No more knock back for Rocket Punch?

[Wraiven]

Why was the knock back removed from Afterburners: Rocket Punch? As an Arsenal Merc player, this makes no sense to me, we are considered "lol" in PvP already...so why the change?

 

I know they turned it in to a root instead, but that totally defeats the purpose of the animation IMO. Anyway, not sure why this was done, from any point of view, be it PvP or PvE or even an RP point of view, that I can see.

 

Anyone care to enlighten me as to why this change was needed? I don't recall any Dev post or Podcast about this, so this one kinda snuck in on me.

Edited September 26, 2012 by Wraiven

[Vikoon]

I hear ya brother. Makes no sense at all. I must have been making my gripe at the same time as you cause I started a thread about how I think we got hosed on this deal. That and Electro Dart only being 10m now is a joke.

[Agurk]

Yes it stops them moving for 4 seconds why on earth as a ranged fighting toon would you want to keep your apponant stuck next to you especialy if they can still attack. the goal of a ranged toon is keep them away from you so you can attack when they cant. If it was still a knock back with a 4 second imobalization then it would be suited to a ranged fighting class but as it is they have made it an attack ability only no real use otherwise.

[Wraiven]

Yes it stops them moving for 4 seconds why on earth as a ranged fighting toon would you want to keep your apponant stuck next to you especialy if they can still attack. the goal of a ranged toon is keep them away from you so you can attack when they cant. If it was still a knock back with a 4 second imobalization then it would be suited to a ranged fighting class but as it is they have made it an attack ability only no real use otherwise.

 

PvP: DPS Merc is considered to be the worst class in game. So we have the worst class in game and worst spec in game...so they nerf it. Talk about kicking us when we're down...

[vojinsa]

Why was the knock back removed from Afterburners: Rocket Punch? .

 

 

As an Arsenal Merc player we are considered "lol" in PvP already.

 

answered your own question.

[RazielHex]

PvP: DPS Merc is considered to be the worst class in game. So we have the worst class in game and worst spec in game...so they nerf it. Talk about kicking us when we're down...

 

Funny how I still outdo a lot of players in battlemaster with it.

 

Sounds like PEBKAC.

[Wraiven]

Funny how I still outdo a lot of players in battlemaster with it.

 

Sounds like PEBKAC.

 

This isn't about me, or you...or how well you or I play them. Let's not turn this into that. This is about a skill that did not need a nerf, yet it got one anyway. I don't understand the logic behind that. I really am curious if we have one of NCSoft's PvP Employees on this project.

[Spoletta]

This is intended as a buff, not a nerf. Roots don't build up resolve.

 

Play with it, try to find a way to exploit the new form of this skill. Don't just say " I can no longer do what i did with the knockback so it sucks", find new uses for it. I know it's a terrible world, but sometimes you have to change and adapt.

[Wraiven]

This is intended as a buff, not a nerf. Roots don't build up resolve.

 

Play with it, try to find a way to exploit the new form of this skill. Don't just say " I can no longer do what i did with the knockback so it sucks", find new uses for it. I know it's a terrible world, but sometimes you have to change and adapt.

 

It's a pure matter of play style...I have played with it and theory crafted numerous possibilities. The knock back was better. Much better for survival.

 

I have seen the arguments, but I do not share the same negative experiences from the old style like some of you do. I made it work for me rather well. This just goes to show that not everyone plays the same way. This root thing, is just silly.

 

You root them in place...right next to you. Not very helpful without having a way to break LOS with the player.

 

It keeps them from running away...so did Electro Dart.

 

You can root them, then hit Death from Above... Was able to do this very same thing with rocket punch, electro dart combo. Besides, only works long enough for one or two tics, then they are once again free to move.

 

The pros just don't out weigh the cons IMO.

[Esproc]

As stated, Why would you root an enemy you're fighting right beside you when you are a ranged fighter?

 

Makes no sense, must be EA.

[Spoletta]

Why hunters had meele root in wow? Try to kite.

 

It was impossible before 1.4. Not saying that now it is possible, but you just gained a 4 sec root on a 9 sec cooldown, try it, you may discover that this class has gained in mobility, which is exactly what it needed.

[Hatonastick]

No, no, no this is a good thing! Seriously! By gradually making a growing number of powers/skills in the game pointless it helps free up space in the action bars of my characters. Thanks once again Bioware -- keep up the good work!

 

PS If you could, please mess up some of my Jedi Guardians powers next as that's another one I'd like to reduce the number of skills I bother cluttering up my action bars with.

[ImperialSun]

Why was the knock back removed from Afterburners: Rocket Punch? As an Arsenal Merc player, this makes no sense to me, we are considered "lol" in PvP already...so why the change?

 

I know they turned it in to a root instead, but that totally defeats the purpose of the animation IMO. Anyway, not sure why this was done, from any point of view, be it PvP or PvE or even an RP point of view, that I can see.

