Baarabas Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 One can plainly see that BW is trying to nerf PT Pyro by pulling back some of their functionality to 10m. Justifying this is the argument that PT was meant to be more of a melee class. Got it. But why nerf Merc in the process?!! This makes no sense. Merc and Commando are RANGED!!!!!! Why are you pulling them in to 10m? Do you want them to be melee? Did you think they needed another nerf? Did you not listen to your community when they tell you that Merc/Commando are the worst PvP class? Please don't say because the skills are shared. You did it with TD. You've done it with other skills. Is it a time saver? Ranged classes need to keep players at range. We can barely do this in 1.3, let alone after what you will do in 1.4. Merc and Commando need buffs not nerfs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DashaAdair Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 I see the battlefield broken into four range bands: Approach Zone-The area outside the range of any weapon. Primarily affected by movement enhancement and stealth. Contact Zone-From 30-10m (longer for gunslingers/snipers). Close Assault Zone-From 10-4m Melee Zone-4m and less. I think it is inadvertent, but the designers have pulled too much of the fight into the 10m Close Assault and Melee Zones. I think only gunslingers/snipers have the full range of attack and crowd control options in the 30-10m zone. I think the same justification for gunslingers/snipers operating in the 30-10m zone should apply to commando/mercenaries. Commandos/mercenaries and gunslingers/snipers are the base of fire to set up an assault, that should include the full range of crowd control solutions. The close assault/melee types have the movement effect tools to effectively close range through that zone to allow them to use their best assault tools. This artificial compression of the battlespace should not continue. Right now the vast majority of the CC appears to be concentrated in the 0-10m range bands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heechJunzi Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 (edited) What I want to know is, why did Bioware engineers come to my house and kick my cat!? Why!? Oh.. They didn't? Then maybe they didn't nerf merc range to 10m either. Maybe the range nerf is only to powertech. Edited September 13, 2012 by heechJunzi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaoskyx Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 This is so sad it's funny. I mean, they could at least have balanced it out by giving us a reliable way to apply the snare, but nooooo... Besides, the nerf to the snare for Assault Vanguards doesn't make much sense, anyway; they're forcing the spec to stay within 10 meters of their target, but with a weak, short duration snare, a pull on a long cooldown, and no effective means of removing/bypassing movement-impairing effects on themselves, they're going to be fairly easy to avoid. Perhaps not so much for dps commandos, but I can see healers kiting them to oblivion. ^From the Commando subforum. I can't even fathom why the developers think a ranged class shouldn't get a ranged stun, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bunnyhuntr Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 I can't see the nerf on Merc's... where is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishtim Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 What nerf? there is no range nerf to mercs/commandos Did you actually read the patch noted or did you just decide to make up stuff and QQ about it on the forums Just in case you didn't see these are the patch notes for merc Mercenary Due to changes in the Mercenary skill trees, all Mercenaries have had their skill points refunded. Disabling Shot is a new ability that interrupts the target's current action and prevents that ability from being used for the next 4 seconds. Arsenal Afterburners: Rocket Punch now immobilizes the target for 4 seconds instead of knocking it back. Pinning Fire: This ability's snare has been increased to 70%. Tracer Lock: Each stack of Tracer Lock now additionally reduces the activation time of your next Healing Scan by 20% per stack. Bodyguard Kolto Residue now additionally snares enemies struck by your Kolto Missile by 50% for 3 seconds. Warden is now a 3-point skill with the same overall effect. Peacekeeper is a new 2-point skill. While protected by your own Kolto Shell, firing Rapid Shots at an enemy now triggers your Kolto Shell (this can only happen once every 3 seconds). This does not trigger if your health is full. Pyrotech (Mercenary) Sweltering Heat's snare has been reduced to 30%. See?? no nerf to range whatsoever. L2read Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaoskyx Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 What nerf? there is no range nerf to mercs/commandos Did you actually read the patch noted or did you just decide to make up stuff and QQ about it on the forums Just in case you didn't see these are the patch notes for merc Mercenary Due to changes in the Mercenary skill trees, all Mercenaries have had their skill points refunded. Disabling Shot is a new ability that interrupts the target's current action and prevents that ability from being used for the next 4 seconds. Arsenal Afterburners: Rocket Punch now immobilizes the target for 4 seconds instead of knocking it back. Pinning Fire: This ability's snare has been increased to 70%. Tracer Lock: Each stack of Tracer Lock now additionally reduces the activation time of your next Healing Scan by 20% per stack. Bodyguard Kolto Residue now additionally snares enemies struck by your Kolto Missile by 50% for 3 seconds. Warden is now a 3-point skill with the same overall effect. Peacekeeper is a new 2-point skill. While protected by your own Kolto Shell, firing Rapid Shots at an enemy now triggers your Kolto