The Code of the Grey Jedi

[BrianDavion]

If grey jedi had a code, would it go something like this?

 

There is forever conflict

Between peace and passion

 

All are ignorant of their opposite

For knowledge is strength

 

Knowledge is a conduit

For serenity and power

 

Serene power is the key

For victory over conflict

 

Only through harmony

There is peace

 

To protect harmony

The Force is your sword and shield.

 

There is no canon

there is only Mary sue

 

I am a special snoke flake

who can somehow call upon the neutral side of the force that doesn't exist

[BlueArab]

This is the actual grey code from what I've seen:

 

There is no Dark Side, nor a Light Side

There is Only the Force

I will do what I must to keep the balance

The balance is what keeps me together

There is no good without evil, but evil must not be allowed to flourish

There is passion, Yet peace

Serenity, Yet emotion

Chaos, yet order

I am the wielder of the flame, the protector of balance

I am the holder of the torch, lighting the way

I am the keeper of the flame, soldier of balance

I am a guardian of balance

I am a Gray Jedi

 

"I will do what I must to keep the balance"

What balance is there to keep when

"There is no Dark Side, nor a Light Side"

 

How can there not be a dark/light side of the force? That has to be one of the dumbest things I have ever heard. The Grey 'Jedi' should be saying that they are trying to find the balance between the two sides of the force, not that they don't exist.

[BrandonSM]

"I will do what I must to keep the balance"

What balance is there to keep when

"There is no Dark Side, nor a Light Side"

 

How can there not be a dark/light side of the force? That has to be one of the dumbest things I have ever heard. The Grey 'Jedi' should be saying that they are trying to find the balance between the two sides of the force, not that they don't exist.

 

Trying to find something that isnt there.

 

Canon doesnt need to make sense, its Canon. The World of SW and the EU must follow it.

[BlueArab]

Trying to find something that isnt there.

 

Canon doesnt need to make sense, its Canon. The World of SW and the EU must follow it.

 

Was that Grey Jedi code canon?

 

If so, the person who wrote it should be put down.

[BrandonSM]

Was that Grey Jedi code canon?

 

If so, the person who wrote it should be put down.

 

Its there is no neutral side of the Force. There is no point in any Star Wars book/game/etc that has shown this that is canon.

 

 

There can be characters created who want to try and find this neutral side, but they never find it.

 

Grey Jedi is really Jedi who really disagree with the Council. There may be Jedi/Force-Users who use Light-Side and Dark-Side. But there will never be an ability where it requires both DS and LS unless your the friggin Chosen One...

 

 

Drew Karpshyn completely ignored established Canon when he wrote Revan and that whole DS and LS flowing through him business.

 

Leland Chee and Lucas have stated LS is the Force and Dark-Side is a cancer. There is no in-between.

 

It blows my mind how Drew babied his Revan into making him seem like an all powerful god.

 

Because this is what should of happened if someone did what Revan did.

 

He should of been driven mentally insane. DS and LS aren't just Sides of the Force that have different abilites. They are ways of life, you have to have a non-emotional and peaceful mind. Open yourself to the Force by cleairng your mind.

 

While DS, mentally, you have to have extremely strong emotions, the opposite of the Light-Side.You have to have hatred, passion, etc.

 

So for what Revan did, he would have to have extremely strong emotions and pretty much close-no emotions at the same time in order to have the LS and DS flowing through him. Which is why, I think DK completely violated canon..

 

 

And I'm probably going to get flamed for trolling and bringing up Revan and saying things like Should of happened... but thats my two cents.

[BlueArab]

Its there is no neutral side of the Force. There is no point in any Star Wars book/game/etc that has shown this that is canon.

 

 

There can be characters created who want to try and find this neutral side, but they never find it.

 

Grey Jedi is really Jedi who really disagree with the Council. There may be Jedi/Force-Users who use Light-Side and Dark-Side. But there will never be an ability where it requires both DS and LS unless your the friggin Chosen One...

