No more knock back for Rocket Punch?

[Tim-ONeil]

Pretty sure the root is broken when you take damage. Which means this is wrong.

 

Damage caused after 2 seconds will break the effect. If you are fast enough I'll still take 4 ticks or so unless I jump away to another player as soon as my root is over. The AOE range is wide so I'll likely get the full blast.

 

It's not really a nerf in this scenario and you don't seem to get that. You used 2 skills before to do what you can now do with 1. AND it's even more effective because you can use your same combo knowing I can't move for 4 seconds, then hit me with your stun dart and my resolve won't be filled.

 

The only change to you is that you will actually have to move and key abilities, you know kite which is something that the good ranged players do anyway so I know you've got that down pat.

[Vikoon]

Damage caused after 2 seconds will break the effect. If you are fast enough I'll still take 4 ticks or so unless I jump away to another player as soon as my root is over. The AOE range is wide so I'll likely get the full blast.

 

It's not really a nerf in this scenario and you don't seem to get that. You used 2 skills before to do what you can now do with 1. AND it's even more effective because you can use your same combo knowing I can't move for 4 seconds, then hit me with your stun dart and my resolve won't be filled.

 

The only change to you is that you will actually have to move and key abilities, you know kite which is something that the good ranged players do anyway so I know you've got that down pat.

 

Kiting as a Merc is borderline impossible as it is. Almost all of our abilities are channeled, and we don't hit even near as hard as every other dps based class. My suggestion is that unless you played a Merc pre change and have endured the pain that we already endure as being the biggest joke in PvP already, that maybe you should just back off from something you clearly have no idea about. I don't tell you how to play your class so quit telling us how to play ours.

 

I can't believe that people make it so hard to realize that a 4 sec root that breaks on 2 sec if damage is USELESS FOR A RANGED CLASS. If I rocket punch a Marauder, he still hammers me for 4K - 5500 damage by the time i "get away". The game lags so bad in WZs half the time that they might even get me twice before this oh so great immobilize wears off. Powertechs should get it as a root, Mercs should keep it as a knockback. Why that is so hard to understand is beyond me and every other Merc that is enduring this no sense change.

[Tim-ONeil]

I actually have a grav round spec'd commando. I'm aware of all the the limitations of the profession, however this is not a nerf.

[Wraiven]

Damage caused after 2 seconds will break the effect. If you are fast enough I'll still take 4 ticks or so unless I jump away to another player as soon as my root is over. The AOE range is wide so I'll likely get the full blast.

 

It's not really a nerf in this scenario and you don't seem to get that. You used 2 skills before to do what you can now do with 1. AND it's even more effective because you can use your same combo knowing I can't move for 4 seconds, then hit me with your stun dart and my resolve won't be filled.

 

The only change to you is that you will actually have to move and key abilities, you know kite which is something that the good ranged players do anyway so I know you've got that down pat.

 

I'm not trying to make it sound like you are an idiot by any means here when I say this, but you seem to be unaware of the mechanics of Death from Above. I have to move away from you and set up to use Death from Above before I can use it, to set up alone would take every bit of two full seconds, (unless I am slowed) if not longer. You would take one tic and be out of there if I was lucky.

[Tim-ONeil]

I'm not trying to make it sound like you are an idiot by any means here when I say this, but you seem to be unaware of the mechanics of Death from Above. I have to move away from you and set up to use Death from Above before I can use it, to set up alone would take every bit of two full seconds, (unless I am slowed) if not longer. You would take one tic and be out of there if I was lucky.

 

I'm not an idiot I just have better gaming gear or skill I guess. I use a Logitech G13 gaming pad for all my abilities plus a naga mouse. Immediately after you hit me with your rocket punch you should be moving backwards away from me with your hand over the button you mapped for death from above and your pointer directly on the my feet. Since you are facing me, it should be a simple click click to set up.

 

It's skill based, and sometimes having the right tools makes it easier. I couldn't play this game nearly as efficiently without either of my peripherals. Additionally I have my own commando so I know what I'm talking about AND I throw the huttball with the same mechanic 20 times or more per day on my Guardian.

