Yeah, this game sure is losing people...

[CorellianWannabe]

You're welcome to your own opinions. I'll not derail this thread into a debate about other the strengths and weaknesses of other games. I doubt you played ME2 or ME3 though, or know anything about Retake ME3 or the endings besides what you copy/pasted from a skim the surface complaint. I can tell you however that the majority definitely do not share your beliefs about ME2 or ME3. Every person identifying themselves as part of Retake ME3 acclaimed the rest of ME3 as great(beautiful, amazing, and incredible in fact), bar the ending(which had been changed just prior to shipping according to development logs that were released, and can immediately be verified by listening to the dialogue, which is still sort've nonsensical with the extended cut since it was designed for a different ending) .

 

I played both-ME2 was a shooter with a weak plot (collect these people and help them with their daddy issues,then go kill an insignificant threat to the galaxy). ME3 was only amazing if you enjoyed plot rails (Kai Leng is on the roof of the flying car? Too bad my adept couldn't think to use any biotic powers to knock him off!) and overwrought melodrama. People die in war-very sad. Liara needed to get over the asari getting what they deserved. Why should I help the quarians after they were stupid enough to start a war with the geth anyway? Apparently the Prothean was interesting-don't know or care about DLC though.

 

 

So Bioware got mad about the leaked ending, wrote a pathetic starchild ending in its place, childishly defended it as art, then released a revamped starchild as DLC. Sorry, if it's not in the released game I can't be bothered to download it. Apparently they explained teleporting the crew onto the Normandy and how Joker was fleeing the space magic beam- I won't waste the bandwidth finding out.

[Nastynas]

I wouldnt be so sure, Ive been a member here since 2009, EGA since the 2nd day,

I had never even heard about guild wars 2 until early july and never played GW1. With no expectations going in, I have been more then impressed, it just feels like a 2012 MMO.

 

How did you manage this? Were you not very active on the forums?

 

There were people here who only posted to say how much better Guild Wars 2 would be than Star Wars: The Old Republic.

 

There were threads arguing mmorpg.com hype levels. It was ridiculous.

 

At times I felt like I was getting more information about Guild Wars 2 and RIFT here than I was SW:TOR.

[LordArtemis]

Opinions on the state of the game, reason for decline, etc vary person to person. It's interesting when those theories as to why this game has lost so many subs in such a short time are used to defend the idea that the the game is fine, launched in a great state and does not need the changes that detractors seem to be clamoring for.

 

It is actually almost EXACTLY the kind of argument postulated after the NGE was implemented in SWG. Could they have been correct at the time? Sure. Were they? Absolutely not.

 

There are still those that defend the changes, even going so far as to indicate the game had much more in subs than it actually did when it closed down.

 

But no one here, including me of course can actually predict the future. We could use the losses to shore up our arguments that changes have to be made, but there will always be excuses...which in fairness could turn out to be correct, though it seems unlikely to me anyway.

 

One thing is for sure. Many MANY games have limped along for many years with light subs and still survived, even to today. SWG would probably still be open if it wasn't for the decision not to renew the license, and it NEVER went F2P.

 

So we can't really predict this game's demise based on the losses if we wish to be fair. That doesn't mean I will stop promoting my ideas on what went wrong and how to fix it...but even I concede this could be a blip...very VERY unlikely IMO, but it is possible.

 

We will have to see.

Edited August 30, 2012 by LordArtemis

[Shuno]

I think SWTOR will be around a very long time personally, so much money was invested in the game it'll keep on running for eons

[Kophar]

So you're saying it will be... more popular than SWTOR?

 

Sigh... SWTOR atm have between 500k-1m

And by the end of year it will have more than 1.5m-2m, while GW2 will never get out from the 500k-1m active players.

Edited August 30, 2012 by Kophar

[Mechrophilia]

I've noticed that my server has had a markedly lighter fleet pop the last few days.

[DarthTHC]

Sigh... SWTOR atm have between 500k-1m

And by the end of year it will have more than 1.5m-2m, while GW2 will never get out from the 500k-1m active players.

 

No. SWTOR ATM has something less than that. That number was released when the 6-month subscriptions were still active. Those that have cancelled are not active now.

 

I would sure love to see how SWTOR will gain 1-1.5 million players in 4 months. Even giving it away as they plan to, they're not going to hit that. You'll know that by the fact that you won't have to queue to log into your server and watching this chart continue to dwindle the red line and increase the yellow and green ones.

