Why fire the game's builders?

[Beamerina]

Granted I don't know who was affected specifically and perhaps some of the game's creative core are still in place, but I wonder, in a game like swtor with its much touted content updates, isn't the game in a constant state of development rather than simply being "maintained" and wouldn't you want the people who had the vision/skill to make the (imo) great game we're playing today to continue that and make updates of a similar quality, especially in regards to carrying on the story? Personally, I feel like the content in the game is well done...don't you want the people who made it...making more of it?

 

I guess time will tell how this will work out, and one can only hope the previous development team and writers at least laid down the story for the future (not that it matters should Bioware choose to neglect story content completely for free updates in favor of a stream of standard MMO content).

[jarjarloves]

Granted I don't know who was affected specifically and perhaps some of the game's creative core are still in place, but I wonder, in a game like swtor with its much touted content updates, isn't the game in a constant state of development rather than simply being "maintained" and wouldn't you want the people who had the vision/skill to make the (imo) great game we're playing today to continue that and make updates of a similar quality, especially in regards to carrying on the story? Personally, I feel like the content in the game is well done...don't you want the people who made it...making more of it?

 

I guess time will tell how this will work out, and one can only hope the previous development team and writers at least laid down the story for the future (not that it matters should Bioware choose to neglect story content completely for free updates in favor of a stream of standard MMO content).

 

because you don't need the same developers who built the game to maintain it. For example you don't need the guys who came up with the combat system or combat abiliteis to still be there. You also don't need a lot of the artists who did the concept art. There is also a BIG difference between making content for a game not released and making new content on a monthly basis.

 

Every game does this. Even WoW

[Kubernetic]

Granted I don't know who was affected specifically and perhaps some of the game's creative core are still in place, but I wonder, in a game like swtor with its much touted content updates, isn't the game in a constant state of development rather than simply being "maintained" and wouldn't you want the people who had the vision/skill to make the (imo) great game we're playing today to continue that and make updates of a similar quality, especially in regards to carrying on the story? Personally, I feel like the content in the game is well done...don't you want the people who made it...making more of it?

 

I guess time will tell how this will work out, and one can only hope the previous development team and writers at least laid down the story for the future (not that it matters should Bioware choose to neglect story content completely for free updates in favor of a stream of standard MMO content).

 

While the game is still being "developed", it has undoubtedly moved from a "core construction" phase to a "build-out" phase. The latter does not require the horsepower of the former, in the same manner that it takes a lot more people to construct a house than it does to maintain that house and add upgrades later.

 

Additionally, when the first 4-6 months of your game is set with bugs and things needing to be fixed, it makes sense that at some point you'd make a great load of progress in fixing those bugs and blemishes, and no longer need that set of personnel going forward.

 

The question is whether they fired CONTENT DEVELOPERS, and that is unknown to us without employee rosters and comparative lists of those that were laid off.

 

Long story short... you fire the builders because you're done building the initial game structure, and don't need a crew of people around to build another game when you've already just built one.

[Soluss]

because you don't need the same developers who built the game to maintain it. For example you don't need the guys who came up with the combat system or combat abiliteis to still be there. You also don't need a lot of the artists who did the concept art. There is also a BIG difference between making content for a game not released and making new content on a monthly basis.

 

Every game does this. Even WoW

 

That would be viable reasoning if the developers of the game didnt gloat about keeping their staff. They expected to keep their huge team. It was downsized because they lost too many subs. Spin it how you want but thats the truth. You dont let go heads of departments if you are doing well.

[christhesithlord]

I think it was low priority people fired, I don't think devs got many layoffs.

[spellegren]

Because they were unable to maintain a steady paying customer base, it's that simple.

[ebado]

There's a certain amount of turnover expected in general. GIven the financial situation, there's more added on to that. In general, it's a slightly different skill set. People like systems designers and network guys take a higher priority now.

 

Combination of both. Just the reality of it.

[jarjarloves]

That would be viable reasoning if the developers of the game didnt gloat about keeping their staff. They expected to keep their huge team. It was downsized because they lost too many subs. Spin it how you want but thats the truth. You dont let go heads of departments if you are doing well.

 

You just proved my point.

 

After launch they made a big deal about how the game was so succesful that they WERE able to keep their entire team. But then they lost a lot of subs so they had to lay off staff and go back to the original plan

[Helistin]

You just proved my point.

 

After launch they made a big deal about how the game was so succesful that they WERE able to keep their entire team. But then they lost a lot of subs so they had to lay off staff and go back to the original plan

 

So the original plan was to lose 75% of their subs in 8 months? Makes perfect sense...

[jarjarloves]

So the original plan was to lose 75% of their subs in 8 months? Makes perfect sense...

 

that went right over your head didn't it.

 

No the original plan like EVERY MMO EVER RELEASED INCLUDING WoW

 

Was to let the unneeded staff go right after launch. But since they had a HUGE launch with more players then expected they foolishly thought that it would stay at 2 milliion plus and so they kept their staff.

 

 

then when subs dropped they had to go to the original plan and let them go. It would have been much smarter to let them go at the begining then it wouldnt have looked so bad

Edited August 25, 2012 by jarjarloves

[Cavell]

I think it was low priority people fired, I don't think devs got many layoffs.

Well, it was the lead developer, project manager, the head of the division...

 

EA cleaned house. Make no mistake about it. Departures were spaced out and given fig leaf "on to other things" stories so it didn't look like a decimation, but none of the top guys, to my knowledge, are still on the team.