 

The bottom line is that you can play exactly like you did before, using those two moves to set up DFA. OR if you are quick enough/skilled enough you'll realize that you just gained another stun without sacrificing much.

Edited September 27, 2012 by Tim-ONeil

[Vikoon]

 

The bottom line is that you can play exactly like you did before, using those two moves to set up DFA. OR if you are quick enough/skilled enough you'll realize that you just gained another stun without sacrificing much.

 

Its not a stun, get that through your head. It is an immobilize and it is garbage. I also play with a Razer Naga and I have a Belkin N52te. So don't sit there and act like a hot shot just cause you have great peripherals. So do alot of us, and that has nothing to do with the fact that the IMMOBILIZE is garbage.

[Tim-ONeil]

Its not a stun, get that through your head. It is an immobilize and it is garbage. I also play with a Razer Naga and I have a Belkin N52te. So don't sit there and act like a hot shot just cause you have great peripherals. So do alot of us, and that has nothing to do with the fact that the IMMOBILIZE is garbage.

 

You got another STUN because you aren't wasting your stun dart in that situation anymore (hence it's available to you after you pull your combo). You'll adapt, I already have on my commando

[Wraiven]

You got another STUN because you aren't wasting your stun dart in that situation anymore (hence it's available to you after you pull your combo). You'll adapt, I already have on my commando

 

This obviously does not bother you one bit...does not bother you that even from an RP perspective, it does not make sense. The Knock back was a perfect animation for that ability...a stun? A root? Makes no sense. Some of us was happy with the way it was...some reason, it got changed. Would it hurt your feelings if it were changed back?

 

IDK, man. I just can't get over how they take away abilities completely and replace them with something else. You don't have this issue with console games, why do it to Online games?

 

To be honest, if they changed it to a knock down with a two second root after you get up, rather than a immobilize (even a knock down makes more sense than no knock at all, but would still prefer the knock back) I would have been happy. But this...meh.

 

I'll adapt, I already have...not like it's hard to adapt at all. Just because I can adapt does not mean that I should be ok with it. I am not.

Edited September 27, 2012 by Wraiven

[Briggs_Knightly]

Why hunters had meele root in wow? Try to kite.

 

It was impossible before 1.4. Not saying that now it is possible, but you just gained a 4 sec root on a 9 sec cooldown, try it, you may discover that this class has gained in mobility, which is exactly what it needed.

 

You mean a 2 second root... assuming you actually want to fight. The root breaks after 2 seconds if they take damage. If your goal is to always try and run from every mele class in the game you would be better off playing a different game. Biowarwe took our ability to kite away in patch 1.2 and it has only gotten worse since.

[Millem]

If in a game debate we have some quotes like "why someone would play Advanced Class X instead of Advanced Class Y?", because X is too clearly inferior and/or useless for a team; you can tell that this game lacks of a good development. In a PvP match, the hole fun consists exactly in a large variant of different play styles and classes to deal. But it seems that BW only wants to see Marauders/Sentinels, Tank Assassins/Shadows and Powertechs/Vanguards in a Warzone.

Untill 1.4, I thought that it was only because they are lazy enuff to fix it. But, after 1.4, I have no doubt that it was intentional. Maybe with only 4 or 5 different classes playing, the cost of a game server becomes cheaper...

[Briggs_Knightly]

Bioware needed to nerf PT/VG. They needed to buff Merc/Commando

 

Here is what happened: BIOWARE RUINED THE RANGED VERSION AND HAD ALMOST NO IMPACT OT THE MELE VERSION.

 

I can not believe that the people who make decisions for this company still have jobs. REALLY. If I performed my job as poorly as they have... i'd be on obama's pay to stay home plan right now. Can LucasArts transfer the rights to this game to someone (anyone) else before this game is dead??? LucusArts reputation is at stake here too.

 

Just so people here don't think I am complaining and not providing a viable solution... What should have happened is that all Merc Rocketpunches should include a knockback and Afterburners (2 point skill) should add a knockdown to the end of that. This would not be OP. It certainly would NOT scare any Warrior/Knight. It would provide an opportunity for a ranged class to survive a bit longer and possibly even have an impact for the group.

