Advanced Prototype in 1.4

[FeralPug]

Looks like AP gets a little bump in 1.4 that includes higher damage % on PFT, smaller stacks needed for full PFT and a bump in survivability:

 

Powertech

 

Advanced Prototype

Prototype Flame Thrower: Each stack now causes 20% additional damage. This can stack up to 3 times.

Stabilized Armor now additionally reduces damage taken from area effects by 15% per point. Damage reduction while stunned has been increased to 15% per point.

 

Thoughts? With the pyro nerf, who is eager to get up and running with AP? Do you think AP will be a viable alternative to pyro with these changes?

[anwg]

Seems to me pyro will be more of a PvE spec in 1.4. However, AP is quite bloated, especially if you go down the retractable blade line. Edited September 10, 2012 by anwg

[dijskykiller]

Pyro lacks mobility which makes the spec harder post 1.4 with the sweltering heat slow nerf and IM & TD range nerf. Players aware of this will keep pyro's rooted and snared while kiting 'em, and they are dang squishy. Also, pyro's will end up using rapid shots as a RS opener from a far.

 

On the other hand, AP will get a nice damage buff on PFT and mitigation with SA, which helps the spec for more (small) bursts and staying power.

 

I would really like to try AP in ranked post 1.2. Im coming from Pyro at 1.2 and AP to Pyro at 1.3.

Edited September 11, 2012 by dijskykiller

[nDjiin]

Seems to me pyro will be more of a PvE spec in 1.4. However, AP is quite bloated, especially if you go down the retractable blade line.

 

Pyro will not be a pve spec in 1.4 - the lack of a closer means that DPS down time (due to lack of ranged attacks) means that they will not be viable as a DPS tree (or even a class imo) - they really need to let PT's have Jet charge as a standard skill and not one that is only available to the tank tree.

 

I mean is it too much to ask - for a melee class to be able to attack its target ?

[Skullbash]

Its a pretty good buff, although I'd rather they rework hydraulic overrides to give total cc immunity. Edited September 11, 2012 by Skullbash

[DakoHawk]

Its a pretty good buff, although I'd rather they rework hydraulic overrides to give total cc immunity.

 

I play tactics, and changes like that are what lead to the huge nerfs that assault is getting.

[aVmuse]

With 3 stacks do we still get Uninterruptable and a 70% slow?

[SneiK]

With 3 stacks do we still get Uninterruptable and a 70% slow?

 

Yes, you will.

[foulsmell]

imo ap changes look like a nice lil buff, pyro nerf is barely a nerf (if you think you dont have a closer L2 grapple)..

 

shield tech really needs some pvp love. you almost never see shield tech in ranked wzs. maybe something high up in the skill tree like an improved taunt or a couple/few secs off grapple and jump.

[FeralPug]

With the addition of several movement buffs to different classes, I'm thinking the overall speed and mobility of AP will be necessary just to keep up with the faster opponents on the field.

 

I've also played a ranked VS recently where I ended up running Ion cylinder during the defense round just to stay alive long enough to prevent door caps. AP isn't as hampered when you switch to the tank cylinder as pyro is. Your main damage functions the same (though with potential heat issues if you're not careful), and you can spec for some seriously nice damage reduction.

 

Sometimes in ranked its best to stay alive long enough to avoid dying on a full door timer and to prevent caps. Hard to do as pyro.

Edited September 11, 2012 by FeralPug

[Twighead]

imo ap changes look like a nice lil buff, pyro nerf is barely a nerf (if you think you dont have a closer L2 grapple)..

 

shield tech really needs some pvp love. you almost never see shield tech in ranked wzs. maybe something high up in the skill tree like an improved taunt or a couple/few secs off grapple and jump.

 

If you open with grapple as a pyro in pvp that is an absolutely terrible move. You will be instantly knocked back, rooted, or stunned and back out of 10m range in 2 seconds with no way to close the gap or put out any significant dps on your target. In my opinion, this is a pretty big nerf for pyros. You will be fodder for snipers and other ranged classes.

[TheronFett]

With the addition of several movement buffs to different classes, I'm thinking the overall speed and mobility of AP will be necessary just to keep up with the faster opponents on the field.

 

I've also played a ranked VS recently where I ended up running Ion cylinder during the defense round just to stay alive long enough to prevent door caps. AP isn't as hampered when you switch to the tank cylinder as pyro is. Your main damage functions the same (though with potential heat issues if you're not careful), and you can spec for some seriously nice damage reduction.

