Lack of Content?

[Jableson]

After 7 years Yes

After 10 months since Launch No

 

People expect an MMO to be in state after 7 expansions in Beta.

Kids these days that ADD is getting to you.

 

My source http://wowvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Patchnotes.List&category_select_id=3

 

after the same time release WoW was in 1.7.

 

SWTOR has the following "endgame" content. (no, different difficulties does NOT mean NEW content) and this is not including WZ's/BG's

eternity vault - 8, 16 players - 5 boss encounter

Karaggas Palace - 8, 16 players - 5 bosses

Explosive Conflict - 8, 16 players - 4 bosses

Terror From Beyond - 8, 16 players - 5 bosses

19 total completely different boss encounters.

 

Very similar timeline for WoW

Molten Core - 40 players - 10 bosses

Blackwing Layer - 40 players - 10 bosses

Zul'Gurub - 20 players - 8 bosses

Upper Blackrock Spire - 15players - 7 Bosses

(I am including UBRS because at the time was widely played as a 15man "instance")

 

Draw your own conclusions as to who had more content after the same amount of release time. I believe its pretty self explanitory why people complain so much as to why THIS game has so little content.

[Lionflash]

Draw your own conclusions as to who had more content after the same amount of release time. I believe its pretty self explanitory why people complain so much as to why THIS game has so little content.

 

Can I just say 1 thing in SWTOR's defense? --and this is just my opinion.

 

SWTOR's FPs and OPs are much more cinematic and interesting than WOWs...--yes, the epicness will eventually run dry after a few playthroughs but the same could be said for WOWs, and they kinda make me want to be done with them after the first runthrough.

 

I feel like it requires a lot more work to make a SWTOR OP.

[CosmicKat]

 

End game "stuff" is more important than leveling "stuff" IMO. I've been level 50 since the 1st month on my only toon (until recently). 9 of my 10 months playing has been AT level cap...of course I want stuff to do there. Endgame needs to be more than 4 rotating boxes for PvP and 2 'challenging' Ops that you can only do once a week.

 

MMO's shouldn't only be about level 1-XX, they are long term games (years!!!), not single player 15-30 day games. I'd say 90-95% of this game has been "completed" by the time a player reaches 50. With no ability to go back and do quests again, that leaves a crap ton of content VERY underutilized.

 

Truthfully...I feel MMOs would be better off getting out of the whole "leveling" mentality and focusing instead on a skill progression model.

 

I understand your point but what you are really asking for is a entirely new vision of what an MMO is.

 

Virtually every MMO running today is a copy of Everquest. They've modified the original template to meet the demands of the players but it is still that same EQ template. The primary aspect of EQ was the levelling game. They haven't replaced that with anything, they just keep making it easier and easier.

 

If they keep using this template then they have to, for their sake and ours, ensure that the levelling part of the game is much longer than it is. I would say if it took the average MMO player 6 months to level to max, they would be doing a giant favor to their business and our fun.

 

A game like you describe would probably accomplish the same goals, but it would require things not particularly common in the game industry... risk taking and innovation.

[JacksonMo]

You guys who raced through content to level 50 in the first few weeks of the game after release should stop and consider that there is alot of story at every level of the game, not just class story.

Every quest... EVERY QUEST has some sort of story involved.

If you hit level 50 in less than a month, you space-barred through 90% of the content you're complaining doesn't exist!!

Not only that, the class stories are tied together! If you don't play them, you'll never know the connection between the smuggler story and sith warrior! (No spoilers please)

If you guys hate the game so much, please for the love of God, just leave. You'll be griping about the next game in two weeks, just like the people I know who rushed to play GW2.

Seriously! You race through 90% of the game, wearing your space bar out, and then you whine like a 12 year old that there's nothing to do.

Roll and alt, and slow down! Take time to watch the cut scenes. There really are some interesting mini-stories along the way.

[Urael]

I understand your point but what you are really asking for is a entirely new vision of what an MMO is.

 

Virtually every MMO running today is a copy of Everquest. They've modified the original template to meet the demands of the players but it is still that same EQ template. The primary aspect of EQ was the levelling game. They haven't replaced that with anything, they just keep making it easier and easier.

 

If they keep using this template then they have to, for their sake and ours, ensure that the levelling part of the game is much longer than it is. I would say if it took the average MMO player 6 months to level to max, they would be doing a giant favor to their business and our fun.

 

A game like you describe would probably accomplish the same goals, but it would require things not particularly common in the game industry... risk taking and innovation.

