Consolidated Post: APAC/Oceanic Server Concerns

[xxpcwizardxx]

This one made me laugh. They can barely address the lag the US players are getting on US servers.

 

which is probably y we haven't heard anything on APAC Merger but i still think getting the transfer system they had on 1.2 is still being worked on to make it work with 2.0

[Cheezfriend]

Hey Guys, as I said, i'll be back, so here I am!!!

 

I will keep this short and to the point!

 

Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread!!!! It is one of the largest ever made for this MMO and it will be foot printed into the history of this MMO. It will be a constant hangover and a reminder of how things can go wrong in an MMO, particularly from the customer service side of things

 

I am disappointed in EA's decision to shut down all APAC servers, they should of left at least one!

 

I cant help but think that maybe this thread had something to do with Joveth Gonzalez leaving the game, and from a customer service and community point of view, this is a good thing. I think Eric Musso has done an awesome job of giving us the news, although it isnt what we wanted to hear.

 

Please make an official announcement about this!

 

See you in game (for now)

 

<3 Chippy

[ChuangTzu]

Hey Guys, as I said, i'll be back, so here I am!!!

 

I will keep this short and to the point!

 

Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread!!!! It is one of the largest ever made for this MMO and it will be foot printed into the history of this MMO. It will be a constant hangover and a reminder of how things can go wrong in an MMO, particularly from the customer service side of things

 

I am disappointed in EA's decision to shut down all APAC servers, they should of left at least one!

 

I cant help but think that maybe this thread had something to do with Joveth Gonzalez leaving the game, and from a customer service and community point of view, this is a good thing. I think Eric Musso has done an awesome job of giving us the news, although it isnt what we wanted to hear.

 

Please make an official announcement about this!

 

See you in game (for now)

 

<3 Chippy

 

Good to see you back, yes it is a great shame about their decision but I guess we should be happy they atleast made one. The wrong one but they did make one.

[eventidephoenix]

I for one am appreciative of the communication as well.

 

I think they should have tried at least to give free transfers to Dalborra, and/or to the respective US RP and PVP servers, and see if Dalborra's population would be enough to sustain their cost of hosting a server here.

 

All in all I'm happy they are addressing our concerns and we don't know how it will pan out, so maybe let's all not be so pessimistic. MAYBE the cost saved on APAC servers means they can buy more bandwidth for American servers? If that's not the case we will know soon after transfers and I am sure the quality of life with largely bad pings will make a lot of us vote with our wallets.

[ChuangTzu]

I for one am appreciative of the communication as well.

 

I think they should have tried at least to give free transfers to Dalborra, and/or to the respective US RP and PVP servers, and see if Dalborra's population would be enough to sustain their cost of hosting a server here.

 

All in all I'm happy they are addressing our concerns and we don't know how it will pan out, so maybe let's all not be so pessimistic. MAYBE the cost saved on APAC servers means they can buy more bandwidth for American servers? If that's not the case we will know soon after transfers and I am sure the quality of life with largely bad pings will make a lot of us vote with our wallets.

 

I don't see them doing anything other than just moving us across, that would mean they might actually care about APAC players, which they clearly don't.

[fushnchips]

Well I finally unsubbed today will re-sub once the merge or transfers open up.

[sabbey]

I don't see them doing anything other than just moving us across, that would mean they might actually care about APAC players, which they clearly don't.

 

Honestly, I think if that was true, they would just shut the servers down with a big middle finger and no transfer... But yeah, if it's indeed about the cost of running them they should just come out and say it. I get the feeling some won't like it either way, but it would give this a bit more closure so people could either find a way to get used to the idea or move to another game if they can't... I am trying to stay optimistic myself, but feel for those who aren't as optimistic than I am.

Edited April 29, 2013 by sabbey

[MouldyCrow]

Cracks me up that this is still ongoing. Announce the migration to US servers, people quit then for the people that stay on they do nothing. LOL. They should have just kept their mouths shut and maybe milked a few people for a bit more money.

 

Bunch of idiots. They don't give a **** about APAC players. Glad I quit when they announced it and looking like it'll stay that way.

[Aeydon]

Had I have known that this was happening, I wouldn't have subbed in the first place.

I'm pretty sure that the APAC playerbase would rather have one single server than

Oceanic servers being shut down and forced to move to NA servers.

 

High ping does not equal "best play experience". High ping only makes it frustrating.

 

Hell, MDN is so empty it may as well be PvE.

Edited April 29, 2013 by Aeydon

[Dredead]

Please please please please pleeeaaase listen to us BioWare and EA.

