Matt Brobmerg interview on free-to-play

[Soluss]

Perfect example. More than a million people cancelled their subscriptions, and you show me a thread that has 370 posts in it.

 

That's called a 0.00037% sample size, and is obviously not scientific, since those using the forums are usually more of the expert users of the game.

 

Their questionnaire on cancellation, on the other hand, is applied to everyone who cancels. I'm betting they got a lot more than 370 responses on that questionnaire. And they say that 40% of those had concerns about the subscription fee.

 

I'll believe their 40% number more easily until some one shows me some serious data to the contrary.

 

Well... some people will believe anything BW throws at them... without using some common sense.

 

Is it more likely that people cant afford 15 bucks a month OR

Is it more likely that people dont feel the game is worth paying 15 bucks a month for?

[Soluss]

no you are missreading what he said in the interview he says

 

 

 

if you actually read it he is saying that SUBSCRIBERS are going to have an ADVANTAGE over NON SUBSCRIBERS and the SUBSCRIBERS ARE HAPPY WITH THAT

 

Basic reading comprehension skills help

 

Can you tell me how they know their subscribers are happy with it? AFAIK no questioneers went out. If you look at the forums there are only about 5 - 10 of you that are happy with BW.

[Soluss]

can you name a single MMO that has content released faster then 6 weeks?

 

It took WoW what 10 months since the last content patch? Their average is 5-6 months.

 

Rift averages 2-3 months between content patches.

 

ToR isnt on that list either so whats your point.

[Soluss]

yeah DDO did when it launched but those where small updates it would be like adding a new 4 man heroic every month.

 

They told us though the updates every 6 weeks wouldn't happen till it goes F2P.

 

Which will be the same thing you just described...

 

1 flashpoint or 1 warzone or 1 character race or 1 op...etc

 

Although it will be better then what they have done so far

 

How long it actually lasts is another topic. Its been 5 months now of waiting for NIM mode denova. Its been 5 months now waiting for a new OP. Its been 5 months now on waiting on anything except a crappy 1 week long world event. You think they are going to just flip the switch and start doing those in 6 weeks?

[jarjarloves]

Which will be the same thing you just described...

 

1 flashpoint or 1 warzone or 1 character race or 1 op...etc

 

Although it will be better then what they have done so far

 

How long it actually lasts is another topic. Its been 5 months now of waiting for NIM mode denova. Its been 5 months now waiting for a new OP. Its been 5 months now on waiting on anything except a crappy 1 week long world event. You think they are going to just flip the switch and start doing those in 6 weeks?

 

a flashpoint every 6 weeks is a LOT more then what DDO had as montly additions., Basicly DDO was adding 1 new quest every month.

 

You seem to be under the impression they don't have anything done. You would be foolish to think they aren't already sitting on months of content. Do you honestly think that HK-51 isn't ready yet? He was done in beta. They are stockpiling content for the F2P release it's clear thats what they have been doing since 1.2.

[Styxx]

yeah DDO did when it launched but those where small updates it would be like adding a new 4 man heroic every month.

 

They told us though the updates every 6 weeks wouldn't happen till it goes F2P.

 

They also told us the updates every 4 weeks will happen... We all know how this turned out. They failed to do so, while trying to save their jobs...

 

So, now, you simply expect them to deliver with less, about.. everything .

 

 

they are not saying they lost people because of the subscription model they said that the people who left said they would come back if there was no subscription

 

see the difference.

The same people that found the end-game lacking? Those people? So, they didn`t think it`s worth when they actually had access to EVERYTHING, but, miraculously, they will flock and buy the same content they left for? Sound logic on Bioware`s part.. really sound.

 

I`ll let you in a lil` secret - nobody complained about the story-lines, or the leveling, except for the extremes - one that`s too fast, the others too slow. The vast majority actually likes this part of SWTOR. The problem is what you do after you finish it, or get to 50. THAT pushed players away. Because all Bioware could think of, was re-roll.

