My thoughts as to why people hate PT's...

[Asukaa]

Just copying what I posted on another thread...

 

Since playing the VG to see what all the complaints were about... I can see it. With my VG I don't do more dps than other classes, but I deal all my dmg up front in 1 string of bursts. No one can really survive it excepts tanks. I think that's what people hate 1v1. But when in a cluster f * ck of people ae'ing and maybe one range focusing me, I don't stay up all that long, actually I stay up for a decent amount of time if my shield cd is up. Nothing close to mara's/sents or shadows/sins tho.

 

Most classes ramp up to their burst, VG's/Pyro's burst is immediate. With the best gear, a VG/Pyro can take out about 2 people within 10 secs of lucky bursts. It is a bit "wth!?" but after that they don't have any ammo and are sitting ducks for a good while. I don't think BW/EA really understand the mechanics as I believe devs don't really know how to play any classes in PVP. I don't think they care for PVP at all. Look at all the future plans they have... PVE based with 1 measly wz thrown out there for pvper's.

[UGLYMRJ]

Over and Under are relative terms. Overpowered compared to what? Underpowered compared to what?

 

We don't have good enough information from BW to be able to form actual baselines or averages when arguing the OP or UP status of a class, so we rely on our own perceptions.

 

The fact that any simpleton can excel as a Pyro PT means that there will be a lot of them. The fact that there are a lot of them means most players are going to spend a lot of time seeing "Assault Plastique" mocking them while they wait to respawn. That is going to give the player the impression that the Pyro PT is OP.

 

Now that isn't to say that their impression is right or wrong. Remember, we don't have enough information to actually make those determinations.

 

I've argued the "perspective" argument time and time again only to have people quote one sentence of my statement and completely ignore it.

 

Over all tho... I couldn't agree more. Which is why I feel people have this misconception about them being OP. They see some big numbers from a class that gets rolled a lot and think "Well, I can't do that on my sorc so that class must be better than mine"

 

So far from the truth... And the worst part is those damage numbers mean very little. I know a Merc who will put up top DPS almost every game he plays. He brags about it... I'm annoyed by it. This guy ONLY knows damage.... as do most PT's I run into in WZ's. I'm not even sure this guy has ever planted a bomb or capped a node in his life. He's too busy searching for a group to drop DFA on instead of focusing on objectives. From what I've seen on my server... many FOTM PT rollers play the same way.

[Leiralei]

Equal skill and gear a mara/sent will win over a pt/van any match no contest.

 

All the "nerf pt/van" threads are just from bad mara/sent players.

Edited September 10, 2012 by Leiralei

[BanetheDarkLord]

I would agree that it is a lot easier to play a PT for damage than most other classes. I actually found it so easy, it was boring to me. I don't like the idea of only using 5 abilities 95% of the time when I play my BH. I've been trying the Advanced Prototype tree and its ok, but I'm considering re-rolling my BH to a Merc because the PT pyro, as good as it is, is just so boring. Edited September 10, 2012 by BanetheDarkLord

[oredith]

people who think pyro are over simplistic should simply try to get over 75k protection per match while doing over 500k dmg.

 

if all you do is tunnel vision and hit those 4-5 buttons, yeah, it'd be pretty boring.

[UGLYMRJ]

people who think pyro are over simplistic should simply try to get over 75k protection per match while doing over 500k dmg.

 

if all you do is tunnel vision and hit those 4-5 buttons, yeah, it'd be pretty boring.

 

Even while taunting I find it very simple in comparison to the other classes I've played. We all know how much I hate PT's that don't taunt.

[Jaiyne]

If I'm understanding you correctly... you underestimate your own class.

 

I love my class. I play it because it's challenging and is by far the most fun class I have played to 50 in this game. But really, it's funny to me to hear a PT tell me to use my "defensive CDs" correctly, lol.