 

 

Drew Karpshyn completely ignored established Canon when he wrote Revan and that whole DS and LS flowing through him business.

 

Leland Chee and Lucas have stated LS is the Force and Dark-Side is a cancer. There is no in-between.

 

It blows my mind how Drew babied his Revan into making him seem like an all powerful god.

 

Because this is what should of happened if someone did what Revan did.

 

He should of been driven mentally insane. DS and LS aren't just Sides of the Force that have different abilites. They are ways of life, you have to have a non-emotional and peaceful mind. Open yourself to the Force by cleairng your mind.

 

While DS, mentally, you have to have extremely strong emotions, the opposite of the Light-Side.You have to have hatred, passion, etc.

 

So for what Revan did, he would have to have extremely strong emotions and pretty much close-no emotions at the same time in order to have the LS and DS flowing through him. Which is why, I think DK completely violated canon..

 

 

And I'm probably going to get flamed for trolling and bringing up Revan and saying things like Should of happened... but thats my two cents.

 

Yeah I get what you are on about now. I thought you were initially saying the 'Grey Code' on the first page was canon.

[Aurbere]

Its there is no neutral side of the Force. There is no point in any Star Wars book/game/etc that has shown this that is canon.

 

 

There can be characters created who want to try and find this neutral side, but they never find it.

 

Grey Jedi is really Jedi who really disagree with the Council. There may be Jedi/Force-Users who use Light-Side and Dark-Side. But there will never be an ability where it requires both DS and LS unless your the friggin Chosen One...

 

 

Drew Karpshyn completely ignored established Canon when he wrote Revan and that whole DS and LS flowing through him business.

 

Leland Chee and Lucas have stated LS is the Force and Dark-Side is a cancer. There is no in-between.

 

It blows my mind how Drew babied his Revan into making him seem like an all powerful god.

 

Because this is what should of happened if someone did what Revan did.

 

He should of been driven mentally insane. DS and LS aren't just Sides of the Force that have different abilites. They are ways of life, you have to have a non-emotional and peaceful mind. Open yourself to the Force by cleairng your mind.

 

While DS, mentally, you have to have extremely strong emotions, the opposite of the Light-Side.You have to have hatred, passion, etc.

 

So for what Revan did, he would have to have extremely strong emotions and pretty much close-no emotions at the same time in order to have the LS and DS flowing through him. Which is why, I think DK completely violated canon..

 

 

And I'm probably going to get flamed for trolling and bringing up Revan and saying things like Should of happened... but thats my two cents.

 

You are absolutely correct. The whole theme of Star Wars is good versus evil. The whole idea of a Grey Jedi breaks that theme. Basically telling you that you can be good and bad.

 

The fact that Revan "used" both sides should have killed him. The Light and Dark both affect your body and tax it physically and mentally. In order to use the Light Side you must be calm, at peace. To use the Dark Side, one must be bristling with emotion and filled with hatred. So tell me, how can you be at peace and be filled with hatred at the same time?

 

Don't feel bad about bringing up Revan. He's the "Grey Jedi" paragon. An idol for those who seek a grey side. One that must be torn down.

[Russkiier]

I think that the problem that some other posters are running into is that there is plenty of room for moral relativism in the Star Wars mythos, just not with force users. Proficiency in the force (light side) requires calmness and serenity, proficiency in the Dark Side requires passion and emotion. One cannot walk a line between them.

 

Revan was a Grey Jedi (meaning he disagreed with the council) when he took off for the mandalorian wars. He then fell, and became a dark jedi/sith (not sure what the canon differences are between them). Then he was redeemed and was a jedi again.

 

IMHO, his power did not come from being able to use both sides of the force (simultaneously), but rather, knowing the dangers of the dark side and understanding both sides (or the force and the dark side, if you want)

 

TLDR: Moral relativism exists in star wars, just not with the jedi/sith

[BrandonSM]

I think that the problem that some other posters are running into is that there is plenty of room for moral relativism in the Star Wars mythos, just not with force users. Proficiency in the force (light side) requires calmness and serenity, proficiency in the Dark Side requires passion and emotion. One cannot walk a line between them.