 

 

You can so effectively do both. You can merge the servers AND offer free transfers to the selected NA servers for those who desire it (though I can almost guarantee the tiny amount of players transferring off will be a surprise to you along with how the population issue will diminish, which is a total surprise to us considering how intuitive this suggestion is).

 

 

I'm not gonna throw my hands up in the air, swear and be rude like many others have done. I'm just filled with frustration knowing that there is absolutely nothing I can do to get you to go with this suggestion and the fact that this post may fall on deaf ears, blind eyes, or worse, not even be read by any one of you all (I can hope). This is my heart felt plea for you guys to make the right decision by both parties.

 

 

As a game designer myself, I fully understand that you have a vision of what you want your baby to be and how you want it to be experienced by the players, and so I reserve my utmost respect for you and the basis for your decision (not the decision itself). The reason for this is because I also fully understand that the concept of success of an MMO is vastly different to any other game, single and multiplayer alike. As unfortunate as it is for the designer, creating an MMO automatically means that you MUST be willing to make compromises and changes that the PLAYERS want to keep the players happy. Ultimately, a huge chunk of the experience is up to them and not us. I know this is trivial and goes without saying but I feel it should be stated anyway.

 

 

Now to the relevant point. You believe that the ideal and optimal experience for the player involves a good population for them to have people to play with to clear content in an immersive team environment, with fast que times, GTN sales etc etc. Let me say that I FULLY understand this and am in no way missing the point of your decision, this is what the game was initially designed around after all. It's an MMO ffs. However, this is one of those said compromises that you MUST BE WILLING TO MAKE AS AN MMO DESIGNER. There are thousands upon thousands of posts in this exact thread, written by your valued players that are promising to unsubscribe due to this decision. This is a horrifying thought from developer point of view and would be just that for me. It is and should be a given that this would never have happened if you made the decision to solely merge the servers, a neutral effect. Furthermore, if you'd chosen to offer both from the beginning it would have had a positive effect! The players would be cheering because it's about what they want, as unfortunate as it is.

 

 

In contrast, I do believe that this suggestion wouldn't have a positive effect on every player of ToR, but only on those it would affect. What I mean by this is that an American player would have a completely different reaction to something like this. The reason for this is that not one of them has ever had to develop our idea of an optimal experience through the enduring of unreasonable ping. I may be way off the mark in saying this, but I also believe that only a minimal amount of the devs have experienced this either. It wouldn't be so bad if every player in the world constantly experienced 200ms (170 with TCPAckFrequency tweaking) as we would all be on an even playing field, but this isn't the case. Oceanic players experience that kind of ping while attempting to play with and compete against players experiencing downwards of 15ms (I'm sure it's less but we get around 14ms constant here on MDN, I've heard players from the US scream like children when they "lag" at 10ms) just isn't happening. It's just that we've always put up with it due to lack of choice.

 

 

Could you imagine if everyone in the US was forced to play at 200ms from here on? You know as well as we do that you would go broke overnight. GG ToR, simple as that. Like I said, I've seen NA players rage quit for the night due to less. This also ties in with the change of community we will be experiencing (again). I will elaborate more on this soon.

 

 

I'll now go in to my own experience. Having made the move from WoW to ToR at launch, as many others had done, I rolled on an NA server and was still very much used to the general 200 odd ms ping, and so my perspective on response time and its effect on gameplay remained unchanged. When the oceanic servers were announced, I was quite anxious to finally experience MMO gaming (namely pvp, which latency obviously effects the most), especially with the extensive experience I've had with competitive arena pvp at high ping. I played a rogue and you really get a good idea of how incorrect the enemy's position is displayed to you when you get a sap off and they port 5m in a different direction, all due to ping. Half your time is spent extremely confused as to why you are unable to get an ability off when, from your perspective, you are running RIGHT behind the enemy.

 

 

Now, when I first had the absolute pleasure of logging in to MDN for the first time after my guild's transfer, the first thing I did was mount up... in all honesty I don't even have the words to describe the extent to which I was absolutely amazed by the fact that I had mounted INSTANTLY! I had never experienced anything like it in the MMO world, I haden't even checked my ping yet but when I did and saw a 2 digit number, I thought this was the greatest thing in the world. I qued for a warzone and had the best multiplayer pvp experience I had ever had in my life. Absolutely no BS and perfect response. I know I sound like a child in a candy store right now but this is the basis on which every player that unsubbed due to your decision did so. It trully brought us to the point where none of us even cared about the low pop. If we had, we would have unsubbed a long time ago. It trully isn't about that to us. Slow que times, long pug attempts, minimal money making on the GTN, PVE, PVP, RP, I would take it and it endure it all FOREVER!!! Just give me my optimal experience! THIS is what it is about to us, being able to play and hold our own with NO disadvantage, nor the feeling that we as oceanic players are always forgotten about and constantly swept under the rug. Not to mention that we are currently in a more local community. I appreciate the fact that you did think of us, but in the wrong way

