Consolidated Post: APAC/Oceanic Server Concerns

[Pattotwo]

The Biggest Fail, EA have done... IS there is NO ADVERTISING in Australia for this game... What sort of bussiness model are you running..

Seriously, there is such a market here, but no one knows.. You have the only MMO with a Server based in Australia. So low Latency. Not like WoW and the rest which have Alantic Servers, which are based over in the USA.

People would love to play a MMO with Low latency, and you could have the market but no one Knows..

 

So Adverstise, get the word out so the APAC/Oceanic servers dont die

[ChuangTzu]

why can we not xfer to different server types?.. I already rerolled on harby once Master D was pretty much dead.. would like to bring my toons all together.. since there is no real world pvp anyway it doesn't bother me as it once did.

 

You can choose which server you go to. Which makes me annoyed that we can't have transfers to Dalborra as their main argument was that in their opinion ppl did not want to change server types. And now they are allowing transfers to different server types?!?!

[Master_Reuben]

The Biggest Fail, EA have done... IS there is NO ADVERTISING in Australia for this game... What sort of bussiness model are you running..

Seriously, there is such a market here, but no one knows.. You have the only MMO with a Server based in Australia. So low Latency. Not like WoW and the rest which have Alantic Servers, which are based over in the USA.

People would love to play a MMO with Low latency, and you could have the market but no one Knows..

 

So Adverstise, get the word out so the APAC/Oceanic servers dont die

 

So true. Possibly the most expensive development cycle in gaming and they didn't bother to advertise at all over here. Such a shame considering this game has lower latency for us than any other MMO out there.

[LeeTone]

You can choose which server you go to. Which makes me annoyed that we can't have transfers to Dalborra as their main argument was that in their opinion ppl did not want to change server types. And now they are allowing transfers to different server types?!?!

 

Somehow I don't think that server type was the driving factor behind the decision.

[ChuangTzu]

Somehow I don't think that server type was the driving factor behind the decision.

 

I know that but they claimed it was.

[Venight]

There are some very important differences between pvp and pve servers that go far beyond the simple choice of do I turn on my pvp flag or not. The general behavior and ethics of what you may and may not do in each of these environs, while subtle, are very real. Merging different types of servers is a far worse situation then I've seen most people here express. In the end the predominant play style of a server will be preserved while driving out those who prefer the other environments.

 

Next (and please don't think that I'm talking down to anyone as that's not my intention at all), the thing to realize is that the term "lag" is generally used to describe a catch all for any delay a player experiences. However there are three very distinct areas where "lag" can and does occur.

 

First and most obvious is local computer lag, I.E. there is either a hardware insufficiency, or a software overload, that overburdens the local computer system or network. And that network can be either in your home, for example Aunt Cindy deciding to download a large file with out your knowledge, or on the overall neighborhood network that may at any given time simply become overloaded and reach it's service capacity.

 

Secondly and this is where most people look to see what their "lag" is at any given moment, is the listed latency. This number is a bit more complex then I think most people realize. First off it is an average of samples taken over some time frame. Secondly it is only a measure of the time it takes for a "ping" packet to reach the game server gateway and receive a response in return. This test does not reflect, or at most minimally reflects the effects of the first or third points on "lag".

 

Third and this is also a very important point is lag that happens on the game servers themselves. Some times it can occur in a single subsystem such as lets say the "Loot server" Where you see delays in the generation of drops. Other times multiple systems can become unstable and cause all sorts of issues for player despite the reported latency remaining very low.

 

Problems in any one of these areas will cause players to complain of "lag". But remember with so many divergent computer systems running concurrently all to provide a single overall experience for the customer. It means that in each area the amount of "lag" experienced is not only additive, but often times multiplicative due to the nature of how networking functions.

 

I live very close to the harbinger servers with a normal latency test running around 23 ms. I also play on dalborra with an average latency of 150 ms to 180 ms. Both in pve and pvp response times feel about the same. There is a barely perceptible difference. But yes it is there. Is it enough to ruin my play experience. No not at all. Do I feel at all like I'm at a disadvantage in pvp? Really not that I've seen at all. My win/loss ratios remain consistant when compared between the two servers. I do notice that I tend to lead my timers a bit more while playing on dalborra vrs harbinger but again it's barely perceivable and happens on an unconscious level. Yes some minor adjustments will have to occur while playing. But since when is playing a warzone a static experience?

 

So in closing let me just say that if and when we do merge into the N.A. servers, and yes I support this move, it's not going to be the end of the world for anyone. Honestly I'm looking forward to seeing all my SWtor friends together in a single environment. If, however, you were already looking for a reason to leave, then this will probably give you your excuse. But honestly if that is what you're looking for then......well let me put it this way "When a man is convinced he will die today, he'll usually find a way to make it happen."