 

Bioware is so intent on keeping all classes the exact same that they don't get it. LOWERING THE STUN TO 10m ON A MELE CLASS IS NOT EQUAL TO A 10m STUN ON A RANGED CLASS. Giving a 4m root to a ranged class is asinine. If you want to give us a root.. give us a 20-30 m root. Hell, tie it to the interrupt (that I never wanted) so that it interrupts them in place for 2 seconds. Oh, wait... that would make the weakest class in the game OP, right???

[Vikoon]

Bioware needed to nerf PT/VG. They needed to buff Merc/Commando

 

Here is what happened: BIOWARE RUINED THE RANGED VERSION AND HAD ALMOST NO IMPACT OT THE MELE VERSION.

 

I can not believe that the people who make decisions for this company still have jobs. REALLY. If I performed my job as poorly as they have... i'd be on obama's pay to stay home plan right now. Can LucasArts transfer the rights to this game to someone (anyone) else before this game is dead??? LucusArts reputation is at stake here too.

 

Just so people here don't think I am complaining and not providing a viable solution... What should have happened is that all Merc Rocketpunches should include a knockback and Afterburners (2 point skill) should add a knockdown to the end of that. This would not be OP. It certainly would NOT scare any Warrior/Knight. It would provide an opportunity for a ranged class to survive a bit longer and possibly even have an impact for the group.

 

Bioware is so intent on keeping all classes the exact same that they don't get it. LOWERING THE STUN TO 10m ON A MELE CLASS IS NOT EQUAL TO A 10m STUN ON A RANGED CLASS. Giving a 4m root to a ranged class is asinine. If you want to give us a root.. give us a 20-30 m root. Hell, tie it to the interrupt (that I never wanted) so that it interrupts them in place for 2 seconds. Oh, wait... that would make the weakest class in the game OP, right???

 

Some people get it and you are clearly one of them. These changes really hurt my Merc and my feelings toward the game to be honest. A big old slap in the face for anyone that enjoyed playing a Merc.

[Jenzali]

Everyone in this thread seems to have magically forgotten that using Rocket Punch, an instant ability, triggers the global cooldown. You can't cast anything else anyways for 1.5 seconds, so why are you still standing there? Why were you even standing still in the first place if you are using one or more instant abilities? Every good PvP player knows that an instant ability is a very good opportunity to reposition yourself.

 

Now it roots my attackers exactly where I dont want them to be...on top of me.

 

You're not rooting them "on top of you". You're rooting them in place. You have 1.5 seconds to strafe away, no matter how much alacrity you have because alacrity doesn't affect the GCD. And if you've ever played a JK or SW, you know that the "deadzone" for most specs is between 4 and 10 meters - too far for most melee abilities and too close to use a leap or throw, so this is a good time to reposition yourself in the deadzone to buy you a few more seconds of survival.

 

Furthermore, the root will last 4 seconds unless broken by damage. So if your target is not being damaged by other players, you can strafe away (DO NOT BACKPEDAL), begin a cast time ability. Only when the ability hits your target will the root be broken. So in effect you can root your target 3 to 4 seconds out of every 9 seconds which is not too shabby a kiting tool in addition to your Jet Boost and Electro Dart. Mercs now have the root with the lowest cooldown in the game.

 

I'm not saying I agree with the change, or that DPS Mercs are fine. I'm just saying that people should become familiar with kiting mechanics because it's a skill that will help you for any ranged class in any MMO. If you are backpedaling or not re-positioning yourself after an instant cast ability, you have much bigger problems than what class you are playing.

 

In my opinion, it's actually a buff in nearly every situation except Huttball. I'll miss punching people into fires and off ledges, but it's another tool to stay alive in other warzones without filling the opponent's resolve bar and turning him into an unstoppable wrecking ball. And even in Huttball, a potentially 4-second root would be useful for the fire traps since it will work even on opponents with full resolve.

Edited September 28, 2012 by Jenzali

[Wraiven]

Everyone in this thread seems to have magically forgotten that using Rocket Punch, an instant ability, triggers the global cooldown. You can't cast anything else anyways for 1.5 seconds, so why are you still standing there? Why were you even standing still in the first place if you are using one or more instant abilities? Every good PvP player knows that an instant ability is a very good opportunity to reposition yourself.

