A Tale of Two Games: ToR and WoW - Review!

[deusBAAL]

The OP forgets to realize that WOW is a toon grafic kids game and the McDonalds of the MMORPG (cheap stuff for the masses)

And describing WOW as paramount is a disqualifier in itself.

 

 

Granted, the SWTOR UI, being static, sucks.

 

The companion AI is way underdelivered... after all the hype BW made about companion skills I expected them to work as in Dragon Age. (With situational switches when the companion uses a skill) Right now the skills just have a on/off switch, which is nothing else but the autocast on/off for pets like in any other game.

[Marmerus]

Horrible analogy. I don't even know where to begin...

 

The Ford Model T is not getting upgrades every 6 months to make it new and appealing. It's a physical, static object. You can't cram 30% more car into every 6 months to make it a better car. You can wash it, drive it, and make it look pretty with some chrome here and there... But in the end. IT'S A CAR.

 

An MMO is a game, something meant to be played in digital space. It's digital content that grows and expands over time. The more time put into the game, the more content. When a game is new, it has had LESS time to add all of the content that would be in another MMO that has been around for 7 years.

 

WoW level cap is so much higher that SWTOR. It's glaringly obvious that WoW would have more content. Holy crap, I can't believe anyone would every try and use CARS and MMO's in the same analogy. I am at a loss for words.

So what you are saying is that nobody should get SWTOR until its 7 years old?

[Garandhero]

The comparison is warranted because a) they are both MMORPGs and b) Bioware/EA explicitly asserted that they are going after the prime competitor (WoW).

 

Guy boasts about playing cs:s and being in WOw guilds...bro no one cares, you are irrelevant, your review was boring and heavily biased, no one is impressed, and do you put that info on your job resumes or mention it when you talk to girls. Rofl.....

PS. The sooner you quit, go back down in your mom's basement and play wow the better. K thanks bye.

[Blamminator]

SWTOR out: 2 days now

WOW: 7 years

 

Did you play WoW when it first came out? PVP, player mods and all that stuff was awesome!!!

 

Oh wait... there was none of that!

 

Remember when WoW came out with companions, a crafting system that was interesting and a STORYLINE!

 

Oh wait... they is still none of that...

[Narzeja]

But that's not all white damage does. It also provides a steadily dripping resource (ex: rage) that can be used freely. It's also off the GCD, which makes rotations more reliable.

 

Yes, in wow it provides that resource and serves a well defined purpose, but you are ignoring that 1) this is not wow and 2) the tor combat system is not designed to utilize white damage making it a pointless niche mechanic to request. Having full control of every single damage you deal is in my opinion preferable than relying on odd mechanics that in its most basic form is superfluous. The notion of having the system fight for you could easily be considered an insult. Introducing white damage will not help us in any way other than your character will fight a little by itself.

[Atalarin]

Many others have said this, but World of WARcraft was released without any pvp. Then they added Warsong Gulch. I remember being in a queue for something like 170 minutes for a match that lasted forever. Then they added a host of improvements - weakened flag carriers, time limits, cross-relam queues. (Most of which should have been obvious, but Blizzard has always adopted a very arrogant, imperious attitude towards its customers.)

 

Huttball, by way of comparison, is in the game at launch. Wait time is minimal. Game time is capped. There may be issues with it, but I find it fast and fun. Better, I don't feel overmatched ay any particular class. The OP complains about stealth, but stealthing classes have been hugely overpowered in pvp for significant portions of WoW's existance. Blizzard finally realized that cloth-wearers didn't enjoy being killed while stunned, so they added trinkets. Incremental improvement. To the extent TOR has problems, they'll be fixed.

[dvvx]

The best part is, hidden deep within this carefully constructed post, is the OP stating that he is still playing because he can't wait to see the end game Operations.

 

I love the internet.

 

So you're saying my review is objective and not biased? That's crazy!

 

I think ToR has good AND bad parts, the bad just far outweigh the good right now.

Edited December 21, 2011 by dvvx

[dvvx]

SWTOR out: 2 days now

WOW: 7 years

 

Did you play WoW when it first came out? PVP, player mods and all that stuff was awesome!!!

 

Oh wait... there was none of that!

 

You're right about PvP, but there were many mods from the beta period that you could use on day 1. I'm all up for critiquing various games, but straight-up misinformation doesn't help anyone.