 

Sometimes in ranked its best to stay alive long enough to avoid dying on a full door timer and to prevent caps. Hard to do as pyro.

 

Broke my BH out of PvP retirement yesterday for this exact reason. With all the changes coming in 1.4, on the surface at least, it seems as if AP will be a more viable spec for PvP for a lot of the reasons you stated above.

 

AP is still a bit lackluster in my opinion. For whatever reason, it seems like the spec doesn't crit nearly as often as it should. Then again, I'm still re-gearing from tank spec, so it may just be me.

[FeralPug]

AP really requires the stacking of crit, since it doesn't have any natural crit enhancers. I'll be going straight Aim, crit and endurance for my AP min/maxing.

[TheronFett]

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing after I posted this. Looking at my gear for both PvP and PvE, I've stacked mostly Power instead of Aim. Back to the drawing board (and the bank). Good thing I'm Armormech and can make my own Aim augments!

[DacRycar]

imo ap changes look like a nice lil buff, pyro nerf is barely a nerf (if you think you dont have a closer L2 grapple)..

 

shield tech really needs some pvp love. you almost never see shield tech in ranked wzs. maybe something high up in the skill tree like an improved taunt or a couple/few secs off grapple and jump.

 

And what happens if your target has a full Resolve bar? Where's your gap-closing grapple then?

 

Gap closers are a means to shorten the distance between you and your target quickly to begin damage. Leaps, sprints and even stealth are three means of gap closing. A pull is not considered a gap closer because a pull is essentially a crowd control ability that stacks Resolve. By filling your target's Resolve bar with a pull, you only hurt yourself when you're unable to stun them.

 

As for your shield spec PvP, there's are reasons you don't see many Vanguard tanks in the Warzones. First, you cannot shield (and subsequently absorb) Force and Tech attacks. Second, your armor cannot mitigate against Internal and Elemental damage. Third, you do not possess the plethora of defensive cooldowns that other tank classes have (see Guardians, Juggernauts, Shadows and Infiltrators).

 

The latter may be a reason to buff Vanguards/Powertechs across the board – but you won't see anyone rallying to that cause anytime soon. Not with all these pitchforks coming at us.

[oakamp]

And what happens if your target has a full Resolve bar? Where's your gap-closing grapple then?

 

Gap closers are a means to shorten the distance between you and your target quickly to begin damage. Leaps, sprints and even stealth are three means of gap closing. A pull is not considered a gap closer because a pull is essentially a crowd control ability that stacks Resolve. By filling your target's Resolve bar with a pull, you only hurt yourself when you're unable to stun them.

 

As for your shield spec PvP, there's are reasons you don't see many Vanguard tanks in the Warzones. First, you cannot shield (and subsequently absorb) Force and Tech attacks. Second, your armor cannot mitigate against Internal and Elemental damage. Third, you do not possess the plethora of defensive cooldowns that other tank classes have (see Guardians, Juggernauts, Shadows and Infiltrators).

 

The latter may be a reason to buff Vanguards/Powertechs across the board – but you won't see anyone rallying to that cause anytime soon. Not with all these pitchforks coming at us.

 

they don't know how to fight as a pt,

not worth to waste time to discuss with them.

[CharterMonkKent]

I posted the below in another thread this morning, pvp forum. Spec is here http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301G0hZrsrrMrbzbsZb.2 1.4 should make AP a saucy little spec. Also, whoever said crit stacking is needed, is correct. It is low. Anyway. from my other post....

 

I played AP last night, was playing pyro for a few months (AP has always been my first love as PT, have eliminator WH set). When geared, like any spec, AP hits like a tank. Numbers below are what I saw in 7 matches last night. Low end to high end crit. Obviously crit rate is high, geared. I hit a sent with 5.1k immolate and 4.5k RP in two globals last night.

 

1. Immolate - 3.4k-5.1k

2. RP - 3.1k-4.8k

3. Flame Burst - 2.2k-3.5k

4. I rarely use Rail as AP, only against the squishy ones. Some AP builds don't spec it all (NORSE builds) and leave it off keybinds. It's a preference, I still had it break 4.3k last night. About 10% under my Pyro rail (4.6-5.1)

5. PFT - my highest last night was 4 ticks of 2.8k during its channel, under 3 sec. 11k+ damage AOE. I hit one person with the full 4 tics and 2 others with 2 tics. This will be getting a 10% damage increase and a stack reduction of 2.