 

 

 

You're not rooting them "on top of you". You're rooting them in place. You have 1.5 seconds to strafe away, no matter how much alacrity you have because alacrity doesn't affect the GCD. And if you've ever played a JK or SW, you know that the "deadzone" for most specs is between 4 and 10 meters - too far for most melee abilities and too close to use a leap or throw, so this is a good time to reposition yourself in the deadzone to buy you a few more seconds of survival.

 

Furthermore, the root will last 4 seconds unless broken by damage. So if your target is not being damaged by other players, you can strafe away (DO NOT BACKPEDAL), begin a cast time ability. Only when the ability hits your target will the root be broken. So in effect you can root your target 3 to 4 seconds out of every 9 seconds which is not too shabby a kiting tool in addition to your Jet Boost and Electro Dart. Mercs now have the root with the lowest cooldown in the game.

 

I'm not saying I agree with the change, or that DPS Mercs are fine. I'm just saying that people should become familiar with kiting mechanics because it's a skill that will help you for any ranged class in any MMO. If you are backpedaling or not re-positioning yourself after an instant cast ability, you have much bigger problems than what class you are playing.

 

In my opinion, it's actually a buff in nearly every situation except Huttball. I'll miss punching people into fires and off ledges, but it's another tool to stay alive in other warzones without filling the opponent's resolve bar and turning him into an unstoppable wrecking ball. And even in Huttball, a potentially 4-second root would be useful for the fire traps since it will work even on opponents with full resolve.

 

You must be some kind of God's gift to PvP then. What server are you on? I want to see just how well you do with an Arsenal Merc. I have a level 50 of almost every class. I promise you that if we duel, (I'll even let you pick which class) you will lose, no matter what class I use. Mercs tend to shine on really good teams...otherwise they are horrible.

 

Care to take me up on my challenge?

 

Also, that knock back only had one issue that needed to change...they needed to lower the amount of Resolve it created. It would have (Although I would have preferred a two second root after the knock back affect wears off) been perfect.

Edited September 29, 2012 by Wraiven

[Jenzali]

You must be some kind of God's gift to PvP then. What server are you on? I want to see just how well you do with an Arsenal Merc. I have a level 50 of almost every class. I promise you that if we duel, (I'll even let you pick which class) you will lose, no matter what class I use. Mercs tend to shine on really good teams...otherwise they are horrible.

 

Care to take me up on my challenge?

 

Also, that knock back only had one issue that needed to change...they needed to lower the amount of Resolve it created. It would have (Although I would have preferred a two second root after the knock back affect wears off) been perfect.

 

Where did that come from? I never claimed to be god's gift to PvP. Not only are you using an ad hominem attack out of the blue but you seem to have entirely missed the part where I said:

 

I'm not saying I agree with the change, or that DPS Mercs are fine.

 

I'm simply saying that standing still while using an instant attack is not a good idea and that learning kiting tactics is beneficial regardless of your class. What logically follows from that, is that if one hasn't learned basic kiting tactics, one should learn those before complaining that your class is not good enough, since they're not even playing it to its full ability.

[Slicktime]

the kb changed to a root was 100% a nerf. when someone says just strafe away while they are rooted.... lets see here.... they are rooted so they can slow you or root you or stun you. so basically a 2 sec. root does absolutely nothing. i guarantee the real reason they took the kb away was because it interrupted ravage/master strike. once again more power to melee classes and less for my commando and your mercs. gj bw keep driving the game into the ground.

[Vikoon]

Everyone in this thread seems to have magically forgotten that using Rocket Punch, an instant ability, triggers the global cooldown. You can't cast anything else anyways for 1.5 seconds, so why are you still standing there? Why were you even standing still in the first place if you are using one or more instant abilities? Every good PvP player knows that an instant ability is a very good opportunity to reposition yourself.

 

 

 

You're not rooting them "on top of you". You're rooting them in place. You have 1.5 seconds to strafe away, no matter how much alacrity you have because alacrity doesn't affect the GCD. And if you've ever played a JK or SW, you know that the "deadzone" for most specs is between 4 and 10 meters - too far for most melee abilities and too close to use a leap or throw, so this is a good time to reposition yourself in the deadzone to buy you a few more seconds of survival.