[kennn]

funny how some of these people brag about playing 10+ games, but all of the games they have played have pretty much failed after a year, maybe even a few months.

[dvvx]

funny how some of these people brag about playing 10+ games, but all of the games they have played have pretty much failed after a year, maybe even a few months.

 

True. Some terrible games even survive (i.e. Warhammer), lol.

[LoogaSlight]

This thread will be buried before weeks end and no one will care to remember what this "Counter Strike professional 1337 gamer" even said. I know I won’t lose any sleep or gaming hours over this malarkey.

 

Well looks like this guy wont be called on to predict anything in his unknown future this thread has gone on long past his due date.

 

His prediction is on page 7 of 57 so far.

Edited December 22, 2011 by LoogaSlight

[LuthirFontaine]

So you're saying my review is objective and not biased? That's crazy!

 

I think ToR has good AND bad parts, the bad just far outweigh the good right now.

 

Time to mosey along then...unless you just like these forums...

[dvvx]

Time to mosey along then...unless you just like these forums...

 

I do like these forums. Considering I've been around since 2009.

[KiznaCat]

Second of all, Pong was meant to show the slippery slope you're arguing. A more appropriate example would be UO. Should we compare ToR to UO? Of course not, UO was launched in 1999. Could we compare ToR to some MUDs from the mid-90s? Again, that's just silly.

 

UO was released in 1997.

 

Also, your Car analogy doesn't mean anything. Cause simple:

 

Mercedes had ABS in the 70s already, and many many other features. Which other cars only received in the 80s and 90s. Therefore apparently all other Companies that did build cars failed. And shouldn't be around anymore. Cause they simply came years to late, with features that already were available in the 70s.

 

Was not just like that with ABS, a lot of innovativ things in Cars came from Mercedes, and have been 10 - 20 years earlier in Mercedes Cars then in other cars.

 

 

 

Anyway: ToR is just new, and BW is working on a lot of features and content in the background. Just like Blizzard did when WoW released, cause they simply had to. Can't make a MMO without development going on after release.

[dvvx]

UO was released in 1997.

 

Also, your Car analogy doesn't mean anything. Cause simple:

 

Mercedes had ABS in the 70s already, and many many other features. Which other cars only received in the 80s and 90s. Therefore apparently all other Companies that did build cars failed. And shouldn't be around anymore. Cause they simply came years to late, with features that already were available in the 70s.

 

Was not just like that with ABS, a lot of innovativ things in Cars came from Mercedes, and have been 10 - 20 years earlier in Mercedes Cars then in other cars.

 

 

 

Anyway: ToR is just new, and BW is working on a lot of features and content in the background. Just like Blizzard did when WoW released, cause they simply had to. Can't make a MMO without development going on after release.

 

ABS was a luxury in the 1970s. A moddable UI was a luxury in 2004. It's 2012 now. It's no longer a luxury. It's 2012 now, ABS is no longer a luxury.

 

ToR is the equivalent of a Geo Metro and WoW is the equivalent of Mercedes. Is that what you're trying to say?

Edited December 22, 2011 by dvvx

[KiznaCat]

WoW hardly can represent Mercedes. I can't really think of any innovation in it.

 

 

ToR would me more like Mercedes though, cause it got at least some inovation. Like advanced pets (Companions).

 

I still wouldn't compare ToR with a Mercedes though.

[SoggyHotDog]

How much of you day did you waste writing this "review"?

[The_Archon]

57 pages! Successful troll is successful.

[Bigaus]

not sure if OP is serial.

[djsmileey]

Lol... No-one who matters or cares EVER reads through 57 pages of nonsense to determine whether or not he likes a game.

 

This thread is still pointless.

 

I'm happy you guys voiced your opinion, but you gotta stop deluding yourself into believing you actually have influence on anyone's decisions.

 

It's just 20-50 trolls all high-fiving each other and slappin' asses thinking they are bringing down the game. The ones who care are only themselves, everyone else is in game enjoying themselves.

 

GL and have fun trolling for a living.

 

Have fun with your Occupy Star Wars Forums movement.

[Waypoc]

It was the best of times, it was the worst of times. For ToR, unfortunately, mostly the worst. This isn't my first review - I reviewed the game during the beta several times, but I was shunned by incredulous and overzealous fans. After all, it was "just" a beta. Well here we are, at the dawn of release - no longer in the beta. So where does this game stand in the grand scheme of things? How does it compare to WoW, SWG, Rift, GW2? Lets find out.