[oredith]

Even while taunting I find it very simple in comparison to the other classes I've played. We all know how much I hate PT's that don't taunt.

adding the taunt brings a lot of complexity to the game. to maximize the protection numbers, you've gotta know who's gonna be attacking what, who to target with single target taunt vs. aoe taunt, etc. it's like the next step to a higher level of situation awareness.

 

it's one thing to just spam taunt on cooldown, it's another to actually strategically place them on the right people.

[UGLYMRJ]

I love my class. I play it because it's challenging and is by far the most fun class I have played to 50 in this game. But really, it's funny to me to hear a PT tell me to use my "defensive CDs" correctly, lol.

 

Here's what I understood it as though... you saying that the sorc doesn't have any DCD's. And while they may not have anything passed the bubble that soaks up a ton of damage, they have a ton of defensive abilities that are quite useful when used properly.

 

It's a different argument but the concept is very much the same. While they are more defensive abilities they are just as important if not more and need to be managed and used properly just as a DCD with any other class.

 

Again, wrong thread but I was confused about the way you worded it... as if a PT had more defensive tools than a sorc/sage.

 

If that is what you're saying... I would strongly disagree.

[UGLYMRJ]

adding the taunt brings a lot of complexity to the game. to maximize the protection numbers, you've gotta know who's gonna be attacking what, who to target with single target taunt vs. aoe taunt, etc. it's like the next step to a higher level of situation awareness.

 

it's one thing to just spam taunt on cooldown, it's another to actually strategically place them on the right people.

 

Very true, my point was more from the stand point of pure DPS output is easier to achieve. But I get what you're saying completely. I think I forget about that because it becomes second nature at this point. Especially when I'm normally protecting my healer in my guild and then it becomes even easier.

 

AOE taunt melee that all up in his @ss, look for the sniper/slinger for single target....

 

Like I said before I almost only run my PT with the Op healer in guild so I guess I have forgotten what it's like to actually do more than spam the taunts. When he's around it's like a DPS magnet with a sign above it saying "TAUNT HERE"

 

[Jaiyne]

If that is what you're saying... I would strongly disagree.

 

Yeah we'll need another thread then, because I absolutely disagree with you. Pretty sure the 3 PTs, 2 Maras, and Jugg on my *** disagree with you too

 

Like I said though, I will continue to lol when a PT gives me song and dance about balancing defensive CDs. Say that to any other AC and OK, I agree. It makes sense. Say it to a sage/sorc is just lol considering our "defensive CDs" are actually identical to our offensive abilities, and are required to do anything other than try to run away. No other AC has to make that choice. Defensive and offensive abilities are very clearly two different things for every other AC. This is not the case with the sage/sorc.

 

/exit

[oredith]

Yeah we'll need another thread then, because I absolutely disagree with you. Pretty sure the 3 PTs, 2 Maras, and Jugg on my *** disagree with you too

 

Like I said though, I will continue to lol when a PT gives me song and dance about balancing defensive CDs. Say that to any other AC and OK, I agree. It makes sense. Say it to a sage/sorc is just lol considering our "defensive CDs" are actually identical to our offensive abilities, and are required to do anything other than try to run away. No other AC has to make that choice. Defensive and offensive abilities are very clearly two different things for every other AC. This is not the case with the sage/sorc.

 

/exit

if you're able to survive more than 2 seconds with 3 PT, 2 Maras, and 1 Jugg, sorc are in a serious need of a nerf - with like, a 2 ton hammer.

[Jaiyne]

if you're able to survive more than 2 seconds with 3 PT, 2 Maras, and 1 Jugg, sorc are in a serious need of a nerf - with like, a 2 ton hammer.

 

Nah dude, that's just when they make a beeline for me from across the mid point.

 

Sorcs/Sages are the best bait in WZs...ever.

[TheronFett]

people who think pyro are over simplistic should simply try to get over 75k protection per match while doing over 500k dmg.

 

if all you do is tunnel vision and hit those 4-5 buttons, yeah, it'd be pretty boring.