 

I agree I would like it to take longer to level. I would not want to make it "grindy" just add more "leveling" content on the path to level CAP.

 

There was a game that played like "end game" from the beginning and that was Pre-CU SWG. No levels, skills based, sandbox. But, it seems todays gamers ( on average ) don't want this kind of game.

 

[Jableson]

Can I just say 1 thing in SWTOR's defense? --and this is just my opinion.

 

SWTOR's FPs and OPs are much more cinematic and interesting than WOWs...--yes, the epicness will eventually run dry after a few playthroughs but the same could be said for WOWs, and they kinda make me want to be done with them after the first runthrough.

 

I feel like it requires a lot more work to make a SWTOR OP.

 

I agree, thats why i still play this game. I was just simply stating information from my source to give those who were wondering why people were saying lack of content. I used WoW because this game is basically a cookie cutter WoW set with a star wars skin.

 

i just seem to remember that it was a server rarity (at least on my server) that guilds downed Rag before BWL was released (if the ectually ever did down him before BWL released). In this game i play with extraordinarly casual people who i like as people and could care less what there skill level was and yet we still already half cleared TFB.

[simplius]

You guys who raced through content to level 50 in the first few weeks of the game after release should stop and consider that there is alot of story at every level of the game, not just class story.

Every quest... EVERY QUEST has some sort of story involved.

If you hit level 50 in less than a month, you space-barred through 90% of the content you're complaining doesn't exist!!

Not only that, the class stories are tied together! If you don't play them, you'll never know the connection between the smuggler story and sith warrior! (No spoilers please)

If you guys hate the game so much, please for the love of God, just leave. You'll be griping about the next game in two weeks, just like the people I know who rushed to play GW2.

Seriously! You race through 90% of the game, wearing your space bar out, and then you whine like a 12 year old that there's nothing to do.

Roll and alt, and slow down! Take time to watch the cut scenes. There really are some interesting mini-stories along the way.

 

i agree,,and furthermore they often work in teams, so any PVE content, will be a cakewalk for them

 

so when the casual solo player has trouble some places they just laugh and give the usual "L2P noob"

 

and theyre also loud enough to make most devs go the way they want

 

the results of that should be obvious by now

[TUXs]

I agree I would like it to take longer to level. I would not want to make it "grindy" just add more "leveling" content on the path to level CAP.

 

There was a game that played like "end game" from the beginning and that was Pre-CU SWG. No levels, skills based, sandbox. But, it seems todays gamers ( on average ) don't want this kind of game.

 

 

I was honestly not trying to pimp Pre-CU SWG, but the idea was sound IMO. I just hate seeing the massive amount of content SWTOR does offer, limited to once-and-done quests.

[CosmicKat]

I agree I would like it to take longer to level. I would not want to make it "grindy" just add more "leveling" content on the path to level CAP.

 

There was a game that played like "end game" from the beginning and that was Pre-CU SWG. No levels, skills based, sandbox. But, it seems todays gamers ( on average ) don't want this kind of game.

 

 

There are versions of "grindy".

 

I wasn't a huge fan of EQ, despite the comparisons I make to it. I found it got very grindy after like level 30 but that had more to do with the extreme time required than the content. TOR I find grindier than most other MMO's I've played because it is just so mind-meltingly boring to wade through mob's like a I'm a Jedi lawnmower in a field of Imperial dandelions.

[Urael]

There are versions of "grindy".

 

I wasn't a huge fan of EQ, despite the comparisons I make to it. I found it got very grindy after like level 30 but that had more to do with the extreme time required than the content. TOR I find grindier than most other MMO's I've played because it is just so mind-meltingly boring to wade through mob's like a I'm a Jedi lawnmower in a field of Imperial dandelions.

 

I agree, and TBH because of the extreem about of "yard work" this game actually physically makes me tired!

Edited September 27, 2012 by Urael

[JacksonMo]

i agree,,and furthermore they often work in teams, so any PVE content, will be a cakewalk for them

 

so when the casual solo player has trouble some places they just laugh and give the usual "L2P noob"

 

and theyre also loud enough to make most devs go the way they want

 

the results of that should be obvious by now

 

I know several of the former guild members, who initially founded Tribunal, started out on other games together. So they played through much of the content and quit months before I even got to 50.

I had the unfortunate experience of "meeting" them in vent one night.

The original GM was still letting us use his vent at the time.

They were apparently pvping in some other game, and the nerd-rage was off the chart.

They achieved "server first" on nearly all of the content, but there's no way I would want to have been in that guild while they were still the main people. And I'm sure they would have booted me half way through the first raid, after giving me a thorough chewing out.