 

Anyone care to enlighten me as to why this change was needed? I don't recall any Dev post or Podcast about this, so this one kinda snuck in on me.

 

I don;t get this either, as an Arsenal Merc my biggest problem is keeping distance between me and an attacker/s. I used the AOE knockback as a defensive measure to give me some breathing space to adjust and/or move. It was one of the only mobility escapes I had. Now it roots my attackers exactly where I dont want them to be...on top of me. Makes no sense at all IMO. Would love to understand the rationale behind it.

 

This and range reduction on stun dart have me baffled...I used stun dart to hamper someone closing me down and in order to assess and adjust or escape...now I can only use it when, again, they are right on top of me. I also feel stun darts utility has been nerfed due to the range reduction...

 

Dont get me wrong I am really glad to have an interupt but the changes to rocket punch and stun dart have me really puzzled at this point

 

I'm all for adapt your playstyle and all that but we were gimped before this and now I have to work even harder just to have any sort of survivability...

 

Driz

[RazielHex]

This isn't about me, or you...or how well you or I play them. Let's not turn this into that. This is about a skill that did not need a nerf, yet it got one anyway. I don't understand the logic behind that. I really am curious if we have one of NCSoft's PvP Employees on this project.

 

It'll give you a good, long root and doesn't add nearly as much resolve as it used to.

 

So adapt.

Edited September 27, 2012 by RazielHex

[xGBox]

I'm reading a lot of these posts and I'm not sure if a lot of you are understanding the uses of a root versus a knockback.

 

Knockback-based Rocket Punches were almost always used in an offensive manner. It was used to force one person into fire, the pits, acid, off a bridge, etc. It's a great tool, but it's obviously not a defensive ability. Punching someone back about 5 meters was not worth the amount of resolve being applied. In fact, it was basically more of a direct Jet Boost and therefore made the knockback-based Rocket Boost somewhat redundant.

 

Root-based Rocket Punches gives you 4 seconds to run away. Try punching a warzone dummy from 0 meters and start running. I manage to get about a distance gap of about 18 meters consistently (if not slowed or otherwise immobilized). That doesn't mean a root cannot be used offensively. Roots can force players to stay in bad stuff and delay enemies while your teammates capture nodes or plant bombs. In other words, a root is actually more useful as it can be used both offensively and defensively.

 

I do agree that a rocket punch should not root somebody. It doesn't even make sense. Do you punch them so hard that they forget how to walk? The ability should really be called something else.

Edited September 27, 2012 by xGBox

[deucexmachina]

I'm reading a lot of these posts and I'm not sure if a lot of you are understanding the uses of a root versus a knockback.

 

Knockback-based Rocket Punches were almost always used in an offensive manner. It was used to force one person into fire, the pits, acid, off a bridge, etc. It's a great tool, but it's obviously not a defensive ability. Punching someone back about 5 meters was not worth the amount of resolve being applied. In fact, it was basically more of a direct Jet Boost and therefore made the knockback-based Rocket Boost somewhat redundant.

 

Root-based Rocket Punches gives you 4 seconds to run away. Try punching a warzone dummy from 0 meters and start running. I manage to get about a distance gap of about 18 meters consistently (if not slowed or otherwise immobilized). That doesn't mean a root cannot be used offensively. Roots can force players to stand into fire and delay enemies while your teammates capture nodes or plant bombs. Therefore, this is a better upgrade overall.

 

I do agree that a rocket punch should not root somebody. It doesn't even make sense. Do you punch them so hard that they forget how to walk? The ability should really be called something else.

 

You are assuming PvP and not PvE which is part of this story based MMO.

 

Root next to the BH while a companion is active and also attacking makes this feature pure bunk as the stun is broken and the action pretty much wasted heat.

 

Add in the 20 Meter nerf to Electro Dart and you may just as well give us Lightsabers and closer moves like the other melee classes.

[Wraiven]

It'll give you a good, long root and doesn't add nearly as much resolve as it used to.

 

So adapt.

 

I am adapting...who ever said I was not adapting? That is just you trying to sound like you are a better player than I am...twice now. Trust me...you have no idea. So stop trying to be "big man on campus" here and acting like you are the only person who knows how to play.

 

I have adapted...if you were reading this thread at all, you would know that. Just because I have adapted does not mean that I should not vocalize my opinion to bring back out knock back. Bioware keeps making goofy changes like this...where they were not needed, because players could not "adapt" to the knock back function of Rocket Punch...I won't stick around to watch this game crumble over lost subs due to uncalled for nerfs like this.

 

Adapting has nothing to do with it, so stop acting like the big dog here...

[Nomaad]

No, no, no this is a good thing! Seriously! By gradually making a growing number of powers/skills in the game pointless it helps free up space in the action bars of my characters. Thanks once again Bioware -- keep up the good work!

