The Super Secret Space Project, F2P and its demise

[WarbNull]

Star Wars is about Space. So a good Space feature is needed. I guarantee that when everyone thinks of Star Wars they think of something that has to do with space in some form. Be it the Millennium Falcon, X-Wings, Death Star, Star Destroyers, space battles, traveling to other worlds, alien races, or what ever. Something revolving around space will be there. I know that when I was growing up when I thought of Space I always thought of owning my own ship and what that would be like to travel the galaxy. In SWG, JTL is what kept me playing that game after all that crap they put that game through. When I heard that SWTOR was being made, Space was the first thing I thought of and if they were going to make it any good.

Yet...

They definitely took a route I didn't expect. They had such a great opportunity to make something great. In my eyes though they just just dropped the ball. They basically added in a mini Console game and missed a great opportunity. Hopefully they can pick that ball back up and run with it. They can still make it great. I personally hope they do at some point. If they can just give us more than what we have now.

 

Simply put. The Rail System they have right now is not as popular as it could have been if it was off the rails. It is still good for what it is. I do not think they should remove the Rail System completely. It should stay in as well. There are some that like it and it is good for what it is.

But...

They do need to add the 3D Free Roaming Space into the game. We need some of Space to be off the rails. Doing so will bring a bit more people to the game. A lot more people want the 3D Free Roaming Space. Just reading the forums can show you this. It just makes more sense to add it in as well.

So...

Satisfying both styles of game play is the best way to go. The more you can appeal to the better off the game will be. It is the best route they can take.

 

I for one am asking BioWare to add in 3D Free Roaming Space. I would love for them to improve the game better than it already is.

[jarjarloves]

Too bad this game has been bleeding out subs even after the EA Investor call on July 31st.

 

every MMO is bleeding subs from Day 1. WoW has been bleeding subs since it hits its peak. When Mists of Pandara comes out it will have a bump in subs but after the relase subs will be bleeding.

 

Just with this game every new content patch subs go up then they bleed.

[Celwinn]

My question is:

 

Yes they may still be working on it, but how will it be distributed?

 

Will it be made available in the Cartel Shop? Will it be for only Sub players?

[Darev]

My question is:

 

Yes they may still be working on it, but how will it be distributed?

 

Will it be made available in the Cartel Shop? Will it be for only Sub players?

 

I'd like it as a retail box expansion that you, you know, BUY in a store.

[Celwinn]

every MMO is bleeding subs from Day 1. WoW has been bleeding subs since it hits its peak. When Mists of Pandara comes out it will have a bump in subs but after the relase subs will be bleeding.

 

Just with this game every new content patch subs go up then they bleed.

 

Honestly, it looks like the MMO genre are on a downfall. Seems like single player games (with Multiplayer aspects) are the future sadly.

Edited September 24, 2012 by Celwinn

[Goretzu]

I just want to add, while I hate flight simulators I would still like to see this added as a option. I hope that we get "larger" ships in this proposed system that allow for multiplayer participation. I am a far better "gunner" than I am a "pilot".

 

I think whether that is in will be a major part of how successful it is.

 

Multiplayer ships have the potential to be massively fun, if done well.

[Insomnio]

every MMO is bleeding subs from Day 1. WoW has been bleeding subs since it hits its peak. When Mists of Pandara comes out it will have a bump in subs but after the relase subs will be bleeding.

 

Just with this game every new content patch subs go up then they bleed.

 

I have never tried WOW. As someone looking at it from the outside, I see two disturbing things about the new expansion.

 

Number 1: Wow - >Shark) - Pandas

 

The panda expansion is clearly a jump the shark moment for that game. Its done, what could possibly come next?

 

Number 2: Pandas, pokemon gameplay, farmville. To me it looks like blizzard is pandering to little kids to play the game to get them "hooked" and ready to sub to WoW 2 when they are older. It reminds me of cigarette companies that used to target kids with cartoon character advertisments.