[jarjarloves]

Well, it was the lead developer, project manager, the head of the division...

 

EA cleaned house. Make no mistake about it. Departures were spaced out and given fig leaf "on to other things" stories so it didn't look like a decimation, but none of the top guys, to my knowledge, are still on the team.

 

... umm Daniel Erickson and James Olen are still around.

 

the one guy whos name I can't remember I think he was the producer or something he wasn't fire he actually left on his own to move back to sinapore with is wife or something.

[RazielHex]

You just proved my point.

 

After launch they made a big deal about how the game was so succesful that they WERE able to keep their entire team. But then they lost a lot of subs so they had to lay off staff and go back to the original plan

 

The "Staff" were contractors and sub-contractors.

[Andryah]

 

the one guy whos name I can't remember I think he was the producer or something he wasn't fire he actually left on his own to move back to sinapore with is wife or something.

 

George Zoeller, and he in fact (according to linkedin) had a new employer in Singapore within two weeks of his announced departure. So yeah, that reads very much like a move on his part, not on the companies part.

[bahdasz]

You got your programmers that are great creative guys for massive projects.... innovators, trend-setters, mold breakers if you will. And then you got those guys that got their degrees at community college, they can keep the stuff that's made working, but they ain't so good at makin' stuff themselves. You build it, pass it on to the other other guys and then the company shifts you to another game to start from scratch with your next masterpiece that eventually someone else will take care of when you move on again... that's why the creative team moved on and left a different crew behind.

 

It's like cars... The guys that design them don't build them and the guys that built them don't fix them. It's the same principal.

 

Plus, the guys that design the games from scratch cost a lot more than the community college guys, so it's just economically more sensible to move those guys from game to game when they finish a project.

Edited August 26, 2012 by bahdasz

[FourTwent]

because you don't need the same developers who built the game to maintain it. For example you don't need the guys who came up with the combat system or combat abiliteis to still be there. You also don't need a lot of the artists who did the concept art. There is also a BIG difference between making content for a game not released and making new content on a monthly basis.

 

Every game does this. Even WoW

 

but you NEED these guys to create new mechanics and other things in the game that aren't already created.

 

do you think we'll ever see things like swoop racing, pazaak, guild ship, or anything that isn't specifically dialog ---> quest ---> reward in this game anytime soon?

 

forget the secret space project. we'll be lucky to get more class story

[jarjarloves]

but you NEED these guys to create new mechanics and other things in the game that aren't already created.

 

do you think we'll ever see things like swoop racing, pazaak, guild ship, or anything that isn't specifically dialog ---> quest ---> reward in this game anytime soon?

 

forget the secret space project. we'll be lucky to get more class story

 

... no you don't NEED those guys. You assume they are the only ones who can make that. What are you going to do keep them payed while they sit around doing nothing?

 

You would be silly to think they abbandond the secret space project.

Edited August 26, 2012 by jarjarloves

[Encima]

If you played the game since launch, you wouldn't be asking this question. Unless you just recently started doing level 50 stuff. I've never seen so much rapid fail, I'm amazed they've stuck with the gear system currently in place for this long and I'm satisfied with it, but the utter chaos and lack of direction demonstrated in the first months of the game was mind blowing.

[FourTwent]

... no you don't NEED those guys. You assume they are the only ones who can make that. What are you going to do keep them payed while they sit around doing nothing?

 

You would be silly to think they abbandond the secret space project.

 

you need them IF you want new mechanics like that. they weren't sitting around doing nothing after launch. they were working on live/world event mechanics, the secret space project, and probably even an animation to climb onto an animal mount(for the ride-able tauntan).

 

Without the guys that they fired, it will take YEARS before we see new mechanics like these. Even then, they'll have to hire outside help.

Edited August 26, 2012 by FourTwent

[jarjarloves]

you need them IF you want new mechanics like that. they weren't sitting around doing nothing after launch. they were working on live/world event mechanics, the secret space project, and probably even an animation to climb onto an animal mount(for the ride-able tauntan).

 

Without the guys that they fired, it will take YEARS before we see new mechanics like these. Even then, they'll have to hire outside help.

 

really where they? Show me how you know that the guys who got fired where the ones doing the space project, new world mechanics and so on.

 

also please explain how WoW was able to add new things when they fired a significant part of their staff after launch.

Edited August 26, 2012 by jarjarloves

[FourTwent]

really where they? Show me how you know that the guys who got fired where the ones doing the space project, new world mechanics and so on.

 

also please explain how WoW was able to add new things when they fired a significant part of their staff after launch.

 

lol it's call outsourcing. spending money upfront to pay outside developers to complete a project. you know, money. . .something Blizzard has earned from 9+ million subs. . .something that Bioware Austin doesn't have.

 

blizzard fired people after launch because they lost subs after the initial rush. i bet you didn't see any new mechanics until after they started gaining subs again and until after they thought it was profitable enough to come out with an expansion

 

believe what you want man, I have no need to continue with this little debate. I actually hope you're counting the days until you get some new mechanics in the game hah!

[LordArtemis]

This is a common occurrence. I don't think they expected to lose as many subs as they did, even though Beta testers told them exactly what would happen after launch. Some testers even got the time frame right. It's a shame they had to lose their jobs. I am of the belief that, had they listened to us in Beta, it would have never happened.