Edited September 1, 2012 by Styxx

[Skoobie]

a flashpoint every 6 weeks is a LOT more then what DDO had as montly additions., Basicly DDO was adding 1 new quest every month.

 

I'm sorry, that's not true at all.

 

They were adding new modules & updates, which were series of quests. At least two of those updates contained raids.

 

It's exactly like adding a new flashpoint, if not more.

 

http://ddowiki.com/page/Category:Modules_and_updates

Edited September 1, 2012 by Skoobie

[opriv]

"Do you think you'll make more money converting to this model?"

 

"I don't know."

 

 

WHAT???!!! Stop the presses. This is a multimillion dollar business and you drastically shift your cash flow model and the best you can say is that you don't know????? If I was an investor at EA, I would sell out asap.

 

This is a serious problem that strikes at the very heart of bioware and EA's relationship. Someone has to know, unless things are just that desperate.

[Soluss]

a flashpoint every 6 weeks is a LOT more then what DDO had as montly additions., Basicly DDO was adding 1 new quest every month.

 

You seem to be under the impression they don't have anything done. You would be foolish to think they aren't already sitting on months of content. Do you honestly think that HK-51 isn't ready yet? He was done in beta. They are stockpiling content for the F2P release it's clear thats what they have been doing since 1.2.

 

I know they are stockpiling content. They have to be. That stockpile will run out eventually. They also could be stockpiling it to bundle it with the Makeb "expansion" too. The first patch post launch was stockpiled content, that wasnt completely finished at the end of beta. Thats why I dont include it in the "post launch content" category.

[jarjarloves]

I'm sorry, that's not true at all.

 

They were adding new modules & updates, which were series of quests. At least two of those updates contained raids.

 

It's exactly like adding a new flashpoint, if not more.

 

http://ddowiki.com/page/Category:Modules_and_updates

 

oh hell no. If you are considering Dragon Vault as something that can compare to a Flashpoint like Kaoin Under Siege you are out of your mind. Dragon vault is small short and stupid.

[Kubernetic]

Well... some people will believe anything BW throws at them... without using some common sense.

 

Is it more likely that people cant afford 15 bucks a month OR

Is it more likely that people dont feel the game is worth paying 15 bucks a month for?

 

It's more likely that the group with the data sets are more accurate in their analysis than those that do not have the data sets, or are using compromised or non-realistic data sets.

 

The rest is just speculation and conjecture.

[Skoobie]

oh hell no. If you are considering Dragon Vault as something that can compare to a Flashpoint like Kaoin Under Siege you are out of your mind. Dragon vault is small short and stupid.

 

A series of 6 quests ending with a raid is short?

 

Was the Twilight Forge short, too?

 

Did you actually play DDO?

Edited September 1, 2012 by Skoobie

[Soluss]

It's more likely that the group with the data sets are more accurate in their analysis than those that do not have the data sets, or are using compromised or non-realistic data sets.

 

The rest is just speculation and conjecture.

 

Yeah, because a company that wants to make it in the biz, is going to come right out and say...

 

The game failed and there are not enough subscribers. We are going F2P so that we can hope to salvage it. We hope players will come back and play. We understand you dont want to pay 15 bucks a month to play the game so please spend a few hundred bucks in our cash shop.

[jarjarloves]

A series of 6 quests ending with a raid is short?

 

Was the Twilight Forge short, too?

 

Did you actually play DDO?

since Beta. Which I would like to state both Twilight Forge and Dragon Vault where IN BETA.

 

But yes Dragon Vault was incredibly short. You could finish the entire run in the span of maybe 2 hours

[Gruug]

No Free 2 Play MMO is ever free. In fact they usually cost more than subscription MMOs. A business model will not necessarily save an insufficiently popular MMO and one that has been so completely broken as CoH. Some MMOs, DDO and LOTRO, do well with it, some like STO who took the P2win model of F2p are not so well off, but they're hanging on.