[FeralPug]

I posted the below in another thread this morning, pvp forum. Spec is here http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301G0hZrsrrMrbzbsZb.2 1.4 should make AP a saucy little spec. Also, whoever said crit stacking is needed, is correct. It is low. Anyway. from my other post....

 

I played AP last night, was playing pyro for a few months (AP has always been my first love as PT, have eliminator WH set). When geared, like any spec, AP hits like a tank. Numbers below are what I saw in 7 matches last night. Low end to high end crit. Obviously crit rate is high, geared. I hit a sent with 5.1k immolate and 4.5k RP in two globals last night.

 

1. Immolate - 3.4k-5.1k

2. RP - 3.1k-4.8k

3. Flame Burst - 2.2k-3.5k

4. I rarely use Rail as AP, only against the squishy ones. Some AP builds don't spec it all (NORSE builds) and leave it off keybinds. It's a preference, I still had it break 4.3k last night. About 10% under my Pyro rail (4.6-5.1)

5. PFT - my highest last night was 4 ticks of 2.8k during its channel, under 3 sec. 11k+ damage AOE. I hit one person with the full 4 tics and 2 others with 2 tics. This will be getting a 10% damage increase and a stack reduction of 2.

 

Nice.

 

Could you share your crit number (% and crit rating) and your Aim? Would love to see how you've itemized.

 

I'm really curious about running this AP spec with ion cylinder active:

 

http://db.darthhater.com/skill_calc/bounty_hunter/powertech/#::fef4e2f12e4f2e12fefef16:

[CharterMonkKent]

Nice.

 

Could you share your crit number (% and crit rating) and your Aim? Would love to see how you've itemized.

 

I'm really curious about running this AP spec with ion cylinder active:

 

http://db.darthhater.com/skill_calc/bounty_hunter/powertech/#::fef4e2f12e4f2e12fefef16:

 

I'll take a look when I'm home tonight and post the numbers. I am not close to all the way itemized right now. I'm gearing out 6 toons atm so it's slow going. Basically enough time to get through most of my dalies a few times a week. I was about to get more crit from a WH piece but instead I'm maxing coms for the new main hand with 1.4. The grind never ends.

 

EDIT: As for Ion. You're going to run into heat issues, much worse than pyro. Long time back I used to run the iron fist spec, mix of ST/AP. It was fun but made for a meh tank and meh dps. BUT. I say try it out and see. Running AP with High Energy, spec'd for heat reduction, you will never over heat. Well, I suppose you can spam flameburst 15 times in a row. And retractable blade. I just can't get behind it right now. The slow is meh, the bleed is meh. They need to make the dot something to fear

Edited September 12, 2012 by CharterMonkKent

[DacRycar]

I posted the below in another thread this morning, pvp forum. Spec is here http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301G0hZrsrrMrbzbsZb.2 1.4 should make AP a saucy little spec.

 

This spec is also known as the NORSE Spec (NO Rail Shot Ever) - or rather a slight variation of it – and a full explanation of the spec can be found in the sticky titled "The Bounty Hunter's Guide to PFT" by TheOpf.

 

Rotation is simple (even simpler than Pyro's):

Immolate

Flameburst

Flameburst

Flameburst

(free) Rocket Punch

Flameburst

(5 stack) Flamethrower

(second verse, same as the first)

 

Remove Rapid Shot from your quickslots; you will not need it, nor will you want to use it least you break the 12-second rotation. You must use High Energy Cell or you will overheat.

Edited September 12, 2012 by DacRycar

[CharterMonkKent]

This spec is also known as the NORSE Spec (NO Rail Shot Ever) - or rather a slight variation of it – and a full explanation of the spec can be found in the sticky titled "The Bounty Hunter's Guide to PFT" by TheOpf.

 

Rotation is simple (even simpler than Pyro's):

Immolate

Flameburst

Flameburst

Flameburst

(free) Rocket Punch

Flameburst

(5 stack) Flamethrower

(second verse, same as the first)

 

Remove Rapid Shot from your quickslots; you will not need it, nor will you want to use it least you break the 12-second rotation. You must use High Energy Cell or you will overheat.

 

I still use rapid shots when often: closing in, running away or chasing someone down (ball carrier). I wouldn't remove it. If you don't use it you wont have an on the run attack +10m.