We've evolved into a considerably more laid-back and helpful guild.

[dayhak]

Why do people always bring up that there is lack of content while discussing and trying to compare this game to other MMO's? People do you forget what WOW had when first released? Not much. This MMO is in its first year for god sakes. Be Glad they are doing these free mini expansions and not charging like oh say Blizzard would do to you.. the only gripe i have is the cost of perks.. they lowered the legacy requirements but the cost of some of the stuff is insane! im a casual player to moderate playing time.. i dont get how people have millions of creds sittin around.. im jelly.. sorry for getting a little off topic

 

This argument has been used over and over by people trying to convince everyone how great Bioware and EA are... Or how great this game is... The fact is that this game has a embarrassing low amount of content once you hit level 50. Save for a few raids, same 4 pvp arenas over and over and dailies over and over there is nothing to do... MMO's are supposed to be at their strongest when you reach max level, this game is by far at its weakest...

 

You cannot compare this game to vanilla WoW. WoW launched what 8 years ago now? That would be like me comparing an xbox 360 game to a super nintendo game than complaining that the super nintendo game didnt have as much content, didnt look as good etc. Its a moot point

 

The reality is, this game really is quite fun when ya first start playing... The story is blast for each class that I have played so far... I love the all voice over's... I think its very unique and engaging... I think the game is generally a lot of fun, until you have finished your class story, than it becomes painfully boring and 1 year after launch its disappointing that more content has not been released... Whats more its disappointing to keep hearing "new content is coming but we can't tell you when, or even give you any real substantial information on it"...

 

Lets take this latest expansion as an example. 1 raid and a bunch of quality of life updates... Thats the best that can be done? Almost a year after launch? Give me a break!

 

And the argument of "don't blast through content in a few days than complain there is nothing to do?" I seriously did not blast through content... I listened to every quest my first playthrough... As i level my alts, I still listen to each class quest and more often than not I listen to all conversations during flashpoints... I have 2 50's and currently working on my 3rd alt at level 44... I don't even bother logging on to my 50's anymore...

 

I do love this game but its because I am a star wars fan... If I wasn't a Star Wars fan, this game would not have enough to keep me subscribed... And I suspect most feel the same way I do, hence the bleeding of subs over the last 7 months

[revansowns]

Well If I was making an MMO, id certainly make a lot more content than any other MMO out there, and I wouldnt waste time and money on dialogue and cutscenes.

 

This has got to be the worst post of the day

[Meglivorn]

Actually there's not much more to do in wow endgame than swtor.

Battlegrounds (I think it has 6 by now after 7 years), daily quests, heroic instances and raids. Oh and of course pokemon fights since thuesday. (No I don't have any problem with that, just it's a new thing.) And you can hunt achievements, some people find pointless but for a lot it's really fun.

 

The only thing swtor really lacking in comparison that wow raids are much bigger. I do think it was a good idea that an operation in swtor built for one night program, with 4-5 bosses. Makes the group organizing much easier and manageble. But then, those 4-5 bosses are not enough when its the only thing to do for months.

So, the smaller ops are a good thing but the game needs more of those smaller ops. So in the months between the content expansions there is actually a 10-20 boss to farm.

For example, if I know correctly, Pandaria came out with 3 raids, 6-6-4 bosses. Dragon Soul, the last raid of cata had 8 bosses, but after almost a year without new content, people complained a lot. We had 4 bosses for 5 months. Now that's the problem.

And yes, a content expansion should come with more 4man group content too.

 

I really like this game and I stand by that the leveling content and the initial content (with 1.0 in January) was more than any other mmo around. But sadly an mmo release is just the beginning and the endgame content is lacking

( I personally would welcome a lot of quality of life features like sittable chairs, chat bubbles, talk (/say) animations. Minigames like pazaak and sabacc, swoopracing. Things that not part of the Story and the galactic events but give the players something to do while waiting for groupmates, and a feel of real life in the galaxy. - Like the pointless but fun achievements and the pokemon fight.)

[tolaf]

Comparing the state of an MMO when it was launched in 2004 is stupid when talking about an MMO that launched in 2011.

[jcopeland]

My source http://wowvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Patchnotes.List&category_select_id=3

 

after the same time release WoW was in 1.7.

 

SWTOR has the following "endgame" content. (no, different difficulties does NOT mean NEW content) and this is not including WZ's/BG's

eternity vault - 8, 16 players - 5 boss encounter

Karaggas Palace - 8, 16 players - 5 bosses

Explosive Conflict - 8, 16 players - 4 bosses

Terror From Beyond - 8, 16 players - 5 bosses

19 total completely different boss encounters.