 

I think I will have to ask "what exactly are the revenues for LOTRO or DDO? The only thing I can find is a statement (rather generalised) made by spokespeople for LOTRO that CLAIMS that LOTRO has tripled revenue. However, that statement comes back in Janurary 2011....better they a year and a half ago. There have been no such claims (that I can find) that back up that claim nor that they are doing well today.

 

Also, I have to point out (again) that the number of people playing the game does NOT equate to revenue generated by the "free" game. I would also point to a trend that is finally starting to show up.....the "free to play" giants are losing money .... cough Zynga. And now Paragon Studios is being closed with there main "f2p" offering CoH. I think this is only the start as more people see that so-called "f2p" is NOT free and that the old saying "you get what you PAY for" begins to take hold again.

[Vandicus]

I think I will have to ask "what exactly are the revenues for LOTRO or DDO? The only thing I can find is a statement (rather generalised) made by spokespeople for LOTRO that CLAIMS that LOTRO has tripled revenue. However, that statement comes back in Janurary 2011....better they a year and a half ago. There have been no such claims (that I can find) that back up that claim nor that they are doing well today.

 

Also, I have to point out (again) that the number of people playing the game does NOT equate to revenue generated by the "free" game. I would also point to a trend that is finally starting to show up.....the "free to play" giants are losing money .... cough Zynga. And now Paragon Studios is being closed with there main "f2p" offering CoH. I think this is only the start as more people see that so-called "f2p" is NOT free and that the old saying "you get what you PAY for" begins to take hold again.

 

A. Blizzard/Activision has lost money during many quarters and during some years since WoW has launched. Should I take this to the same logical extreme that you do and claim that their subscription model is the reason for their losses?

B. CoH wass run by NCSoft. They close f2p MMOs and regularly release new ones, GW2 for example which just released. It doesn't tell you that they were losing money on their CoH.

 

To put it simply Subscription-server costs=profit of the game

Cash shop revenue-server cost=profit of the game

 

It is highly abnormal for a game to have server costs exceeding cash shop revenue or subscription fees, this would require probably a sub 10k population(depending on the model being used). Therefore we use the term profitable to describe these games. Losses come from company expenditures outside of server costs.

 

I don't know why you're questioning a statement by an official LOTRO representative regarding their revenues. Are you suggesting they're lying to their investor base?

[Skoobie]

since Beta. Which I would like to state both Twilight Forge and Dragon Vault where IN BETA.

 

But yes Dragon Vault was incredibly short. You could finish the entire run in the span of maybe 2 hours

 

First off, it's called the Vault of Night.

 

Secondly, the Titan raid was not in pre game beta.

 

Finally, It only took you 2 hours after you had done it several times......not when you first did it. And, to some, 2 hours isn't considered "short". Are there any flashpoints in this game that you can do under 2 hours?

 

But enough of that. You have no idea.....just like everyone else....how big or small the future "every six week" updates will be. So arguing about it is useless.

Edited September 2, 2012 by Skoobie

[jarjarloves]

I think I will have to ask "what exactly are the revenues for LOTRO or DDO? The only thing I can find is a statement (rather generalised) made by spokespeople for LOTRO that CLAIMS that LOTRO has tripled revenue. However, that statement comes back in Janurary 2011....better they a year and a half ago. There have been no such claims (that I can find) that back up that claim nor that they are doing well today.

 

Also, I have to point out (again) that the number of people playing the game does NOT equate to revenue generated by the "free" game. I would also point to a trend that is finally starting to show up.....the "free to play" giants are losing money .... cough Zynga. And now Paragon Studios is being closed with there main "f2p" offering CoH. I think this is only the start as more people see that so-called "f2p" is NOT free and that the old saying "you get what you PAY for" begins to take hold again.

 

i'd say it is doing well. It has a health population of subscribers and they are releasing their second paid expansion since going F2P.

[jarjarloves]

First off, it's called the Vault of Night.

 

Secondly, the Titan raid was not in pre game beta.

 

Finally, It only took you 2 hours after you had done it several times......not when you first did it. And, to some, 2 hours isn't considered "short". Are there any flashpoints in this game that you can do under 2 hours?