 

Revan was a Grey Jedi (meaning he disagreed with the council) when he took off for the mandalorian wars. He then fell, and became a dark jedi/sith (not sure what the canon differences are between them). Then he was redeemed and was a jedi again.

 

IMHO, his power did not come from being able to use both sides of the force (simultaneously), but rather, knowing the dangers of the dark side and understanding both sides (or the force and the dark side, if you want)

 

TLDR: Moral relativism exists in star wars, just not with the jedi/sith

 

Your correct, but I take it you havent read the Revan Novel.

 

In the Novel, DK describes a moment where Revan had both the LS and DS flowing through him at the same time.

 

Sure you can use DS and LS abilities. Hell, even Luke has some DS Abilities. But he nor anyone else besides Revan, used both the DS and the LS at the same time. Because its literally impossible according to established canon.

[Aurbere]

I think that the problem that some other posters are running into is that there is plenty of room for moral relativism in the Star Wars mythos, just not with force users. Proficiency in the force (light side) requires calmness and serenity, proficiency in the Dark Side requires passion and emotion. One cannot walk a line between them.

 

Revan was a Grey Jedi (meaning he disagreed with the council) when he took off for the mandalorian wars. He then fell, and became a dark jedi/sith (not sure what the canon differences are between them). Then he was redeemed and was a jedi again.

 

IMHO, his power did not come from being able to use both sides of the force (simultaneously), but rather, knowing the dangers of the dark side and understanding both sides (or the force and the dark side, if you want)

 

TLDR: Moral relativism exists in star wars, just not with the jedi/sith

 

You are correct in the fact that moral relativisim exists in Star Wars. But it can't apply to Jedi and Sith. Especially Jedi. Jedi can't walk in between because of the corrupting nature of the Dark Side. Most Jedi who try to adopt a less restrictive approach to their duties often find themselves falling to the Dark Side. One of the many reasons the Jedi Council didn't go to war against the Mandalorians is because the war could cause many Jedi to fall. And it did. Revan failed to understand this and fell into that trap.

[Aurbere]

Your correct, but I take it you havent read the Revan Novel.

 

In the Novel, DK describes a moment where Revan had both the LS and DS flowing through him at the same time.

 

Sure you can use DS and LS abilities. Hell, even Luke has some DS Abilities. But he nor anyone else besides Revan, used both the DS and the LS at the same time. Because its literally impossible according to established canon.

 

I really hope that novel gets retconned. Ignoring established canon is a one way trip to getting your work retconned. But I don't see it happening.

 

Plus he totally disregarded the Exiles powers. Even admitting in an email to Rayla that he didn't do much research on the Exile's powers.

[BrandonSM]

I really hope that novel gets retconned. Ignoring established canon is a one way trip to getting your work retconned. But I don't see it happening.

 

Plus he totally disregarded the Exiles powers. Even admitting in an email to Rayla that he didn't do much research on the Exile's powers.

 

Revan haters we may be.

 

 

But we got facts!

[Aurbere]

Revan haters we may be.

 

 

But we got facts!

 

I guess that separates us from the Revanites. We may not like him, but we can provide actual facts to back up our arguments.

 

Don't you just love knowing things?

[Invictos]

I think that the problem that some other posters are running into is that there is plenty of room for moral relativism in the Star Wars mythos, just not with force users. Proficiency in the force (light side) requires calmness and serenity, proficiency in the Dark Side requires passion and emotion. One cannot walk a line between them.

 

Good point. And that's probably part of the reason the game encourages people to apply moral relativism to the Sith; Bioware attaches Light Side/Dark Side labels to moral decisions, for all characters, whether they're force users or not.

 

The Dark Side of the force isn't a theoretical thing in the Star Wars universe. It's essentially dark magic; using it corrupts you, and therefore compromises your ability to channel the Light Side. That's why you can't use both. The idea that anyone can consciously balance the two is at best wishful thinking, and at worst suggestive of a megalomaniacal (and thus, Dark-Side-susceptible) personality.