 

Very similar timeline for WoW

Molten Core - 40 players - 10 bosses

Blackwing Layer - 40 players - 10 bosses

Zul'Gurub - 20 players - 8 bosses

Upper Blackrock Spire - 15players - 7 Bosses

(I am including UBRS because at the time was widely played as a 15man "instance")

 

Draw your own conclusions as to who had more content after the same amount of release time. I believe its pretty self explanitory why people complain so much as to why THIS game has so little content.

 

This is very incorrect!

 

When WoW released on Nov 23rd 2004, hardly any of the items were in game.

 

In Dec. they added the LEVELING instance Mauradon.

 

In March of 2005 they added the LEVELING instance of Dire Maul.

 

In June of 2005 they launched the FIRST battlegrounds, Warsong Gulch and Alterac Valley......7 months after release they had released the FIRST WZ's.

 

In July the Black Wing Lair raid was added.

 

Sept. Zul'Gurub raid addedas well as the Arathi Basin battleground.

 

So , actually wow released with little to no pvp (Tauren Mill anyone?) and only 2 raids, Molten Core and Black Wing Spire.....I might even throw in Onyxia...but I am not sure if it was with original launch.

 

I'll give ya they are about = on content after 10 months, but SWTOR released with much more.

Edited September 28, 2012 by jcopeland

[Mowermanx]

wow had more content at launch, look at how long it took for the first to ding 60

 

here it only took a month or so,,yes i know players have improved , but not that much

 

No, just no.

I played wow for 4 months after it released, there was way less end game content.

Yes, it took much longer to get to max level, but that just meant more bear pelts(mind numbing grind) to pick up, and nothing to do with end game content.

[LogicalPremise]

Why do people always bring up that there is lack of content while discussing and trying to compare this game to other MMO's? People do you forget what WOW had when first released? Not much. This MMO is in its first year for god sakes. Be Glad they are doing these free mini expansions and not charging like oh say Blizzard would do to you.. the only gripe i have is the cost of perks.. they lowered the legacy requirements but the cost of some of the stuff is insane! im a casual player to moderate playing time.. i dont get how people have millions of creds sittin around.. im jelly.. sorry for getting a little off topic

 

People bring it up because the market has changed since then.

People bring it up because no new end-game content has been added. Only more of the same, nothing sandbox.

People bring it up because other MMO's give you better value for the same money in that regard.

 

I'm more interested in why people keeping using this illogical argument to justify the paucity of actual , y'know, CONTENT since launch.

 

I'm not paying $15 for 5 years to get a decent MMO when there are other decent MMO's out there, and if you are, bully for you. But spare us the argument that we're being "unreasonable".

[Mowermanx]

I'm not paying $15 for 5 years to get a decent MMO when there are other decent MMO's out there.

Screaming and stamping your feet in an internet forum wont get you content any faster....

Why are you here again?

[LogicalPremise]

Screaming and stamping your feet in an internet forum wont get you content any faster....

Why are you here again?

 

I'm here for my forum PVP daily comms.

 

Telling people who are unhappy with the game that they're trolls and should quit / shut up isn't going to convince anyone of anything. I made a meaningful reply to the OP's stated question, you made a random inane troll comment that managed to not rebut anything I said while at the same time completely missing the point. I think the more important issue is why are you here posting?

 

If the response to any criticism is to imply all criticism must be wrong, you know you are not dealing with a rational population.

[Mowermanx]

I made a meaningful reply to the OP's stated question.

 

Um, lets see.

People bring it up because the market has changed since then.

I doubt anyone understands what this is meant to say?

 

People bring it up because no new end-game content has been added. Only more of the same, nothing sandbox.

Which is it? No new end game content, or none that you like? One is a straight out lie, and the other is personal preference. This is probably as far as you can get from meaningful, as you call it.

 

People bring it up because other MMO's give you better value for the same money in that regard.

Then that begs the question again, why the hell are you and these "people" here?

[JacksonMo]

People bring it up because the market has changed since then.

 

Not really. People have been griping and complaining endlessly. If they aren't surfing <bleep>, they are complaining. That pretty much covers most internet activity since the early 90's.

 

People bring it up because no new end-game content has been added. Only more of the same, nothing sandbox.

 

Really? They've added Koan Under siege, Lost island, Hard mode versions of most flashpoints, Explosive conflict, two limited time world events. And what was I doing just tonite? Let me think.... it couldn't possibly have been new content...

