Fix the Premade Imbalance

[Pvtcarnage]

If you need me to explain that question, you already failed. Which isn't surprising considering everything you posted in this thread. At least you know you are killing the game PVP wise(Well to be fair, not just you but people like you). Honestly the only reason why people are against premades vs premades is because they don't want a challenge. It's hard for them to admit as well, they will use words like "too low of pop" or "not enough premades", which just isn't true.

 

Once again you added nothing insightful, I would ask you to stay on topic but I don't want to strain your limitations.

 

Not every game we play are a ROFLSTOMP there are a lot other that premade on our server as well. And you can say I ruining the game all you want, But it is a MMO and PvP is a TEAM sport. I like to play with my friends and we are all not geared yet and it would be silly to wait 45min a pop to likely loose due to lack of gear in RWZ's. What you should be complaining about is the lack of cross server ques because without it there is NO solution for you and others that feel the way you do. I pugged it for my first toon and it did not take long.

 

And as far as ranked goes, I believe the main reason it's failing is due to lack of rewards. Because to be competitive in RWZ's you need to have Full augmented WH that is also min/maxed at wich point you would no longer need the "reward" of ranked comms. Rather simple to figure out, but there there you go. But by all means blame players who choose to play with their friends for ruining it for the anti-social casuals that even if they had gear 90% of them would still suck. (I know this because I play Pugs as well, most are like watching a lemming death match)

 

And you added nothing insightful, just doom and gloom if BW does not change it to be more like GW2 pvp system.

 

Learn to troll better please.

 

EDIT: I also never said I was against premade vs premade... I just did not like most of your solutions to the problem and any good solution rely on BW getting x-server ques like I stated already.. Learn to comprehend.

Edited September 24, 2012 by Pvtcarnage

[DarthRaika]

The real gear grind is just when you have bought 2 sets of gear and really min/maxxed. WH itself really isn't THAT bad.

 

The main issue imo is 50%+ premade in optimized wh gear vs pug. I know bw can't do cross server tmrw but if they want their game to last a long time they need it and they need premade matching. Please just respond that you see this is a major issue and you will fix it as soon as you can and many of us will be happy.

 

Regardless of your team/solo opinions you should be smart enough to realize that the playerbase is falling fast and many many many past subscribers have given pvp as a major reason they are leaving.

 

Also I assume you think you are one of the "exceptional" people carnage....

 

Although I do agree with that quote you should probably think about it more. It is true but it is just very different than most people realize. I could write thousands of pages on this topic but I'd rather talk about premades right now lol.

[MandraMoody]

There is only one fair solution to this issue, and its not one that I like.

 

force everyone to queue solo unless its for ranked.

 

Not a good solution, but a fair one.

 

No I am not advocating that idea, I think it would suck but it would also be fair.

 

That's a great idea. A group of pugs up against a premade gives half the WZ no incentive to stay to be farmed.

[Masarko]

Played with a premade in CW yesterday, we lost.

 

working as intended yes

[Ycoga]

Played with a premade in CW yesterday, we lost.

 

working as intended yes

 

Premades aren't invincible. However in Huttball, its impossible for a PUG to beat a premade because of the speed of their TS communications. They can score every 30 secs or so.

 

However, skill can defeat premades in other WZ's. It actually happens fairly often on Progenitor.

[cycao]

That's a great idea. A group of pugs up against a premade gives half the WZ no incentive to stay to be farmed.

 

Man people make it out that all premades are good and know what they are doing.

[Veniras]

Man people make it out that all premades are good and know what they are doing.

 

On my server the majority of premades are coordinated and well-geared, winng the majority of the WZ. PUGGING against them just isn't fun at all. It's a recipe for losing the "casuals" getting into PVP

[anstalt]

1) Extend ranking system to everyone, no matter what type of warzone they are playing.

 

2) Balanace warzones based on ranking.