Shell (this can only happen once every 3 seconds). This does not trigger if your health is full. Pyrotech (Mercenary) Sweltering Heat's snare has been reduced to 30%. See?? no nerf to range whatsoever. L2read Well, to be fair, there is the Cryo Grenade/Electro-Dart range nerf that I'm pretty upset about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishtim Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Well, to be fair, there is the Cryo Grenade/Electro-Dart range nerf that I'm pretty upset about. But most of the time for mercs electro-dart is used as a 'you stay here i'm going to run away' ability so since the role of the merc is to stay out of the center of the fight and damage from the sides it will have very little affect on most users Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DashaAdair Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 But most of the time for mercs electro-dart is used as a 'you stay here i'm going to run away' ability so since the role of the merc is to stay out of the center of the fight and damage from the sides it will have very little affect on most users I don't do this and would not recommend it. It's better/more effective/more efficient to hold them at range before they close and continue firing. If you freeze and scoot you lower your damage output. CC for commandos/mercenaries should generally revolve around holding or pushing them away so you can, as often as possible, continue to engage the enemy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umamma Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Pyrotech (Mercenary) Sweltering Heat's snare has been reduced to 30%. The point should be we need a buff not nerfs. Nothing wrong with our class having a 30m stun. This above change is the kick to the groin for pyro mercs. I have a hard enough time keeping melee away from me. I would rather have a 1.3 Merc without the Interrupt, and that's saying a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baarabas Posted September 13, 2012 Author Share Posted September 13, 2012 What nerf? there is no range nerf to mercs/commandos Did you actually read the patch noted or did you just decide to make up stuff and QQ about it on the forums Just in case you didn't see these are the patch notes for merc Mercenaryi Due to changes in the Mercenary skill trees, all Mercenaries have had their skill points refunded. Disabling Shot is a new ability that interrupts the target's current action and prevents that ability from being used for the next 4 seconds. Arsenal Afterburners: Rocket Punch now immobilizes the target for 4 seconds instead of knocking it back. Pinning Fire: This ability's snare has been increased to 70%. Tracer Lock: Each stack of Tracer Lock now additionally reduces the activation time of your next Healing Scan by 20% per stack. Bodyguard Kolto Residue now additionally snares enemies struck by your Kolto Missile by 50% for 3 seconds. Warden is now a 3-point skill with the same overall effect. Peacekeeper is a new 2-point skill. While protected by your own Kolto Shell, firing Rapid Shots at an enemy now triggers your Kolto Shell (this can only happen once every 3 seconds). This does not trigger if your health is full. Pyrotech (Mercenary) Sweltering Heat's snare has been reduced to 30%. See?? no nerf to range whatsoever. L2read Readjusting the range of a 30 meter snare down to 10 meters is what, a buff? Just wondering. Merc and commandos have how many skills which take advantage of close combat? Wait, Ranged classes aren't supposed to play melee style fighting? That's right. Ok. Sweltering heat getting adjusted down from 50% to 30% is a buff? No? So where are the buffs for Pyro Merc and assault commando? Looks like I know how to read just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchangelLBC Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Readjusting the range of a 30 meter snare down to 10 meters is what, a buff? Just wondering. Merc and commandos have how many skills which take advantage of close combat? Wait, Ranged classes aren't supposed to play melee style fighting? That's right. Ok. Sweltering heat getting adjusted down from 50% to 30% is a buff? No? So where are the buffs for Pyro Merc and assault commando? Looks like I know how to read just fine. What snare are you talking about? Or did you mean stun? Which is definitely a nerf and which should be kept at 30m for Commandos (just like force stun should be kept at 30m for Sages). That being said, can we please just get dev to post that Commandos are only ever supposed to heal in PVP so us DPSers can stop holding out hope that our commandos will ever be truly competitive in top tier play? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxmob Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 But most of the time for mercs electro-dart is used as a 'you stay here i'm going to run away' ability so since the role of the merc is to stay out of the center of the fight and damage from the sides it will have very little affect on most users actually, it's an interrupt because mercs/commandos don't have anything else to interrupt with. that will change in 1.4, of course. commandos have zero escapability. every melee has a gap closer that cannot be countered (as in there is no immunity for it - no need to use leap or pull before a punt in the first place). every melee as as many or more CCs than a commando/merc. best to do as much dmg as you can with those 6 seconds instead of making space that will be lost one gcd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchangelLBC Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 actually, it's an interrupt because mercs/commandos don't have anything else to interrupt with. that will change in 1.4, of course. commandos have zero escapability. every melee has a gap closer that cannot be countered (as in there is no immunity for it - no need to use leap or pull before a punt in the first place). every melee as as many or more CCs than a commando/merc. best to do as much dmg as you can with those 6 seconds instead of making space that will be lost one gcd. Actually, except for healers (and I guess sorcs) I think we'll still have to use it that way. Snipers are immune to interrupts when in cover, Ravage is uninterruptable, and Force Lightning from Assassins is only being used by the tank spec ones to make it uninterruptable. Though hey I guess we can now interrupt each other! Oh goodie! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henu Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 this change was meant for powertech's but it effect's mercs because BW cant fix 1 thing with out breaking another.. Mercs tree should have an ability to increase the range back to 30m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baarabas Posted September 14, 2012 Author Share Posted September 14, 2012 this change was meant for powertech's but it effect's mercs because BW cant fix 1 thing with out breaking another.. Mercs tree should have an ability to increase the range back to 30m It's still on the test center, they can still do this. Or disconnect the abilities from PT Pyro. They are going to lose subs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surbatu Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 Though hey I guess we can now interrupt each other! Oh goodie! hahaha so true flame from AP PTs cant be interrupted too btw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asukaa Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 (edited) I don't do this and would not recommend it. It's better/more effective/more efficient to hold them at range before they close and continue firing. If you freeze and scoot you lower your damage output. CC for commandos/mercenaries should generally revolve around holding or pushing them away so you can, as often as possible, continue to engage the enemy. Actually I use this for Snipers as a "You stay right there out of cover and take full dmg!" And against Mara's as a "Oh, you're almost dead, too bad you won't be able to pop your 99% dmg reduction cd while stunned!" or "Oh, you popped your 99% dmg reduction? Well, stay right there until it wears off." =) Edited September 14, 2012 by Asukaa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_y Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 That being said, can we please just get dev to post that Commandos are only ever supposed to heal in PVP so us DPSers can stop holding out hope that our commandos will ever be truly competitive in top tier play? Please, no one tell him that Commandos can't heal in PvP, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technohic Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 Please, no one tell him that Commandos can't heal in PvP, either. I have given up on my merc healer. Not sure if its the class though, but leveling him, you get on teams where you are healing people and they ignore you getting attacked. At least as a sorc, I could run away or an operative, I could stealth. My merc can just hump a pillar until help doesn't arrive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hexdoll Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 Afterburners: Rocket Punch now immobilizes the target for 4 seconds instead of knocking it back. is a nerf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RazielHex Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 What I want to know is, why did Bioware engineers come to my house and kick my cat!? Why!? Oh.. They didn't? Then maybe they didn't nerf merc range to 10m either. Maybe the range nerf is only to powertech. I know for one I will be loving my new interrupt and Dragon Punch stun. SHORYUKEN MOTHER****ERS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soljin Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 I know for one I will be loving my new interrupt and Dragon Punch stun. SHORYUKEN MOTHER****ERS! Do you mean the root...the one the melee also just placed on you, and now they are Ravaging you while you enjoy your interupt that cant stop it....Hmmm Bet you'll miss that little KB then. Root is not a stun...I keep see'ing this...SW AC's both have Snares and roots built into their intro cycle....they will have you rooted automatically and be one global ahead wrecking your face by the time you root them...On my Jugg lets say your full WH...I will have 10k off your health before you ever even get the KB off...your already rooted and snared...and you cant DMG me because after the intial 2 secs you will break the remaining 2 secs of the root. Enjoy your chronic death in PvP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchangelLBC Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 Please, no one tell him that Commandos can't heal in PvP, either. See now, I know of a few good commando healers in PVP, though I guess they're probably like the few good DPS commandos and mostly misallocating way too much skill to bring a sub par class up to snuff. In fact, at least one of them just flat out switched to shadow. And yeah I'm mostly saying heal spec is the MOST viable of our available specs. I tend to draw a comparison to DPS Scoundrel/Operative in PVE where their only really viable spec is healing, but then they're really really good at it, so I guess the analogy fails there. BIOWARE WHY DO YOU HATE US?! The thing is that as far as their responses have been, I'd be willing to bet cash money they don't pay attention to any of these threads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technohic Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 Well look on the bright side. if you roll a pyro merc, you no longer will feel like you picked the wrong AC to do so. or at least not by as much, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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