The real problems with the current state of PVP

[Cirslis]

So far, under lvl30, I see no reasson playing a melee class. Not sure how it is at max lvl.

As poster above mentioned, You get stuned/slowed and what not, without a chance to do anything serious to your oponent. And I'm talking about warzones.

It's very frustrating.

And yes, response is too slow.

[ZeusThunder]

This is why your opinion does not matter in the slightest regarding PvP if it is to be changed for the better.

 

Good post; Obviously it's better to get feedback from people who have played PvP heavily in other MMO's rather then people who PvP in TOR.

For example, being an expert of PvP in WoW makes that person the most qualified to offer suggestions for improvement in TOR since the goal is to make TOR PvP exactly the same as other MMO's have done it. /end sarcasm

[Kromzor]

1. L2P

 

2. Kinda

 

3. part kinda, part L2P

 

4. Yeah... 1 2min CC break Vs every class having 2-3+ hard CC's on 45-60sec CD. And don't give me that crap about not being able to live through focus fire in the first place. If you've popped other survivability CDs like 25% less damage, AoE 20% miss chance, etc that should buy you an extra 5+ seconds of life, and thus a chance at getting out of LOS, more heals, capping the huttball, etc etc.

[Kronus]

So far, under lvl30, I see no reasson playing a melee class. Not sure how it is at max lvl.

As poster above mentioned, You get stuned/slowed and what not, without a chance to do anything serious to your oponent. And I'm talking about warzones.

It's very frustrating.

And yes, response is too slow.

 

There are definitely things that you can do as a melee class in the current state of affairs. Every class suffers from the problems I mentioned in the original post. I played a few classes in beta and it's hard to understand their side of things without having had done so. You're leap ability is very hard for other classes to deal with and getting a melee character off once they are on is quite difficult. DPS'ing though generally was easier as a ranged character in pvp. As a melee character I would get near the bottom of the damage charts. As a ranged character I would get near the top of the damage charts. So in that regard you are correct.

[romeemperor]

4) I don't think there is too much cc, but I see what you're getting at. A cc immunity after being cc'ed for around 3-5 seconds would fix this problem. It isn't that people have too many cc abilities, it's just that players are getting smarter and learning to chain CC by waiting for the current CC to finish before using another one.

 

.

 

This is what resolve is for. Also, my jedi guardian doesnt care about cc. unless its 3+vs 1, they die anyways.

Edited December 19, 2011 by romeemperor

[Kronus]

1. L2P

 

2. Kinda

 

3. part kinda, part L2P

 

4. Yeah... 1 2min CC break Vs every class having 2-3+ hard CC's on 45-60sec CD. And don't give me that crap about not being able to live through focus fire in the first place. If you've popped other survivability CDs like 25% less damage, AoE 20% miss chance, etc that should buy you an extra 5+ seconds of life, and thus a chance at getting out of LOS, more heals, capping the huttball, etc etc.

 

1) Intelligent and meaningful contribution to the dialogue.

 

2) Intelligent and meaningful contribution to the dialogue.

 

3) Intelligent and meaningful contribution to the dialogue.

 

4) I assume your talking about knights/warriors here. You can't pop damage reduction skills when you are cc'd. If you've played the melee classes you'd know that there are few effective locations in the WZ's to break LOS and have it remain effective for more than 4 seconds. But still I don't know how damage reduction on a select few classes deals with the problem of CC at large in the game.

[sfryman]

To me, responsiveness is extremely important for enjoying pvp.

 

Warhammer was ruined for me due to this problem.

 

I agree that wow got it right, and this has something to do with Blizz's success. I do not know why so many other developers struggle with it; seems responsiveness should be pretty basic & very high priority.

 

That said, I have not noticed a significant responsiveness issue in swtor. I am still low level and have not done much pvp. After reading this thread I'm definately concerned.

[Ahoonda]

I do feel SWTOR is a great pve, console type game. I think they released that and will work out the kinks in Pvp as we go.

 

The constructive criticism of the OP will help with smoothing out the edges in time. For now enjoy the smoothness of the released pve game and keep providing suggestions on how to make Pvp and end game content improve.

 

I am certain just as many complains will be flowing about end game material once the majority get there.

 

Finally they MUST eventually fix the fluidity and enjoyment factor of PvP because many many people enjoy this part of mmo's.

[HerrFett]

Yes, you can think of WoW what you want, but you know damn well it's the most smooth running and responsive MMO out there.

 

^This.

 

I really miss that smoothness in SWTOR.

I hope Bioware can fix it fast.