 

3) Profit

 

Seriously, gear level, premades etc mean nothing in the grand scheme of things. Actual skill and teamwork are the only things that truely matter and having every single warzone contribute to your ranking will result in "good" statistics. for example, last night I ran a guild premade. I'm valor 73 with half warhero, however I was running with a valor 15 sage with 12k health, a valor 34 sage with 14k health and a valor 54 gunslinger with 16k health. We won some, lost some, but had a good laugh. Balancing warzones based on premade or not is silly because it is not proper balance. Balancing on rating would be much better, so that a premade like mine with a low rating would avoid premades with more experienced pvpers and a higher rating.

 

TL;DR: balance warzones using a rating system, not based on gear or group size.

[kcol]

I don't know what the solution is, but telling people they can't group in an MMO is WRONG. I only solo queue, from 7pm to 11 on week nights and all day long on the weekends. I win, I lose, but what I take from a loss is vital experience.

 

Playing against the premades of Physics, Whoops and Sentinels HAS made me a better player, not great, but I can hold my own.

[Przemo_No]

...as i said elsewhere, the solution would be to have some "separation" system that checks upon player "gear level".

So those who are just staring PVP and do not have a chance to be geared higher than, say, half BM stay within that level of gear and fight against similarly geared enemies.

 

Those who managed to have better gear and weapons are fighting in their own "tier". Just to be fair.

 

That leaves at least a chance to show the skill of playing and not just being trashed within seconds by some high technology tanks fighting against poor geared troops with wooden spires.

 

i do not mind playing against "premade" group, provided they have the same defense/attack chance/stats as randomly gathered group. Then the strategy, co-operation and team playing come to play. They become important. They become crucial. And not only gear/weapon.

 

This is still a game, not politics.

I hate politics.

Edited September 25, 2012 by Przemo_No
additions

[Pvtcarnage]

The real gear grind is just when you have bought 2 sets of gear and really min/maxxed. WH itself really isn't THAT bad.

 

The main issue imo is 50%+ premade in optimized wh gear vs pug. I know bw can't do cross server tmrw but if they want their game to last a long time they need it and they need premade matching. Please just respond that you see this is a major issue and you will fix it as soon as you can and many of us will be happy.

 

Regardless of your team/solo opinions you should be smart enough to realize that the playerbase is falling fast and many many many past subscribers have given pvp as a major reason they are leaving.

 

Also I assume you think you are one of the "exceptional" people carnage....

 

Although I do agree with that quote you should probably think about it more. It is true but it is just very different than most people realize. I could write thousands of pages on this topic but I'd rather talk about premades right now lol.

 

No one knows the % of what people are leaving for, your just guessing. What you read in the forums is less than 1% of total players and is no measure to go by.

 

Never said I was "Exceptional" or claimed anything like that. Your just assuming things again and we all know the saying about when you assume things. I believe I'm a good player but there is always someone better. I strive to be the best I can.

Edited September 25, 2012 by Pvtcarnage

[DarthRaika]

the percentage i placed in my post was refering to 4+ players ( 4 of 8). The + I meant when people get their lync q going and it works.

 

I don't know how many people are leaving because of that I just know that a lot of people I have played with qq'd about this more than anything else and eventually I didn't see them online anymore. Also I have played mmos for many years and I know from experience that this can hurt numbers. Also, this is pretty much the worst I have ever seen in a game. I don't mean the worst gear imbalance as I have seen much worse I just mean worst for premade easymode. Rift was pretty bad with premades for awhile but because of the higher skill cap and larger number of players in a warzone to max premade size many pugs beat many of the best premades pretty often.

[DarthRaika]

Also one funny thing that makes sense when you think about how the q system currently works is that when I group with random friends we actually face premades less than when we pug individually. I have talked to a lot of people about this and they say the same thing after they try it out lol. This is part of why I'm saying that with cross server in place then a premade matching system would still be near instant q's for them and more fun.

 

Another reason I want this is if they do this then I will premade a lot more often since I hate pugstomping but I enjoy competitive pvp.