[Roechacca]

Truth is NO COMPANY dumps a 200 million dollar investment. Think of the corporate machine just for a moment. When a Corp doesn't get the results promised to share holders, what usually happens? First, they replace management. Then they replace workers. Lastly they call in experts. We are watching the corporate machine in damage control mode doing everything backwards as usual. Soon the experts will be called in and things will get done right. The corporate way is like the grief scale done backwards but make no mistake, they will pound at this game until a solution is found. As long as revenue is still in the foreseeable future.

[Urael]

Truth is NO COMPANY dumps a 200 million dollar investment. Think of the corporate machine just for a moment. When a Corp doesn't get the results promised to share holders, what usually happens? First, they replace management. Then they replace workers. Lastly they call in experts. We are watching the corporate machine in damage control mode doing everything backwards as usual. Soon the experts will be called in and things will get done right. The corporate way is like the grief scale done backwards but make no mistake, they will pound at this game until a solution is found. As long as revenue is still in the foreseeable future.

 

And the Jack Hodgins Conspiracy Thread Tin Foil Hat Award (™) goes to ....

 

[Roechacca]

And the Jack Hodgins Conspiracy Thread Tin Foil Hat Award (™) goes to ....

 

 

thank you

[Urael]

thank you

 

Don't thank me ... thank "The Man".

[MOPSFounder]

every MMO is bleeding subs from Day 1. WoW has been bleeding subs since it hits its peak. When Mists of Pandara comes out it will have a bump in subs but after the relase subs will be bleeding.

 

Just with this game every new content patch subs go up then they bleed.

Yes, I'm currently aware of that. But this game was supposed to be such a huge hit for BioWare. I've seen their pre-release dev videos and even though they never really said for this game to be a "WoW-killer", they certainly wanted their own product to contend with it.

 

WoW can survive with it's "dying" player-base because it's just that mainstream MMO. A lot of other MMOs like Rift, LotRO, etc. have already hit their niche community and now it's time that EAWare tries to do the same with their game before they bleed even more players.

 

I don't see this game ever being anywhere near 500k+ subs in the future, however. This dev team has handled this game very poorly from start to finish, controlled by a greedy publishing company that can't be trusted and definitely hasn't learned from their WAR flops.

[Andryah]

I'd like it as a retail box expansion that you, you know, BUY in a store.

 

Big project actually, so yeah I would expect to see it as part of a for-sale expansion, along with a bunch of other stuff as they need to provide content that is pleasing to a wide audience and not all SWTOR player are on pins and needles for 3d free form space flight/combat.

Edited September 24, 2012 by Andryah

[jarjarloves]

Yes, I'm currently aware of that. But this game was supposed to be such a huge hit for BioWare. I've seen their pre-release dev videos and even though they never really said for this game to be a "WoW-killer", they certainly wanted their own product to contend with it.

 

WoW can survive with it's "dying" player-base because it's just that mainstream MMO. A lot of other MMOs like Rift, LotRO, etc. have already hit their niche community and now it's time that EAWare tries to do the same with their game before they bleed even more players.

 

I don't see this game ever being anywhere near 500k+ subs in the future, however. This dev team has handled this game very poorly from start to finish, controlled by a greedy publishing company that can't be trusted and definitely hasn't learned from their WAR flops.

 

again now we are back to the definition of hit.

 

They said they needed 500k subs to be profitable. EA wants more profit so they are going to try F2P. We will see. The game has already made it's budget back and made a profit.

 

If you are talking about a critical success then it has achieved that already as the reviews are pretty good of the game.

 

 

It is most defently contending with WoW as WoW took a big hit when it came out. Now if they game ever gets released in China and offer the same pay by the min that WoW does over there then expect SWTOR sub numbers to jump up like WoW did.

 

 

But the real question is why do you care so much?

 

I play the game and I enjoy it. That's it. You seem to pay the sub but don't enjoy the game. So the question is why are you still here?