[Obbu]

1) The WOWFARM (World of Warcraft Fluidity and Responsiveness Metric) is a 6/10 at best. It is incredibly frustrating to go through your spell rotation even in a PVE scenario only to find out that 1/2 of the spells didn't go off because of poor responsiveness. This will push pvper's away from this game fast if not addressed. You see it as the number one concern time and time again as was demonstrated in games like AOC & Warhammer Online that had particularly bad WOWFARM ratings.

 

 

The lag is a new occurence, wasnt anywhere near this bad in beta, even on the stress test weekend.

 

WAR didnt have particularly bad ability lag from memory - though i never played AOC pvp much, since they didnt have a real pvp system apart from the guild keeps at launch.

 

 

2) Status notifications are non-existant. Whether you're snared, rooted, stunned or otherwise impaired most spells don't have obvious status indicators. This would go a long way toward improving the WOWFARM score in and of itself.

 

 

I think that there is definitely room for a generic 'status bar' that can be toggled, with lights for 'rooted' 'stunned' 'mezzed' etc, that pop up for easy reference.

 

The buff/debuff icons in this game are very small - which cuts down on UI clutter, but makes them difficult to take advantage of.

 

Class-centric key buffs like tactical advantage also need some UI attention.

 

 

3) Targeting is made difficult by small selection collision boxes. You have to be extremely exacting in clicking on a target. This problem exists in PVE but is more of an issue in PVP. The indicators for your selected target are also pretty poor. In a group of people it's often hard to tell which one you've actually targeted.

 

 

There have been some suggestions about how to make targeting easier - such as larger nameplate buttons etc.

 

I personally believe a bit of work on the tab-targeting system would go a long way.

 

 

4) There is too much cc. No matter what class you are, if you've done any pvp, you know all about getting locked and rocked in this game. It's worse even than it was in AOC and that's saying something. A cc breaking skill with a long cooldown and no sustained cc immunity does not fix this problem.

 

 

Disagree - stunlocks are exceedingly rare - some classes have very little CC at all.

 

However, the CC break that everyone gets really should provide a temporary CC immunity, even if it is only for a few seconds.

 

 

EDIT:

There seem to be recurring themes in the responses.

 

1) Go back to wow.

 

2) If you're fighting 14,000 versus 1 obviously your going to die.

 

Responses

 

1) I haven't played wow for 5 years. I don't plan on going back. It had many of it's own problems. I appreciated it's fluidity and responsiveness. In the pursuit of having an intelligent conversation I made up the term WOWFARM (World of Warcraft Fluidity and Responsiveness Metric) so that people could continue having the conversation without have to say "Well this amorphous thing that I can't quite describe regarding the game not being responsive and fluid to play and sometimes when I use things it takes time but other times things happen that I pressed a while ago but I" and you get the point. It's meant to improve the dialogue not to detract from it. Stop focusing on the fact that the word world of warcraft appears in it.

 

 

"compared to wow" always got the point across to me making an acronym doesnt make the concept any less amorphous.

 

 

2) The cc 2v1 is enough for complete lock and rock. I'm not asking for no cc. I'm not asking to be a berserker demon who can take people 2v1. I'm asking to let me move my character and use my abilities so that I can die doing something 2v1.

 

Again, i disagree - but it can be a bit dependant on you getting a mez off before they CC you, if you all have cooldowns available, which is the minority of the time - even on CC heavy classes.

 

Stunlocks are exceedingly rare - ive only ever had it happen as a ball carrier in huttball, when i was being attacked by an entire team.

[Idiots]

OP, you really shouldnt make post comparing swtor to wows pvp when you are at best a 1600 mage/rogue. Bad is still bad. l2p

[Kronus]

OP, you really shouldnt make post comparing swtor to wows pvp when you are at best a 1600 mage/rogue. Bad is still bad. l2p

 

Thanks for your meaningful input to the dialogue.

[Serendipitus]

Can someone point me to where this WOWFARM is officially described? I understand what it means and WoW does have a good response system. With this game, I found setting the queue window to 0 helped tremendously. I hear alot how people are getting lag when they do things like interrupt and then the interrupt will not interrupt the cast and be wasted. I haven't experienced this at all so I cannot comment. Mainly I just want to know how this WOWFARM rating is calculated out of curiousity.

[Kronus]

Can someone point me to where this WOWFARM is officially described? I understand what it means and WoW does have a good response system. With this game, I found setting the queue window to 0 helped tremendously. I hear alot how people are getting lag when they do things like interrupt and then the interrupt will not interrupt the cast and be wasted. I haven't experienced this at all so I cannot comment. Mainly I just want to know how this WOWFARM rating is calculated out of curiousity.