 

Uh...no challenge. That's fairly routine, I'd venture to say. Considering taunts are off the global CD, anyone who's half awake can do this with a Pyro PT. No special snowflakes for you.

[oredith]

Uh...no challenge. That's fairly routine, I'd venture to say. Considering taunts are off the global CD, anyone who's half awake can do this with a Pyro PT. No special snowflakes for you.

"no challenge" is fine. i manage it *sometimes*, but i would really depend on having a friendly healer.

 

the greater point is that most pyros can NOT do this, because they're busy tunnelvisioning .

[Solarenergy]

Like a few other posters here, I was one of the ones that was playing a powertech long before it was the it thing to do. My first character that I created back in January was a powertech. There were indeed a lot fewer powertechs about 6-8 months ago. I've noticed now a lot more people are playing them, probably because in the past 2-3 months, there has been a lot of talk about how overpowered they are. I never really felt my powertech was overpowered or underpowered, and I've actually done much better overall playing other classes in warzones (such as sniper, healing sorc, and scrapper scoundrel) than I have ever done as a powertech. I really don't know where people got the idea that powertechs and vanguards are so op. I recently rolled a vanguard by the way, and again the same, I really don't feel it's op at all. I did better with my level 15 scoundrel than I'm doing with my vanguard of the same level.

[Ssfbistimg]

Yeah let me just line up my sage/sorc's defensive CDs...

 

Oh wait.

 

Lol. my defensive cooldown is broken as a sage so bioware is giving me a new one. I dont want the new self heal tho. As a Balance Sage i want force in balance healing when specced into psychic absorption to actually work as intended. I'm suppose to get back 2% of my max health with each target hit. yet weather I hit 1, 2 or 3 targets I only get back 2% of 1 target. I have 20K health so 1 target should give me 400 health back (and it does) 3 targets should give me back 1200 which it doesn't it still gives me 400. Bioware doesn't seem to care as I have sent in many tickets about it. I would live so much Longer getting 1200 back every 15 seconds like the skill says.

[UGLYMRJ]

Yeah we'll need another thread then, because I absolutely disagree with you. Pretty sure the 3 PTs, 2 Maras, and Jugg on my *** disagree with you too

 

Like I said though, I will continue to lol when a PT gives me song and dance about balancing defensive CDs. Say that to any other AC and OK, I agree. It makes sense. Say it to a sage/sorc is just lol considering our "defensive CDs" are actually identical to our offensive abilities, and are required to do anything other than try to run away. No other AC has to make that choice. Defensive and offensive abilities are very clearly two different things for every other AC. This is not the case with the sage/sorc.

 

/exit

 

This is definitely in the wrong thread to have this discussion but I really can't help myself.

 

Are you suggesting that the bubble, sprint, knock back and slow are OFFENSIVE tools?

 

And just because they're different than say saber ward or energy shield are you suggesting they're WORSE?

 

And actually there are several AC's that have to do the exact same thing... every ranged AC in the game? Am I forgetting a ranged AC that can face tank in a 1v1?

 

My point is... just because we only have one ability that mitigates damage, does not mean we only have one defensive tool. It would be silly to give a ranged class more of those abilities instead of the abilities that help establish a distance. Hence the term.... ranged.

 

Do you really think it would make sense to give a ranged class Undying Rage? Sure it wouldn't hurt.... but I'll take my sprint, slow, KB, mezz, bubble pop, stun, thanks.

Edited September 10, 2012 by UGLYMRJ

[Jaiyne]

This is definitely in the wrong thread to have this discussion but I really can't help myself.

 

Yeah, we can discuss elsewhere as you're not reading what I wrote as it was intended. Regardless, I should be clear that I do not think PTs are OP. I just find it funny when one of them tries to give a Sage/Sorc the same advice they give a Mara, Jugg, Sniper, Assassin, or Op, for example. Those classes have clear delineations between offensive abilities and defensive abilities. It's not difficult to understand this.