[DanteDeLaRocha]

Since launch I've played a lot of PvP. It's one of the main things that kept me playing this game. After my first toon turned 50, the pvp change was quite a shock. I did manage to learn some new skills and suck it up a bit while getting geared. I'm currently about half BM half WH geared. As time went on the imbalance of the matches got worse and worse and pvp got more and more frustrating.

 

The server merges have only made this worse in my opinion. People who think you get lucky and queue joining a premade are crazy. I just keep hitting pug group after pug group against the same premades. I don't mind the pug groups at all, I mind the premades farming us. You know it's not going to be a good day when you're 5 minutes in and don't have a single medal because you can't touch the other team or have teammates survive long enough to heal them. I've quit 50 pvp altogether.

 

On the positive side, I've discovered a whole other part to the game: HM FPs and gearing for PvE. Thankfully it is also fun and has been occupying me in the meantime. I've also been leveling my alts, playing sub 50 pvp and having just as much fun as I ever did. Gunslingers are a blast (har har)!

 

>>>THIS NEEDS TO BE FIXED!!<<<

[Crawelc]

Since launch I've played a lot of PvP. It's one of the main things that kept me playing this game. After my first toon turned 50, the pvp change was quite a shock. I did manage to learn some new skills and suck it up a bit while getting geared. I'm currently about half BM half WH geared. As time went on the imbalance of the matches got worse and worse and pvp got more and more frustrating.

 

The server merges have only made this worse in my opinion. People who think you get lucky and queue joining a premade are crazy. I just keep hitting pug group after pug group against the same premades. I don't mind the pug groups at all, I mind the premades farming us. You know it's not going to be a good day when you're 5 minutes in and don't have a single medal because you can't touch the other team or have teammates survive long enough to heal them. I've quit 50 pvp altogether.

 

On the positive side, I've discovered a whole other part to the game: HM FPs and gearing for PvE. Thankfully it is also fun and has been occupying me in the meantime. I've also been leveling my alts, playing sub 50 pvp and having just as much fun as I ever did. Gunslingers are a blast (har har)!

 

>>>THIS NEEDS TO BE FIXED!!<<<

 

So you played since launch and just now 10 months later notice the imbalance in pvp? Grats on taking 10 months to level up. Not trying to troll but based on your entire post there is no way you played this game since launch. I was a 50 when there was no pre 50 bracket. I was also an alt when there was no pre 50 bracket. EAWare is dumbing down this game as fast as they can for the carebears. Dont pretend you remember when it was actually hard to get gear and the imbalance between Centurion and Battlemaster made Recruit to War Hero seem like a walk in the park.

Edit: I am NOT complaining about imbalance in gear. Its a MMO, you grind gear... Unless half naked children are your thing. Then you play GW2 and get free gear.

Edited September 26, 2012 by Crawelc

[Kyuuu]

imo pvp solo people should be put up again solo people, people that grouped should be up against group. only way to make it fair for all, but i dont see this ever happen unless pvp becomes cross server pvp.

 

Sorta how ranked is only group of 8 people.

[DarthRaika]

one issue also is in lots of games (take rift for this example) you have tiers of gera and you can only go a little beyond that. This also makes it obvious who is P8 for example (rift). While the imbalance was pretty bad at start I actually think that recruit to MODDED aug wh is larger than new 50 early on (of course not the lvl 10 against them haha).

 

I do think the difference is fine though. I just with they made modding in pvp only a slight difference possible and they added a new tier of gear so that the same gear difference would exist. It would just be more obvious. Lots of bad players like to think they are good when they are way higher stats then the average wh even.

[Arispinio]

In these pages i honestly read things that hurted my eyes! Some ppl that probably suck in pvp ask from BW to "fix" pvp queues in order to get some wins... I 've seen ppl proposing several stupid ideas like "recruit geared pvp bracket" and the list goes on. BW has actually done something about pvp that frustrates some ppl like me who play only pvp with some irl friends. The 4man cap in normal wzs and the 8man cap in rated. It 's already enough annoying that if we are 5 friends online we cannot queue together. Regarding the gear issues some ppl addresing, yes some folks have better gear than others but asking not to play against some1 because he has better gear is just silly at least. How would you like it if group finder was only for puggers and you could not go into an FP if you overgeared it??