 

People bring it up because other MMO's give you better value for the same money in that regard.

 

Really? Like what? I know of several people who've tried out new games that have rolled out since SWTOR launched, and while there were some things they liked, can you guess why they were telling me what parts they liked IN GAME? Yea, they came back.

 

I'm more interested in why people keeping using this illogical argument to justify the paucity of actual , y'know, CONTENT since launch. .

 

pau·ci·ty/ˈpôsitē/

Noun:

The presence of something only in small or insufficient quantities or amounts; scarcity.

 

Seriously? Scroll back up and take another gander at the list of new content that doesn't exist and hasn't been released since launch. And that's just the stuff I'm aware of off the top of my head. And does not include significant chunks of 1.2 or 1.3. Nor does it include the battalion of ugnaughts laboring away fixing bugs, both large and small.

 

I'm sorry, but complaining that there's nothing new since they launched the game is, for lack of a better term, "unreasonable".

There's plenty I would like to see done differently. Plenty of things I would love to see added.

Just as an example, I think the game engine they chose to build the game around is so intense and resource taxing, they knowingly shut a huge segment of gamers out from the word go.

That's not too uncommon when a game first rolls out. And it will seem much less demanding on computers a few years from now, but only because by then, today's top end machine will be selling for $400 at wal-mart with a free printer.

A differnt game engine would have allowed more people to enjoy the game sooner, and I am certain a lot of people left because they just couldn't afford the upgrades needed to run the darned thing.

From early access until April, I played the game with single digit frame rates, until I could put together the overtime to buy a new video card and powersupply. It might have been sooner, but I had already spent money on upgrades to meet their stated system requiments, which, it turned out, would barely play the game at all. Even and lowest possible settings on a dead server.

So no, I'm not a mindless Bioware cheerleader.

But I'm not blind to progress, either.

Edited September 28, 2012 by JacksonMo

[NightBlizzard]

At least on SWTOR once you level to 50 - there is incentive to roll an alt (mainly because you have different class storylines) in WoW while I'm a bit of an altaholic still there as well - its gruesome and boring doing the same thing over and over and over and over.

 

Like others have said before - more endgame content will come, more events, maybe even a few more classes and races, legacy perks, ect. No one can tell the future so its better to stop trying to guess and just roll with it.

[odericko]

ive never played wow end game but im sure there's a lot more than this game.

 

Really? -_-

 

WoW has nearly a decade worth of endgame, yes, but they're released in "tiers". The amount of raids in a tier isn't much more than what we have now (sometimes even less). Once the new stuff comes all the old is obsolete and is only there for those that want to back and reminisce, really.

 

Content comes with updates. Updates come with time.

 

At least on SWTOR once you level to 50 - there is incentive to roll an alt (mainly because you have different class storylines) in WoW while I'm a bit of an altaholic still there as well - its gruesome and boring doing the same thing over and over and over and over.

 

Agree with this completely. I played WoW to max on a few characters. If I was in Horde, all my characters had a unique starter zone, but beyond that I had two options of zone choices if I was lucky for every level bracket, no matter if I was playing my Rogue, Mage, or whatever. At least Bioware gave classes a unique story to make leveling an alt fun.

Edited September 28, 2012 by odericko

[DarthDrachonus]

players of the post-wow era of mmo's have nobody but themselves (and blizzard) to blame for the lack of content in mmo's today.

 

- players demand simple and fast, that's what we have. Killing 50 mobs in tor can be done in 15 minutes. Killing 50 mobs in eq could take hours. This is content!

 

- players demand no travel downtime. This has been accomplished by a) instant quick travel and b) shrinking the world sizes from virtual countries to virtual golf courses. This is content!

 

- players demand spoon-fed quests. In tor, questgiver npc may as well be standing right beside questfinisher npc because a) usually there is no trick or challenge to getting to the questfinisher npc and b) a map shows you exactly where the npc is and exactly what path to take to reach it. This is content!

 

- players demand no penalties. Failing costs you nothing. No loss of xps, no loss of gear, and no time penalty. This is content!

 

- players used to consider the "levelling game" to be the game and the endgame to be what you did when you had finished the game. Now players have demanded the endgame is the game. The previously major part of what an mmo is has been reduced to a tutorial that prepares you for the endgame. This is content!

 

So... Don't blame bioware for "lack of content". Blame yourselves for demanding that mmo's be turned into something more like a solo console game. Bioware is only giving you what you have demanded.

 

^ qft.