 

The whole point of the Jedi code is to set out (albeit perhaps extreme) philosophical guidelines to keep Force users from falling to temptation. The whole point of the Sith code (as I understand it) is to refute the Jedi code; there really is no reason for Sith code, per se, as their code simply tells you to do whatever you want.

 

A Grey Jedi code would be self-contradictory, to the extent that so-called grey jedi are even possible. If the term refers simply to Jedi who don't follow the Council's commands to the letter (but still otherwise remain staunch light siders), then to create and apply a code to those jedi would be to deny them their individuality, the very thing that makes them "grey jedi" to begin with. You can't set up a code of conduct for mavericks because a maverick, by definition, doesn't accept collective standards of conduct.

 

If, on the other hand, your definition of grey jedi concerns jedi who mix the Dark Side with the Light, then there basically already is a code for them. It's the Sith code.

Edited September 3, 2012 by Invictos

[Russkiier]

You are correct in the fact that moral relativisim exists in Star Wars. But it can't apply to Jedi and Sith. Especially Jedi. Jedi can't walk in between because of the corrupting nature of the Dark Side. Most Jedi who try to adopt a less restrictive approach to their duties often find themselves falling to the Dark Side. One of the many reasons the Jedi Council didn't go to war against the Mandalorians is because the war could cause many Jedi to fall. And it did. Revan failed to understand this and fell into that trap.

 

Not trying to troll or flame, but merely continue the discussion.

 

I think revan's choice to go fight in the mandolorian wars was a better one than the council was making (ie, doing nothing). The mandolorians werent just beating the republic forces, they were massacring civilians in order to get the jedi to fight. The lack of response by the council was likely seen as a betrayal by many of the average people (see, atton rands dialogue with the exile, basically, "at least the sith are honest about why they are killing people")

[Aurbere]

Not trying to troll or flame, but merely continue the discussion.

 

I think revan's choice to go fight in the mandolorian wars was a better one than the council was making (ie, doing nothing). The mandolorians werent just beating the republic forces, they were massacring civilians in order to get the jedi to fight. The lack of response by the council was likely seen as a betrayal by many of the average people (see, atton rands dialogue with the exile, basically, "at least the sith are honest about why they are killing people")

 

The topic of the Council's decision is a very heated topic. I don't think anyone thinks the Council did the right thing. But I understand why they did it.

 

Any way. Revan kind of proved the Council right and fell into the trap of the Dark Side.

[Neverfar]

The topic of the Council's decision is a very heated topic. I don't think anyone thinks the Council did the right thing. But I understand why they did it.

 

Any way. Revan kind of proved the Council right and fell into the trap of the Dark Side.

 

I strongly agree here. Granted, in KOTOR the writers really set up, basically strawman us into hating the Council, especially in KOTOR 2 (I swear that game was desperately trying to muddy the waters), but the end result did show that Revan fell to the dark side.

 

It's worth thinking about: even Revan (who had so damn many fans these days and is considered to be super powerful and special and all that and surely he doesn't die in the foundry and everything goes according to his plans) fell to the dark side, yet so many "Grey Jedi" think they're happily immune to the dark side.

[Neverfar]

You are absolutely correct. The whole theme of Star Wars is good versus evil. The whole idea of a Grey Jedi breaks that theme. Basically telling you that you can be good and bad.

 

The fact that Revan "used" both sides should have killed him. The Light and Dark both affect your body and tax it physically and mentally. In order to use the Light Side you must be calm, at peace. To use the Dark Side, one must be bristling with emotion and filled with hatred. So tell me, how can you be at peace and be filled with hatred at the same time?

 

Don't feel bad about bringing up Revan. He's the "Grey Jedi" paragon. An idol for those who seek a grey side. One that must be torn down.

 

I couldn't agree more with this post. This is my thoughts on the matter encapsulated in so very few words, minus my "so sick of the Revanites and Grey fanboys" sentiments.