 

Well see you in game soon I hope.

[Roalmo]

You can choose which server you go to....!

 

When did they change this and do you have a link?

 

Last I saw we were being transferred to specific servers from specific servers i.e. Dalborra could ONLY go to Harbinger.

[davidwaterfield]

Tick for merging all 3 to a super server........

[davidwaterfield]

I would rather have longer wait times than play with lag, its alright for you guys to say yeah put them on american servers , because your probably american and wont have the same problems, so from what I hear in game a lot of people will leave the game if you make that decision.

Why pay for a laggy horrible experience when I could easily go back to wow for the same thing.

[Wraithbourne]

When did they change this and do you have a link?

 

Last I saw we were being transferred to specific servers from specific servers i.e. Dalborra could ONLY go to Harbinger.

 

Back on page 426

[Roalmo]

Back on page 426

 

AH_HA!!

 

thanks for the info.. missed that puppy.

[Zimith]

Please don't merge our servers! The game will be unplayable, The ping will be too high! Please rethink this!

[odonoghuet]

Venight, thanks for your well thought out opinions, but several of them have been addressed repeatedly in this thread. More specifically:

 

PVP server v PVP flag.

 

If there is a difference in the culture of the server I have yet to see it. I played on the Crucible Pits (PVP) from early release to the opening of APAC, and I saw a wide range of play styles, none of which I didn't see on Gav Daragon (PVE-RP). I have been ganked on both, I have ganked on both. I have hunted and been hunted on both. I've roleplayed on both. I have been stunned by PVPers while in the middle of an ops group hunting a world boss on both servers. And I fought way better PVP players in competitive warzones on both. The flag is just another rule but I have never seen it stop anyone wanting to play the way they want.

 

The only difference I have ever heard of between the two was in first release where while the poles showed neck and neck for people wanting to play Republic or Empire, the split was dramatically different with PVE players wanting the former and the PVPers the latter, but now much later over time that has been more balanced across servers. If anything communities are more responsible for play style than server type, and we are losing our communities in this action.

 

Lag Types.

 

Type 1 lag at home. Anyone who knows enough to understand lag can actually work out if they are in a bad area (how quick does youtube load?) or if they can do anything to make it better. Can realistically happen anywhere and is not Bioware's fault.

 

Type 2 lag between home and server. As a general rule this is purely the location of the server, and even under general use doesn't add a lot. Part of the issue however is the latency ping is almost purely this. But it does add and Bioware are choosing to increase that lag by doing this.

 

Type 3 lag, in the server hardware. This one is entirely on Bioware as the company in charge of arranging this hardware. By all accounts, the West coast server Harbringer is where they want most of us to go, has repeatedly shown to be insufficient to the current player load, and so will increase lag in this stage, even ignoring how often it is full and from what I have heard has had more roll-backs than any other server.

 

The most valid point you make here is that 1 and 3 can add to the problem of 2, so really stating your average latency (which in itself is an average of ping) is far from the only factor here. You are correct there is more going on here than just that Bioware are adding 150+ latency to tall of us, which in itself isn't the end of any possible competitiveness in the game.

 

Bioware made the game to a standard to make it playable by average or even low graphics systems.

 

They did not however make it a smooth playing experience on low end systems with intercontinental latency on over populated servers. They did not make it playable to a competitive level on top end systems with intercontinental latency on over populated servers. They then release NiM Content that has high reflex and timing requirements.

 

My personal experience is that of the reflexes of a middle aged man, on an average PC with a latency to GD of 150ms. I struggle to pull my weight on some HM OPS. One of the things I had to do was increase the queue time in preferences from when I can trigger an ability from 0.5 seconds to 1 second before next CD. That gave me the window to fight the lag problem I have now while the servers are in APAC and not regularly so full they have log in queues.

 

This showed a measurable effect on my DPS on the training dummy because the SWTOR combat system is not optimised to handle poor latency, especially with the new alacrity changes. Now I literally have to be careful to not lock myself into triggering an ability twice by accident. The change to the servers in the US will not hurt me too bad because I am not that competitive now, but it will cut me from any hope of NiM progression team possibilities because I cannot keep up with the rest of the OP and pull my weight.

 

For those you dismiss as this not being the end of the world, these are people who have spent hours research their roles and rotations, practising and learning key binds, and repeatedly running FPs and easier OPs to get the best gear, all of this is REQUIRED to participate in the hardest content of the game. Now you dismiss their problems because you don't experience them, and ask them to continue to PAY for this hobby at an inferior quality of play that will likely deny them the highest difficulty of content of the game.