 

Do you really think it would make sense to give a ranged class Undying Rage? Sure it wouldn't hurt.... but I'll take my sprint, slow, KB, mezz, bubble pop, stun, thanks.

 

Of course not. I am actually happy with sage/sorc the way they are; the new heal coming in 1.4 is not going to be helpful and I would not care if they scrapped it. In short, I like that I have to try harder than most on the field because we've been labeled a free kill (right or wrong this is just how it is). 4 buttons + "defensive abilities" that are always up would bore me to tears

[UGLYMRJ]

Yeah, we can discuss elsewhere as you're not reading what I wrote as it was intended. Regardless, I should be clear that I do not think PTs are OP. I just find it funny when one of them tries to give a Sage/Sorc the same advice they give a Mara, Jugg, Sniper, Assassin, or Op, for example. Those classes have clear delineations between offensive abilities and defensive abilities. It's not difficult to understand this.

 

 

 

Of course not. I am actually happy with sage/sorc the way they are; the new heal coming in 1.4 is not going to be helpful and I would not care if they scrapped it. In short, I like that I have to try harder than most on the field because we've been labeled a free kill (right or wrong this is just how it is). 4 buttons + "defensive abilities" that are always up would bore me to tears

 

Ok, my fault... I completely misunderstood you but it's clear now.

 

I didn't read it as irony... I read it as saying sorcs didn't have the tools.

 

I think the insta heal will come in handy... as will the shorter CD on sprint. I'm definitely looking forward to the changes over all.

 

But back on topic...

 

It seems pretty obvious that we need to nerf operatives.

[DarkSaberMaster]

 

It seems pretty obvious that we need to nerf operatives.

 

YES!!!!!!!!!!!! NERF!!!!!!!!! NERF!!!!!!!!! NERF!!!!!!!!!!! NERF EM TO THE FREAKING GROUND!!!!!!!!!! Lol.

 

j/k

[Jaiyne]

 

It seems pretty obvious that we need to nerf operatives.

 

/signed

[NoTomorrow]

I still haven't tried AP and I have no idea why... I always play with different specs on other classes but not the PT. Is it any more complex/fun for PvP while still being effective? I've seen a few people say it is but I'd like to hear the opinions of the few people on these forums that I would actually take seriously.

 

Y U NO PLAY AP ??

 

There is one simple trick about AP, flame sweep also adds to PFT even without hitting enemies. So between fights you can ensure that you will have always 5 stacks at the beginning of a fight. In 1.4 AP will be mych more superior to Pyro, because pyro lost its main advantage over AP: 30m ranged openings.

 

Also PFT will be maxed at 3 stacks, each stack adding 20% instead of 10%. Its an amazing buff. If you are fightinga group of 3 clumped enemies, just aoe stun and burn them all. You will bring them very low on hp.

 

And most important: immolate > any other ability in this game.. Apart from 40m 5500 takedown across the map.

 

Once PT AP population will catch up, we might witness some nerf cries even more crazier than with pyro.

Edited September 10, 2012 by NoTomorrow

[UGLYMRJ]

Y U NO PLAY AP ??

 

.

 

Honestly... just cuz pyro is so effective. If it ain't broke...

 

Just never really crossed my mind and I hate re-spec'ing but now that I know more about it... def have to check it out soon. I've honestly not even looked at yet.

[NoTomorrow]

Honestly... just cuz pyro is so effective. If it ain't broke...

 

Just never really crossed my mind and I hate re-spec'ing but now that I know more about it... def have to check it out soon. I've honestly not even looked at yet.

 

Well, on average you will do 100k less damage per match, that is true, but i think the reason behind this is gcd. I hope you got the combat tech set instead of eliminator as eleminator is useless for AP (your railshots will crit anyway).

 

Just remember, all ap speed buffs work only in combat. No point in using hydraulic overrides when relocating between mission objectives.

Edited September 11, 2012 by NoTomorrow