[DarthTHC]

I think SWTOR will be around a very long time personally, so much money was invested in the game it'll keep on running for eons

 

Intelligent business managers (and EA suits know how to run businesses) understand that sunk costs are irrelevant and they need to decide point-forward. The amount of money invested into the game is irrelevant at this point. The only question is if they can profitably run it moving forward.

 

Obviously they thought they could not do that with the subscription model else they would not have invested in the F2P infrastructure.

 

We'll see if that gets them the profitability they need. I'm sure they can get there if they eliminate 100% of the development team and just go into maintenance mode for however long the rabid fanboys will pay the $15/month to honor their memory of BioWare's lost excellence and love of Star Wars.

Edited August 30, 2012 by DarthTHC

[Kophar]

No. SWTOR ATM has something less than that. That number was released when the 6-month subscriptions were still active. Those that have cancelled are not active now.

 

I would sure love to see how SWTOR will gain 1-1.5 million players in 4 months. Even giving it away as they plan to, they're not going to hit that. You'll know that by the fact that you won't have to queue to log into your server and watching this chart continue to dwindle the red line and increase the yellow and green ones.

 

Surelly u must have a wand to know that those numbers have dwindled. I also must say that i allready saw and chatted with plenty of new players around in SWTOR. So, perhaps some comes and some others go putting the numbers on the same setting? No? Do i care bout SWTOR numbers? Nope... Like i said before i like it and i will keep playing it, nothing better outthere, so stop trying.

 

Errr. you do know that subs will not have queues with F2P's right????

Edited August 30, 2012 by Kophar

[Urael]

Errr. you do know that subs will not have queues with F2P's right????

 

Actually ...

 

Subscription vs. Free Features:

 

Game Login :

Subscription members will always be in login queues ahead of free players.

[Kophar]

Actually ...

 

Subscription vs. Free Features:

 

Wich means that u wnt have queues, it will be the same as it is now, since u just pass front in line and enter, simple as that.

Meaning if i do have a queue its because there are other subs in front of me.

And btw when F2P comes up, those locked servers atm?! I bet that its where the F2P players will be lodged, i might be wrong tho... its irrelevant anyway.

And im tired of debating with SWTOR haters, bleh, ill just unscribe from the thread, you guys are not worth the trouble. Honestly BW should just kick u all from here. Ure just a waist of forum space, really.

Edited August 30, 2012 by Kophar

[Urael]

Wich means that u wnt have queues, it will be the same as it is now, since u just pass front in line and enter, simple as that.

 

Manage your expectations. The wording says that Subs may still be in queues but, if they are, will be in line ahead of Non-paying players. It does NOT say that you won't have to wait at all as you are implying. This needs to be stated so as not to lead others astray.

Edited August 30, 2012 by Urael

[DarthTHC]

Wich means that u wnt have queues, it will be the same as it is now, since u just pass front in line and enter, simple as that.

Meaning if i do have a queue its because there are other subs in front of me.

And btw when F2P comes up, those locked servers atm?! I bet that its where the F2P players will be lodged, i might be wrong tho... its irrelevant anyway.

And im tired of fighting with SWTOR haters, bleh, ill just unscribe from the thread, you guys are not worth the trouble. Honestly BW should just kick u all from here. Ure doing nothing here, really.

 

If the server (not the queue) is 100% full of players, whether they're free or subscribers, you will queue.

 

What EA says in the link you quoted is that subscribers are queued ahead of free players. They do NOT say that free players will be booted off of servers if subscribers are in a queue.

 

BIG difference.

 

If the server is 100% full of free players - not a subscriber to be seen - and then a subscriber queues, that subscriber gets to sit in the queue until one of the free players logs out.

 

You might find yourself less frustrated with arguing with others if you understood the facts before setting fingertips to keyboard. Just a thought.

Edited August 30, 2012 by DarthTHC

[Wayshuba]

Intelligent business managers (and EA suits know how to run businesses) understand that sunk costs are irrelevant and they need to decide point-forward. The amount of money invested into the game is irrelevant at this point. The only question is if they can profitably run it moving forward.

 

Obviously they thought they could not do that with the subscription model else they would not have invested in the F2P infrastructure.

 

We'll see if that gets them the profitability they need. I'm sure they can get there if they eliminate 100% of the development team and just go into maintenance mode for however long the rabid fanboys will pay the $15/month to honor their memory of BioWare's lost excellence and love of Star Wars.