[jarjarloves]

Honestly, it looks like the MMO genre are on a downfall. Seems like single player games (with Multiplayer aspects) are the future sadly.

 

I wouldn't say that as there is still a TON of money to be made. But the P2P model is defently out the door. Games like LoL, TF2, LotrO, DCUO, DDO and others have all shown that you can make far more money with a cash shop then you can with a purchase model.

[alifaraaz]

they did say its still being worked on and that the SSSP ISNT the new Space Missions.

[MOPSFounder]

again now we are back to the definition of hit.

 

They said they needed 500k subs to be profitable. EA wants more profit so they are going to try F2P. We will see. The game has already made it's budget back and made a profit.

 

If you are talking about a critical success then it has achieved that already as the reviews are pretty good of the game.

 

 

It is most defently contending with WoW as WoW took a big hit when it came out. Now if they game ever gets released in China and offer the same pay by the min that WoW does over there then expect SWTOR sub numbers to jump up like WoW did.

 

 

But the real question is why do you care so much?

 

I play the game and I enjoy it. That's it. You seem to pay the sub but don't enjoy the game. So the question is why are you still here?

Do you really need to know? There's no reason anyone here needs to know why I'm here. I'm perfectly fine here, thank you.

 

Psh, critical success? Hm, I really think 500k–1mil subs (I think it was way below 1mil) during the EA Investor Call on July 31st and the announcement of F2P definitely shows this game's critical success. Also, back in May EA CEO John Riccitiello stated SWTOR isn't one of EA's top priorities. Doesn't seem EA really cares, unlike a lot of you that defend this game.

[Goretzu]

I wouldn't say that as there is still a TON of money to be made. But the P2P model is defently out the door. Games like LoL, TF2, LotrO, DCUO, DDO and others have all shown that you can make far more money with a cash shop then you can with a purchase model.

 

I'm still not convinced, TF2 is a different game, but things like LOTRO are now back to pre-F2P active account numbers (after a nice surge for 3 years), and whilst DDO is I think still doing ok, it was basically dead with subscription.

 

Can any made for F2P game ever match WoW for profits and longevity? I dunno.

 

 

they did say its still being worked on and that the SSSP ISNT the new Space Missions.

 

Yeah it is, unfortunately that still could mean almost anything. Until they give us details.

[Khevar]

They already said MANY TIMES the Super secret space project IS NOT ON RAILS.

 

...

I'm not trying to disagree with you here, because I would love for this to be true.

 

But I've been on the forums for months and months and I've never seen any post from a dev that indicated that the super secret project wasn't on rails. Every post I have read was very tight lipped about how awesome it would be but never said it wasn't on rails.

 

Can you please point me to even a single dev post that describes this? I would be very happy to read it.

[Khevar]

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=5025826#edit5025826 right there since you are too lazy and obviously didnt look. it took me two seconds to find it. Want me to find the one from Daniel Erickson where he explicitly states the SSSP ISNT on rails too? Or are you going to do your own research and stop spreading mis-information now? Seriously if you are going to come on here at least know what you are talking about.

I just searched the forums and wasn't able to find Daniel's post on the subject. A lot of posts came up from general forum goers but not a specific dev post.

 

If you wouldn't mind posting a link to that I would really appreciate it.

[Goretzu]

I'm not trying to disagree with you here, because I would love for this to be true.

 

But I've been on the forums for months and months and I've never seen any post from a dev that indicated that the super secret project wasn't on rails. Every post I have read was very tight lipped about how awesome it would be but never said it wasn't on rails.

 

Can you please point me to even a single dev post that describes this? I would be very happy to read it.

 

 

 

They have, I think, said that the SSSP wasn't the 10 new on-the-rails missions, from which it can be infered that the SSSP isn't on-the-rails.