 

Furthermore, the root will last 4 seconds unless broken by damage. So if your target is not being damaged by other players, you can strafe away (DO NOT BACKPEDAL), begin a cast time ability. Only when the ability hits your target will the root be broken. So in effect you can root your target 3 to 4 seconds out of every 9 seconds which is not too shabby a kiting tool in addition to your Jet Boost and Electro Dart. Mercs now have the root with the lowest cooldown in the game.

 

I'm not saying I agree with the change, or that DPS Mercs are fine. I'm just saying that people should become familiar with kiting mechanics because it's a skill that will help you for any ranged class in any MMO. If you are backpedaling or not re-positioning yourself after an instant cast ability, you have much bigger problems than what class you are playing.

 

In my opinion, it's actually a buff in nearly every situation except Huttball. I'll miss punching people into fires and off ledges, but it's another tool to stay alive in other warzones without filling the opponent's resolve bar and turning him into an unstoppable wrecking ball. And even in Huttball, a potentially 4-second root would be useful for the fire traps since it will work even on opponents with full resolve.

 

I mean lets just face it here. A root every 9 seconds that breaks on damage in 2 is no good for the weakest RANGED class in the game. Are you saying that it might be good in a 1 on 1 scenario? Cause even then I think that it is a terrible use of a button to push. I play in warzones where if I am playing right then a 1 on 1 battle shouldn't be happening for long. They are team games not 1 v 1. There is always splash damage around so the fact that it breaks on damage is such bull. It is a great ability for PT but not for Mercs. I know alot about kiting and let me tell you that an Arsenal Merc is not a kiting class, straight up. Almost every thing we do is a 3 sec channel. All I can do lately is use my bubble and hope I out damage someone before they get on top of me a tear me a new one. Jet boost also deals damage so I can't even Rocket Punch Immobilize and Jet Boost them back to buy a few seconds.

 

My opinion remains the same and there is no reason that we shouldn't get the real rocket punch back for Arsenal Mercs.

[Wraiven]

Where did that come from? I never claimed to be god's gift to PvP. Not only are you using an ad hominem attack out of the blue but you seem to have entirely missed the part where I said:

 

 

 

I'm simply saying that standing still while using an instant attack is not a good idea and that learning kiting tactics is beneficial regardless of your class. What logically follows from that, is that if one hasn't learned basic kiting tactics, one should learn those before complaining that your class is not good enough, since they're not even playing it to its full ability.

 

My apologies, man. I should have never ripped in to you like that. Have to forgive me though, I have been dealing with some real mind boggling responses to threads like this one since patch release.

 

You're right, man...I totally missed your point and only read what I was expecting to see instead of reading what you actually typed. Take care, man.

[Briggs_Knightly]

I'm simply saying that standing still while using an instant attack is not a good idea and that learning kiting tactics is beneficial regardless of your class. What logically follows from that, is that if one hasn't learned basic kiting tactics, one should learn those before complaining that your class is not good enough, since they're not even playing it to its full ability.

 

This may sound OK but take it from someone who has play-tested it...

 

I RP him, He can not move, I try to run away, He insta stun/roots me and ripps my face off.

or

I RP him, He can not move, I can run away but he is still attacking me??? Yah it says 4 m but with lag and the game mechanics in play he still gets his attack on me while I've stopped attacking him because I don't want to break the root.

or

Someone in my party breaks the root and I just wasted 1 attack that could have mattered on the now pretty worthless RP.

or

I can actually run into the chaos of my group (if anyone is around) and he gets distracted into attacking someone else.

 

Mostly it just sux now and I have already respecced out of it anyway.

[Tucari]

This patch blows....I agree with the majority. Honestly, rooting someone next to you as you are trying to get away...really? Have the devs tried to fight melee with a bh without a 30m Electro Dart or a Rocket Punch (knockback). 10m for an electro dart is stupid. A lot of this game crap is stupid. I'm glad I've cancel my subscription. After SWG getting nerfed and changed to hell, I thought this game would be the next greatest thing. So instead of nerfing melee and scoundrel properly, they nerf the 2 things that help bh stay alive in pvp. I've been kicked by a scoundrel which lowers my health to half sometimes...totally insane.