Plus since ppl from both functions are complaining for pugs then this means there are pugs from both sides so stop qqing. Several time i lost games being in a pug and have 4 team8s with 13k or less hp. I do not complain though because i understand that they have to start gearing up, no 1 started to pvp in war hero gear. In other words, the game is meant to be played by team8s and not solo, if you don t like go "own" in somekind of rpg, otherwise start socializing in game, add other solo pvpers in your friend list and in no time you will have a pug group and be 1 of the ppl you flame atm.

[Slicktime]

In these pages i honestly read things that hurted my eyes! Some ppl that probably suck in pvp ask from BW to "fix" pvp queues in order to get some wins... I 've seen ppl proposing several stupid ideas like "recruit geared pvp bracket" and the list goes on. BW has actually done something about pvp that frustrates some ppl like me who play only pvp with some irl friends. The 4man cap in normal wzs and the 8man cap in rated. It 's already enough annoying that if we are 5 friends online we cannot queue together. Regarding the gear issues some ppl addresing, yes some folks have better gear than others but asking not to play against some1 because he has better gear is just silly at least. How would you like it if group finder was only for puggers and you could not go into an FP if you overgeared it??

Plus since ppl from both functions are complaining for pugs then this means there are pugs from both sides so stop qqing. Several time i lost games being in a pug and have 4 team8s with 13k or less hp. I do not complain though because i understand that they have to start gearing up, no 1 started to pvp in war hero gear. In other words, the game is meant to be played by team8s and not solo, if you don t like go "own" in somekind of rpg, otherwise start socializing in game, add other solo pvpers in your friend list and in no time you will have a pug group and be 1 of the ppl you flame atm.

 

basically you are saying its 100% ok for premades to completely roll pugs? your solution is for everyone else to get in groups and stop complaining? if people are that good and some guilds are they don't need to be grouping up and rolling into pugs. PERIOD. premades should only face other premades and pugs should only face other pugs. is it impossible to beat a premade of course not but the chance of beating a premade on ts/vent/mumble goes wayyyyyyy down than vs a pug.

[Veniras]

imo pvp solo people should be put up again solo people, people that grouped should be up against group. only way to make it fair for all, but i dont see this ever happen unless pvp becomes cross server pvp.

 

Well, then they will probably lose us PUGGERS. I'm not gonna continue playing a game with that kind of team imbalance.

 

ANd no, I dont WANT to do a premade!

Edited September 26, 2012 by Veniras

[Przemo_No]

In these pages i honestly read things that hurted my eyes! Some ppl that probably suck in pvp ask from BW to "fix" pvp queues in order to get some wins... I 've seen ppl proposing several stupid ideas like "recruit geared pvp bracket"

 

Can you elaborate on what do you think is stupid here?

 

 

BW has actually done something about pvp that frustrates some ppl like me who play only pvp with some irl friends.

 

Well, there are zillion people who don't because they do not have IRL friends nor the feel like. Or they play at times when friends are working/sleeping etc.

 

 

... the game is meant to be played by team8s and not solo...

 

The PVP part of course. But does it mean that the game is designed the way the new players are always getting smashed by "Serious PVP Players" - how they can grow and get the required gear if they only loose?

 

I thought some level of fairness should be in place. I mean being level 14 you do not fight the boss on level 45, because you are simply helpless. So it that what you want of us all?

 

How can a recruit geared random gathered 8 ppl team beat highly developed and organized group of "Serious PVP Player "according to you??

 

Lemme know, i will certainly take it into account...