 

Who am I? I'm some dude that led a top-US CS:S team for many years, was a part of two top-10 WoW guilds, and played in several WoW Arena Tournies (including the CGS invitational) and many many CS tournaments, including the CPL. I also had a stint working for an indie game developer several years ago. I like to think that I know what I'm talking about, and usually, I do.

 

Story

Story. Story. Story. We've heard it over and over again. Bioware has really hammered this home - much how Vincent Chase is Queens Boulevard, The Old Republic is story. And story is one of the few battles ToR wins. The voice over quality is top notch and primary class quests are mostly interesting and engaging. Some may be deterred by the incessant use of family drama as a plot device since it gets old pretty fast. With that said, don't expect Chaucer, but the writing is sufficient.

 

Unfortunately, the side quests are problematic and suffer from trivial subject matters ("blah blah click some turrets") or endless fetch questing (go to X, come back to Y, go to X again, now back to Y). This wouldn't have been a problem 10 years ago, but 2012 is almost here. WoW has moved us past the trivialities of fetch questing and now we do cool stuff like lassoing dragons, bombing runs or mind-controlling giants. ToR pretends like there hasn't been an entire generation of MMORPGs since KOTOR and suffers for it greatly. Bonus quests are an interesting touch, but more often than not, they insult the player. Here you are doing the most trivial of tasks (ex: clicking control panels - a Bioware favorite) and a bonus quest pops up that asks you to kill 30 of the same type of mob. And just like that, we're all sent back to the late 90s. Bioware has a lot to learn from Jeff Kaplan.

 

On many levels, however, the VO is a technical achievement. Ordinarily, I'd have no problem with pouring so much money into something like voice over, but the gameplay significantly suffered from it. To me, that's unforgivable.

 

Combat

The crux of a good MMORPG is solid combat. I expect combat to be fluid, responsive, and logical. ToR has a pretty good grasp of what it wants to do, but doesn't quite reach the bar set by better MMOs. First of all, the "heroic" combat Bioware preached for years and years isn't as heroic as they made it out to be. Animations are often choppy and blocking animations seem to happen at random times (as opposed to having weapons make contact). But lets face it, it's not a big deal. What is a big deal, however, is the lack of an auto-attack.

 

This quizzical gameplay choice hurts more than it helps. It means that the gamer needs to manually press 1-1-1-1-1 (or right-click like a madman) to use the regular "white attack" ability and to generate resources that one may use (in the case of the Warrior-archetypes). Not only is this boring, but it literally provides zero gameplay improvement - what is the reasoning behind no auto-attack? Who knows.

 

Stealth and cover are very underwhelming. Cover, in particular, is nigh worthless in PvP. The conical radius, the spent GCD, the fact that 4 classes can easily close range, and the fact that almost every class has a knock-back should be very clear indicators that a mechanic like cover is a terrible, terrible idea.

 

Stealth, as mentioned, is very odd. On one hand, it tries to mimic what stealth is in WoW (a fundamental mechanic of classes like rogues and feral druids), while more often than not it becomes merely a trivial escape mechanism. It needs to be fundamentally reworked - stealth should be a game mechanic, not a novelty.

 

PvE and Leveling

Admittedly, a high point of the game are the instances (known as flashpoints). Black Talon, Athiss, Hammer Station, etc. are all fairly well-designed. Mechanics are tried and true: get out of the fire, interrupt heals, kite bad stuff. This is where ToR really does feel like "WoW in space" and it's also arguably the best part of the game. As a matter of fact, the only reason I'm still playing is because I'm curious to see if the large-scale Operations will be as good as Flashpoints.

 

Leveling is fairly smooth, but the fact that the world is sharded can be distracting and does discourage grouping. Heroic 2+ man quests can be fun, but I found myself skipping them more often than not - the time invested doesn't seem worth it. During hardcore leveling periods, I also found myself skipping all VO. I don't care about your life story, I just want to get this quest out of the way. I feel somewhat guilty about it, but these are the scenarios that make me feel like side-quest VO is a swing and a miss - a very expensive miss.

