Did I hear this right?

[dpwms]

I am pretty sure it was stated at some point that, if SGRs are coming, it will only be with new companions, not with existing ones.

 

Curses, foiled again!

[Nozybidaj]

For those unaware supporters of SGRA's have undertaken a writing campaign to GLAAD and other GLBT organizations and various gaming and news outlets to try and garner outside interest in the addition of this content to SW:TOR and some, any, word on the issue. It took about GLAAD about 24 hours to respond with a quick "Thanks for the letter, we're contacting BW/EA for a response" which is much faster than we are used after 9 months of silence from BW.

 

Will it get anymore out of EA/BW than a quick canned "blah blah blah we truly care about the GLBT community and have a long history of inclusion in our games. More info when available blah blah blah"? Probably not, but its worth the effort if for no other reason than to throw a little egg on their face.

[Nozybidaj]

Curses, foiled again!

 

That's not actually true, they've never said anything about whether the content would be with existing or brand new companions.

 

By that logic, I could claim that all PvP improvements are a waste of time.

 

Except that is actually true. PvP in MMO's is always horrible and is universally the least skill dependent venue for Player versus Player type action in any video game genre I've ever played. It always come down to who has the bigger lightsaber so to speak. For good PvP a game needs to be designed around it to ensure a level playing field for all competitors. I enjoy a lot of different kinds of "PvP" but MMO's are about the last place it makes sense.

 

That said, I don't go around all the PvP threads telling folks their concerns are unimportant. That would just be an incredibly rude and selfish thing to do.

Edited December 5, 2012 by Nozybidaj

[SOULCASTER]

I can't believe of all the problems with this game, people are pushing for dev time to make SGR (same gender romance, for those of you like me who had no idea w t f people were talking about for a while). I am floored by this. SO MANY THINGS need fixing in this game, this should be a bottom priority. This is not a sandbox game, the story of your character is laid out by what they write. I'm sorry but dev time shouldn't be spent doing SGR's, just so you can continue your little SGR story with a companion. Chances are, you wont like the stories they write for you anyway!

 

And I dont mean to sound cold hearted. I just dont understand how this is a reoccurring "priority" for some people.

 

Most of us are trying to pretend this is a good game. Why can't you all just pretend your companion loves you?

[Palar]

I was under the impression that the exact opposite was stated way back by Daniel Erickson. He said that they always knew which companions were going to have SGRA, which implies that the ones we have in game now.

 

He hinted at it... they couldn't even say whether we'd have to abandon characters until it comes in, if we want to see it.

 

Nothing but "Thanks for waiting, have some more silence."

[fabiyun]

Wow. There are so many rude, obnoxious or arrogant posts in this thread that it makes my head spin.

 

Let me be clear about something here:

 

Just because YOU are not interested in same-gender relationships DOES NOT MEAN that this isn't important to a lot of other players who wanted this in at launch.

 

Such options were there at launch for other games from Bioware (notably Mass Effect 3 and Dragon Age), so were sorely lacking here.

 

If you're not interested in it, that DOES NOT make it a waste of time. By that logic, I could claim that all PvP improvements are a waste of time. I could also claim that many of the flashpoint improvements are a waste of time. Do I claim this? NO. Why? Because I realise that other gamers have different priorities to myself.

 

Please have a bit of empathy for this and realise that a heck of a lot of players find this an important part of character design and story. Furthermore, please refrain from making snap value judgements about those for whom this is important, lest you be judged as such yourselves in a similar nasty manner.

 

Kind thoughts

llesna

 

Thanks! I couldn't agree more. Having been here since before launch and expecting this feature like so many others. We talked about it forever in our little thread. It's really time for some more info.

[natashina]

Okay, I think I'm just awake enough to do this.

 

Say that a new Battlefield game was coming out that was not able to offer multiplayer at launch, but it was going to be available as a free DLC later.

 

Then, for better part of a year, they don't talk about it and dodge any/all questions about it.

 

Then all the employees that talked about this content are gone and the players are still left without a word.

 

Then a thread is started, understandably looking for an answer.

 

You are told over and over again that only a small percentage of the playerbase wants multiplayer, and the game has more important things/DLC to work on.

 

I'm betting the percentage of players in this example isn't as small as others might think.

 

Wouldn't you(general term,) want to find out the answer after nine months? Even if it was no/delayed/scrapped/has an ETA? At least something.

 

As a customer, I feel deceived by EA/BW. That's why I'm taking the route I have.