 

 

Believe it or not, we can still run the content. That is all I want from this game, the population and que times are secondary and will mostly be solved when the servers are merged. It doesn't matter how long it takes, it still gets done. Correct me if I'm wrong but playability is the intention of you and this game (The Game). We are willing to compromise and lose a small portion of our community to transfers by your will. That's fine, as long as you are willing to compromise and do what it takes to keep our business. There is a point where that is what MMOs, or any game types are about! Business! You NEED the players, the players only WANT you. Make them keep wanting!

 

 

On a final note which I believe to be the most vastly overlooked one yet, and in absolutely no way do I mean any disrespect by this. However, my experience with the oceanic community has been so much better than that amongst the players on any NA server, and I'm not just referring to any single MMO. There is a much higher level of respect and not much ever elevates past a light hearted joke. There are less elitists and I find the general level of etiquette to be much, much higher. This aspect has a huge impact on the player experience and in my opinion is one of the most important. I could go on but do not wish to offend. Again, this is just my experience as a player.

 

 

In a nutshell, there's no way I am going back to all the things an NA server has to offer again. It just wouldn't be the same, not when I have finally been given the opportunity to experience this game the way you, the developers, intended it. No other MMO i've played has offered me that, as trivial as that is. I allude back to my child in a candy store statement and say that this would be like reaping the most amazing candy from a baby after it was finally given the same said candy as all the other children. You may think the lack of population makes it a different candy, but the beholder says the opposite.

 

 

Allowing transfers alongside the merging of the servers is the sole solution, there are no other options in the eyes of the good of the company. I preemptively give my vote for our new merged server to be a PVP one, but that is just my preference, I honestly do not mind unless you are planning on improvements to world PVP. In which case, a PVP server would also be in your best interest for the majority. But I'm open to whatever, even if I have to talk and act like a sith, I'm easy and could dig that too.

 

 

I've chosen to overlook the fact that you didn't comment on the fact that we have suggested this solution of doing both many times in this thread, mainly due to the fact that I'm completely unsure as to why, and also that I may have completely missed the post, in which case, I apologise. I withhold my judgment and hope that you will make the correct decision (I'm thinking about all of us). So many times have I seen devs ruin amazing games because they refuse to go back on their initial idea just so they don't have to admit they were wrong (not that this is by any means a case of wrong or right, but I know how many developers can be/feel when it comes to this, you are after all, human. I feel it should be reassured)

 

 

/essay

 

 

 

Dred

Edited April 29, 2013 by Dredead

[ChuangTzu]

I think this sums up what a lot of oceanic players feel. I have also been saying that what will be the worse loss will be the community we have built. If you have toons on US servers like I do you will know what I'm talking about. More than 50% of the time my GF experiences are bad, it its probably only 5-10% of the time on Dalborra. Edited April 29, 2013 by ChuangTzu

[Ultramecha]

Wow just realized this thread started last year...

[Zral]

I really hope you consider listening to the community. Please please make this an optional transfer and keep at least one oceanic server.

 

I'm finally starting to really enjoy myself since re-subscribing after several months away, but if this goes through it's looking pretty likely to be as big a reason as any to un-subscribe, which really saddens me.

[fushnchips]

The quicker they do this merge the better I still don't know what NA server i will move all 10 L55 toons to but Dalborra isn't a healthy server and they never should have setup 3 servers from day 1. I do feel sorry for the people that like the RP or PVP style of play but when the Oceanic server plans were announced back for the launch of this region they should never have had 3 servers just 1 and everything would have been fine.

[ChuangTzu]

The quicker they do this merge the better I still don't know what NA server i will move all 10 L55 toons to but Dalborra isn't a healthy server and they never should have setup 3 servers from day 1. I do feel sorry for the people that like the RP or PVP style of play but when the Oceanic server plans were announced back for the launch of this region they should never have had 3 servers just 1 and everything would have been fine.

 

Dalborra is not too bad, I can't speak for PvP but pops on the GF are not bad for tanks and healers, dps is always slow. Add the population of the other two servers and we would be good.

[DuckimusPrime]

The quicker they do this merge the better I still don't know what NA server i will move all 10 L55 toons to but Dalborra isn't a healthy server and they never should have setup 3 servers from day 1. I do feel sorry for the people that like the RP or PVP style of play but when the Oceanic server plans were announced back for the launch of this region they should never have had 3 servers just 1 and everything would have been fine.