 

PvP

PvP is a joke, there's not much more to say. It's an insult to any form of competitive activity. Huttball is one of the worst ideas I've ever seen implemented in an MMO: Warsong Gulch with a passable flag? Really? What irks me most is that someone actually made money coming up with such a terrible idea. Inconsistent traps, obnoxious commentators, bad layout, Huttball has it all. There are 15-year-olds that designed better Unreal Tournament maps. Sure, there may be some occasional mindless fun to be had with Huttball, but there's no real value here.

 

Alderaan is significantly better, but doesn't even compare to the wide variety of BGs present in MMOs like WoW or Rift. Ignoring WoW's trailblazing here, Rift's "Black Garden" was a particularly awesome innovation. World PvP is more or less nonexistent.

 

If ToR was Communist Russia, PvP would be human rights.

 

Companions

Companions were lauded by Bioware as being an evolutionary step as far as the genre is concerned. Unfortunately, they turned out to be glorified pets. They even have an ability pet bar just like in WoW! Some companions are interesting, some are boring. They do seem to break up the monotony of the often morose landscapes, but they are basically just pets.

 

Companion crafting is a great idea, however. Not having to worry about crafting stuff yourself is pretty neat. ToR sometimes surprises you with interesting and progressive innovations. Unfortunately, these moments are far and few in between.

 

DOA

Does The Old Republic have a chance? Not with what we see on day 1. No chance. Fanboys and fangirls may try to make a case for ToR, but the reality is that there is no case for ToR. There are many changes that need to make their way into ToR for it to be a competitor to 2nd tier MMOs, let alone giants like WoW.

 

UI mods have been requested since beta. A combat log has been requested since beta. There are absolutely no features that even begin to address the social element of the game: guild achievements, guild skill trees, etc. There's a need for competitive PvP, LFG finders, etc, etc. These shouldn't be post-release patches, this is 2012! These are basic elements of modern MMORPGs. I don' think ToR is finished.

 

The only reason ToR won't die in 6 months is "Bioware" and "Star Wars." Will these two names carry the burden for a year? Two? I doubt it. But then again, I could be wrong. http://warhammeronline.com/ is still going. Don't fool yourself though. It's dead.

 

You may berate me now, but don't forget this review 1 year down the line. ToR is dead. Long live Titan?

 

Well said and written. Could not agree more.

[Damondread]

The comparison is warranted because a) they are both MMORPGs and b) Bioware/EA explicitly asserted that they are going after the prime competitor (WoW).

 

Compare WoW to it's original vanilla state when it release in 2004 and compare it to SWTOR which just released and I would have to say SWTOR is off to a very strong start. To the OP your concerns in the review are justified only in how you are comparing polished products with years to grow to a new product that just hit the market. In that my friend is where your review faulters. Your expecations of a new product to offer every single feature of a polished products is just unreasonable. Yes SWTOR is not finished it's an MMO which will continue to evolve plain and simple. Best way to look at it from this day forth it's up to Bioware/EA to make sure the game is on the up and up with features and fixes for years to come and with time it will offer refined if not better features of what current generation MMO's are offering that have been established.

[Nauticas]

The OP seems like someone who is just trying to get some attention. He has a fundamental flaw of making several comparisons to a game (WoW) that has been in over 6 years of post-launch development.

 

If you want to make a fair comparison then you should compare ToR to WoW at launch. More than likely the OP didn't play WoW until a few years after launch. WoW didn't have battlegrounds, an honor system, arenas, or many other features at launch that the game has now.

 

The other point that loss my credibility for the OP was making WoW sound like the best PvP MMO. WoW was not a PvP MMO on day 1 and actually took it a good 2 to 3 years before PvP became a main focus of the game.

 

Now, in a year from now, you are more than welcome to compare the two games to their "at the time" status.

[Lucian-Ra]

Coming from someone who played WoW since day 1 until Wotlk you have no idea what you are talking about dude. WoW was about as bland as a can of campbells chicken noodle soup until they started adding in the pvp system. You really have no idea.

[Marmerus]

If you want to make a fair comparison then you should compare ToR to WoW at launch.

Why? SWTOR has to compete against WoW and all the other MMOs out there in its current state. So what you are basically saying is that everyone should leave SWTOR and play WoW for 7 years before returning just so you can compare SWTOR in 7 years with todays WoW.

 

So that sentence is more than just stupid. It just shows you have no clue at all what you are talking about.