 

1.4 will change that rotation because you only need 3 stacks for PFT. PFT is still very situational. It's not like using smash, you need the angle, the targets and lvl ground. To be honest I was hoping 1.4 would put the damage stack on immolate.

[DacRycar]

I still use rapid shots when often: closing in, running away or chasing someone down (ball carrier). I wouldn't remove it. If you don't use it you wont have an on the run attack +10m.

 

1.4 will change that rotation because you only need 3 stacks for PFT. PFT is still very situational. It's not like using smash, you need the angle, the targets and lvl ground. To be honest I was hoping 1.4 would put the damage stack on immolate.

 

Absolutely agreed to most of this, including keeping Rapid Shots on your bar (since we have no freakin' gap closer, BIOWARE!)

 

I would still try to use PFT as often as possible to avoid wasting the stack; however, as you said, in 1.4 it will stack much quicker.

 

Perhaps a rotation like this?:

Immolate

Flameburst

(free) Rocket Punch

Flameburst

(3 stack) Flamethrower

 

Needs work to time it so that Immolate is back up at the end of the rotation.

Edited September 12, 2012 by DacRycar

[BanetheDarkLord]

It seems there will be about 3 flavors of AP and it all revolves around these 3 abilities:

 

Rail Shot

Retractable Blade

Flamethrower

 

Basically pick 2 out of those three and build around that. If you go for fitting all three in one, it will be a little difficult to balance out and prioritize what talents need to be picked over others for a nice flowing build. Not saying it isn't possible, but it makes a lot of sense to keep focus on just 2 out of these 3 abilities because AP is loaded with options.

 

Examples:

 

A Flamethrower and Retractable Blade focused build would be the NORSE build ( http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301G0hZrkrrRrdzbsZb.2 )

 

A Flamethrower and Rail Shot build would looked like what CharterMonkKent posted ( http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301G0hZrsrrMrbzbsZb.2 ) Maybe switch Combust for Rail Loaders.

 

A Rail Shot and Retractable Blade could look like this: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301hMhZMsrrkrckbsZb.2

Had trouble deciding between 2 in Pneumatic Boots or Advanced Tools, but it looks okay. Probably the worst out of these options.

 

 

Anyway, lots of tooling around with the builds with AP will be done and people will find their preferences because as I said, there are many options within AP overall.

[DacRycar]

A Flamethrower and Rail Shot build would looked like what CharterMonkKent posted ( http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301G0hZrsrrMrbzbsZb.2 ) Maybe switch Combust for Rail Loaders.

 

This is an example where you can't judge a rotation or priority based on the spec. In this particular case, the points put into Puncture are simply necessities to climb the tree. This build favors an Immolate/Flameburst to PFT rotation; Rail Shot isn't in the equation. It is, for all intents and purpose, a modified NORSE build for those who would rather not waste points on an ability they would avoid using (Retractable Blade).

 

While the Powertech with this build CAN fire a Rail Shot, they can only do so via another player's DoT. This only proves how unfavorable the current AP/Tactics tree is.

Edited September 12, 2012 by DacRycar

[BanetheDarkLord]

This is an example where you can't judge a rotation or priority based on the spec. In this particular case, the points put into Puncture are simply necessities to climb the tree. This build favors an Immolate/Flameburst to PFT rotation; Rail Shot isn't in the equation. It is, for all intents and purpose, a modified NORSE build for those who would rather not waste points on an ability they would avoid using (Retractable Blade).

 

While the Powertech with this build CAN fire a Rail Shot, they can only do so via another player's DoT. This only proves how unfavorable the current AP/Tactics tree is.

 

I do understand your point, but none the less, those 3 abilities are some of the highest heat generating abilities used by AP. Yes Flame Sweep, Explosive Dart, Flame Burst and Rocket Punch are on par with heat generation, but Explosvie Dart and Flame Sweep are always used very minimally in AP (I've used Sweep as mainly PFT generator with low heat and lots of enemies), Flame Burst is built into the spec and is needed, and Rocket Punch can be procced for free of heat cost. So if you keep in mind what abilities you CAN use more effectively with a build that encourages the use of said abilities (for example, the rail shot in the build you were focusing on) you know your not just using Rail Shot because you CAN, but because you have already supported its use through your build.

 

I already prefer NORSE anyway, but I'll give that build from CharterMonkKent a shot to see whether or not it's better to have Retractable Blade for NORSE or Kent's build that supports the use of Rail Shot.

Edited September 12, 2012 by BanetheDarkLord