 

tl;dr

 

So in closing let me just say that if and when we do merge into the N.A. servers, and yes I support this move, it's not going to be the end of the world for anyone.

 

It isn't the end of anyone’s world, certainly not for you who argue how you will suffer nothing, but it will be the end of an Old Republic world for some players who don't want to pay for the privilage to work hard for a hobby they are arbitrarily given a slower, less smooth gaming experience on with content they are denied because Bioware didn't value those customers.

Edited April 16, 2013 by odonoghuet

[Massamo]

I wanted to give an update on some things and answer some questions we have seen in the thread. First, one of the things we have seen multiple people suggest is that if we are going to merge the APAC servers into the NA West servers that we should give you the option to choose which NA West server you transfer to. Knowing that some APAC players have existing characters and Legacies on some NA West servers already, we agree. When we open free transfers we will allow you one time transfer from your current APAC server to any one of the NA West servers. Note: The actual server merges themselves will still happen based on server type, so once we open transfers make sure you move all of your characters to the server you want before the merge happens.

 

We have also seen some concerns that we “haven’t considered what NA West’s populations are at offpeak times.” Actually, this is part of the reason we are making the decision to move APAC into NA West. Currently the equivalent NA West servers are seeing higher populations at offpeak times than their APAC counterparts. Meaning that even during offpeak NA times, the APAC players should see an increase in population after the transfers/merges.

 

-eric

 

 

i play on NA EAST server now so we can't pick from them im guessing "The Shadowlands"

[Macropodmum]

 

For those you dismiss as this not being the end of the world, these are people who have spent hours research their roles and rotations, practising and learning key binds, and repeatedly running FPs and easier OPs to get the best gear, all of this is REQUIRED to participate in the hardest content of the game. Now you dismiss their problems because you don't experience them, and ask them to continue to PAY for this hobby at an inferior quality of play that will likely deny them the highest difficulty of content of the game.

 

tl;dr

 

It isn't the end of anyone’s world, certainly not for you who argue how you will suffer nothing, but it will be the end of an Old Republic world for some players who don't want to pay for the privilage to work hard for a hobby they are arbitrarily given a slower, less smooth gaming experience on with content they are denied because Bioware didn't value those customers.

 

^ This

[ChuangTzu]

There are some very important differences between pvp and pve servers that go far beyond the simple choice of do I turn on my pvp flag or not. The general behavior and ethics of what you may and may not do in each of these environs, while subtle, are very real. Merging different types of servers is a far worse situation then I've seen most people here express. In the end the predominant play style of a server will be preserved while driving out those who prefer the other environments.

 

Next (and please don't think that I'm talking down to anyone as that's not my intention at all), the thing to realize is that the term "lag" is generally used to describe a catch all for any delay a player experiences. However there are three very distinct areas where "lag" can and does occur.

 

First and most obvious is local computer lag, I.E. there is either a hardware insufficiency, or a software overload, that overburdens the local computer system or network. And that network can be either in your home, for example Aunt Cindy deciding to download a large file with out your knowledge, or on the overall neighborhood network that may at any given time simply become overloaded and reach it's service capacity.

 

Secondly and this is where most people look to see what their "lag" is at any given moment, is the listed latency. This number is a bit more complex then I think most people realize. First off it is an average of samples taken over some time frame. Secondly it is only a measure of the time it takes for a "ping" packet to reach the game server gateway and receive a response in return. This test does not reflect, or at most minimally reflects the effects of the first or third points on "lag".

 

Third and this is also a very important point is lag that happens on the game servers themselves. Some times it can occur in a single subsystem such as lets say the "Loot server" Where you see delays in the generation of drops. Other times multiple systems can become unstable and cause all sorts of issues for player despite the reported latency remaining very low.

 

Problems in any one of these areas will cause players to complain of "lag". But remember with so many divergent computer systems running concurrently all to provide a single overall experience for the customer. It means that in each area the amount of "lag" experienced is not only additive, but often times multiplicative due to the nature of how networking functions.

 

I live very close to the harbinger servers with a normal latency test running around 23 ms. I also play on dalborra with an average latency of 150 ms to 180 ms. Both in pve and pvp response times feel about the same. There is a barely perceptible difference. But yes it is there. Is it enough to ruin my play experience. No not at all. Do I feel at all like I'm at a disadvantage in pvp? Really not that I've seen at all. My win/loss ratios remain consistant when compared between the two servers. I do notice that I tend to lead my timers a bit more while playing on dalborra vrs harbinger but again it's barely perceivable and happens on an unconscious level. Yes some minor adjustments will have to occur while playing. But since when is playing a warzone a static experience?