[Aurbere]

I strongly agree here. Granted, in KOTOR the writers really set up, basically strawman us into hating the Council, especially in KOTOR 2 (I swear that game was desperately trying to muddy the waters), but the end result did show that Revan fell to the dark side.

 

It's worth thinking about: even Revan (who had so damn many fans these days and is considered to be super powerful and special and all that and surely he doesn't die in the foundry and everything goes according to his plans) fell to the dark side, yet so many "Grey Jedi" think they're happily immune to the dark side.

 

I understand why the Council acted the way they did, but they looked at things the wrong way. And the KOTOR games didn't help their view much.

[Captain_Zone]

I strongly agree here. Granted, in KOTOR the writers really set up, basically strawman us into hating the Council, especially in KOTOR 2 (I swear that game was desperately trying to muddy the waters), but the end result did show that Revan fell to the dark side.

 

It's worth thinking about: even Revan (who had so damn many fans these days and is considered to be super powerful and special and all that and surely he doesn't die in the foundry and everything goes according to his plans) fell to the dark side, yet so many "Grey Jedi" think they're happily immune to the dark side.

 

The Jedi Council had been making questionable decisions since way before Revan disobeyed them and went to defend the Republic. That was just the most polarizing decision they had made at the time. Their duty was to defend the Republic. They disobeyed that because they saw a vision of what MIGHT happen as opposed to what WILL happen. Unfortunately, it wasn't until Luke's Jedi Order that the Order would have a new direction. Up until then, they believed themselves pretty much infallible, and it cost them over and over and over throughout the millenia. Every time they were hunted to the verge of extinction, then came right back and were making the exact same mistakes after a few decades of rebuilding.

 

This may sound strange, but I firmly believe that George Lucas wanting the Jedi Code revised was partially responsible. The Original Code wasn't nearly as restrictive, and nobody batted an eye at Jedi romances. Then they threw "There is NO" into each line, and George had his basis for the restrictive rules of the Prequel Order that were partially the cause of Anakin falling to the Dark Side.

[OldVengeance]

Truthfully I think the revised code might have made more sense after the New Sith Wars. It was by far the worst conflict with the Sith at the time and so becoming more strict with the Ruusan Reformation makes sense and fit in with how the EU included the PT version of the Jedi.

[Neverfar]

Truthfully I think the revised code might have made more sense after the New Sith Wars. It was by far the worst conflict with the Sith at the time and so becoming more strict with the Ruusan Reformation makes sense and fit in with how the EU included the PT version of the Jedi.

 

Even if I agree, be careful with the usage of the word "truthfully." Like "honestly", it's often used to attempt to transmute opinion into unchallengable fact by the less savory members of the internet community. I understand the rest of what you're trying to say, but words like that can polarize people who would otherwise have a chance of leaning to your way of thinking.

[OldVengeance]

All I'm saying is that it is true that I think that.

[HandofZod]

"We are that which stalks the Shadows of the night, and Blind the Sun of its Light..." -Ancient Grey Jedi Concept

This would be a good code

 

"The Nice and Naive die in the hands of their Friends. The Mean and Merciless Die by the hand of their Enemies. Only those truly betweeen the two will find the secrets to Immortality within themselves."

 

There is no ignorance, there is knowledge.

There is no fear, there is power.

I am the heart of the Force.

I am the revealing fire of light.

I am the mystery of darkness.

In balance with chaos and harmony.

Immortal in the Force.

 

 

besides arent we all here to have fun, why cant people just role play a gray jedi or there version of it let people do what they want its an interesting concept to say the least i think people just want something they can fuss at.

[HandofZod]

I couldn't agree more with this post. This is my thoughts on the matter encapsulated in so very few words, minus my "so sick of the Revanites and Grey fanboys" sentiments.

 

yeah but have you read any of the new books and lore the modern jedi led by luke skywalker use both sides of the force i consider my self a die hard starwars fan but you guys make me ashamed to call my self a starwars geek people can do what they want and if george lucas doesnt like it then he shouldnt have given us jar jar binks