 

These damn stealth classes are like the damn rogues on WoW!!! They need to be nerfed!!!

[deucexmachina]

I initially only mentioned PvP because Rocket Punch was, and still is, useless in PvE, especially for Arsenal Mercenaries.

 

The root can be broken after two seconds. That still translates to about 9 meters and is a net gain over knockback rocket punches in terms of distance gaps.

 

Afterburners, the skill governing the Rocket Punch perk, is nowhere near as useful for PvE, even before 1.4. Most endgame content are immune to movement impairments anyway. In terms of solo content, it has roughly the same about of viability for the reasons I explained earlier.

 

All 30-meter instant stuns have been reduced to 10 meters so it's not just Mercenaries. Don't feel singled out. This will change gameplay somewhat, but it's more for PvP and not so much for PvE. If you're going to CC them, you'll find a way. You still have a 30m in-combat long-term CC that can be used every 45s/1min.

 

And my "EPIC" feeling in the game becomes a run-a-way, run-a-way, run-a-way hide weak class oh what happened to being that "Champion".

 

And then when I actually turn around and start to launch an attack after my flight away form said mob I find that I am already set upon again.

 

All 30 meter stuns dropped to 10 meters. My healing sorcerer has saved groups in PvEEEEEE from wipes due to CC breaking or adds, at 30 Meters, Sorcerer is Not Melee.

 

Useless.

Edited October 3, 2012 by deucexmachina

[deucexmachina]

Why hunters had meele root in wow? Try to kite.

 

It was impossible before 1.4. Not saying that now it is possible, but you just gained a 4 sec root on a 9 sec cooldown, try it, you may discover that this class has gained in mobility, which is exactly what it needed.

 

Go back to playing wow, this is SWTOR.

 

The hunter in wow could actually fire while running, how soon people forget the little things.

 

A BH is more akin to being a turret, immobile launcher.

[Voranis]

I've tried.

I really have.

 

I tried it in huttball.

I tried it in civil war.

I tried it in voidstar.

I tried it on the coast.

I tried it in Kaon.

I tried it in false emperor.

I tried it in black hole.

I tried it in 1v1 away from the action.

I tried it in the middle of a furball.

I tried it in front of the objective.

I tried it on every class in the game.

I tried it to slow people down.

I tried it when I got jumped.

I tried it when I got the jump on someone.

I tried it to kite.

I tried it to stop ballcarriers.

I tried it to save myself.

I tried it to annoy people.

I tried it to prevent LoS'ing.

I tried it on mobs.

I tried it on weak/standard/strong/elite/champion/boss.

 

I tried.

I cannot find any use for this ability that is beneficial to me in any way.

Most of the time it either has no impact on the situation, or it only means I die faster.

The old RP had limited uses, but it still had it's moments.

Now?

Well at least it still does some damage, that's all it is good for anymore.

[Wraiven]

What is killing me, is that even with all the posts on this subject that are completely negative to the new Rocket Punch, no Dev has come to the attention of this issue. It would be great if we got an update on this. This change feels like it was bullied on to us. A class that was already suffering got a nerf. Why nerf a class that was already in the pits? I don't comprehend this move by Bioware.

[Krozis]

Well I will chime in on this because I have a bit of a different take.

 

When the notes were released before hand I did a bunch of testing especially with duels on the 'old' Rocket Punch.

 

While I wholeheartedly agree OLD rocket punch needed a tweak, it did not puch back far enough to be of significant use (except on an edge in huttball), but more specifically as a Dev pointed out, it still ramped up the Resolve bar too much.

 

So I tested that, and sure enough, for a cruddy knockback, it does fill resolve too much.

 

Unfortunately the solution, a melee style root which will get you ravaged about 90% of the time (interrupt non-withstanding) is NOT a fix.

 

And the heal is just a bad design element period. They couldn't give us a tiny sorc heal buff? No, instead tie it to Tracer, and make us 'bank' it so the Tracer Locks don't end up getting used on... Rail Shot. Ugh. Just poor design at work there.