 

So in closing let me just say that if and when we do merge into the N.A. servers, and yes I support this move, it's not going to be the end of the world for anyone. Honestly I'm looking forward to seeing all my SWtor friends together in a single environment. If, however, you were already looking for a reason to leave, then this will probably give you your excuse. But honestly if that is what you're looking for then......well let me put it this way "When a man is convinced he will die today, he'll usually find a way to make it happen."

 

Well see you in game soon I hope.

 

Tl:dr

 

The lag is most certainly noticable, I have toons on the Harbinger as well and the experience running HM FPs is noticable and makes the experience worse. There is also another factor that makes things worse and that's the culture on the Harbinger, it is toxic. Lag or no lag I don't want to be forced to play there. We have a great little community on Dalborra and I don't want to loose that.

[Elysiah]

QQ

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[AthlasReaver]

Hi i am just wondering weather i am gonna loose my achievements that i have attained due to the merge

[XXFEZXX]

Just a qik Question

 

Why am i getting lag on the new Content ....... you guys at bio trying to get me ready for the future.

 

Note When I say Lag I mean LAG

 

And dont tell me its on my end

I got full rig with a TITAN doing the paddling

Edited April 17, 2013 by XXFEZXX

[ChuangTzu]

Just a qik Question

 

Why am i getting lag on the new Content ....... you guys at bio trying to get me ready for the future.

 

Note When I say Lag I mean LAG

 

And dont tell me its on my end

I got full rig with a TITAN doing the paddling

 

It's not just you I have heard many ppl complaining of the same thing. I have also had some trouble with it myself. I agree that they are preparing us for the merge.

 

Also 933 signatures on the petition.

Edited April 17, 2013 by ChuangTzu

[DiamondDove]

Everyone I chat with has been getting a lot more lag spikes on Dalborra since RoTHC rolled out, although the general latency seems OK. The issue seems worst when you are on Makeb.

 

Even in PvE missions frequent spikes where you 'freeze' can be deadly, let alone in FP or op boss fights. If Bioware could assure no lag spikes over the Harbinger, I think the APAC population would feel better about the lag issues. A steady 180-220 ms seems playable in PvE, as you can anticipate moves a fraction of a second earlier. Lag spikes, or lag much slower than 280 ms makes it much less playable. Being attacked by enemies you can't yet see is always an interesting experience - especially if you can't target them.

 

Lets all enjoy Dalborra for as long as it lasts !!

[Jonnara]

Everyone I chat with has been getting a lot more lag spikes on Dalborra since RoTHC rolled out, although the general latency seems OK. The issue seems worst when you are on Makeb.

 

Even in PvE missions frequent spikes where you 'freeze' can be deadly, let alone in FP or op boss fights. If Bioware could assure no lag spikes over the Harbinger, I think the APAC population would feel better about the lag issues. A steady 180-220 ms seems playable in PvE, as you can anticipate moves a fraction of a second earlier. Lag spikes, or lag much slower than 280 ms makes it much less playable. Being attacked by enemies you can't yet see is always an interesting experience - especially if you can't target them.

 

Lets all enjoy Dalborra for as long as it lasts !!

 

The lag or freeze doesn't appear to be latency related when i am on harbinger server, looks like the 2.0 patch broke the global cool down fix from 1.2(around that time not sure which patch).

 

So combat is now really clunky.

[Dark_Cole]

Has anyone asked whether we get a discount on our subs now (waits for laughter to subside)? As it currently stands (and please correct me if I'm using wrong info) Australian and other corresponding territories are paying close to $US17 per month whereas the US is Paying $US15.

 

Since we no longer have our own, probably more expensive servers, to pay for we should be paying the same amount as our American brethren correct? I'd like to hear the rationale behind us paying more for an (even marginally) inferior product. This should/would also be a stepping stone in placating people, myself included, who feel a bit slighted on the APAC servers due to the upcoming mergers.

[KaosBlader]

No reply since page 426 or something... Anybody read/heard anything on when this *fantastic* merger will be happening? Edited April 18, 2013 by KaosBlader

[XXFEZXX]

Been playing this game for a long time now and never I say NEVER have i seen my Latency reach 35 - 40ms..

It seems I spike to these figures and den return to my normal 11 - 15 ms when standing stationary....

Often my casts have to be repeated cos it won't register. Almost identical to my experience on Bastion hmmmm:eek: