strikes not worrying about my insta-casts. Cause they take the same time.

[GamerSyi]

agreed 100%, please fix it asap.

[Repefe]

1) Frustrating to go through your spell rotation ? As a scoundrel I have to say no ... not frustrating at all.

2) Notifications yes ... some CC has badly visible effect. The root some class does it's like *** I am standing still and I have no idea why.

3) Targeting has room for improvement, but works.

4) No issue with the cc. PvP should be about abilities that matter ... not about I will do my rotation for 20 seconds, you will do yours, lets see who will win.

[Izichial]

I was going to make a topic called "PvP is a horror slideshow" but I guess that would be a duplicate thread, eh.

 

If fluidity and responsiveness (I was going to say the frequency of player positioning and ability use updates between clients and server, but I'm not sure if this is the technical reason or solution; in any case, OP did a good job of explaining it) was improved tenfold it might approach a "decent" level.

 

It even extends to PvE, although it's not as noticeable there. Other players and occasionally mobs do still warp around though, and your own abilities' going off can be very erratic at times.

 

Slideshow syndrome killed PvP in WAR for me. It was better but still an issue in Aion. It was even better but still not as good as WoW in Rift. After two warzones, I already feel that if not quickly addressed it will kill PvP in SW:TOR (which is as bad as WAR, if not worse) for me as well. Sure, PvP was something I still did until I quit those games (I didn't stay with any of them for very long, this was probably a contributing cause) but it's just impossible to take PvP seriously when play is like this.

 

Not to further derail the thread, but this was one thing WoW got right from the start, not through over half a dozen years of polishing. There were very short casts that were still possible to interrupt if you were fast enough (kicking fel domination, ho). Sure, some prediction required for the extremes (mentioned fel domination was 0.5sec), but the users' latency to the server is an acceptable handicap in MMOs - everyone around you constantly warping several meters and not being able to rely on the casting of your own abilities playing with consistent <~50ms is just a joke.

[GamerSyi]

1) Frustrating to go through your spell rotation ? As a scoundrel I have to say no ... not frustrating at all.

2) Notifications yes ... some CC has badly visible effect. The root some class does it's like *** I am standing still and I have no idea why.

3) Targeting has room for improvement, but works.

4) No issue with the cc. PvP should be about abilities that matter ... not about I will do my rotation for 20 seconds, you will do yours, lets see who will win.

 

I agree with what your saying but there comes a point in the game where theres too much CC, too little to conteract it, and the CD on CC is too short for the amount that there currently is

[Livianicen]

1) The WOWFARM (World of Warcraft Fluidity and Responsiveness Metric) is a 6/10 at best. It is incredibly frustrating to go through your spell rotation even in a PVE scenario only to find out that 1/2 of the spells didn't go off because of poor responsiveness. This will push pvper's away from this game fast if not addressed. You see it as the number one concern time and time again as was demonstrated in games like AOC & Warhammer Online that had particularly bad WOWFARM ratings.

 

Too true. The lack of World of Warcraft Telegraph & Fluidity (WOWTF) is a serious problem that I hope Bioware will address rapidly, or it will have serious and negative effects on the PvP future of the game. Too much stutter, bouncing around, issues with telepgrahing effects & spells, issues with throwing out interrupts etc, will destroy PvP if not corrected.

 

edit: This has nothing to do with wow per se. They just happened to get it right.

Edited December 20, 2011 by Livianicen

[Repefe]

I agree with what your saying but there comes a point in the game where theres too much CC, too little to conteract it, and the CD on CC is too short for the amount that there currently is

 

Maybe, but casting judgement on how much is there/shoud be there a week after the game pre launched ... that's just not enough time to explore all the possible PvP strategies. It's like saying the book is **** after you have read first 10 pages.

 

I get the arguments about the fluidness though I don't really have a problem with it, but commenting on the balance itself at this stage is premature.

[roflbear]

This needs locking.

[Draemos]

I support this thread. Although I don't think their is too much CC, I just think the resolve timer needs to be further tweaked.

 

Personally the (lack of) responsiveness and fluidity between skills is my #1 complaint.

Edited December 20, 2011 by Draemos

[GumBoil]

+1

 

Point 1 is a biggy. Combat is not as 'crisp' as it could be.

[Kesal]

I definitely agree, hard to time things just right when your abilities don't respond 80% of the time.

[DKDArtagnan]

The reason WoW was so responsive and fluid has to do with the talent and craftsmanship of Blizzard developers - before release.

 

I won't get into what game is better or whatever, as it's all irrelevant. All I know is that WoW is technically superior to pretty much any other MMO out there - and Bioware doesn't have that kind of technical talent. They do have much better writers and such, but that's something else.

 

So, it will never be like WoW in this way.