 

PS If you could, please mess up some of my Jedi Guardians powers next as that's another one I'd like to reduce the number of skills I bother cluttering up my action bars with.

 

10/10 win!

[xGBox]

You are assuming PvP and not PvE which is part of this story based MMO.

 

Root next to the BH while a companion is active and also attacking makes this feature pure bunk as the stun is broken and the action pretty much wasted heat.

 

Add in the 20 Meter nerf to Electro Dart and you may just as well give us Lightsabers and closer moves like the other melee classes.

I initially only mentioned PvP because Rocket Punch was, and still is, useless in PvE, especially for Arsenal Mercenaries.

 

The root can be broken after two seconds. That still translates to about 9 meters and is a net gain over knockback rocket punches in terms of distance gaps.

 

Afterburners, the skill governing the Rocket Punch perk, is nowhere near as useful for PvE, even before 1.4. Most endgame content are immune to movement impairments anyway. In terms of solo content, it has roughly the same about of viability for the reasons I explained earlier.

 

All 30-meter instant stuns have been reduced to 10 meters so it's not just Mercenaries. Don't feel singled out. This will change gameplay somewhat, but it's more for PvP and not so much for PvE. If you're going to CC them, you'll find a way. You still have a 30m in-combat long-term CC that can be used every 45s/1min.

Edited September 27, 2012 by xGBox

[Millem]

Why the BW guys hate the Mercenaries so much at the point of leaving the weakiest AC spec even weakier?

Their hole idea of "buff" consists in get the honor of being sliced by a Ravage move at the price of not being able to to throw a melee from a catwalk anymore?

Seriously... did Boba Fett gave them some nightmares when they were kids?

One good idea: If you wanna get rid of all DPS Mercs in the game once for all (but whitout losing paying subs), open to them an exceptional scape route of changing AC into Powertechs.

[Tim-ONeil]

I think that part of it was that it provided a relatively low cost interrupt that they wanted to remove as well. The class initially wasn't designed to have one as it's limitation. They added an interrupt and probably thought that having 3 essentially isn't balanced. (Stockstrike, Concussion Charge, Interrupt (can't remember the name)).

[Tim-ONeil]

Thinking on this more, stockstrike/rocket punch was NEVER a defensive ability (I'd know I am an in your face Guardian DPS) knocking me back 4m meant you were still in range of ALL my abilities. The root is going to be more problematic for me since my stun/movement breakers have a huge cooldown. Concussion charge with it's knockback and root was the defensive one. And while that's now a cone, it's still perfect for what it's intended.

[Wraiven]

Thinking on this more, stockstrike/rocket punch was NEVER a defensive ability (I'd know I am an in your face Guardian DPS) knocking me back 4m meant you were still in range of ALL my abilities. The root is going to be more problematic for me since my stun/movement breakers have a huge cooldown. Concussion charge with it's knockback and root was the defensive one. And while that's now a cone, it's still perfect for what it's intended.

 

You are thinking of it from a melee stand point of view. Let me give you my view from a ranged point of view, then let's see if you still feel the same way...

 

I knock you back with Rocket Punch to set you up for a new ranged attack, one that you honestly do not want to be caught in. Death From Above. Death from above is not a melee ability like our other AoE. This knock back from Rocket Punch puts you right at the correct distance to set you up for Death From Above. So here was the progression...

 

Afterburner: Rocket Punch.

 

Electro Dart (Stun)

 

Death from Above.

 

Electro Dart holds you there and forces you to endure Death from Above.

 

The knock back from Rocket Punch was way more affective than a two second root. I say two second root because damage breaks this root. Not good for a ranged class...at all.

[Tim-ONeil]

Well since I'm the end receiver of your rocket punch I'm telling you how to improve.

 

Previously you had to use 2 abilities to achieve what you wanted to do. Now you will need to only 1 (possibly 2 until you master it). If you time it right you root me, move about 7M away and DFA. The end result is about the same and you didn't have to fill my resolve bar to accomplish me taking a few ticks of Death from Above... and you still have your stun dart for later. This the key point. You will still be able to do nearly everything you could before and have after resolve/stun to use. If you are a good player you'll find a way to make that work to your advantage.

 

But change is always hard until the optimal new strategy is learned.

Edited September 27, 2012 by Tim-ONeil

[Wraiven]

Well since I'm the end receiver of your rocket punch I'm telling you how to improve.

 

Previously you had to use 2 abilities to achieve what you wanted to do. Now you will need to only 1 (possibly 2 until you master it). If you time it right you root me, move about 7M away and DFA. The end result is about the same and you didn't have to fill my resolve bar to accomplish me taking a few ticks of Death from Above... and you still have your stun dart for later. This the key point. You will still be able to do nearly everything you could before and have after resolve/stun to use. If you are a good player you'll find a way to make that work to your advantage.

 

But change is always hard until the optimal new strategy is learned.

 

Pretty sure the root is broken when you take damage. Which means this is wrong.