 

But enough of that. You have no idea.....just like everyone else....how big or small the future "every six week" updates will be. So arguing about it is useless.

 

oh yes it most cerenatly was. But it was only accessed by those of us who were "elder testers" ie those who were beta testing since the beginning.

[Vandicus]

 

But enough of that. You have no idea.....just like everyone else....how big or small the future "every six week" updates will be. So arguing about it is useless.

 

We've got a rough idea. We're probably either looking at ops/warzone/flashpoint repeat, or ops/warzone repeat. This is going on a number of separate dev posts at this point. We know they want a playable content release of some sort every 6 weeks, we don't know whether or not they include flashpoints in their 6 week release schedule.

[Skoobie]

We've got a rough idea. We're probably either looking at ops/warzone/flashpoint repeat, or ops/warzone repeat. This is going on a number of separate dev posts at this point. We know they want a playable content release of some sort every 6 weeks, we don't know whether or not they include flashpoints in their 6 week release schedule.

 

Or it could be "one warzone and 10 new hair styles!".

 

I would imagine that the future updates will also include updating the store.

 

We'll see once it happens. I do hope they plan on releasing enough content to tide everyone over until the next release.

Edited September 2, 2012 by Skoobie

[corlanicus]

http://www.swtor-life.com/video/the-future-of-swtor-jeff-hickman-interview/7112/

 

video interview

[Soluss]

since Beta. Which I would like to state both Twilight Forge and Dragon Vault where IN BETA.

 

But yes Dragon Vault was incredibly short. You could finish the entire run in the span of maybe 2 hours

 

What instance, in ToR, takes longer then 2 hours? I guess i dont understand what you mean by short.

[Soluss]

A. Blizzard/Activision has lost money during many quarters and during some years since WoW has launched. Should I take this to the same logical extreme that you do and claim that their subscription model is the reason for their losses?

B. CoH wass run by NCSoft. They close f2p MMOs and regularly release new ones, GW2 for example which just released. It doesn't tell you that they were losing money on their CoH.

 

To put it simply Subscription-server costs=profit of the game

Cash shop revenue-server cost=profit of the game

 

It is highly abnormal for a game to have server costs exceeding cash shop revenue or subscription fees, this would require probably a sub 10k population(depending on the model being used). Therefore we use the term profitable to describe these games. Losses come from company expenditures outside of server costs.

 

I don't know why you're questioning a statement by an official LOTRO representative regarding their revenues. Are you suggesting they're lying to their investor base?

 

What other MMOs has NCSoft shut down?

 

If your theory was correct then wouldnt it make more sense to shut down GW1 then GW2? I mean, people that generally played COH probably wouldnt have any interest in GW1.

 

The rest of your statement is completely false. While server costs are definately covered... everything else is not. You still have an assload of payroll to account for. Marketing to account for... etc... Subs and cash shops are not profit until it passes the point that it supercedes cost. There is a lot more then just server costs. For instance... BW stated they needed 500k subs to show a profit. Their words were... 500k subs is a profit but nothing to write home about.

Edited September 2, 2012 by Soluss

[Soluss]

Or it could be "one warzone and 10 new hair styles!".

 

I would imagine that the future updates will also include updating the store.

 

We'll see once it happens. I do hope they plan on releasing enough content to tide everyone over until the next release.

 

What they need to do is start releasing side attraction content that keeps people busy and entertained. The repeatable Ops/wazones etc are only good short term. It needs more mini games, customizable housing and such. Space will do wonders for this game. If anything was going to bring players back.... it would be full blown space that would rock the socks off of even SWG space expansion.

 

If they continue the Ops route then they need to increase the amount of ops per tier. There should be 4 to 5 raids per tier and there should be alot more variety in loot instead of just 1 set. Sets that have different bonuses. Weapons and armor that have different passive or clicky effects. Different groups of mods... etc. That would keep people striving and start getting people into a little difference in gearing so that not everyone is the same.

Edited September 2, 2012 by Soluss