Edited September 26, 2012 by Przemo_No
typos

[Koltoclone]

How dare people who have time invested into a character group with friends who also have time invested into a character and participate in one of the core parts of a social video game they bought. Edited September 26, 2012 by Koltoclone

[Arispinio]

Can you elaborate on what do you think is stupid here?

 

 

 

 

Well, there are zillion people who don't because they do not have IRL friends nor the feel like. Or they play at times when friends are working/sleeping etc.

 

 

 

 

The PVP part of course. But does it mean that the game is designed the way the new players are always getting smashed by "Serious PVP Players" - how they can grow and get the required gear if they only loose?

 

I thought some level of fairness should be in place. I mean being level 14 you do not fight the boss on level 45, because you are simply helpless. So it that what you want of us all?

 

How can a recruit geared random gathered 8 ppl team beat highly developed and organized group of "Serious PVP Player "according to you??

 

Lemme know, i will certainly take it into account...

 

 

What you do not understand is that there is no good way to keep premade groups not fighting solo queuers. And most of the solutions you guys propose will end the same way rated wzs are now. With LOOOONGGGGG queue. So i ask you this, is it fair for me and other players that can play in pre made having to w8 for more than 1hour in queue in a server with 500 ppl (both fanctions) online just because you and some others feel it 's not fair to fight against premades??

[anstalt]

I'll say it again as many people missed my earlier post:

 

Being in a premade does not mean automatic wins.

 

Being in fully augmented warhero does not make you a god.

 

 

If Bioware EVER try to balance PvP based on group size and gear level then they will fail miserably. Its as simple as that. There is only one viable route to balancing normal warzones: full rating system.

 

Ranked warzones affect the players rating so that after a while the person ends up with a reasonably accurate rating which takes in to account win / loss ratio and the rating of your opponent. Bioware need to extend that system to every single pvper, then try to place similarly rated people in the same warzones.

 

For example, in my guild we are currently trying to get more people in to pvp. The other night I ran a premade. I'm valor 74 with 5 pieces of warhero, the rest is BM. The rest of my team, however, were all sub-60 and none of them had full battlemaster! 2 were in recruit gear, 1 had mostly BM. Our sage healer was only valor rank 14! We probably had a 50/50 win / lose ratio for the night due to our inexperience and lack of gear. If Bioware follow the short-sightedness of most posters in this thread then my inexperienced undergeared premade would only ever be able to fight other premades. We'd get our butts handed to us just as often as pugs would if we came up against experienced full WH premades! In other words, the balancing mechanic being suggested by the OP and most other people WOULD FAIL.

 

 

Balance based on player rating, not on gear level, group size or valor rank. Skill is king

[Koltoclone]

I'll say it again as many people missed my earlier post:

 

Being in a premade does not mean automatic wins.

 

Being in fully augmented warhero does not make you a god.

 

 

If Bioware EVER try to balance PvP based on group size and gear level then they will fail miserably. Its as simple as that. There is only one viable route to balancing normal warzones: full rating system.

 

Ranked warzones affect the players rating so that after a while the person ends up with a reasonably accurate rating which takes in to account win / loss ratio and the rating of your opponent. Bioware need to extend that system to every single pvper, then try to place similarly rated people in the same warzones.

 

For example, in my guild we are currently trying to get more people in to pvp. The other night I ran a premade. I'm valor 74 with 5 pieces of warhero, the rest is BM. The rest of my team, however, were all sub-60 and none of them had full battlemaster! 2 were in recruit gear, 1 had mostly BM. Our sage healer was only valor rank 14! We probably had a 50/50 win / lose ratio for the night due to our inexperience and lack of gear. If Bioware follow the short-sightedness of most posters in this thread then my inexperienced undergeared premade would only ever be able to fight other premades. We'd get our butts handed to us just as often as pugs would if we came up against experienced full WH premades! In other words, the balancing mechanic being suggested by the OP and most other people WOULD FAIL.

 

 

Balance based on player rating, not on gear level, group size or valor rank. Skill is king

 

***? A logical post on these forums??? No wai!