 

But they haven't to my knowledge directly said the SSSP isn't "on rails".............. so therefore it could still be (i.e. multiplayer on-rails, or something else entirely like guild ships you can travel/on-the-rails battle on).

Edited September 24, 2012 by Goretzu

[jarjarloves]

I'm still not convinced, TF2 is a different game, but things like LOTRO are now back to pre-F2P active account numbers (after a nice surge for 3 years), and whilst DDO is I think still doing ok, it was basically dead with subscription.

 

Can any made for F2P game ever match WoW for profits and longevity? I dunno.

 

 

 

 

Yeah it is, unfortunately that still could mean almost anything. Until they give us details.

 

well LotrO is back to the pre F2P PEAK. So its numbers are around where they where when LotrO had it's biggest success during the P2P and like you said this is after 3 years of a nice surge. Of course they have a MAJOR expansion coming next month so we will see what that does to subs.

 

 

But yeah DDO is still doing way better then it ever has.

 

WoW's profits is a bit tricky. We know that it's 11 million peak isn't really 11 million. It was 4 million US+ EU with 7 million China pay per minute. Now i'm not saying Blizz hasn't been rolling in the dough and going skiing on mountains made of cash. But i am saying that it's unachiveable for another company.

 

I mean if SWTOR could make the equilivelent of 1 milliion subs a year in profits from its cash shop then that would be amazing.

 

Remember with even 500k subscribers it is still the second largest western MMO.

[jarjarloves]

I'm not trying to disagree with you here, because I would love for this to be true.

 

But I've been on the forums for months and months and I've never seen any post from a dev that indicated that the super secret project wasn't on rails. Every post I have read was very tight lipped about how awesome it would be but never said it wasn't on rails.

 

Can you please point me to even a single dev post that describes this? I would be very happy to read it.

 

I found this from an interview in June

 

http://www.darthhater.com/articles/swtor-news/20634-e3-2012-darth-hater-interview-with-daniel-erickson

 

In the future content trailer we saw the addition of a new space combat mission named “Space Station Assault.” Was this the secret space development you were talking about?

 

No.

 

Something different?

 

Yeah. It’s a very exciting space mission; it really feels different from the other ones. The flavor of the feel is very different when you’re trying to race through the middle of a space station and all that stuff. But it is at the core an evolution above the space game as it is.

 

What we’re talking about in the future is revolutionary. We’re talking about a completely different pixel space.

 

What interests me most is

 

 

 

What we’re talking about in the future is revolutionary. We’re talking about a completely different pixel space

Edited September 24, 2012 by jarjarloves

[Insomnio]

I found this from an interview in June

 

http://www.darthhater.com/articles/swtor-news/20634-e3-2012-darth-hater-interview-with-daniel-erickson

 

 

 

What interests me most is

 

 

 

What we’re talking about in the future is revolutionary. We’re talking about a completely different pixel space

 

Very vague, and really could mean anything. Revolutionary you say? How about the first on rails space shooter with a story component?

 

He could mean that they are putting guild capital ship in the outlying areas surrounding the fleets. Which would be an entirely different pixel space, but not that exciting really.

[Khevar]

Thanks, I had actually seen that interview. It's still open to interpretation, which bothers me.

 

Here's my interpretation:

 

1. Community members x, y and z are asking for "not-on-rails" space combat.

2. Bioware devs p, d, and q think that's a great idea and are lobbying to actually deliver that product.

3. Due to bureaucracy and bla-blas, it may not be possible to ever deliver this product.

4. Therefore, anybody that says out loud "we'll deliver a not-on-rails space mini-game" will be hanged from their toenails by management.

 

It seems to me that if their intention is to produce open-3D space combat, and this was actually approved by the powers-that-be, and it is actually in development for a release sooner than far-far-away, a dev would be allowed to say "the new super-secret space project will not be on rails".

 

Since nobody has actually said that in so many words (as far as I know) it seems they don't want to promise it because it could change.

Edited September 24, 2012 by Khevar