 

Lol. It's just a term I made up for brevity and clarity. I am regretting choosing something that uses wow in the name as people have such visceral nerdy b0ner reactions to it. It's just meant to encapsulate everything relating to fluidity and responsiveness in a game. How jerky animations are, how much time it takes for skills to launch when you press them, etc.

 

It definitely is not an official term of any sort but seeing people struggle to describe it every time they mean to say something like it spurred me to give it my best effort.

Edited December 19, 2011 by Kronus

[Wythern]

the responsiveness is crap, when i click a GC ability with a Non GC ability they should both go through, but 9/10 times they dont and i end up having to wait .5-1 sec anyway just to click the Non Global Cooldown ability.

 

I sure hope marauders pick up at 50, currently at 28 i have 2 cc's only, the other 2-3 that say they stun only seem to work in PVE. The amount of CC every other class ive encountered seems to be rediculous in comparison to my measily Force Charge root and Force Choke.

[neocoma]

1. agree though not gamebreaking...i think some of this has to do with timing....and a lot of ppl have gotten used to the 1.5 sec gcd yet

 

 

Dude this is gamebreaking. It gets even worse thanks to warzone lags which is there till beta and not yet adressed either. You can say what you want about WoW, how bad it is or how ugly, how screwed up the lore is and whatnot but gameplay in WoW has set standards and everyone who played WoW for a longer period just does not want to miss the fluid gameplay. This is a gamebreaking issue. This plus lag which doubles or triples the effect.

[Kronus]

the responsiveness is crap, when i click a GC ability with a Non GC ability they should both go through, but 9/10 times they dont and i end up having to wait .5-1 sec anyway just to click the Non Global Cooldown ability.

 

I sure hope marauders pick up at 50, currently at 28 i have 2 cc's only, the other 2-3 that say they stun only seem to work in PVE. The amount of CC every other class ive encountered seems to be rediculous in comparison to my measily Force Charge root and Force Choke.

 

I've definitely experience this problem with retaliation on the marauder.

[heinywb]

1 - I'm sorry but...I'm trying not to be mean here but there are those of us that are actually really good at PvP and it is entirely game breaking when....you can't play the game.

 

i jsut dont think its as bad as u make it out to be but thanks for assuming im some terribad because i dont completely agree with u

[Kronus]

i jsut dont think its as bad as u make it out to be but thanks for assuming im some terribad because i dont completely agree with u

 

Ya I don't feel his assumption was really necessary either =/.

[Swie]

Exactly my thoughts OP.

[Xsorus]

I bumped the spell queue down to zero and i've not had any problems..

 

Then again I don't click my abilities, so that could be it.

[hunterofgunmen]

Agreed, I can't say how many times in pvp I'd have to completely stop moving and put all my focus into trying to click my next target because it's out of "tab" range or it's a player in a mob of other enemy players. I lose all situational awareness when I have to do this, and I can't just tab through the other players because most of the time in a group you can't tell who you have targeted. These issues need to get fixed. I've also noticed the issue with poor responsiveness. Not sure if this has been answered yet because I didn't read all the posts, but the game does que up skills. You can choose the length of que in the menu options.

[heinywb]

Dude this is gamebreaking. It gets even worse thanks to warzone lags which is there till beta and not yet adressed either. You can say what you want about WoW, how bad it is or how ugly, how screwed up the lore is and whatnot but gameplay in WoW has set standards and everyone who played WoW for a longer period just does not want to miss the fluid gameplay. This is a gamebreaking issue. This plus lag which doubles or triples the effect.

 

dude calm down.....i could care less about wow. the reason i said it wasnt gamebreaking is because it can be worked around.....its constant....and u know its there.....it takes some work and its frustrating as hell but everyone is experiencing it not just u or I.

 

yes it could be better but i can deal with it for now

Edited December 19, 2011 by heinywb

[Kronus]

I bumped the spell queue down to zero and i've not had any problems..

 

Then again I don't click my abilities, so that could be it.

 

I lol'ed at the clicking bit. But many of us have set the ability queue to zero and still experience frequent problems. Setting the queueing to 0 only prevents events that you've hit in the past from activating later. It does nothing for the responsiveness of spells in real-time.

[Tuckered]

Agreed, responsiveness is something that needs fixing. Still a lot of fun to play though. My instant cast gut ability takes about 2-3 seconds sometimes.