 

Sunk costs are irrelevant? They are completely relevant from a return on capital standpoint. Investors don't sink $200 million into a company (or project) and consider the money a sunk cost - they want a return on that investment which means recovering those costs plus a profit on those costs. Everything is driven by IRR, and therefore those costs are completely relevant.

 

Secondly, those costs are still recorded against the investment over an expected time frame - usually three to five years. So, for sake of argument let's give them the benefit of the doubt and say that it was $150M invested written down over three years. That is $50 million a year that needs to be made just to cover the "sunk" costs and get back to 0. Then add on-going costs to that, then you may have a profit.

 

I sure wish I could tell my investors their money was "sunk" costs and all that mattered was going forward. Wish the GAAP would let me do that too.

[Vandicus]

Sunk costs are irrelevant? They are completely relevant from a return on capital standpoint. Investors don't sink $200 million into a company (or project) and consider the money a sunk cost - they want a return on that investment which means recovering those costs plus a profit on those costs. Everything is driven by IRR, and therefore those costs are completely relevant.

 

Secondly, those costs are still recorded against the investment over an expected time frame - usually three to five years. So, for sake of argument let's give them the benefit of the doubt and say that it was $150M invested written down over three years. That is $50 million a year that needs to be made just to cover the "sunk" costs and get back to 0. Then add on-going costs to that, then you may have a profit.

 

I sure wish I could tell my investors their money was "sunk" costs and all that mattered was going forward. Wish the GAAP would let me do that too.

 

Sunk costs are irrelevant in the context of a business staying open or continuing operation. Regardless of how much you've sunk into it as long as its making a profit(or even covering all of your variable costs) you stay in operation.

Edited August 30, 2012 by Vandicus

[Bellumpvp]

So, last night on the Republic fleet there were 217 people on and well over 100 on Coruscant. While questing on Taris there was close to 50. Yes, boring Taris. Fifty peeps.

 

Warzones were instant pops. No exaggerating. I'd click the little icon on my minimap, choose queue solo, and the WZ would pop the second I clicked the solo button. This is on Prophecy of the Five. And because a lot of you will say pics or didn't happen, I linked a screenshot to it. Check the number in the top left hand corner. It may not look that crowded but it was. It reminded me a lot of the old Ironforge days in classic WoW. (As a tragic consequence to my gawking, Kira and I were ran over by a speeder just as I was taking the pic.)

 

Haters will always hate, but I think the reports of SWTOR's demise were greatly exaggerated.

 

Same thing happening with Bergeron Colony. Roughly 2 weeks ago everything was great, wz ques were fast. Had about 80-100 peeps on the fleet throughout the entire day.

 

Now we are lucky to get in a Warzone every 10 minutes, and even luckier to face a different group of players.

 

The fleet now has 20-80 people on throughout the day.

 

Bioware is too slow on releasing content, and the content they have is still buggy and lack luster.

[Bellumpvp]

Out of curiosity, what does this even mean? It's like you're doing time or something. If you don't like the game, just go? Or are you trying to get your money's worth by doing something you don't enjoy?

 

40$ I spent on 3 months that Id like to finish.

 

But really Im hoping that in 49 days this game addresses the issues I gripe about.

 

 

You can stand tall on your throne about how you will never stop playing TOR, but if Bioware doesn't fix the issues that made 1million subscribers leave. The bleeding will only continue and you will be playing alone.

[Vandicus]

40$ I spent on 3 months that Id like to finish.

 

But really Im hoping that in 49 days this game addresses the issues I gripe about.

 

 

You can stand tall on your throne about how you will never stop playing TOR, but if Bioware doesn't fix the issues that made 1million subscribers leave. The bleeding will only continue and you will be playing alone.

 

Your statement still makes no sense. If you spent 40$ on a fish and found out you were allergic to fish would you force yourself to eat the fish? You clearly stated that you wish you had 1 day remaining on your account rather than 49. Why force yourself to play or whatever you're doing that makes you wish you had less time on your account?

[Bellumpvp]

Your statement still makes no sense. If you spent 40$ on a fish and found out you were allergic to fish would you force yourself to eat the fish? You clearly stated that you wish you had 1 day remaining on your account rather than 49. Why force yourself to play or whatever you're doing that makes you wish you had less time on your account?

 

Idk when you first get the fish its really good and yummy. Yet after months of eating the fish you realize its really not all it was hyped up to be.

 

Yet now I have all this fish left over and dont want to see it go to waste.

[Kubernetic]

It seems highly unlikely that a million players shelled out $60 or more for a game they knew they could only play for 1 month (which is what your assumption that they never planned to subscribe means). That's just crazy thinking, really.