 

Please, join us in writing to GLAAD. GLAAD has already started to investigate this matter. If anyone wants, I can copy the FB messages I've gotten from them. If anyone wants their contact info, let me know via PM.

 

Let's try to get some answers!

 

I am prepared for it to possibly be a "No," so long as they publicly come and tell us such.

 

Publicly is the key word here.

 

They haven't said a word on a public scale since March. Nine months is a very long time in the world of MMOs. The LGBTQ posters don't necessarily want this right now, they just want an official word from BW/EA.

 

We are players too and I for one would like to see the Win-32 memory leak crashes get fixed first. I'm all about bug fixes before new content, no matter what it is.

 

I don't think an official and public word is too much to ask.

Edited December 6, 2012 by natashina

[Deewe]

Wow. There are so many rude, obnoxious or arrogant posts in this thread that it makes my head spin.

 

Let me be clear about something here:

 

Just because YOU are not interested in same-gender relationships DOES NOT MEAN that this isn't important to a lot of other players who wanted this in at launch.

 

Such options were there at launch for other games from Bioware (notably Mass Effect 3 and Dragon Age), so were sorely lacking here.

 

If you're not interested in it, that DOES NOT make it a waste of time. By that logic, I could claim that all PvP improvements are a waste of time. I could also claim that many of the flashpoint improvements are a waste of time. Do I claim this? NO. Why? Because I realise that other gamers have different priorities to myself.

 

Please have a bit of empathy for this and realise that a heck of a lot of players find this an important part of character design and story. Furthermore, please refrain from making snap value judgements about those for whom this is important, lest you be judged as such yourselves in a similar nasty manner.

 

Kind thoughts

llesna

A fair view.

 

Now let's not forget developing these is a tremendous effort:

 

At this point, regarding, Matthew Bromberg (aka big boss) and Jeff Hickman (Boss #2) , said V.O. wasn't the main focus of the game as too costly and takes too much time to develop. Now put their shoes on and with a limited budget think about the below choice:

 

Have the writers develop new class story lines

 

or

 

Have the writer revisit every single character and companions interaction/lines

Adjust the existing dialog

Create new dialog options for SGRs

 

Then:

Record said voices

Add them in game

 

 

In a case you are providing new content to, players that are going to re-roll new characters only and please only a proportion of the player base.

 

In the other one, you are adding content for every character, even the caped ones. You are providing content for both the players that like the SGRs and those that don't.

 

While you can threaten to /ragequit, it's obvious only a minority would really leave for the lack of SGRs content.

Also it's clear more content would both bring more players back in and/or have other keep subscribed longer.

 

Sorry but from a producer point of view you're not the winner here...

Whatever voicy you are

 

 

However, what they can do is: for the new V.O. content only add SGRs options.

Edited December 6, 2012 by Deewe

[NatashaTerenzio]

A fair view.

 

Now let's not forget developing these is a tremendous effort:

 

At this point, regarding, Matthew Bromberg (aka big boss) and Jeff Hickman (Boss #2) , said V.O. wasn't the main focus of the game as too costly and takes too much time to develop. Now put their shoes on and with a limited budget think about the below choice:

 

Have the writers develop new class story lines

 

or

 

Have the writer revisit every single character and companions interaction/lines

Adjust the existing dialog

Create new dialog options for SGRs

 

Then:

Record said voices

Add them in game

 

 

In a case you are providing new content to, players that are going to re-roll new characters only and please only a proportion of the player base.

 

In the other one, you are adding content for every character, even the caped ones. You are providing content for both the players that like the SGRs and those that don't.

 

While you can threaten to /ragequit, it's obvious only a minority would really leave for the lack of SGRs content.

Also it clear more content would both bring more players back in and/or have other keep subscribed longer.

 

Sorry but from a producer point of view you're not the winner here...

Whatever voicy you are

 

However, what they can do is: for the new V.O. content only add SGRs options.

 

While this is a fair point to make entirely from a production point of view, it really misses the point of the whole SGR argument.

 

If you're not going to do it - say so. If you are going to do it - when? It's that simple.

 

For Bioware who has in many of its games (DoA, Mass Effect, etc) offered SGR content, and for them to claim they are so friendly to the LGBT Community and then not to do it in SW is mind boggling and utterly rude. But setting that aside completely the biggest issue (from what I've read) that the LGBT community has at this point is the silence on the matter. Sweeping it under the rug is just not the way to go about this and while they may be a small part of the gaming population I would not doubt their willingness to get very loud on some very public platforms and they have every right too. Which could be very bad for Bioware, considering how they as a company like to be viewed by the LGBT Community.

 

Provide an update, no matter what it is, but don't ignore it. Again, it's that simple.

[natashina]

While this is a fair point to make entirely from a production point of view, it really misses the point of the whole SGR argument.

 

If you're not going to do it - say so. If you are going to do it - when? It's that simple.

 

For Bioware who has in many of its games (DoA, Mass Effect, etc) offered SGR content, and for them to claim they are so friendly to the LGBT Community and then not to do it in SW is mind boggling and utterly rude. But setting that aside completely the biggest issue (from what I've read) that the LGBT community has at this point is the silence on the matter. Sweeping it under the rug is just not the way to go about this and while they may be a small part of the gaming population I would not doubt their willingness to get very loud on some very public platforms and they have every right too. Which could be very bad for Bioware, considering how they as a company like to be viewed by the LGBT Community.

 

Provide an update, no matter what it is, but don't ignore it. Again, it's that simple.

 

Couldn't have said it better myself. GLAAD seemed to respond to my Facebook message the quickest, so I'd suggest everyone that wants to write in for this matter start there. I would, however, recommend sending them an email as well.

[Nozybidaj]

Justifying why we want content? Really? How do they justify PvP content then? In a (healthy) MMO PvP is always among the least used content in the game. PvP servers are always ghost towns battlegrounds and arenas are never used by a vast majority of the playerbase. How do they justify end game content? Only a tiny fraction of players ever even step inside an end game instance more or less fully explore it.

 

Everyone sees content while leveling. In SW:TOR this means the class and planet stories. Adding new content for the class and planet stories is by far the best investment BW can make if we are talking about what portions of the playerbase are going to use it.

 

If you chop up any particular issue you can always demean it as a "minority concern" and is a particularly overused attack by privileged groups to assert their own self assumed importance and made up 'right' to hold their privileged status. In the end though the best word for it is simply selfishness. /shrug

 

The only real reason why BW should do it is because its just the right thing to do (and rightfully should have been done day 1 of launch). Whether they are going to do that or not? Well that's why we are here, to find out.

 

All that said:

My guess is, the Devs much rather string you along and get your $15 a month, while you hope for an answer, then give you the answer you don't want, and have you quit the game. They are keeping you on hold for a reason.

 

I actually think that statement has a lot of merit, sadly.

Edited December 6, 2012 by Nozybidaj

[Ellianshia]

(Post snipped)

I actually think that statement has a lot of merit, sadly.

 

Well said. I'll definitely agree to some if not all points you made. Of course, if the devs really ARE stringing us along, you can imagine the amount of bad publicity they'll get in the process. The LGBT community isn't small, so stringing such a large group along in such a way can only lead to one thing... any future games they make being boycotted by said community. Do you think that is such a smart move? At this point, all we're wanting for is an answer. Is it still coming?

 

We don't know how they'll deal with adding SGRs if they still are. Do we need to level our characters up and get them to 50 to be able to take advantage of this content? Will we need to start over with numerous characters to be able to do such? I got Kira on my JK and I stopped playing her. Same with several other characters that I have... I reached a companion that I'd love to romance and am unable to at present and I stopped playing them in hopes that I will see this content added soon.

 

At this point, I don't have a character I can play. If I get a no... I'd likely still finish the characters I started to see the rest of their story. Would I continue to play after that? I haven't decided yet. I was never really too big on raids/operations/whatever-you-want-to-call-them and I never cared much for PvP. Beyond that, I don't see what else TOR can offer me. I could never get into RP in a visual media and most MMOs seem to have this very short limitations in regards to the amount of text one can post in a single go, so it makes it rather annoying for me to try and RP too.

 

Still, if I had access to SGRs, I could try extra characters as well to experience other companions' romance... not to mention trying to see how things work out as the other alignment. Fact is, I will cancel my subscription at some point in the near future. Will it happen due to the deafening silence regarding this issue or due to the fact that I've experienced all I could from TOR? I'm waiting for some information on that.

[Nozybidaj]

I got Kira on my JK and I stopped playing her. Same with several other characters that I have... I reached a companion that I'd love to romance and am unable to at present and I stopped playing them in hopes that I will see this content added soon.

 

I was in much the same position when I left the game 9 months ago with my JK and a few others sitting in cantinas waiting. Now I come back 9 months later and.... still waiting. I knew SGRA's weren't in that wasn't a surprise but I was surprised to find the game relatively unchanged since I left. The legacy has a handful of silly things to use at best but overall I didn't see anything there I would actually spend credits on more or less cartel coins. The UI Customization is nice but they can't have spent 9 months developing that?

 

Aside from that relatively little changed for any of my characters (talent points got refunded was the most exciting thing I saw). Of course that might be partly because of previously mentioned case of being stuck sitting in a cantina for 9 months. But there you have it.

[fabiyun]

I was in much the same position when I left the game 9 months ago with my JK and a few others sitting in cantinas waiting. Now I come back 9 months later and.... still waiting. I knew SGRA's weren't in that wasn't a surprise but I was surprised to find the game relatively unchanged since I left. The legacy has a handful of silly things to use at best but overall I didn't see anything there I would actually spend credits on more or less cartel coins. The UI Customization is nice but they can't have spent 9 months developing that?

 

Aside from that relatively little changed for any of my characters (talent points got refunded was the most exciting thing I saw). Of course that might be partly because of previously mentioned case of being stuck sitting in a cantina for 9 months. But there you have it.

 

Being stuck in the cantina would be pretty much it. They've added warzones, operations, hard modes, nightmare modes, gear colour matching, gamorrean axes, amongst others. Level 50 stuff mostly, and some cosmetics. I'm not a raider, or pvper, I don't much understand the fun of these things. But that's what's mostly been happening. In the works are more warzones, more hard modes, more nightmare modes, more operations. There's lots of want for chat bubbles (I've personally only ever seen them in the Sims Online, I'm not sure what they're good for), more gear, more end game (what does that even mean?), more cosmetics, hood toggles, and so. It's brought me to a further lack of understanding what exactly an MMORPG is? What does RPG mean, and what does MMO mean? If I'm to go by the forums it means the Sims Online with lots of dungeons and who's the best lists.

 

I love being sour at 3AM.

[Ellianshia]

Being stuck in the cantina would be pretty much it. They've added warzones, operations, hard modes, nightmare modes, gear colour matching, gamorrean axes, amongst others. Level 50 stuff mostly, and some cosmetics. I'm not a raider, or pvper, I don't much understand the fun of these things. But that's what's mostly been happening. In the works are more warzones, more hard modes, more nightmare modes, more operations. There's lots of want for chat bubbles (I've personally only ever seen them in the Sims Online, I'm not sure what they're good for), more gear, more end game (what does that even mean?), more cosmetics, hood toggles, and so. It's brought me to a further lack of understanding what exactly an MMORPG is? What does RPG mean, and what does MMO mean? If I'm to go by the forums it means the Sims Online with lots of dungeons and who's the best lists.

 

I love being sour at 3AM.

 

Sadly, it sounds about right. I love how they claim that it's an RPG, how there are RP servers (Or well, one nowadays) and how you run into names like "Darthyoda" on said RP servers that are lvl 50s and have likely been reported several times for failing to follow the naming conventions of RP realms, yet still exist. All in all, the RPG part of MMORGPs is non-existent. RP is not just the ability to gain experience, learn skills and equip different gear. Need to have tools and the capability to actually role-play... which with a 4-line chat buffer is completely useless. I need to use 4 chat buffers to pull off a decent emote... let alone if I get in a creative mood and start writing paragraphs. When I get in the mood, even the Second Life chat buffer (Which is pretty damn huge) is not enough for me, let alone the pitiance TOR and similar MMOs offer.

[vimm]

This is your priority?

[natashina]

Our priority is an official statement. There hasn't been one since March.

 

See my previous post about Battlefield. I don't see how this has to be any different.

 

We don't want SGRs in the game right now, we just want an answer.

Edited December 6, 2012 by natashina

[gjpelrine]

This is your priority?

 

Its as good as anyone else's

[erei]

Sadly, it sounds about right. I love how they claim that it's an RPG, how there are RP servers (Or well, one nowadays) and how you run into names like "Darthyoda" on said RP servers that are lvl 50s and have likely been reported several times for failing to follow the naming conventions of RP realms, yet still exist. All in all, the RPG part of MMORGPs is non-existent. RP is not just the ability to gain experience, learn skills and equip different gear. Need to have tools and the capability to actually role-play... which with a 4-line chat buffer is completely useless. I need to use 4 chat buffers to pull off a decent emote... let alone if I get in a creative mood and start writing paragraphs. When I get in the mood, even the Second Life chat buffer (Which is pretty damn huge) is not enough for me, let alone the pitiance TOR and similar MMOs offer.

For a game with a lot of hype around the story, and "create your own saga" etc... It's lacking a lot on the RP department. Lotro have more tools, you can play your own music, even make a band, smoking, housing, appearance tab, sitting on almost any chair, with differents animation if you are short (dwarf/hobbit) or not...

This game seriously lack customization and basic RP tools. Even for someone like me, who don't play on RP Server, and never rp with people, I think it's missing.

[Uluain]

Our priority is an official statement. There hasn't been one since March.

 

Further, as of the most recent Livestream Q&A (see dulfy.net for a transcript), that comment in March has been pretty much taken back. What we had last were Daniel Erickson's comments at the Guild Summit and since then Erickson has left the studio and there have been significant changes to the direction of the game.

 

We expressed concern several months ago that these changes might affect the timeline or scope of this content and voiced those concerns where we had be told was appropriate, and never heard a word. Now we hear, generally and nonspecifically, that not all of what was said at the summit is still current, but without being told whether or not same-gender romantic content is in that category.

 

The only statement remaining was made pre-launch, by the then Community Manager, Stephen Reid. He also is no longer with the studio, and his comments were made to a pre-launch audience, in September of 2011. Since launch, then, we've had one statement and it has been rescinded, leaving us with nothing at all.

 

So yes, for those not so totally disappointed and angered at how information is being selectively withheld in a deliberate and discriminatory fashion that we have ceased to play, this clarification is a priority.

Edited December 6, 2012 by Uluain

[natashina]

No, it's not. Unless you happen to have access to their marketing analysis. They have priorities based on profitability. Socio-political stances usually don't work so well, no matter which way you make the stand.

 

 

I'm going to just leave this here.

EA's stance on LGBT content in their games.

 

Electronic Arts head of global diversity and inclusion Ginger Maseda described a similar situation at EA, saying positive comments "far outweigh" negative comments across the board. And when it comes to the shareholders, she needed no such qualifiers.

 

"There have been no questions, comments or concerns raised from our investors with regards to support for LGBT initiatives in the community or having LGBT characters in our games," Maseda said, casting a net beyond DOMA and into the company's decisions to celebrate Pride Month and allow gay player characters in Star Wars: The Old Republic. "Essentially, it's been a non-issue from an investor perspective."

 

Money is not the issue.

 

The posters in the SGR thread had to write in and correct an assumption that was left in that very article:

CORRECTION: This article originally suggested that same-sex options had already been included in Star Wars: The Old Republic. BioWare has said it will include those in the future, but has not yet implemented them.

 

Love SGRs, hate SGRs, we're all players. I hope everyone is enjoying the game. I most certainly am.

Edited December 6, 2012 by natashina

[gjpelrine]

No, it's not. Unless you happen to have access to their marketing analysis. They have priorities based on profitability. Socio-political stances usually don't work so well, no matter which way you make the stand.

 

There is a quote, although I don't have it handy, that sums up how relevant SGRA's are to BW/EA's as far as marketing goes. I believe its from Gaider although I can't remember and its too much work to find it right now. Perhaps someone from the SGRA Clarification Thread can link it here if they have it handy. Anyway this quote states that people that have used and are interested in SGRA content is larger then most people think, so unless you have a marketing analysis to contradict this information I'd say that yes, anyone's priority in SWTOR is just as good as any other.

 

Found one Quote:

Quote: Originally Posted by Stephen Reid

First of all, this is definitely not an audience that consists of a 'couple of people' and we're aware of that. We take this decision very seriously.

Edited December 6, 2012 by gjpelrine

[darh_halo]

I hate to say this.. but put SGR as unlocks in cartel market say 700 cc/relation then BOOM you'll have it this month

[QwibQwib]

No one is saying that SGRs should be priority number one. I, for one, think that bug-fixes should always be priority one. But that's the great thing about the way things are developed. You don't have the people writing story stop writing because a bug needs fixed, or because they're working on something for PvP. They have teams dedicated to specific tasks. There's a team for fixing technical things, there's a community team, there's a PvP team, there's a story team, and so on. The story team devoting time to working on SGRs doesn't slow down the PvP team or the bug-fixing team; they're independent of one another. And, like Natashina brought up, it's a "non-issue" from an investor perspective, so money isn't an issue.

[Nozybidaj]

 

We don't want SGRs in the game right now, we just want an answer.

 

I do. It is 12 months over due far as I am concerned. This is baseline class story content. It boggles the mind really how they went live without it.