 

Multiple servers were needed at the launch of the Oceanic servers. My friends and I only ended up rolling on Gav Daragon because we couldn't get onto Dalborra. However, the population did drop significantly as Bioware sat on their hands and failed miserably at addressing problems and adding new content to keep people interested in the game.

 

When they went through the server consolidation in North America and Europe it should've been done for the three APAC servers as well. Instead they continued to sit on their hands and do nothing as the population continued to dwindle, some people rerolling on NA servers, some just leaving.

 

Bioware's claims that people want to keep their server type have been shown to be a joke, since on the announcement of the transfers, the first thing people asked for was to make it an open transfer to servers of their choice. So much for the PVPers wanting to stay on a PVP server, and the RPers wanting to stay on an RP server.

 

And then we were thinking the decision to merge to the US is driven by the cost of running the servers in Australia. It clearly wasn't a year long contract they were waiting out... since we've already passed that. And if the servers were too expensive to run... well wouldn't it be cheaper to be running one server at the present moment?

[ChuangTzu]

Multiple servers were needed at the launch of the Oceanic servers. My friends and I only ended up rolling on Gav Daragon because we couldn't get onto Dalborra. However, the population did drop significantly as Bioware sat on their hands and failed miserably at addressing problems and adding new content to keep people interested in the game.

 

When they went through the server consolidation in North America and Europe it should've been done for the three APAC servers as well. Instead they continued to sit on their hands and do nothing as the population continued to dwindle, some people rerolling on NA servers, some just leaving.

 

Bioware's claims that people want to keep their server type have been shown to be a joke, since on the announcement of the transfers, the first thing people asked for was to make it an open transfer to servers of their choice. So much for the PVPers wanting to stay on a PVP server, and the RPers wanting to stay on an RP server.

 

And then we were thinking the decision to merge to the US is driven by the cost of running the servers in Australia. It clearly wasn't a year long contract they were waiting out... since we've already passed that. And if the servers were too expensive to run... well wouldn't it be cheaper to be running one server at the present moment?

 

Well said.

[Master_Reuben]

There are thousands upon thousands of posts in this exact thread, written by your valued players that are promising to unsubscribe due to this decision. This is a horrifying thought from developer point of view and would be just that for me. It is and should be a given that this would never have happened if you made the decision to solely merge the servers, a neutral effect

 

Not really a neutral effect IMO. We're not exactly leaking subs like we used to be, and the ones we're losing now are mostly because our servers are getting killed. So I'm pretty sure if we had 1 local server the population of APAC players would increase from there, which would be a positive effect.

Edited April 30, 2013 by Master_Reuben

[entropicdecay]

Master Dar'Nala is getting to the point now where there sometimes aren't enough people queued in the 55 bracket to get a WZ pop.

 

Tonight I got a pop at about 11:05, it was a huttball 6vs7.. not even a full game.. it lasted about 2 minutes, then I got no more pops for around 25 minutes (so there simply weren't enough people queued) until one full 8v8 spawned, then 2 games in a row that were short on players and ended early.

 

If it gets to the point where I can't get WZ pops any more there will be no reason to keep playing. If people playing 11-12pm give up and stop playing, then all of a sudden 9-10 will struggle as well, then 8-9.. its a cascade.

 

Shame really, I'm still enjoying playing despite all of the current problems with WZs.

[Thepainfairy]

What I find concerning is the fact that it appears -eric is the only moderator for the entire Community forums.....this possibly speaks volumes about why nothing is getting done/read/replied to because the staffing levels are just not there..so it very well could be an effort in futility to even post constantly on this thread hoping for an update or something to happen. Edited April 30, 2013 by Thepainfairy

[Dredead]

Just keep bumping and pray to whatever gaming god you believe in

[iheartnyc]

Exactly. They claim this will give us a better play experience but all we will get is lag and annoying Americans! If you have played on the harbinger you will know what I'm talking about.

 

Which is why some of the more level-headed people from APAC who had rerolled on both Harbringer and Bastion were advising you all to go to the Bastion...but hey I hope you enjoy playing on a server full of trolls.

[Leweegibo]

finally actually un-subbed today, such a shame but cant do much about it

[Applicator]

Dalborra population is fine at the moment, can't speak for the other 2 servers. I really like the good pink I get (10ms) and don't particularly want to go back to the US where 150-200ms is typical. It makes such a huge difference in PVP and a decent difference in PVE.

[ChuangTzu]

Which is why some of the more level-headed people from APAC who had rerolled on both Harbringer and Bastion were advising you all to go to the Bastion...but hey I hope you enjoy playing on a server full of trolls.

 

I'd rather not go at all but I rolled on a PvE server for a reason and don't want to change that.