 

I saw people come into a retail establishment day in and day out to purchase $60 games that had they had beaten by the very next day. Then they'd come in and buy another $60 game to play.

 

I really didn't understand it either when I saw the practice staring me in the face... but it does exist.

[Tim-ONeil]

The biggest problem was server population from launch until now. Everything spiraled off this. People will leave any and all games, perception of their loss by the paying customers is key in minimizing lemmings unsubs.

 

They had over managed launch and set their hardware capacity much lower than it should have been prompting them to open a ridiculously unsustainable number of servers. Once the initial people that actually couldn't afford a monthly fee or didn't want to leave their current MMO or just plain hated the game and unsubbed it got much worse.

 

Waiting until late June to merge was the absolute worst business decision Bioware/EA could have made. They lost people who logged on, saw that sub 50 people were online on the fleet, cancelled, and never looked back post March when things really started to decline.

 

For some reason they were hoping that 1.1/1.2 would magically solve all the problems and bring people back. The reality of it is no single patch in any game can do that. Isolate your still sizable playerbase from each other and you cause anxiety, negative attitudes on the health of the game, and ultimately additional player loss.

 

In the future MMO games will look at the TOR launch not as the huge success they initially thought it was but a prelude to failure. I love this game but fracturing your gaming core population then taking 7 months to fix it was a terrible decision and cost them everything.

[Kubernetic]

The biggest problem was server population from launch until now. Everything spiraled off this. People will leave any and all games, perception of their loss by the paying customers is key in minimizing lemmings unsubs.

 

They had over managed launch and set their hardware capacity much lower than it should have been prompting them to open a ridiculously unsustainable number of servers. Once the initial people that actually couldn't afford a monthly fee or didn't want to leave their current MMO or just plain hated the game and unsubbed it got much worse.

 

Waiting until late June to merge was the absolute worst business decision Bioware/EA could have made. They lost people who logged on, saw that sub 50 people were online on the fleet, cancelled, and never looked back post March when things really started to decline.

 

For some reason they were hoping that 1.1/1.2 would magically solve all the problems and bring people back. The reality of it is no single patch in any game can do that. Isolate your still sizable playerbase from each other and you cause anxiety, negative attitudes on the health of the game, and ultimately additional player loss.

 

In the future MMO games will look at the TOR launch not as the huge success they initially thought it was but a prelude to failure. I love this game but fracturing your gaming core population then taking 7 months to fix it was a terrible decision and cost them everything.

 

It's a shame if so many players are becoming such fragile snowflakes that they'd choose the option to leave rather than fixing the situation, but this has been legislated over and over again on these forums ad infinitum.

 

I just transferred to a more populated server back in March, and continued having a wonderful time with the game. Too bad more didn't choose the same alternative...

[Scritchy]

The funny thing here is that peeps complain about lack of PvE content in SWTOR and than pick up games that has non existent or rubbish PvE content with nonsense PvE lore. With absolutelly no challenge whatsoever difficulty in their PvE dungeons or raids. Its amazing.

This is (a part of) the near incoherent rambling of somebody who hasn't played the game they are ranting about.

 

Anecdotal sweeping generalization/stereotype. I'm not even touching this one. The graphics are amazing in GW2. If you can't recognize that you are either a swtor fanboi or an employee of EA/BW.

In game screenshots of some of the landscapes: http://imgur.com/a/znjSr#0

Edited August 31, 2012 by Scritchy

[Tim-ONeil]

It's a shame if so many players are becoming such fragile snowflakes that they'd choose the option to leave rather than fixing the situation, but this has been legislated over and over again on these forums ad infinitum.

 

I just transferred to a more populated server back in March, and continued having a wonderful time with the game. Too bad more didn't choose the same alternative...

 

I somewhat agree with you. I've played on 3 different servers to stabilize myself until transfers. I would say we are in the very low minority though. I totally understand having one toon and putting your heart and soul into it. Starting over is hard and for some people impossible. The point is that this type of merging needed to happen on a smaller scale in March then continue as needed. It would have stopped the bleeding.

[Blackardin]

Your statement still makes no sense. If you spent 40$ on a fish and found out you were allergic to fish would you force yourself to eat the fish?

 

Honestly, I believe some of these people would eat it just to have something to complain about. LOL

 

I still enjoy the game. When I stop enjoying it, I'll stop playing. I'll sacrifice the 50 cents a day. ;p